GC -WTF- Is the Training Ban still on or what?

[Liam Gallagher]

Come on GC, what’s going on?

I can see a management pilot who was a trainer and now has a check duty on this roster. He must have very recently accepted upgrade from TC to Checker. When I search the members list, he is still shown as a member.

That’s a clear breach of our rules and a massive slap in the face to those of us who do obey the rules, no matter the cost to us.

This means one of 3 things;

1. The members list is out of date. The GC needs to urgently fix that and needs to get his name in an update as a departed member.
2. CC/TB doesn’t apply to all members, particularly those who are “Training Buddies” of the Chairman.
3. CC/TB has ended and the GC forgot to tell the members.

Last month I turned down $20K in overtime because I didn’t respond to a call outside of my period of reserve. If the Rules are only applicable to certain people and not others, please let me know because next time I’ll just take the cash and leave the rest of you fight for HKPA and RPs because I am starting to no longer care.

Whatever the reason, what an utter shower we have become.

[normanton]

Theres always one who ruins it for everybody else.

Name and shame! Disgraceful.

[arse]

Just to differentiate; TC to TCC is not a choice; upgrade from TC to STC or to BTC is a choice.

Just for clarity. A TCC can do Line Checks, including RQ upgrades. Basically, anything that is NOT a CAD regulatory item.

Liam, ... sanctions eg. the Training Ban, are a long slow process. It is serving a purpose. Don't give up!

[Liam Gallagher]

To be quite clear the duty I saw was a sim check, not a cheap check. That's STC.

It doesn't matter if he's Associate A or Full, he's still a member and obliged to obey the rules. If the GC has decided to "self style" the rules and Associate A members are to be given a free pass, then can I have a free pass too, that way I can work my GDOs and shag the @r$e out of the system like a blessed few seem intent on doing.

If he has resigned from the HKAOA, then the GC should ensure the members' list is updated and his name is published in the update.

Some of the apologist posts on here just reinforce my view that the HKAOA is becoming an Utter Shower and I might just vote myself a 1.25%+$500 pay rise, because it seems the GC is more interested in protecting the career ambitions of a management pilot, instead of protecting my career.

[HVY]

Let's see the initials and we can investigate.

[Liam Gallagher]

I'm skating on thin ice with the moderators, so I'm not going to post initials.

This is pprune so there is no "we" to carry out an investigation. The people to carry out an investigation is the GC. This story is not new. It was on here and most of the whatsapp groups about 6 weeks ago. However, If anyone wants to join the dots for themselves, then any HKAOA member worth their salt should be able to figure out the identity of this individual.

However, "we" should not feel the need to join the dots as the GC should have cleared this up weeks ago by updating the membership list, - if this individual is no longer a member. Should it be that he is still a member, then the membership is owed an explanation, which will no doubt be met with howls of protests and a couple of resignations (including mine).

[claraball]

STC upgrades have happened all along during the "training ban". GC looking after their own. They justify it as it is not technically a violation of the TB. Just ask DS

[cxorcist]

STC upgrades have happened all along during the "training ban". GC looking after their own. They justify it as it is not technically a violation of the TB. Just ask DS

Not true. All STC upgrades have been non-/ex-members. If this case is different, then it needs to be dealt with, and I’m sure it will be.

[claraball]

Its absolutely true. Upgrades for those already in training were not included in the TB

[flyingbynight]

Even if it is “technically not a violation of the TB” it certainly goes against the spirit of it.

It’s unvelievable that people would even stay in training let alone take an STC upgrade.

[Steve the Pirate]

Its absolutely true. Upgrades for those already in training were not included in the TB

Are you sure about that?

STP

[claraball]

100%. Ask your leadership in a way they have to answer.

[Steve the Pirate]

100%. Ask your leadership in a way they have to answer.

Well, it's not the way I read it on the website - unless it changed at some point and I missed the amendment? By the way you say 'your' leadership I assume you're not a member?

STP

[Liam Gallagher]

Claraball,

I'm not going to post details regarding the TB on a public forum. However, if you really are a member of the HKAOA I suggest you do three things;

1. Logon to HKAOA.org and follow the link on the left hand side of the landing page.
2. Read the very precise words regarding accepting an upgrade within Training.
3. Contact Training Control and downgrade your English Profiency a couple of notches.:hmm:

[cxorcist]

My money is on Claraball being a third floor stooge, maybe even Ms. AT herself. How about you get busy managing FOP and stop farting around anonymously on Pprune?!?!

