RAF Air Traffickers Are Top Notch

[MightyGem]

Surprise this hasn't surfaced on here yet. :E

[Out Of Trim]

Really!

I don't believe any Airline would look kindly on this kind of message..

Why would you do something like this?

Must have a huge Ego! Not good for the RAF image really.

[Ivor Fynn]

No, it hasn’t gone down too well, a bit of a laughing stock amongst the airlines!

Ivor

[cynicalint]

Seems like an unexpurgated attempt to get special treatment to me! Headed notepaper, birthday etc. asking for an upgrade without actually saying it

[Lima Juliet]

My favourite meme from the whole saga:

http://i67.tinypic.com/1z3ywdu.jpg

[Alber Ratman]

Genunie and the Guy has been shot down on Groundcrew forums and other socal media so badly, he has deleted his accounts. T0$$£R is not apt enough.

[Cpt_Pugwash]

He could perhaps have got away with it one day earlier. :-)

[H Peacock]

Seems like an unexpurgated attempt to get special treatment to me! Headed notepaper, birthday etc. asking for an upgrade without actually saying it

I think you'll find that's normally how it's done. Not so sure about the headed paper etc, but you don't actually ask for an upgrade if you want an upgrade - not once you're on board anyway.

[TUPE]

To$$er - should be ‘Yours faithfully’!

[Top Bunk Tester]

No words needed

[air pig]

Ripped to pieces on Arrse, not a member of the RAFs finest moment.

[airpolice]

Leaving aside how stupid this is, and how much Steve must be regretting doing this, I think there is a bigger concern.

A SNCO writing a letter for personal gain, on headed paper from the unit he serves at?

Whether or not you consider it to be a dreadful attempt to get an upgrade (which it clearly is) there can be no excuse for the abuse of the letterhead.

I hope that he's the exception, rather than a typical example of what passes JATCC nowadays. How has the RAF got to a point where anyone thinks this is acceptable?

What standard of general service knowledge and service writing is currently demanded of candidates?

No matter what the reason, no matter the subject, a Sgt sending letters on headed paper from the School? Strange days indeed.

[PapaDolmio]

Leaving aside how stupid this is, and how much Steve must be regretting doing this, I think there is a bigger concern.

A SNCO writing a letter for personal gain, on headed paper from the unit he serves at?

Whether or not you consider it to be a dreadful attempt to get an upgrade (which it clearly is) there can be no excuse for the abuse of the letterhead.

I hope that he's the exception, rather than a typical example of what passes JATCC nowadays. How has the RAF got to a point where anyone thinks this is acceptable?

What standard of general service knowledge and service writing is currently demanded of candidates?

No matter what the reason, no matter the subject, a Sgt sending letters on headed paper from the School? Strange days indeed.

Instant dismissal where I work- using company logo for personal gain.

[KPax]

Old news, went viral, it became very personal and it was deleted, suffice to say he has learned his lesson.

[Pure Pursuit]

Old news, went viral, it became very personal and it was deleted, suffice to say he has learned his lesson.

He’s still a c@ck!

Not old news at all! It’s only a few weeks old and his b@llocking was earlier this week. I have absolutely no sympathy for him whatsoever.

[ORAC]

https://youtu.be/VmW-ScmGRMA

[jayteeto]

So a military bloke tries a pretty original method of getting an upgrade in a world where it’s virtually impossible to get an upgrade. It’s cheesy, cheeky and made me cringe and laugh at the same time.
Not something that I would do, but come on!!! He’s not a c@ck. lighten up here, it’s something to have some crew room banter about. On headed paper? Maybe not the finest idea, but I’ve read some MUCH more outrageous letters on headed paper that were actually official business

[airpolice]

Jay, this letter is in the format of a very common note passed to the cabin crew, for the attention of the captain, by lots of Police Officers when flying.

I see the benefit of a pax who is current in public order restraint (and well suited to giving evidence later) able to assist the crew with an unruly passenger, not as rare as it once was, but a controller?

