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Flydawg
14th Apr 2018, 04:43
Is it really necessary to have human factors to train as a first officer? Isn't there a MCC course that is done when you do a type rating? What part of Human factors would assist in the MCC?
Just wondering.....

bazza stub
14th Apr 2018, 05:09
Is it really necessary to have human factors to train as a first officer?

I would say yes! I fly daily with FOs who wouldn’t know what CRM was if it landed on their face and farted. Let alone all the other components.

Propjet88
14th Apr 2018, 05:26
Strangely enough the CASA rules allow you to do a multi-crew type rating without having completed an MCC. However you cant use it ("exercise the privileges") until you hold an MCC!
You are right that a few airlines have managed to get an MCC qualification included into their type rating course.
However, many have not, so you need to do it separately. Obviously if you are going to work for (or apply to) these airlines, its best to get the MCC out of the way first.

drpixie
14th Apr 2018, 05:33
Despite a level of desperation by airlines, employment still a competitive situation. Anyone without their subjects is at the bottom of the pile. You don't want to be the bunny who's shown that they can't/won't study - airline training involves LOTS of study.

You might think "FO" sounds fine for now, but all airlines want crew who can move to the left seat ... all the Oz airlines are really only interested in people who've passed all their ATPLs.

Seabreeze
14th Apr 2018, 05:59
The subject of Human Factors focusses on the way humans behave physically and psychologically, and how errors come about, and how they may be mitiigated. It is based on the science of psychology and is applicable in general to all human endeavours.

An MCC course is a specific training program designed to teach pilots a standard way to behave in a two-pilot cockpit environment.

A knowledge of human factors provides a useful background to an MCC course, but they are entirely different, so an MCC course cannot replace Human Factors.

In addition a knowledge of Human Factors will help in understanding why you (we all) make errors, and hopefully reduce the number and significance of errors that we do make.

Seabreeze

Flydawg
14th Apr 2018, 08:06
IF you had human factors and MCC would that open up more doors, while completing ATPL? And don't most airlines provide a MCC course anyway?

Propjet88
14th Apr 2018, 11:12
Hi Seabreeze,
OK but your definitions are a bit compartmentalised I feel.
MCC competencies are made up of both theory and practice. The CASA MCC theorietical competencies are identical to the ATPL HF syllabus competencies. The competencies required to be demonstrated in the flight (usually trained in a simulator) portion of the course is about the application of these competencies both as PF and PM in a multi crew environment.
If the theoretical HF does not mesh completely with airborne competencies, the whole thing is a waste of time.
In EASA land (who invented MCC after all) a person cannot undertake their first multi crew type rating until having completed an MCC. It’s a building block approach. You learn the HF theory, you learn to apply it and then do a type rating using and applying those skills while learning to operate the aircraft. Here in Aus, for reasons best known to CASA, you can buy a type rating in a multi crew aircraft at quite a few sim training providers without completing an MCC! However, you cant use the type rating until you have passed an MCC?? It really begs the question as to how effectively this develops multi-crew skills.

Fly Safe
PJ88