PDA

View Full Version : H&S, good, bad? Report or not?


Pontius Navigator
26th Apr 2018, 07:15
I know many of us see H&S as a PITA and grudgingly accept its structures in time.

Well the other day at the Community Tip I saw a worker throwing 3 foot metal poles and even a fence ground spike into the skip. The top of the skip was about 12 feet up, he was boosting the stuff almost straight up. Had one of these clipped the edge it could have bounced back.

A member of the public was below, the line of cars no more than 10 feet away and the operator was not wearing a hard hat or gloves.

Report or not?

pilotmike
26th Apr 2018, 07:21
Belt and braces - report it twice!

Pontius Navigator
26th Apr 2018, 07:30
TY, I did, at first to the District Council who, rather than take action, told me to contact County. Now my understanding is that an agency to whom such a problem is reported accept the risk/blame for their action or inaction.

I think they should have passed it on themselves.

Blues&twos
26th Apr 2018, 10:12
The two occasions I have reported stuff to the HSE directly (both involving flagrant breaches of electrical safety in public access areas), I have received quick and very good responses.
Whilst the local authority responsible for the tip should investigate and rectify, they won't be independent and may well end up covering their own arses, so to speak.

Smeagol
26th Apr 2018, 11:03
I would have asked to see the site supervisor, told him what you had seen and instructed him to take action. Advise him that any second violation of safety and good practice would be reported further up the chain of command.
Give the local supervision a chance to sort things out first.

pilotmike
26th Apr 2018, 12:43
I meant report it twice, in 2 separate but identical threads in PPRuNe!:ok:

charliegolf
26th Apr 2018, 13:19
Our local tip is contracted out to a private mob. Same workers, so easy to not notice. Perhaps chaeck that PN (if you haven't), and go direct to them. They might not want a corporate fine/prosecution.

CG

Pontius Navigator
26th Apr 2018, 15:24
I would have asked to see the site supervisor, told him what you had seen and instructed him to take action. Advise him that any second violation of safety and good practice would be reported further up the chain of command.
Give the local supervision a chance to sort things out first.
And CG,

The tip is the responsibility of the C C who contract to Biffa. The site was so busy and I was pressed for time that seeking the supervisor would have been difficult. More importantly we want to continue using that too :) Immediate action might also have resulted in disciplinary action when a specific complaint and a follow up brief would be less brutal.

The CC has already contacted the site and taken appropriate action.

VP959
26th Apr 2018, 15:56
There's also the slight issue that by stirring things up you may find yourself subject to the attentions of the "awkward squad" at the site.

I made several trips to our local recycling centre when clearing our old house out, each time in an ordinary car, no trailer and not a van. After about the third or fourth trip in as many days, I was banned. Apparently they have number plate recognition cameras on the way in/out to the site, and my frequent visits had me flagged as a "trade user". No amount of protestation would get them to see sense, so I remain banned to this day. As it happens, there is another recycling centre that's not much further away, but it's in Dorset, so technically I shouldn't use it, as I don't pay Council Tax to Dorset Council. However, they don't seem bothered, so I'll carry on using it.

I wonder how many people who have just been arbitrarily banned like this either just fly tip or get someone in to clear their rubbish that may well then just go and fly tip? Fly tipping seems to have increased a lot around here in the past couple of years, and somehow I suspect it may be connected with the increasing restrictions at the local recycling centres.

Pontius Navigator
26th Apr 2018, 18:30
VP, quite. Our tiles uses the tip near us, the tip near his home, the tip in the next county. His diesel is cheaper that a skip and a skip would be very awkward here. Our local tip has CCTV I just learnt but not APNR. Rutland has APNR but my daughter has registered us there too.

Cpt_Pugwash
26th Apr 2018, 18:33
VP, that was probably when it was run by Hills, they've lost the Wiltshire contract now.
I had a run in with them at Warminster a few years ago. Pitched up with a few black bin bags of plastic bottles. Took first one to skip, lifted lid and emptied black bag into it. Spotty oik comes running over, yelling " You can't do that!". Apparently lifting the lid was verboten, each bottle had to be posted through the slot individually.
The Trowbridge site had a much more flexible policy on future trips.

treadigraph
26th Apr 2018, 18:54
My local site is just a few hundred yards down the road, so I take most stuff up by wheel barrow. Few years ago a big officious looking site worker I'd never seen before strode up to me and snarled "you can't bring that in 'ere!" Me: "Why not?" Him: "Elf and safety regulations, innit?" Me: "See that bloke over there with the beard, that's your boss isn't it?" Him: "Yeah, so?" Me: "So, if bringing a wheel barrow in here is against H&S regs, how come he helped me unload the last barrowful half an hour ago? Shall we go and talk to him?" Him: squirm, rapid exit. Never saw him on the site again, the rest of the staff are great, same at two other sites I've had to use in Surrey and Sussex in the last few years.