[bingofuel]

Would you really accept a typewritten note as evidence that a passenger is actually what they claim to be, and request such a passenger to assist in restraining an unruly passenger?
I certainly would not!

[sangiovese.]

If you want an upgrade there's a very easy method

It involves your credit card..:E

[tilos]

In these days when 90% of the population are taking photographs of themselves every ten seconds and documenting their every bowel movement online it seems to me that writing a straight forward letter is to be applauded.
Over the years I have received, via my company, many letters like this and its what used to be called, in more courteous times, A Letter of Introduction.
This letter would normally give the writer a visit to the flight deck or a chat with the crew at some stage of the flight. Prior to 9/11 I would also probably offer a cockpit jump seat for take-off or landing. It was an opportunity for someone to gain an idea of what was involved in operating an airliner and for the crew to hear someone else’s life/occupational experiences. It would also in a few cases lead to future employment of the writer.
The letters would come from general members of the public, teachers, firemen, atc staff et al.
I say well done that man.

[chevvron]

Prior to 9/11, civil controllers working for NATS were permitted to take free 'familiarisation flights' with some airlines for 'liaison' purposes. We were issued with letters of introduction to hand to cabin crew in the hope the captain would grant access to the flight deck; the Captain would be informed prior to the flight to expect us on board.
In some cases (usually IT flights eg Britannia, Air 2000 etc), the check - in agent would be told to expect you in which case you were often not even allocated a cabin seat (which they could sell of course) and travelled out and return in the jump seat. On all flights you were only permitted a single night stopover if there was no return flight the same day (eg Air Malta to Malta).
Of course, this was all done officially, whereas it would seem the letter above was done on an individual's own initiative.

[Cows getting bigger]

It seems to me that chap who made the letter public is about as professional as the chap who wrote it.

[rathebelucky]

Hey Tilos/Chevron

Get on board fellas. We are not here to discuss alternate views or consider any background/surrounding circumstances that have led to this. What we have been presented with here is a snapshot of a situation that has now entered the social media environment. Consequently ridicule and humiliation are to be heaped upon the individual and an element of retribution meted out; to be determined by social media.

Unless of course we can identify some potential bigoted overtones in the malicious manner in which this has been 'outed'. In which case we should be looking to take offence on behalf of the offended at the heavy handed attitude of the RAF in applying censure (if previous posts are to be believed), a public inquiry should be convened to determine which unpleasant individual thought to take this out of their professional environment and post it into the public domain and the airline concerned pursued into bankruptcy for not affording this person the rewards their endeavours deserved.

[Il Duce]

Any assistance deemed necessary? I'd have told him to make the tea - and got his wife to hand it out as a birthday treat.

[chevvron]

Any assistance deemed necessary? I'd have told him to make the tea - and got his wife to hand it out as a birthday treat.

They would both need to hold a 'Food Hygeine Certificate' to do that.

[NutLoose]

Interesting concept... Hmmmmm

I am an licenced aircraft engineer and will be travelling with you today, if you have any problems I would you suggest you get your arses out there and fix it.

Yours

NL

:}

My mate actually fixed the flight he was on lol, although the airline he worked for wasn't the one he was flying with, they had a maintenance sharing contract in play and his wife nagged him when it went tech on the homeward start up, after a chat to the crew who contacted their base, he was authorised to have a look at the problem which he promptly fixed allowing the aircraft to depart. He was served quite a bit of complimentary drinks on the flight home and was cheered by the pax when he got back onboard.

[Una Due Tfc]

Nobody has answered the most important question....did he get his upgrade?.....

I’d certainly expect disciplinary action if I used my company’s headed paper for something like that. What use am I, an ATCO, to you lot anyway once underway. A doctor, nurse, police officer...sure, but other than perhaps a chin wag to answer a few useful questions we might have for each other....

