PDA

View Full Version : Macron Parlez vouz Anglaise.....


vctenderness
24th Apr 2018, 17:18
Just watched Macron giving a speech at the Whitehouse....in French. Now he speaks fluent English as demonstrated later when answering a question.

Would it not be good manners for the French President speaking to and English speaking audience to use English?:confused:

I’ll stand back now having lit the blue touch paper.......:E

G-CPTN
24th Apr 2018, 17:20
One of the problems with speaking in a language that is not your mother tongue is getting the meanings right.

sitigeltfel
24th Apr 2018, 17:44
"Parlez-vous Anglais?"

Bof!

ethicalconundrum
24th Apr 2018, 17:53
When speaking publicly, I don't speak in the native language. My Spanish is passable, but I speak English unless it is to a person or very small group.

Macron did what almost everyone does who speaks a second language. He used his country's native language for public speaking events and then English where French would not be understood by the person asking questions(more than likely).

vctenderness
24th Apr 2018, 18:46
....so the Queen when visiting France spoke in French. She could have used the excuse of ‘native language’ but she is more professional than that.

ExXB
24th Apr 2018, 18:50
Macron Parlez vouz Anglaise..... isn’t particularly good French.

M. Macron parle anglais would be much better.

G-CPTN
24th Apr 2018, 19:03
Margrethe (Daisy) Queen of Denmark has a speech impediment when speaking her native language - but she can also speak faultless (and very comprehensive) English.

Local Variation
24th Apr 2018, 19:03
Monsieur Macron, have you tried ze head et shoulders?

arketip
24th Apr 2018, 19:08
....so the Queen when visiting France spoke in French. She could have used the excuse of ‘native language’ but she is more professional than that.

Of course, May, Trump and all the other politicians always give the official speech in the local language, because they are more professional

Windy Militant
24th Apr 2018, 19:09
Would it not be good manners for the French President speaking to and English speaking audience to use English?

It would be more helpful if the American President spoke English in the Whitehouse! :roll eyes:

Fareastdriver
24th Apr 2018, 19:13
Who Cares?

obgraham
24th Apr 2018, 20:08
I doubt that any French President, fluent or not in English, will give a major official speech in anything other than French.

In Macron's case, so far most of his public commentary on this trip has in fact been in English.

BlankBox
24th Apr 2018, 21:59
...I have a speech impediment when speaking Danish too...:(

Tankertrashnav
24th Apr 2018, 23:37
I still cringe when I remember a speech which Ted Heath gave in French - something to do with joining the Common Market, as I recall. Far better to have stuck to English

Fliegenmong
24th Apr 2018, 23:59
"Margrethe (Daisy) Queen of Denmark has a speech impediment when speaking her native language - but she can also speak faultless (and very comprehensive) English."

'Our'...that is Australian, Princess Mary is apparently perfectly Fluent in Danish now...

"..I have a speech impediment when speaking Danish too."

Yes, I'm actually learning it right now....is not easy....will be in CPH at the end of the year, and while I know all will speak perfect English....I always like to 'have a go' in the native language...

sidevalve
25th Apr 2018, 06:52
Here's the Great Man speaking French..

BiJePZ_gAbY

and his version was infinitely preferable to Ted Heath's efforts.. (for those with long memories!)

VP959
25th Apr 2018, 07:39
I'm not sure if this is still the case, but there used to be a French law that required French to be spoken at any official function by anyone working for the French government, even if they spoke fluent English. I can remember being at a conference in Toulon and my French colleagues (who could all speak good English) were forced to give their presentations in French, so we all had to use headsets and listen to the interpreters. After each presentation there would be a question and answer session, and invariably the majority of the questions were asked in English. If any of the French presenters dared to try and answer in English a chap that we nick named the "French language Gestapo" would leap up and yell at the presenter to speak in French. The whole situation was just very frustrating for everyone, as it slowed down the natural flow of the very useful question and answer sessions. The same applied to those presenting in English, in that the French delegation were only allowed to ask questions in French, and were supposed to wait until they had received the translated reply before responding.

The French are, or at least were, incredibly protective about their language, and particularly sensitive about the growing anglicisation of it, by English words being included in normal everyday language. I had the feeling that they spent a lot of time and effort in trying to stop the spread of creeping anglicisation and coming up with new French words to replace the English words that were creeping into their language.