Blues&twos
26th Apr 2018, 21:49
Treadigraph - I used to be "on the bins" for a district council in Sussex back in the late 1980s. There was a bloke who operated the weighbridge at the county council run commercial landfill site where we emptied all our dustcarts. He was the single most unpleasant person I have ever had the displeasure of meeting.
Must be something about tips.

ShyTorque
26th Apr 2018, 22:02
The workers at our local "amenity" recycling centre are only interested in looking for anything they can sell. We went through a period when our street collection kept getting missed. Coupled with the fortnightly collection, rather than the "old fashioned" weekly we used to get, the bin was completely overflowing and stuff was really beginning to stink so we eventually felt obliged to try to dispose of it ourselves. As I unloaded the car, I was immediately asked "Any DVDs in there, mate?"

There weren't but they still went through it anyway.

G-CPTN
26th Apr 2018, 22:55
Our local amenity centre now charges 2 per bag for residents disposing of rubble, plasterboard, ceramic bathroom and kitchen fittings, tiles and slates, laminate flooring, and garden sheds.and soil.
There is an annual limit of DIY waste from a household of 6 cubic yards - this equates to 150 builders sand bags or equivalent.
You must not empty your vehicle until payment has been made.
Only credit or debit card payments will be accepted – no cash or cheques - and you must provide photographic proof of ID linking you to the address e.g. driving licence or passport and utility bill.
.

flash8
27th Apr 2018, 00:19
Well saw a youtube video (one of the BBC Britain on Film series) on life in the 60's in the UK....

The way the guys were hanging off buildings... tools in hand... (if dropped could kill someone), no safety harness.... in fact no safety at all... genuinely surprised that most weren't killed at some stage it looked that bad. It seemed to me H&S didn't exist in the 60's..

Didn't know there also was a country-wide "Weights and Measures" office that had chaps scooting off in cars spending the day weighting various items... I guess all sorts of departments have been cut/assimilated over the years.

G-CPTN
27th Apr 2018, 08:19
Didn't know there also was a country-wide "Weights and Measures" office that had chaps scooting off in cars spending the day weighting various items... I guess all sorts of departments have been cut/assimilated over the years.
Yes, there was a Weights and Measures office in our nearby town that also dealt with Trading Standards - gone now.

Pontius Navigator
27th Apr 2018, 08:28
Yes, there was a Weights and Measures office in our nearby town that also dealt with Trading Standards - gone now.
They even used to draw off fuel at filling stations to check volumes. Saw at a Sainsbury that they displayed a certificate from a registered tester rather than W&M.

As for charging per load, I guess you don't have a fly tipping problem :)

Next to our tip is a travellers camp - symbiotic!

Apparently local councils are worried about the new plastics initiatives as it will cost them money.

jimtherev
27th Apr 2018, 09:47
Have to register a vote *for* our local 'tip'. 'twas good right from the start, but one day I'd been doing some pastoral stuff and forgot I was still wearing the dog collar. From that day on, friendly insults whenever I show up (not often) along the lines of 'let's shock Jim'. All good fun, but they don't let me lift a finger. Almost form a queue to unload the car.
And they are contractors, too, not local authority bods.
Great.

happybiker
27th Apr 2018, 10:07
Our local amenity centre now charges 2 per bag for residents disposing of rubble, plasterboard, ceramic bathroom and kitchen fittings, tiles and slates, laminate flooring, and garden sheds.and soil.

Mid Sussex council also introduced such charges recently. Before the introduction of charges they contacted residents who are registered for consultations about the changes. My comments and many others pointed out that this was a mistake as it would increase fly tipping and administration time to collect the fee; however, despite the comments the Council went ahead anyway. Not long after the introduction of the charges the policy was suspended following a statement by the Government about such charges. Let us hope that they are not reinstated at some later date. https://tinyurl.com/y9eqwcx6

Grayfly
27th Apr 2018, 12:21
The way the guys were hanging off buildings... tools in hand... (if dropped could kill someone), no safety harness.... in fact no safety at all... genuinely surprised that most weren't killed at some stage it looked that bad. It seemed to me H&S didn't exist in the 60's...