[flash8]

I've seen a US Government officer type up her own "On US Government Business" letter and use it for discounted USG rate (often 50% of normal rates) on holiday with her family!

She was caught somehow... and other than being a laughing stock.... I believe no further action was taken!

[Cat Funt]

http://https://www.captiongenerator.com/970412/Hitler-learns-that-Sgt-Coombes-isnt-available-

[JPJP]

Any assistance deemed necessary? I'd have told him to make the tea - and got his wife to hand it out as a birthday treat.

A very British version of Jus primae noctis.

:E

[airpolice]

There's a story going round, that the extension number, visible in some copies of the letter, has had to be diverted, to allow normal work to continue.

Now, maybe lots of people have been calling, to ask Steve to rescue a cat from a tree, or leap a building in a single bound, or run faster than a speeding bullet....

Maybe not, but this seems to be gathering steam rather than dying out.

There's no doubt that in Military ATC circles, the guy is a Legend.


No, not the end that you put in your shoe, the other end.

[cargosales]

Oh dear .. The RAF have obviously skipped the 'does this person have any common sense' part of the interview process these days. Especially when it comes to promoting people to SNCO level.

It's been a painful lesson (re-) learned, on both sides, I fear.

There is little chance that 'Rodney' will do anything quite as stupid again, but equally there is little chance [ha ha ha - really? they learn? :ugh: ] that Corporate Stupid will allow anything as daft and blatant as that to happen again.

The are still some ways to get a free upgrade but making a prat of yourself and embarrassing your employer like this are not amongst them...

So where's he getting posted to? IIRC Benbecula always used to be the favoured place for anyone caught being naughty (it was a posting to there within 24hrs for a WAAF Officer caught seducing & shagging a married officer at somewhere I used to reside).

[Il Duce]

No more Benpeculiar, but I bet there are SATCOs up and down the country saying, "Please, don't post him to my tower, not for a couple of years at least."

[Fareastdriver]

So that was the WAAF officer I met at Unst.

[5aday]

Prior to locked flight deck doors, letters requesting "ATC famil" flights were quite rare and often,when they happened, it was sanctioned by the fleet management. As an ex skipper in BA I never received one directly, though a couple of times a CSD mentioned it in passing at the end of the day on the bus back to the crew centre.
Stupid letters, such as this one, were often 'filtered' by the CSD into file 13 and, in my experience, did not reach the flight deck.
All on his own, this man has wrecked his so called career for ever and the R.A.F. should
charge him for bringing the service into disrepute, or remuster him to TAG, or let him leave and tell him his pension has gone for ever.
ps. In my time in the R.A.F. in Air Traffic Control (as an assistant ) , the rank of Sergeant was never a controller and the minimum rank for local control was a Flight Sergeant.

[teeteringhead]

the rank of Sergeant was never a controller Not only do they have Sgts as controllers, there is now direct entry as such, not just the cream of TG 9.

Personally, I have no difficulty with this: for years we have had direct entry SNCOs as aircrew, and for even longer direct entry controllers as officers.

So if (perhaps a big if!) you can accept a 20 y.o Plt Off controller, and a 20 y.o. SNCO Chinook loadie, then what's the big deal about a 20 y.o SNCO controller??

[Trumpet_trousers]

ps. In my time in the R.A.F. in Air Traffic Control (as an assistant )
Hmmm.... no axe to grind there then, clearly!

[charliegolf]

Not only do they have Sgts as controllers, there is now direct entry as such, not just the cream of TG 9.

Personally, I have no difficulty with this: for years we have had direct entry SNCOs as aircrew, and for even longer direct entry controllers as officers.

So if (perhaps a big if!) you can accept a 20 y.o Plt Off controller, and a 20 y.o. SNCO Chinook loadie, then what's the big deal about a 20 y.o SNCO controller??

:D:D:D:D:D:D

CG

[hoodie]

...the R.A.F. should
charge him for bringing the service into disrepute, or remuster him to TAG, or let him leave and tell him his pension has gone for ever.