Fareastdriver
25th Apr 2018, 08:10
I had the feeling that they spent a lot of time and effort in trying to stop the spread of creeping anglicisation and coming up with new French words to replace the English words that were creeping into their language

The same as the Welsh and Gaelic 'experts'.

wiggy
25th Apr 2018, 08:21
The French are, or at least were, incredibly protective about their language, and particularly sensitive about the growing anglicisation of it, by English words being included in normal everyday language. I had the feeling that they spent a lot of time and effort in trying to stop the spread of creeping anglicisation and coming up with new French words to replace the English words that were creeping into their language.

Academie francaise (http://www.academie-francaise.fr/)

TBH these days it's all a bit more pragmatic...if a word or phrase works it gets used...e.g. le weekend..le big Mac .....deja vu.....peloton :}

And to be fair like many languages they have some cracking words that will never translate simply into a snappy English equivalent ...e.g. Denivele, decrue, ....so it's each to their own when appropriate ( and apologies to the purists for the lack of accents...wrong keyboard..)

izod tester
25th Apr 2018, 08:36
I used to represent the UK on several NATO committees and working groups. The French representatives spoke excellent English but, as a matter of national policy, all formal presentations had to be given in French. Not normally a problem since NATO committees have simultaneous translation services. On one occasion, the French presenter stopped and said in English, "The translator made a mistake on that last section, the correct translation is ...." He had been monitoring the English translation of his presentation whilst presenting in French.

denachtenmai
25th Apr 2018, 08:52
wiggy,
http://www.tedmontgomery.com/tutorial/altchrc.html
Check alt130 and alt138

ORAC
25th Apr 2018, 09:02
The female of the species doesn’t need to show such national hubris

https://youtu.be/h3Iw9NjU4qc

https://youtu.be/uxQpdHz7t2o

G-CPTN
25th Apr 2018, 09:06
The female of the species doesn’t need to show such national hubris

https://youtu.be/h3Iw9NjU4qc

https://youtu.be/uxQpdHz7t2o



Links not visible to me on original p*st.

ORAC
25th Apr 2018, 09:09
Or me and I posted them!!

This update is a total mess on my iPad. Ads overlapping text, can’t see most audio or video links, hard to make posts.

Cant see any advantages so far.

VP959
25th Apr 2018, 09:26
I used to represent the UK on several NATO committees and working groups. The French representatives spoke excellent English but, as a matter of national policy, all formal presentations had to be given in French. Not normally a problem since NATO committees have simultaneous translation services. On one occasion, the French presenter stopped and said in English, "The translator made a mistake on that last section, the correct translation is ...." He had been monitoring the English translation of his presentation whilst presenting in French.

My experience was also as a UK representative on a NATO working group, so we had the same simultaneous NATO translation service. It too used to fall over on occasion, with the interpreters mistranslating some technical terms fairly regularly. One that sticks in my mind is then pretty much always translating transducer (in the sonar sense) as antenna. It happened so often that we just got used to it, but frankly we often all did more useful work in the bar in the evenings than we ever did in the official sessions, as we could all speak one common language, English, which meant that we generally gained a better understanding of each others particular views and concerns.

Tankertrashnav
25th Apr 2018, 09:41
This update is a total mess on my iPad. Ads overlapping text, can’t see most audio or video links, hard to make posts.
Cant see any advantages so far.

I use a laptop for PPRuNe - havent they ever heard of the old saying "if it ain't broke, dont fix it"? Was fine before.

ORAC
25th Apr 2018, 09:49
Just tried to post a URL using the new software. Between trying to go back and force between links and the stupid “Restore Auto-Saved Content” I gave up....

pax britanica
25th Apr 2018, 10:12
Pretty much all major world leaders speak English-not sure about Xi but Putin certainly speaks English, also just about everyone in the world who graduated high school or wnt to university and is under forty speaks English toa degree

. Also as anyone who has learned languages knows that there is a hierarchy of difficulty which goes if I recall (easiest first)
reading -hearng speaking writing so that in the case of English they have a good idea about what may be being said to them before they are comfortable responding .

Almost all major figures speak in their native language , one reason is they are justifiable protective of a centuries old language and culture and secondly as has been pointed out they do not want to make subtle mistakes , get nuances wrong, put the wrong emphasis on something that they are saying in an official capacity.