I started my construction career in the late 60's in an engineering consultancy. We regularly visited sites and walked around in our suits, normal shoes etc. Nobody had even heard of PPE in those days. The only consideration I ever heard was from an architect friend who requested duckboards on the site when it was raining so he wouldn't get his suede shoes dirty.

Pontius Navigator
28th Apr 2018, 08:47
Have you seen scaffolding in India? Wood, not planks even but just thin tree trunks.

VP959
28th Apr 2018, 09:33
Bamboo is commonly used in the Far East, just lashed together. Seems to work OK:

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/0a/70/33/bamboo-scaffolding-doesn.jpg

ExSp33db1rd
28th Apr 2018, 10:19
Our local council closed the free re-cycling centre in the town .... and now complain that they have to spend megabucks clearing up lakes and streams and forest glades. I wonder why ? Clean, Green, New Zealand ? Forget it.

Pontius Navigator
28th Apr 2018, 10:32
Taken as a whole, I wonder which is more environmentally friendly, a regular curb side collection or a community tip?

In the forner, at no personal cost, I put all my rubbish out. The council then employs more men, more vehicles, and more diesel at an increased cost. This is recovered through recycling and local taxes - all householders pay.

In the latter, assuming I have a car or trailer that can haul the trash, I separate it, drive it to the tip and pay my own fuel and running costs. The council, or its contractors, employ a team at the tip to control and sort the waste. The cost is spread between users and local taxes at a lower rate.

The latter is more equitable to non-users.

However which is greener? Lots of cars or more council mileage?

G-CPTN
28th Apr 2018, 11:20
In the latter, assuming I have a car or trailer that can haul the trash, I separate it, drive it to the tip and pay my own fuel and running costs. The council, or its contractors, employ a team at the tip to control and sort the waste.

Our local recycling centre will only permit 12 visits per year if you decide to use a trailer - and will charge you if the content is not household garbage.

radeng
28th Apr 2018, 12:09
G-CPTN,
What about stuff under the WEEE Directive? I believe the Directive says that disposal is free - and certainly for hazardous WEEE material, which can include radioactive stuff, mercury, cadmium, lead and some other nasties. I know that the other year, one council had some radioactive material to dispose of under WEEE and weren't able to charge.

G-CPTN
28th Apr 2018, 14:18
Having spent quite some time searching the site for appropriate information, the following is the only relevant information that I can find:-
You can donate furniture and electrical items to local schemes or charities.
The following waste types cannot be collected by the hazardous waste collection service. • Explosives • Nerve gases • Radioactive waste • Clinical waste • Flammable film-stock (cellulose acetate).

VP959
28th Apr 2018, 15:17
When I cleared our old house out, we managed to get a lot of reasonably decent, but second hand, furniture collected by a couple of local charities. We also had a brand new and unused, boxed, food blender, that had been won in a raffle a few months earlier and which we had no use for. None of the charities would accept it. Apparently many now have concerns about liability with anything electrical. I ended up putting it on Freecycle, so it went to a good home. Freecycle is a pretty good way to get rid of stuff, as it's surprising what some that use it will take, even things that look like they should be scrapped seem to have a value to someone.

Pontius Navigator
28th Apr 2018, 15:49
G CPTN - when my wife retired we kept a sharps bin. After a hospital operation I collected two more. The hospital said the council would collect, they did for free.

VP959 - if the charity has a PAT tester available they should take electrical stuff. Ours did and even broken stuff as they recovered bits. OTOH Banardos, our new local charity would not accept quilts

VP959
28th Apr 2018, 16:12
VP959 - if the charity has a PAT tester available they should take electrical stuff. Ours did and even broken stuff as they recovered bits. OTOH Banardos, our new local charity would not accept quilts

That's what I thought, and even though the blender was new, boxed, and less than a year old (so still under warranty from AEG), I was quite happy to have it PAT tested and a sticker put on it for them, but they were adamant that their policy was not to accept any electrical items. Personally, I think it was probably just a bit of health and safety gone mad, where someone within the charity had been poorly advised.