Maybe you should just shoot him.

After all, there are few offences more serious than being a prat, and the rest of us are perfect, obviously.

[5aday]

Indeed. I was not aware of these changes. I did say 'in my time' and clearly things have changed in Trade Group 9. I've been retired from flying for 16 years now and quite frankly, now I don't give a rats arse.
ps. Changes in TG9? It needed a lot of changes.
pps. It was always a request from fleet management , always short haul, and I was never asked anyway. On reflection, I think I would have always denied a 'famil' jump seat. In 35 minutes going to CDG ( or BRU or MAN for example) there was very little time to talk to anyone else (on the flight deck) except the F/O.

[airpolice]

I have no idea if Steve Coombes was direct entry or a former assistant, but either way, he should have sufficient GSK to understand that such a letter is not appropriate.

I don't think it fair to compare the direct entry Pilot Officer doing JATCC with a direct entry Sgt going there, as the IOT element is the best part of a year before getting to Shawbury.

A huge part of being a Sgt controller is being a leader, as well as being a controller. The SNCO bit is not just a badge, and perhaps more emphasis needs to be placed on "Sgt qualities" when the selection for JATCC is being made.

[SFCC]

I say lay off this guy now.
He was a bit of a tool doing what he did but we've all done things we'd rather misremember.

Next discussion....;)

[charliegolf]

Bit shoddy that he has been named IMO. Banter and opinion about the whys and wherefores is one thing... His missus must be cringeing at also being outed.

CG

[NutLoose]

I do find it rather strange that they took to obliterating his Christian name but left his surname in view, thus meaning in no uncertain terms he would be identified, there cannot be many ATC in the RAF with that surname these days.

I also find it rather disturbing that they took it upon themselves to publish what was probably a confidential letter between himself and the crew, surely any such correspondence between passengers and crew should be dealt with by the company and not a member of the crew in making it so public.. I do hope that crew member is disciplined as he / she may have destroyed this persons career, if I was the Sgt involved I would be writing to the Company requesting the matter be dealt with as I am sure some of their company rules have probably been breached..

You now all seem intent on ridiculing him and his family, but also his qualifications to be in the job, and that is bad form, I think you will find he has worked his way up from being an assistant to a controller in about 10 years, and is not a direct entry.
I do wonder if the outcome would have been the same if an RAF doctor or paramedic had written the letter, would we still be having this conversation.


.

[chevvron]

Indeed. I was not aware of these changes. I did say 'in my time' and clearly things have changed in Trade Group 9. I've been retired from flying for 16 years now and quite frankly, now I don't give a rats arse.
ps. Changes in TG9? It needed a lot of changes.
pps. It was always a request from fleet management , always short haul, and I was never asked anyway. On reflection, I think I would have always denied a 'famil' jump seat. In 35 minutes going to CDG ( or BRU or MAN for example) there was very little time to talk to anyone else (on the flight deck) except the F/O.

As a civil ATCO, we always got these letters issued to us to give to cabin crew when undertaking a 'fam flight'. We recognised it was always 'captain's discretion' for access to the flight deck.
Usually with BA, you were invited to join the crew at crew reporting, but still had to travel to the aircraft with other pax as you didn't have the necessary airside pass(es).

[heights good]

I have no idea if Steve Coombes was direct entry or a former assistant, but either way, he should have sufficient GSK to understand that such a letter is not appropriate.

I don't think it fair to compare the direct entry Pilot Officer doing JATCC with a direct entry Sgt going there, as the IOT element is the best part of a year before getting to Shawbury.

A huge part of being a Sgt controller is being a leader, as well as being a controller. The SNCO bit is not just a badge, and perhaps more emphasis needs to be placed on "Sgt qualities" when the selection for JATCC is being made.

IOT is 6 months now and SNCO training is 5 months.

