Excitement

[natops]

Good day, I was wondering how everyone was doing, dealing with all the excitement in the weeks before the announcement of the huge profitshare and payrise.

😂

[The Outlaw]

On a lighter note, where are all the fat chicks?

[Joker11]

Oh boy. I got sleepless nights. I mean the "free" ticket was amazing, but now the possibilites of more got me all excited.

[natops]

Is it the third Thursday in April or May, think I will clear my roster to go to HQ.

Finally something good happening after all those years waiting...

[BANANASBANANAS]

Is it the third Thursday in April or May, think I will clear my roster to go to HQ.

Finally something good happening after all those years waiting...

I'd settle for just being able to 'clear my roster!'

On a slightly more serious note, I am not holding my breath but the company have really put themselves between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, Dubai is in full on austerity mode but, on the other hand EK can't not afford a substantial pay rise if it wants to crew the schedule.

Interesting!

[PositiveRate876]

What's the easiest decision for those afraid of making decisions?
No decision.


So expect a 6.1% step increase, no pay raise, no change to allowances.
The 10% attrition rate will be compensated by lower minimums and pilots with more 'interesting' flying backgrounds. So what if a couple dozen heavy metal gets put in "active storage". The show will go on.

[givemewings]

[quote] Nah that's just your ****ty roster sending you east and west til you don't know which way is up...

I mean, the 'balanced flying lifestyle' they promised at the roadshow :P

[fatbus]

The hole they have dug is so deep it will be a very long time until there is any noticeable long term improvement to rosters regardless of what $$$ is thrown in. 100 hours + 30 days vacation, get used to it !!!

[SOPS]

AAR has dug the deep hole....it wont be "filled in" until he goes...and that will never happen.....

[desert witch]

AAR has dug the deep hole....it wont be "filled in" until he goes...and that will never happen.....

I have just heard otherwise... Rumour, yes, but with substance if planes are actually crewless.
Wouldn't it be fun if he found out here in pprune.

Maybe he goes as COO of your train company.

[donpizmeov]

Remove two to three cabin crew off flights. Reduce from 4 man ULR to 3 man ULR (scientifically proven these lazy aircrew spend too much time in the bunk don't you know?). And crisis is averted for a few more weeks.
Make big song and dance about removing a few rostering restrictions and promise to have a long hard look at flexible rosters (that's EK style flex roster, not real flex rostering) as a diversion and it should all work a treat.

[SOPS]

I have just heard otherwise... Rumour, yes, but with substance if planes are actually crewless.
Wouldn't it be fun if he found out here in pprune.

Maybe he goes as COO of your train company.

I sleep well at night, knowing there is no possibility of that happening.

[Lynx8]

I had a nightmare last night, EK cabin crew trained as EK cruise relief pilot....than I woke up and started reading PPrunes for other nightmares. No pay rise, no changes and mine was the worst possible nightmare...may be not?

[The Outlaw]

I sleep well at night, knowing there is no possibility of that happening.

78 days and counting!

:)

[fatbus]

For the benefit of your sanity I would strongly recommend not to get to excited . Profit share - little if any and the same applies to pay raise. Do keep in mind two different announcement dates .

[The Outlaw]

Good day, I was wondering how everyone was doing, dealing with all the excitement in the weeks before the announcement of the huge profitshare and payrise.

😂

Darn, I thought it said "excretement" which would make more sense, no one has been "excited" here for years...unless of course you are serving out the resignation period!

[Joker11]

For the benefit of your sanity I would strongly recommend not to get to excited . Profit share - little if any and the Sameer applies to pay raise. Do keep in mind two different announcement dates .

Any idea what those dates are?

[fatbus]

@ 3 Rd week April for AGM re: profit share or not . @mid May for pilot pay review, email not really an announcement .

[givemewings]

Don't give them ideas Lynx! :E

[The Turtle]

Mid-May for the email saying "we're still reviewing the pay package...."

[donpizmeov]

Well the reduction of cabin crew on board has been announced. Should we run a book on which Thursday afternoon in June the reduced pilot ULR crewing will be announced?

[givemewings]

If they're reducing CC levels then the already ridiculous service needs to be reduced too or the complaints will keep rolling in. It's almost impossible already to do it to standard with the full crew, now with less they'll be stretched even more. Watch the stress level go up further.

Speaking of cabin crew it's lovely they're trying to already forget about what happened a month ago.

Reducing pilots on ULR is very dumb. FFS just give a decent package and they will come. Either offer a deal commensurate with being "the world's best airline" or quit pretending to be the best...

