The timing of the parade flypast

[Flight_Idle]

I've always been impressed by the precision timing of parade flypasts. The boss goes up the steps, turns around, then at the exact moment of 'Present arms' the plane/s fly overhead.


Do they set an exact time in advance? What if the boss is two minutes late?

Do the plane/s loiter nearby to be called in by radio? Does the parade commander have to visually spot the plane/s in order to give the 'Present arms' command at exactly the right instant?


Has there ever been an embarrassing cockup?


Any answers would be greatly appreciated.

[Airbubba]

Some good sea stories of display flying snafu's in this earlier thread:

https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/251704-air-display-c-ck-ups.html

[99 Change Hands]

I was always given a time to which aircrew and parade commander/musical director worked. If events dictated a change this would be relayed by ATC but we could only take changes up to a certain time pre-flypast.

Laarbruch, early 90s, junior ATC Fg Off lurking at annual reception with a STORNO. We repeatedly check with ATC but he hasn’t said a word, fly through on planned time. We arrive later to join the party, everyone very impressed with our timing, ask the Fg Off how it went only to be told that the band had been running 2 minutes late. So why didn’t he tell us? He was like a rabbit in the headlights because the timing was so far out and he didn’t know how to tell us. Approach the band leader, was he really that far out? Oh yes. How did you correct? Oh, the usual, gave the lads a hand signal and changed the time signature. Very impressed with that.

This was the same event where the new Stn Cdr got his timing wrong, mounted the dais one tune too early, and gave an immaculate salute as the band struck up with Copacabana by Barry Manilow. Doing the flypast from behind the crowd with the burners in got a few comments too.

[Fareastdriver]

Sometimes you have to hold on to your hats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3yV7pL1p24

[newt]

There was the famous F4 flypast at Cranwell where it nearly all went wrong! I led the four ship flypast for 20 Squadron being declared operational as a Jaguar Squadron at Bruggen! Still have the thank you letter from their Boss! On time and lower than briefed!!

[Two's in]

Couple of times doing it as #1, we just set up and timed a racetrack so you had anything from 2 to 8 minutes run in time, depending on where you were. Worked with the parade WO to pick at least a good 5 minute and 2 minute warning points, man off to the side on a radio to pass on the check points. Of course, it's all a little more civilized and gentlemanly at 100Kts rather than 350kts.

[ShyTorque]

FED, the parade in your video is an edited version of the one where the infamous F4 flypast took place. The "offending" pass is not shown. I was shown it when I attended the RAF flying supervisors' course and it was very low, followed by an abrupt rotation, which did the damage, due to the strong downwash caused.

As those in the know would agree, you'd have to be a "deaf dumb and blind kid" to fly like that in front of a very senior officer on such an occasion.

[Fareastdriver]

There was another video where an F4 went between the hangers. I don't know whether that was a flypast or a general 'handling exercise'.

I was shown it when I attended the RAF flying supervisors' course

What were those?

[jindabyne]

Shy,

I can assure you that the pilot, a JW, was neither deaf, dumb nor blind.

And as with a certain Mr Pollock mentioned elsewhere he was far from 'unprofessional'. He was immensely capable, and you would want him to be very much on your side. Please understand.

[ShyTorque]

Shy,

I can assure you that the pilot, a JW, was neither deaf, dumb nor blind.

And as with a certain Mr Pollock mentioned elsewhere he was far from 'unprofessional'. He was immensely capable, and you would want him to be very much on your side. Please understand.

JW aren't the initials of the pilot in question.

[Pontius Navigator]

FP usually from behind the review officer. Our passing out parade was a white Victor, first I had seen. I suddenly appeared from behind the barrack block. We had had no warning.

[jindabyne]

Shy,

I must be mistaken - sorry. But my remarks about the Scotsman pilot, JW, stand. He held the high altitude bagpipe playing record for many years!

[unclenelli]

Halton flypasts are at a specified direction to avoid infringing the TVAA (Thames Valley Avoidance Area, only yards to the South over the Chiltern Hundreds), turning North after passing.

[Pontius Navigator]

He held the high altitude bagpipe playing record for many years!
What height pray?

Don Dale and Ginge Knight were both high altitude players.

[Bill Macgillivray]

jindabyne,

Knew the pilot, JW, very well and remember the bagpipe playing episode! A good mate and very good pilot (although I never told him that in those days!).

Bill

[Tankertrashnav]

Our passing out parade was a white Victor, first I had seen.

Very impressive PN. Bet you were gutted when you got posted to tin triangles ;)

My OCTU passing out parade was in a hangar on account of some pretty thick Norfolk fog. I doubt if even Pollock would have managed a flypast, even if they had left the doors open!

[reynoldsno1]

Did the NEAF disbandment parade flypast in 1976 - Nimrod, Canberra & Whirlwind past the dais at the same time was a bit of a challenge. Held over a sonobuoy in formation with the 13 Sqn Canberra - the Whirlwind called the shots really as they had the most flexible speed ...

[Barksdale Boy]

I'm fairly certain MH's 50 Sqn crew set a new record out of Ohakea in 1973 - a RNZAF flying officer (Graham somebody) was the "musician" involved.

[Ascend Charlie]

At a RAAF Academy graduation on Dec 1968, there was a flypast as the parade marched past the dais to depart the parade ground.

There were 4 Mirages, there was no notice of a flypast on the program, and they "appeared" from behind the review stand with an amazing burst of noise that caused the marching cadets to jump a meter sideways, the reviewing officer (Lord Casey, the G-G) fumbled his hat, and Lady Casey reversed menopause.

[wiggy]

Shy,

I can assure you that the pilot, a JW, was neither deaf, dumb nor blind.

.

“I can’t explain” ... ;) ... it fully but as I remember it the deaf dumb and blind tag and other gems all resulted from a bit of word association football post the wash up to the Cranwell event........I can confirm that as Shy has said JW were not the pilot’s initials...

[Pontius Navigator]

TTN, they were still making triangular ash trays at that time. I think come BCBS they were back filling Valiants and building up Vulcans with the Victor at steady state with only 4 Sqns and running down.

[Easy Street]

Parade ‘choreography’ can help too. Not sure whether it’s still the case but the IOT graduation flypast used to take place during a general salute, which was preceded by a minute or two of standing at ease. This was ‘flex time’ for any earlier overrun. A SNCO attendant at one end of the audience would signal the parade commander at the appropriate time to order the general salute such that the flypast coincided perfectly.

[Krystal n chips]

Not quite a planned fly by, but, it does involve immaculate timing and parades.

Llangurig ( many of you will have flown over said village at a rapid rate of knots ) and the collective future of the RAF's engineering elite have been relocated from the Gulag in Bucks to be let loose for 10 days on an unsuspecting Welsh public. The camp, laid out in true military order on the banks of the R.Wye comes complete with flag and pole.

Enter, our hero. Clad in pristine greens ( this was 69 ) and with the very thin and equally pristine rank bar ( this may offer a clue ) barely visible, holding an impressive shepherd's crook stick marginally shorted than himself, who decides to address the suitably underwhelmed apprenti during the morning parade.

The morale boosting commences when, round the corner from the North appears an F-4..which sort of jinks a bit and then gets a bit faster, and, erm, appears to lose a bit of altitude....cue over the top of the parade and on goes the noise from the back...at which point our fearless future leader hits the ground in shock, as we could see the F-4 coming....and he couldn't.

The second pass involved the troops exchanging "hand signals" with the Nav before more noise and a disappearing F-4 made everybody's day....with one possible notable exception.

[nipva]

FED,

'There was another video where an F4 went between the hangers. I don't know whether that was a flypast or a general 'handling exercise'.

This was at St Athan in 1986 and was flown by the then chief test pilot there. It was the custom on the post major servicing delivery flight to give a flypast to the team that worked the aircraft for the preceding 4 months. The gap between the hangars in question was 200ft.

[Flight_Idle]

FED,

'There was another video where an F4 went between the hangers. I don't know whether that was a flypast or a general 'handling exercise'.

This was at St Athan in 1986 and was flown by the then chief test pilot there. It was the custom on the post major servicing delivery flight to give a flypast to the team that worked the aircraft for the preceding 4 months. The gap between the hangars in question was 200ft.



I was there at the time & remember on one occasion a large seagull flying between the hangers as the Phantom passed. Luckily it did not get hit by the aircraft, but the sight of it rapidly rotating in a vortex was quite a sight to see!

[dctyke]

I was WO RTS. OC Ops at Halton was in radio contact with the ac and in visual sight of me. He would give me five mins on the watch, I would nod to the mt driver at two minutes who would then drive the VSO onto the parade ground. Just enough time to get onto the dais arrange his dress then general salute and wrooooooom!

[jayteeto]

I did an approved “flypast” at a wedding in Bangor, N Ireland.
We loitered for ages until the crewman said “They’re coming out now!!!”
I flew past low, actually looooooooow! Fantastic!

Or it would have been if we had got the right church and wedding...........

[[email protected]]

Seem to remember some very 'spirited' graduation flypasts at Linton in late 82 early 83 - the Buccs were the favourite participants as they were always faster and lower than anyone else. One came between the hangars (lower that the top) in a hard turn as doing it wings level would have been a bit tight!

Happy days and nothing like it to better enthuse us students to work harder to be 'that guy'.

[pulse1]

"Or it would have been if we had got the right church and wedding..........."