Having done IOT and AATS I can say without a shadow of doubt AATS was more difficult, made more robust servicemen and had real leadership and teamwork drilled into you. IOT was a complete waste of time and crammed a 4 month course into 9 months....

[charliegolf]

So the DE airman aircrew bit is now 21 weeks (Halton and Cranwell) vs 12 weeks (Swinderby and Finningley) back in the last century. And the walking-talking-not-eating-yer-peas-with-yer-knife course is 8 weeks longer too! Blimey!

CG

[airpolice]

This conversation should not be "just" about Steve Coombes, but about whether the system failed him down, of if he managed to furky tup all alone.

He has clearly (from what I hear from within TG9) learned his lesson, but has the system?

[NutLoose]

HE IS NOT DIRECT ENTRY,
reread my post 46

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

I do find it rather strange that they took to obliterating his Christian name but left his surname in view, thus meaning in no uncertain terms he would be identified, there cannot be many ATC in the RAF with that surname these days.

I also find it rather disturbing that they took it upon themselves to publish what was probably a confidential letter between himself and the crew, surely any such correspondence between passengers and crew should be dealt with by the company and not a member of the crew in making it so public.. I do hope that crew member is disciplined as he / she may have destroyed this persons career, if I was the Sgt involved I would be writing to the Company requesting the matter be dealt with as I am sure some of their company rules have probably been breached..

You now all seem intent on ridiculing him and his family, but also his qualifications to be in the job, and that is bad form, I think you will find he has worked his way up from being an assistant to a controller in about 10 years, and is not a direct entry.
I do wonder if the outcome would have been the same if an RAF doctor or paramedic had written the letter, would we still be having this conversation.


.

I am with you on this Nutloose. When the story first broke there was a lot of "banter" but it soon turned pretty nasty and the "banter" fun-poking crossed the line. We have ALL messed up at one time or another. In simple instances it was kept within the confines of the tower or sqn, the more spectacular ones may, just may, have made it through the branch to other stations:This one went viral on social media and ran out of control.

I wish him well for the future. If he wishes to take this further then I would advise against it; the root of it all is the letter HE wrote, on headed paper that HE should not have been using for personal gain. Granted, the letter publisher should not have made it public but he/she would not have been able to do so if it had not been written in the first place.

[NutLoose]

SATCO's whipping boy, I defer to your experience, but I would add,

I would refer to post 47, civilian ATC were issued with letters to hand out to crews, indeed they were encouraged and had or used to have a partial PPL included in their course to allow them to experience the other side of the fence and to better understand the implications of their instructions, knowledge can be a life saver.

Nowhere in this thread has anyone thought that he may have actually asked permission, had been granted it, or encouraged to present such a note to the crew, he has simply has been shamefully hung drawn and quartered by the blinkered baying mob.

A quick search of the web will give his experience, working up through the ranks etc, and good for him, he does not deserve this garbage.

[tescoapp]

From what I could see of its trip on social media it originally started with civi pilots having a laugh at the wording and debating what an ATCO could do that was useful while airborne. Of course including their ATCO mates.

It then crossed via friends still serving back to the Mil side of things which is where it got nasty. Then it appear on social FB groups and exploded.

The original didn't have any black lines on it.

The publishing of it would not have gone down well with a lot of crew as there is usually shall we say guidance about passenger information which we may come into possession of. Basically you don't do it. Its usually focused around medical issues in flight and deportees.

On the 25th of May a thing called GDPR comes into force. Now would putting that letter on facebook be considered a breach?

I am more concerned about the chaps mental health. He is not the first and won't be the last to chance his arm for an upgrade. These days though most pilots can't even upgrade there family's never mind strangers.

[Pontius Navigator]

There was a similar public pilloring about 12 years ago or more and by coincidence also involving an ATCO. In that case the individual was not outed on Pprune at least but certainly blew his pseudonym. He was at Nav School and was chopped on his final navigation exercise.