[Basil]

Ladies & gentlemen, were you around in the nineties?
Did the ASL training ban work then?
This little emoji sums the whole thing up: :ugh:

[claraball]

What I know is members have upgraded to stc and btc and aka mgt didn’t mind. Maybe it was approved before the ban went into place then allowed as an exception.

[Natca]

My money is on Claraball being a third floor stooge, maybe even Ms. AT herself. How about you get busy managing FOP and stop farting around anonymously on Pprune?!?!

Obviously someone without access to the HKAOA current members list.

[RAT Management]

Better be prepared GC to walk away.

Not one pilot wants anything from this mob that will see them worse off lifestyle or money wise than they already are.

You have been forewarned of what the companies stance is going into negotiations. Make sure that door stays open when you walk in... because you don't want anything slowing you down when you get up to walk straight back out again.

In respect to the business situation... Just tell em you will delay talks until the business situation improves..... because that is just around the corner.

Brace yourself for a record profit next year. Oh armera we great.... Our time to win program has delivered better than expected results.

This is the last chance they can use the fuel hedge and competition Mambo jumbo to squeeze concessions out of the weak group of spineless pilots.

Finally the shoe is on the other foot.

[raven11]

The AOA negotiating committee should start and end each day with the question: “How do you plan on training 300 new Second Officers, upgrading 200 JFO’s, and training 100 Commanders next year?”

[Shep69]

This isn’t that hard.

The HKAOA presents a reasonable contract which has a real and retroactive inflationary adjustment, restoration of 13thh month, RPs which make sense, benefits which make sense, clarity and restoration of housing and baseline which advances and takes care of the membership without division.

At the first whiff of Bullsh!t from the other side it is time to leave and perhaps go fishing or rafting or whatever you like to do for the next few months. With a cal us when you’re really ready to make a deal. Although it might be tough to get a call when you’re in the hills fishing.

Rhetoic dont cut it. No one believes them anyway. Trust is a two way street.

[Freehills]

Yep, basically upgrade all C scale contracts to B+

[mngmt mole]

Remind AT that this same company awarded all other staff a 13th month, and our cabin crew a pay raise as well. Also remind her that KA pilots received their full 13th month. Also remind AT that we are overdue for a pay raise. Also remind AT that the AOA is quite busy sending letters to the pilots leaving the company/association for other employers. Also remind AT that she has done nothing to improve the lives and careers of a single pilot at CX. Basically, just tell her that sending her latest newsletter stating that "there is no money", and also her answers to the Slido questions, which were another "big F-U" to the pilots is evidence that once again there is no reason for the AOA to be sitting down with her. To the GC, at the FIRST sign of the company seeking concessions, close your briefcases and walk out.

[raven11]

...”that sending her latest newsletter stating that "there is no money", and also her answers to the Slido questions, which were another "big ***” to the pilots is evidence that once again there is no reason for the AOA to be sitting down...

Instead, why is it so hard for the update to contain something like this:

“The negotiating committes are meeting next week. We know that mistakes were made in the past. The lack of 13th month bonus, which was paid to the cabin crew and to Dragon Air, hurt a lot of you. We acknowledge that the Dragon Air pilots have a contract which contains benefits not found in the Cathay pilot’s COS. Perhaps that should have been addressed at an earlier time. Although the current financial situation remains tight, let’s talk and see what we can do to “right the ship” and make things right.”

[Tea time]

I think that all of you need to help the company out here . All that contracted fuel is very expensive so the quicker that you can all burn it the better . Then we can start using cheap fuel and return to profitability .
another point to make . Where are all the billions of dollars in profits from previous years . This claim that they have no money is totally bogus

[Hiro Nakimura]

claraball - you couldn't be more wrong. Either you are a troll or a whingeing non member - either way you are 100% incorrect.

raven 11- love your second last post. "so, how are you going to 'mitigate' the training ban? You obviously don't need to negotiate with us. Ten SO upgrades per year...massive (non existent) DEFO recruitments and zero basings (but we promise to think about possibly forming a group to maybe look into forming a committee that might make a recommendation on possibly one day basing someone) will lead to huge recruitment dilemmas.... ie, how to accommodate so many pilots wanting to join!

[Cpt. Underpants]

This claim that they have no money is totally bogus
I disagree. I believe the statement to be entirely true. They just didn’t finish the sentence.
They have no money FOR US.