Sallyann1234
28th Apr 2018, 16:16
When I cleared our old house out, we managed to get a lot of reasonably decent, but second hand, furniture collected by a couple of local charities. We also had a brand new and unused, boxed, food blender, that had been won in a raffle a few months earlier and which we had no use for. None of the charities would accept it. Apparently many now have concerns about liability with anything electrical. I ended up putting it on Freecycle, so it went to a good home. Freecycle is a pretty good way to get rid of stuff, as it's surprising what some that use it will take, even things that look like they should be scrapped seem to have a value to someone.
I disposed of several items on Freecycle, prior to a house move. Then a friend pointed out that they were being advertised for sale on a local Facebook page.

VP959
28th Apr 2018, 16:33
I disposed of several items on Freecycle, prior to a house move. Then a friend pointed out that they were being advertised for sale on a local Facebook page.

Nice to see that the spirit of the entrepreneur is alive and well!

If any stuff we got rid of through Freecycle ended up being sold, then frankly I wish the sellers the best of luck. For me, the hassle was in moving stuff, mainly of low residual value, and I just couldn't be bothered to try and take the time to write out adverts, take photos etc, so good luck to them. I've hoarded stuff for years on the basis that "it may come in handy one day", but am trying damned hard to turn over a new leaf, so there was a strict policy of throwing stuff out when we moved. I know I'l regret throwing some of it out, but it had to be done. The final straw was realising we'd moved house half a dozen times and some of the boxes from the first of those moves were still sealed up and in the loft...

Pontius Navigator
28th Apr 2018, 17:07
Vp, quite. We sold a hedge trimmer and lawn rake but kept the chain saw. The sale fell through. We bought a different house I need a hedge trimmer and lawn rake but not a chain saw. At least I still have the petrol mower that had been scheduled to go.

luckily I kept a rack of nuts, bolts, washers, plugs, fuses etc all came in useful.

radeng
29th Apr 2018, 12:08
I went into the WEEE Directive business some time for a short article in amateur radio magazines. The local council could not advise, their contractors never replied and eventually, The Chartered Institution of Wastes Management came up with advice - and that took them some time to find. WEEE can contain all sorts of hazardous materials, including carcinogens such as PCB (Polychlorinated bi-phenol ) and PBB (Polybrominated bi-phenol) which might well be leaking through aged seals on capacitors. There are also the meters that had a luminous scale - perfectly safe while sealed but the radium in the dust when the paint flakes can be inhaled if the glass or housing is broken, and valves that contained radio active gas or in some cases, a radioactive pellet. Plus of course mercury in relays, valves, and even old time clocks, as well as asbestos and cadmium.

Article 14 of the Directive says that  

Consumers have to actively contribute to the success of such collection and should be encouraged to return WEEE. For this purpose, convenient facilities should be set up for the return of WEEE, including public collection points, where private households should be able to return their waste at least free of charge.

Odds are that council run recycling places aren't aware of that requirement!

Pontius Navigator
30th Apr 2018, 07:51
Large appliances are difficult to take to collection points so I often dismantle them first. I guess that is not what is intended. Ditto computers, strip out drives and memory. Took a large freezer to the tip once. She said could not take it without a door ? Fortunately we did have the door. It was a very old one but degassing was not a problem - that was why we were disposing of it. Had it 25 years and 3 replacements since.

Krystal n chips
2nd May 2018, 04:45
Well saw a youtube video (one of the BBC Britain on Film series) on life in the 60's in the UK....

The way the guys were hanging off buildings... tools in hand... (if dropped could kill someone), no safety harness.... in fact no safety at all... genuinely surprised that most weren't killed at some stage it looked that bad. It seemed to me H&S didn't exist in the 60's..

Didn't know there also was a country-wide "Weights and Measures" office that had chaps scooting off in cars spending the day weighting various items... I guess all sorts of departments have been cut/assimilated over the years.

In all fairness, you probably missed last nights C5 programme " British Airways One Hundred Years " which contained some " interesting " archive footage not entirely unrelated to your post. Seen atop a decidedly dodgy ladder, with a bow in the middle, and with a few others milling around on the ground, one engineer working at height on the original Argosy ( I think that was the type ) nose prop merrily clattering around and he about two feet behind it. Let's put it this way.....one slight lurch to his right and "a vacancy has occurred ".....plus a prop change.