His error was a public rant on Pprune overlooking that staff read Pprune too.

[Pontius Navigator]

I think we should know which Airline :)

[sangiovese.]

Agree with Tescoapp. Although amusing at first I’d now be more concerned for the poor chap himself. Eejit yes but the joke is now over. Move on, I’m sure he now recognises his mistake and many of us have made similarly poor judgements and decisions in the past, just they might not have been so publicly available. I’m not sure how my mental health might cope if I was so treated......

[tescoapp]

It's out there, it's not going to be me that puts it on here.

I don't know for a fact but I am pretty sure the airline knows about it.

Broadcasting it will only escalate things. If the chap in question wants that, he can do it himself.

[chevvron]

From what I could see of its trip on social media it originally started with civi pilots having a laugh at the wording and debating what an ATCO could do that was useful while airborne. Of course including their ATCO mates.

On one Fam Flight, the captain was informed that there was a lady passenger feeling ill so had been put on oxygen; as we were near top of descent, the Captain asked me (civil ATCO) to go back and check on her.

[whowhenwhy]

Having come to this thread rather late, I recall that this type and format of letter was recommended by the Guild of Air Traffic Controllers (GATCO) to be given to the crew when you were on a trip booked through their travel scheme. I vaguely recall (when I worked with SATCO's Whipping Boy) that I wrote one of those letters but baulked at using it when my common sense caption illuminated.

[chevvron]

SATCO's whipping boy, I defer to your experience, but I would add,

I would refer to post 47, civilian ATC were issued with letters to hand out to crews, indeed they were encouraged and had or used to have a partial PPL included in their course to allow them to experience the other side of the fence and to better understand the implications of their instructions, knowledge can be a life saver.

NATS ATCOs on early ATCO Cadet Courses undertook a full PPL course, plus airways navigation training and a 2 week simulator course with BEA; mine was on Tridents (c1974) but later courses did the '737.

[Herod]

Pre 9/11, I had many ATCOs ride on the jumpseat. Good value for both sides. Sadly I believe it doesn't happen any more?

[Clockwork Mouse]

Cut the poor blighter some slack.

[Bob Viking]

I like this more forgiving version of Pprune.

BV

[tescoapp]

To be fair its clamed down a lot quite quickly.

The video of some crow Rocks at end of course getting a brief before their "five miles of death" and being toe to toe with the Royals and Paras usually appeared quite quickly which deflected attention pretty rapidly and effectively.

In fact the batter pointed towards it was far harsher and funnier. But it wasn't towards the individual giving the briefing just Rocks in general.

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

Any assistance deemed necessary? I'd have told him to make the tea - and got his wife to hand it out as a birthday treat.

Oh I dunno; on a mid '80's flight deck Fam Flt (arranged by GATCO) back into that quiet little backwater called Heathrow I was able to enquire, purely as an aside (as we got well into the intermediate approach phase):

"Is it Company Policy to fly the approach on the Standard Pressure Setting?"

Immediate 'cross cockpit gradient' double takes followed by handfuls of millibars (or was it inches of mercury? :E) wound off the altimeters and circa 300ft of separation re-established against other traffic........

[Danny42C]

DM,

"Is it Company Policy to fly the approach on the Standard Pressure Setting?"

Ooops !

[chevvron]

On the flight deck of a 737 descending into Malaga; captain was making a pa announcement; ATC instruct us to descend to what I heard as FL110; F/O reads back 'descend to FL100'. I query this; F/O asks captain who has finished his cabin pa; captain asks ATC; ATC reply 'flight level one six zero'.
Captain turns to me and says 'that sort of thing happens all the time round here'!

[MPN11]

Pre 9/11, I was sat in the jumps seat in the cockpit of a late evening flight LGW-MLA with Air Malta. Both crew with feet up on instrument panel. Somewhere down the west side of Italy, ATC says "Reroute via Point Bravo" [loads of those, I'm sure]. Flurry of maps, and Captain says to FO "Probably that intersection there" and winds heading knob on the autopilot.