That said Tony Blair was popular in France because he spoke reasonable french (as indeed his mouthpiece Alistair Campbell who speaks excellent french) . Winston C of course came from a time when the language of international politics and diplomacy was French .

It doesn't really matter what language the Queen uses as she isnt important in the sense she has no political power and is only a figurehead but its nice she did it and again would have learned french properly when at school as posh well brought up ladies would have done in the late 1940s-On the other hand I suppose if anything she should speak German

It is insulting to leaders and their nations to suggest that they should speak formally in English just because they can and because many English speakers can only speak on language, and in the case of more than one US President cannot even do that properly. Hard to find two politicians more contrasting than Trump and Macron who both represent stereotypes of their nation (alright for Macron as he is handsome suave urbane and polished-not so good for DT of course)

treadigraph
25th Apr 2018, 10:13
Or me and I posted them!!

This update is a total mess on my iPad. Ads overlapping text, can’t see most audio or video links, hard to make posts.

Cant see any advantages so far.

Nor me but I can see them if I quote ORAC's original... pourquoi?

Thomas coupling
25th Apr 2018, 10:32
Trump speaks B-O-LL-O-X and nobody seems to care?

meadowrun
25th Apr 2018, 12:34
We have some experience in this regard.
As long as he doesn't stand up and shout something like "Vive Le Louisiane Libre" you should be ok.
If he does, then you kick him out of the country. Like DeGaulle.

ORAC
26th Apr 2018, 07:09
I can sort of se the Commissions’s weird logic. With the proliferation of languages translating costing a fortune, but they struggle to find enough multilingual translators in the range of languages. The one common lingua franca (sic) is English - and with the UK not represented, and leaving, it’s a neutral language to use amongst the remaining EU members*.

*The official Irish language is Gaelic.

https://www.politico.eu/article/english-only-try-au-revoir-french-ambassador-tells-council-philippe-leglise-costa/

English only? Try au revoir, French ambassador tells Council

Quel scandale! France’s EU ambassador on Wednesday walked out of a diplomatic meeting after the Council decided to use only English-language translation in a new working group on the EU’s long-term budget.

Philippe Léglise-Costa, the French EU ambassador, stormed out of the Coreper meeting on the Multiannual Financial Framework after refusing to sign off on a Council Secretariat decision that asked representatives of other EU countries to agree on using English for the group’s meetings, according to several participants.

The Council, one EU diplomat said, “maneuvered the procedure to make the decision pass quickly and efficiently.” The Council generally provides translation in several official languages for such high-level meetings.

Léglise-Costa raised his voice against the Council decision, arguing that France was defending “multilingualism as well as Francophony,” particularly within a group that would be discussing billions of euros in revenues and spending, the European diplomat said. “France demanded that those who wish to speak in their language be provided interpretation,” he added. “There was a bit of tension on that Council operation.”

Leglise-Costa declined to comment. A spokeswoman for the French representation said she would not comment beyond what Léglise-Costa told his colleagues before leaving the meeting. The spokeswoman did not dispute the reports of the ambassador’s remarks......

French is one of the EU’s official working languages. But its historic role as the traditional language of international diplomacy has waned in recent decades amid the spread of English, especially in the EU as new countries joined, including from Eastern Europe and the Baltics where English is more commonly taught as a second language. French officials, including presidents, however, have long defended its use in official meetings......

National honor notwithstanding, Léglise-Costa’s exit was a bit overly dramatic for some diplomats, who described it as a statement of anger that clearly needed no translation. “He left the chair empty,” one diplomat said.

sidevalve
26th Apr 2018, 08:12
France has some "previous (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4840160.stm)" when it comes to walking out of EU meetings because of the use of English.

meadowrun
26th Apr 2018, 09:43
I won't dwell on the issue of dying languages that don't understand that they are.
But consider the "Common Market". Good idea?
Works much better when paired with a "Common Language".
But Non!
Mais Oui!. If you want it to have a chance of success with its re-incarnation as the two letter thing, don't hobble the concept with the Tower of Babel stuff.
Otherwise, see foot, aim, fire. and repeat as necessary.

ExXB
26th Apr 2018, 11:17
But Non, Mais qui?

Best franglais I’ve seen in a long time.