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Highway1
16th Apr 2018, 15:43
I thought that one of the main benefits behind 'driverless' cars was that you could be doing something else at the time.. :ooh:


A new driving license system for owners of driverless cars should be considered because of safety fears, a study suggests.

Autonomous vehicle owners could soon be forced to pass a new driving test due to mounting concerns over the safety of the technology.

The study also suggests that new laws might have to be enforced so that the 'drivers' pay attention while the car is moving, instead of sleeping, reading or watching films.



https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/driverless-car-owners-could-need-a-new-licence-safety-fears-spark-plans-to-introduce-driving-tests-to-ensure-motorists-pay-attention-rather-than-fall-asleep-or-watch-movies/ar-AAvVo8l?li=BBoPJKX

Fareastdriver
16th Apr 2018, 16:19
They have the same thing in aviation.

It's called a multi-engine qualification.

meadowrun
16th Apr 2018, 16:23
We all know that there are great numbers of total incompetents who should never get within 20 feet of a driver's seat, let alone drive. They are all around us.


When driverless cars get foolproof to the point of allowing drivers to devote all their limited attention to playing solitaire or minefield- they should put all the idiots in them.
And everyone else can drive proper motors.

Turbine D
16th Apr 2018, 16:35
I thought that one of the main benefits behind 'driverless' cars was that you could be doing something else at the time..
I don't see why we would need a different driver's license as there are already lots and lots of drivers now that are doing something else at the time...:ok:

VP959
16th Apr 2018, 17:02
Here we already have the equivalent of ratings on a driving licence. As I understand it, the basic driving licence now has separate categories for automatic transmission cars, manual transmission cars, at least two categories of motorcycle I think, another category for towing a trailer, and additional categories for large passenger vehicles like buses, heavy trucks etc.

Back when I took my motorcycle, and then car, driving test, there were only four licence categories I think, motorcycles, cars and vehicles up to 7.5 tons, with or without a trailer, public service vehicles like buses and heavy goods vehicles.

With just a car licence at the time I passed my test you could legally drive/ride anything from a moped, through manual and auto cars, minibuses, and trucks up to 7.5 tons unladen weight. Things have changed a great deal since, so I can't see any real problem with adding a new category for self-driving cars.

ORAC
16th Apr 2018, 17:26
So you have 4 passengers in the back of a driverless car - which one needs a licence?

VP959
16th Apr 2018, 17:33
So you have 4 passengers in the back of a driverless car - which one needs a licence?

Perhaps it may be a bit like driving to the pub at the moment - maybe one person will have to legally be the "designated driver"?

chevvron
16th Apr 2018, 17:56
Here we already have the equivalent of ratings on a driving licence. As I understand it, the basic driving licence now has separate categories for automatic transmission cars, manual transmission cars, at least two categories of motorcycle I think, another category for towing a trailer, and additional categories for large passenger vehicles like buses, heavy trucks etc.

Back when I took my motorcycle, and then car, driving test, there were only four licence categories I think, motorcycles, cars and vehicles up to 7.5 tons, with or without a trailer, public service vehicles like buses and heavy goods vehicles.

With just a car licence at the time I passed my test you could legally drive/ride anything from a moped, through manual and auto cars, minibuses, and trucks up to 7.5 tons unladen weight. Things have changed a great deal since, so I can't see any real problem with adding a new category for self-driving cars.

Don't forget a full motorbike licence also qualified you to drive 3 wheel cars eg Reliants, bubble cars (eg Messerschmidt), Bond Minicars/Bond Bug etc.

G-CPTN
16th Apr 2018, 18:07
Driving licence categories (https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories).

MG23
16th Apr 2018, 19:37
Perhaps it may be a bit like driving to the pub at the moment - maybe one person will have to legally be the "designated driver"?

What's the point of a 'driverless car' if you can't all get pissed at the pub and have it drive you home?

This is the fundamental problem with the things. There's a use for an automated cruise control that can handle open highways in good weather. There are a lot of uses for a car that can drive itself in all conditions, and doesn't even have backup controls. There's not much use for a car that drives itself safely 99% of the time but crashes and kills you 1% of the time because you'd got bored and started playing Angry Wombats and weren't watching the road when it suddenly tried to hand control back to you.

VP959
16th Apr 2018, 19:44
Don't forget a full motorbike licence also qualified you to drive 3 wheel cars eg Reliants, bubble cars (eg Messerschmidt), Bond Minicars/Bond Bug etc.


I should have remembered this, as my first "car" was a Nobel 200, a three wheeler with a single cylinder Sachs two stroke engine and diabolical cable operated brakes. It's most peculiar feature was that it had eight gears, four forward and four reverse, as to reverse you had to stop the engine and start it again running in the opposite direction.

I've just checked my licence, and it seems that I can drive categories AM, P, A, B, BE, C1, C1E, D1, D1E, F, H*, K, L, N and P.

*H was courtesy of a freebie course at Bovington, mainly driving a CVR(T) around the test track, with short stint in a Warrior and a Challenger. I did the road part of the test in a Warrior - not fun!

flash8
16th Apr 2018, 19:46
Driverless cars will also have to run in alternate/direct law :) Hence the licence...

meadowrun
16th Apr 2018, 20:07
you had to stop the engine and start it again running in the opposite direction.


Some Triumph 500 single owners had something of similar problem with often very painful consequences.

ShyTorque
16th Apr 2018, 22:14
As I understand it, the basic driving licence now has separate categories for automatic transmission cars, manual transmission cars

For many years, if you took your driving test in a car with automatic transmission, that's all you could drive, but if you took the test in a manual transmission you could drive both. I passed my car test in 1976 and that was the case even back then. Most of the other categorisations are relatively recent changes. :)

G-CPTN
16th Apr 2018, 22:30
Some of the recent changes to licence groups have been initiated by attempts to synchronise with EU licence groups I believe:- Categories valid in all EEA member states (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_driving_licence#Categories_valid_in_all_EEA_member_ states).

spekesoftly
17th Apr 2018, 00:37
Interesting to compare today's regs with my recollection from say the 1960s when I learnt to drive etc.

With a provisional motorcycle licence at age 16 you could:-

a) Ride a motobike with engine size not exceeding 250cc (Pillion passenger permitted providing they held a full motorbike licence).

b) Ride a motorbike with sidecar (Unlimited engine size and passengers permitted without any licence).

c) Drive a three-wheeled car (Provided it was not fitted with a reverse gear).

ExSp33db1rd
17th Apr 2018, 01:04
Don't forget a full motorbike licence also qualified you to drive 3 wheel cars eg Reliants, bubble cars (eg Messerschmidt), Bond Minicars/Bond Bug etc.

Got my M/Bike licence in 1951, on my old school push-bike fitted with a 25cc 2-stroke engine built into a replacement rear wheel, Cyclemaster. The examiner told me to ride a circuit that he could see, Halt signs, Traffic lights, Ped. crossings etc. then stepped out in front of me with hand raised and shouted STOP ! My bike brakes were not up to the increased urge provided by the engine, but I managed not to hit him. I could have then gone out and bought a 1,000 cc.super bike, having never ridden a "proper" M/bike at all.

I've never had to sit another M/bike test in my life, despite having used my UK licence as a visitor in many countries, and now a multi class NZ licence, the "aged driver," i.e. 80+ medical certificate also validates my microlight pilot licence !

Recently undertook, voluntarily, an AA offer of a, free, Aged Driver Assessment ride. Had it been a test I would have passed, he said. He also said he would fail any new applicants who stopped at Give Way signs unnecessarily, e.g. entering a roundabout when approaching traffic is not an issue, still not being "on" the roundabout, which almost all NZ drivers seem to do. Thinks .... how will a driverless car cope with that, how will it be able to assess how far away, and at what closing speed, an approaching vehicle at 90 degrees is ,and whether it can proceed " without impeding the progress of" ( my definition of Give Way, i.e. not necessarily a stop command ) ? Should it be programmed to stop automatically then I might be forced to commit motorvehicleicide. ( homicide of auto driver )

sherburn2LA
17th Apr 2018, 01:53
For those of a certain age (everybody on here it seems) when 'One Man Buses' were being introduced.

Massive crash, dozens of victims.

Plod: Now then driver whats happened here then ?