I slightly lost confidence in flying with them after that.

[Pontius Navigator]

MPN, we met a Britannia crew (airline) ordered to divert from Fontarosa to Pantelleria. They opted for Luqa as they didn't know where Pantelleria was.

Mind you, a Canberra crew on Bomber Command exercise never found Machrahanish, or the VC 10 crew on the Polar flight didn't know about Longyearben; big enough for an emergency.

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

Wish I'd never found Machrihanish........

[FantomZorbin]

MPN11
I slightly lost confidence in flying with them after that.
You would have lost even more confidence watching Air Malta overshoot behind the tower on a dark and stormy night - ATC was like the proverbial 'tree full of owls'!!

[Danny42C]

Return MLA-LHR one night (super holiday): hostie reads out the spiel for a Boeing 737. Polite pax hear her out - then someone tells her she's in an Airbus 320 !

"Collapse of Stout Party" (as Punch used to say).

[Danny42C]

Poor Air Malta ! Didn't one land on the North taxiway at Gatwick by mistake - only to find someone else coming the other way? (bit of deft footwork saved the day, I believe

[MPN11]

FZ [and others] ... when the OH was serving in Malta in the 70s, she flew quite regularly with them back to UK. Back then they had a Pakistani captain who wouldn't land at Luqa if it was raining, and always diverted to somewhere in Italy!

[Danny42C]

Apocryphal Story (nav training flight):

Student Nav to Pilot: "Change Course!" (we called them "Courses" in those days)

......"What New Course ?" ......."Any Course better than this bloody Course !""

[Avtur]

"Is it Company Policy to fly the approach on the Standard Pressure Setting?"

I was on the flight deck of a USAF RC-135 Rivet Joint, when the pilots were being observed by their STANEVAL. At TOC at FL290 I asked whether there was a reason that RJ SOPs required the Captain's altimeter to be set to QNH, while the Co Pilot's altimeter was set to 29.92" Hg. Much embarrassed and rapid resetting by the Captain, followed by rapid scribbling by Maj STANEVAL in his note book. I always wondered whether Maj STANEVAL was waiting for someone to say something, or whether my question had opened his eyes too. I decided that I would prefer to observe "things" from the flight deck for the remainder of the flight rather than watch the wallpaper and pip squeak department down the back.

[Basil]

I'm sure people make errors when under check which they would not make on a normal flight partly because they over-consider what they are going to do.
Well, that's my excuse! ;)

[tescoapp]

As a slight thread drift...

This miss the transition change over is actually quiet common when the sop is to do it at transition. the more modern FMC machines you can program a warning so the computer will remind you.

If you do it the British way when your cleared, its over 10 times less likely. And this isn't just a Brit having to change its also colleagues who were initially trained to change at TA/TL. I will admit I have done it as well when working at a company which had it as a hard SOP it had to happen at transition.

While using the UK method I have had a stop climb/decent maybe 3 times in 15 years which required a resetting of standard or QNH. Only one of them resulted in a level bust which was going to happen anyway when your descending at 2500ft/min and your given 800ft to level off. It was 1015 QNH that was set so it captured early and still over shot by 400 ft thankfully the cabin was strapped in.

[ShotOne]

Sorry to hear Sgt Coombs taking such a pasting; for what it’s worth,nobody in the airline world is likely to have regarded it with anything other than mild amusement. We get stuff like that all the time, a few chancers but mostly well-meant. Recently a gentleman in his 80’s boarded in a wheelchair. He earnestly presented a letter to his helpers stating “its extremely important you show this to the Captain”. The letter announced him as a qualified RAF pilot who was prepared to assist us in any emergency. Fortunately this wasn’t needed; turned out he’d flown Wellingtons

[phil9560]

Its no worse than any of my kakhanded attempts to get an upgrade...:rolleyes: