View Full Version : FI Rating with Aerobatics instruction privileges

Kemble Pitts
21st Apr 2018, 20:12
A question for our FCL experts.

I currently hold a Class Rating Instructor 'authorization/rating/whatever it is' with aerobatics instruction privileges. To add aerobatic instruction privileges to the CRI I completed a one day course at On Track.

Now, I have just completed the 30 hour Flight (sic) Instructor Course and will be tested on Monday, Assuming (!) I pass how do I ensure that the aerobatic instruction privileges (that I already hold) are included in the FI Rating?

I know that, in reality, it won't actually mean too much as any aerobatic instruction I give I can provide under my CRI but it would be nice to have it added to the FI Rating 'pour encourage les autres'.

21st Apr 2018, 21:39
SRG 1131 the FI certificate application form, Section 5 includes details of all ratings and certificates held, they should then all appear in the new FI rating in Section XII of the licence under FI with item (f) included.

Kemble Pitts
22nd Apr 2018, 18:47
Thanks Whopity.

In true CAA and EASA style that form looks nicely over-complicated, I hope the Examiner understands it!!

24th Apr 2018, 19:46
I hope the Examiner understands it!! The Examiner is not even required to sign it! The applicant fills in the form. Its not clear so a bit of appropriate annotation where necessary is the order of the day. The ATO will assist.

25th Apr 2018, 07:32
I had a similar issue for years to convert a national Aerobatic instructor into a an EASA one.
The country of issue of my licence (Italy) forever postponed compliance so would have ha to wait to be granted grandfather rights. Decided not to wait and did the EASA 905 check with UK examiner which happened to be at the FTO I was with at the time he had aerobatic rating so was the right person at the right time. I guess a FIC would so as well

By the way WHOPITY has been of great help for me over the years and extend all my gratitude to him since I had many many issues with poorly drafter EASA FCL's regulations which are bound to be interpreted at will by national CAA's.

Back to the issue

- The checkride assessment of competence was entered in my logbook ( EASA Fcl.905 Full FI FI (f) ) with FE name licence number and signature and stamp of the ATO.
- The required forms together with proof on my logbook were submitted to CAA for transcription.
Aerobatic instructor entry was removed from licence replaced in the section XII of said licence by FCL.905 FI (a) (b) (f). Aerobatic rating to which it is linked appeared on section XIII. Ax far as you are concerned should be the same but instaed of FI should read CRI I guess

Hope this helps

Kemble Pitts
25th Apr 2018, 21:25
Thanks Whopity and Markkal

I like the idea of adding appropriate annotation - I'll try that. I passed the Test so now for the paperwork!!

It says in the guidance notes that CAA want all original log-books with the application. As you'll imagine I'm very uncomfortable about posting my log-books anywhere, has anybody sent certified copies and had that accepted by CAA?

26th Apr 2018, 05:30
Good luck ! if you send me a PM with your mail I will send you scans of all annotations with great pleasure. About logbook had to go to CAA in person with it .

Kemble Pitts
26th Apr 2018, 08:14
Thanks, PM sent.

18th May 2018, 11:44
Now then. My UK CAA FI rating issued many many years ago came with a 'no aerobatics instruction'. When I converted to EASA guess what, no little f, but the gave me an aerobatics rating? Do I (can I) claim my little f, or will they tell me to f............!
I should add I had the 'no aerobatics instruction' removed from my UK rating a long time ago.

Kemble Pitts
19th May 2018, 19:59
So far 50% from CAA FCL. Despite a clear request to add (f), aerobatics instruction privileges, to the new FI rating on the basis I already have it on my CRI they did not do it.

When I said "oi, the requirement to have it on the FI is exactly the same as for the CRI so why haven't you added it?" I was told I had to fill in a new form, send them my log books again (which they'd just sent back to me damaged) and pay them another 91!! FFS.

Let's say I'm in debate with them.

Kemble Pitts
2nd Jun 2018, 20:41
To finish the story...

I was getting no responses to my e-mails so I asked the CAA CEO for assistance in resolving the matter. I got a very quick reply (same day) saying he'd passed the matter on to 'the relevant team to investigate'. Less than a week later my new-new licence arrived in the post with aerobatic instructor privileges included on my FI Rating.

The moral of the story seems to be, if you have a sound argument but hit a brick wall, go straight to the top. Richard Moriarty - [email protected]

The new CAA CEO gets my vote and I sent him a message of thanks straight away. I also asked him to thank CAA-FCL Dept as they did, in the end, fix the problem quite speedily.