Driver: Don't ask me guv, I was upstairs collecting the fares.

meadowrun
17th Apr 2018, 06:09
And the one about the new motorhome owner who drove it off the lot onto the highway, pointed towards home.
Set the cruise control and went to the back to make a pot of coffee.

gruntie
17th Apr 2018, 07:14
b) Ride a motorbike with sidecar (Unlimited engine size and passengers permitted without any licence).

c) Drive a three-wheeled car (Provided it was not fitted with a reverse gear).

The definition of b) was something like “3-wheeled vehicle of no more than x-cwt having no reverse gear”, so vehicles in c) could also be made to fit the regs....

However note that “sidecar” was not actually specified: a suspiciously large number of powerful bikes were seen sporting an attachment of not a lot more than a pole and a wheel......

VP959
17th Apr 2018, 09:08
My first motorcycle was a Triumph T100, fitted with a sidecar. I rode it to school, when I was 16, with L plates and on a provisional licence. I could carry passengers legally, which at the time was my sole reason for buying a combination; so I could pick up young ladies.

I borrowed a friends Honda 90 (not the C90, the one that looked like a mini-motorcycle) to take my test. The test was in Slough and consisted of riding around the block in different directions, with the examiner standing on the pavement with a clipboard, taking notes. Part of the test involved riding at a walking pace without putting your feet down, to show you had adequate balance and clutch control. At one point he stopped me and asked me to do another trip around the block, saying he was going to hold his clipboard out into the road in front of me at some point and he wanted me to execute an emergency stop. After that there were a few minutes of questions on the highway code and road signs, followed by him giving me the much-vaunted "pink slip" (the pass certificate). I then took the side car off the T100, removed the L plates and rode around with the provisional and the pink slip until the 6 month validity period of the provisional ran out, when I got my full bike licence.

jolihokistix
17th Apr 2018, 10:49
Had a Heinkel three-wheeler bubblecar when I was sixteen and remember enjoying collaring a policeman down a cobbled back street in Norwich to help me push the thing backwards and turn it around.


Got to agree with MG23 above though: "There's not much use for a car that drives itself safely 99% of the time but (suddenly?) crashes and kills you 1% of the time..."

Carry0nLuggage
17th Apr 2018, 11:07
There's a lot of this technology creeping into everyday cars anyway. 'The most significant development since the safety belt' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43752226)

After some dopey driver rear ended us last year I'd be looking for systems which stop the other car! Failing that, would some sort of reactive armour in the side and rear panels work I wonder? :E

aerobelly
17th Apr 2018, 13:14
I borrowed a friends Honda 90 (not the C90, the one that looked like a mini-motorcycle) to take my test.

C200, my first motorbike. Ooof, three grand for a good one and two for a runner!


'a

longer ron
17th Apr 2018, 14:02
I borrowed a friends Honda 90 (not the C90, the one that looked like a mini-motorcycle) to take my test.

I had a Honda 90 as a 'ratbike' for a couple of years ( a CD 90 Z - not the 90 sports) - great little bike for local trips and around the airfield to work :).
I had a car licence a couple of years before I started riding bikes seriously - a BSA 650 Tbolt came up for sale on camp and I bought that - I figured that if I got stopped by the plods a quick glance at my full car licence - the old red book with gazillions of vehicle 'groups' typed on one little page would probably be accepted (I would defy anybody to know all the groups in those days) as it really was a complete jumble of different groups,the groups/categories have been much simplified/thinned out since then LOL

Highway1
17th Apr 2018, 14:50
if you cant get drunk, sleep, do the crossword or text on your phone I'm left wondering if there is going to be much of a market for these contraptions..

Prawn2king4
17th Apr 2018, 15:44
On a slightly different issue ......... the MOT fail checkbox should be interesting, plus the invoice!

ShyTorque
17th Apr 2018, 16:41
Seems to me you could get caught with your trousers down in one of these driverless cars.

If not, what's the point? :E

ExXB
18th Apr 2018, 13:13
And the one about the new motorhome owner who drove it off the lot onto the highway, pointed towards home.
Set the cruise control and went to the back to make a pot of coffee.

But existing technology permits this. Adaptive cruise control plus lane assist. Features on many cars these days.

oldchina
18th Apr 2018, 13:28
"Lane assist"

What the f*k is lane assist? Cruise control is my right foot,
and if I can't stay in lane I'd better surrender my right to drive. The
driving test should also include the ability to navigate without the bloody GPS.