[fatbus]

Second officers ? Any guesses when , ULR 1 Capt 2 FO 1 SO

[TOGA!]

Second officers ? Any guesses when , ULR 1 Capt 2 FO 1 SO



Better hope Captain does not get sick down line.

[dustyflightdeck]

Isn't it fun to wonder what else is coming down the conveyor belt??

[fatbus]

Many other airlines do it!

[pilotguy1222]

Remove two to three cabin crew off flights. Reduce from 4 man ULR to 3 man ULR (scientifically proven these lazy aircrew spend too much time in the bunk don't you know?). And crisis is averted for a few more weeks.
Make big song and dance about removing a few rostering restrictions and promise to have a long hard look at flexible rosters (that's EK style flex roster, not real flex rostering) as a diversion and it should all work a treat.

and EK immediately goes from having the lowest sick call rate to having the highest.

[donpizmeov]

The only real solution is to get rid of all those rostering and leave restrictions. And give a signification upward adjustment to pay.
Commuting rosters may help some, but won't be enough to fix the problem.

[Lynx8]

Pretty easy to picture in the following video how a company will definitively sink with wrong people at the wrong place at the wrong time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmOTpIVxji8

and arrogance and blindness in the next video isn't what is happening?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qRDg9WS7fk

[trimotor]

There will be no SO's...cadets would automatically have to be SO's...and that ain't EVER going to happen..

TM

[PPRuNeUser0215]

There will be no SO's...cadets would automatically have to be SO's...and that ain't EVER going to happen..

TM

SO is just a name, it doesn’t mean anything so you could instead call it Junior FO.
A Junior FO would be a low experienced expat who hasn’t done his time in the airline as opposed to a cadet who gets his time of service ( staff number ) accounted for when he first started his training.
Cadets would remain FOs due to their length of service and that way, all egos would be preserved and you would effectively have SOs.

[Fuzuma]

A Junior FO would be a low experienced expat who hasn’t done his time in the airline as opposed to a cadet who gets his time of service ( staff number ) accounted for when he first started his training.

As fatbus says, a lot of airlines have this type of system, it’s a great way to hire low time inexperienced guys and gals, let them gain experience first hand by permanently “augmenting” every leg until their seniority number is high enough to shift across to the right seat as a SFO......and the company can offer them a reduced or lower package until the move across to SFO......

The only serious issue with this type of system is that the hours in the logbook are sometimes not acknowledged by other operators, and thus can be viewed by a prospective applicant as a potential waste of time, the other issue is dependent on how long one would sit in this position, especially if you’re being bypassed by direct entry fo’s and cadets

[PPRuNeUser0215]

The only serious issue with this type of system is that the hours in the logbook are sometimes not acknowledged by other operators, and thus can be viewed by a prospective aplicant as a potential waste of time, the other issue is dependent on how long one would sit in this position, especially if you’re being bypassed by direct entry fo’s and cadets

Then they would get bypassed by DECs 😀... Better they get used to it early then ;).

[Schnowzer]

Have EK not already got lowering experience. Why would you want it to go any lower and risk even more line incidents? The other snag is the Line Training requirement, Cadets and SOs put it through the roof.

This is a rate battle; recruitment rate + training rate vs. attrition rate

The only way to win in the short term is to kill the attrition to provide breathing space.

[Stjuk]

Have EK not already got lowering experience. Why would you want it to go any lower and risk even more line incidents? The other snag is the Line Training requirement, Cadets and SOs put it through the roof.

This is a rate battle; recruitment rate + training rate vs. attrition rate

The only way to win in the short term is to kill the attrition to provide breathing space.


I’m asking because I don’t know the answer... has experience had anything to do with a significant number of recent incidences?

[glofish]

has experience had anything to do with a significant number of recent incidences?

Yes, experience with management

[zk-dxb]

if you wanted to keep a pay differential between the present F/O salary and a proposed scale for S/O - is there enough 'room' there to actually pay a Dubai-Living wage and still attract applicants?

[dubaigong]

you would be surprised , there are second officers in Flydubai paid 12000 Dhs/month ( all included ), no allowance , no sector pay ) until released on line and then 20000 Dhs until reaching 1500hrs...
And they are still flowing in...

[777-200LR]

Junior FOs or guys looking for their first jet are better off going to FD than EK. Initially the money is less, a lot less, but time to command is almost half and the possibilities after that outweigh widebody experience

[Don Corleone]

@ 3 Rd week April for AGM re: profit share or not . @mid May for pilot pay review, email not really an announcement .

Last years profits were announced on 2nd Thursday in May

[fliion]

Wed May 9th I’m hearing.