Reminds me of a fly past of Victor tankers and Lightnings due over our factory at 12:15 one day. TV cameras organised and, bang on time, there they were. Right over my wife's school about 4 miles to the south.

[oldbeefer]

Or it would have been if we had got the right church and wedding...........


Your navigation skills up to their usual standard then :}

[goudie]

Apparently a Buccaneer flew so low and close past a control tower that they could read the writing on the wing, it said ‘no step!’
The full story was on this forum ISTR.

[pontifex]

The way we did it with the Lanc was to set up a holding pattern a fair bit down range. One I was thinking of was using the flood barrier prior to advancing on the pool of London where SWMBO was waiting to announce the price of the Rolls Royce shares. I had to be level with her and she was in the Hayes Wharf building. This demanded a rather low pass (actually a little lower than the Belfast's masts) I also had to pull up a little to safely clear London Bridge. I must point out that this was what she had demanded and none of our VSOs argued! It was fun though. I dont suppose it could happen today.

[Onceapilot]

FI.
In my airborne experience of flypasts and parades, there are really two main timing methods. Either, the flypast occurs at a fixed time or, someone co-ordinates timing updates from the ground to the lead aircraft. The fixed time method seems to work more with the large formal flypasts, usually cast in stone and the co-ordination is done by a worried looking chap who gets the ground event to the correct place at the right time. :rolleyes:
OTOH, events such as BoB drinkies and AOC's will have a nominal timing but, the participating aircraft will normally be in a timing hold about 10Nm away and should be able to adjust to suit the call from the guy on the ground. :eek:
Tales (experience) of cock-ups in the air are comprehensive and, make me wonder why I got duped into doing so many! :rolleyes::O

OAP

[ShyTorque]

Seem to remember some very 'spirited' graduation flypasts at Linton in late 82 early 83 - the Buccs were the favourite participants as they were always faster and lower than anyone else. One came between the hangars (lower that the top) in a hard turn as doing it wings level would have been a bit tight!

Happy days and nothing like it to better enthuse us students to work harder to be 'that guy'.

That Buccaneer flypast (late 1970s) was the last straw which resulted in our course graduation day not being allowed a flypast at all. The CI heard a loud "whoosh", looked up from his desk (first floor of the offices on the front of the hangar), just in time to see the tops of two flying helmets in a tandem cockpit go past his window - aircraft AOB almost 90 degrees. Nothing to do with us, we just happened to be the next course to graduate.

[gzornenplatz]

I was given the thankless task of trying to convince the perpetrator (NOT a JW) to confess that he'd actually screwed up and never intended to fly (a) so low and (b) rotate so early. I was wasting my time. He insisted that this sort of flypast happened all the time and he was only doing what lots of people did. Dumb.

[bspatz]

The reviewing officer for our graduation at Henlow was the Queen Mother and inevitably the latter part of the course was sacrificed to practise parades which we were endless. Unbeknown to us there was a large formation flypast planned (15 ship I think) and as part of the planning one of the Regt officers was monitoring each practise to get a feel for the timings. It would seem that our practises were getting quicker and quicker that is until we did the real thing when we were slower than on any previous occasion. This caused great confusion and resulted in a large formation orbiting somewhere in the vicinity trying to lose time and reschedule the arrival time to coincide with our much delayed marchpast. I have never found out the details of what happened and it would be interesting to hear from anyone who took part in this flypast.

[c52]

wasn't there a B-52 that failed to find Farnborough twice in one week?

[Union Jack]

FP usually from behind the review officer. Our passing out parade was a white Victor, first I had seen. I suddenly appeared from behind the barrack block. We had had no warning.

Handley Page or Vauxhall? And what were you doing behind the barrack block anyway?

Jack

[beardy]

In my airborne experience of flypasts and parades, there are really two main timing methods. Either, the flypast occurs at a fixed time or, someone co-ordinates timing updates from the ground to the lead aircraft.

Alternatively and as used by the French when I was with them, the lead aircraft updates the ground party by radio when he will arrive and the ground party adjust their pace to arrive at the quoted time.

[Davef68]

The full Cranwell video was posted via here at one point, but it seems to have been removed. The one above stops just before the offending flypast

[MightyGem]

St Athan:
http://mindlace.com/fiends/images/lowflyf4the-shop.jpg

[Flight_Idle]

St Athan:
http://mindlace.com/fiends/images/lowflyf4the-shop.jpg



That brings back some memories, though I'm sure a few were a little lower than that, a little lower than the speed of sound but not by much!


I'm intrigued by that photo because we once had a new senior engineering officer who went out to see the 'Flypast' & stood right in the middle between the two hangers, while the rest of us stood near to the hanger walls. We watched & waited in delighted anticipation, knowing full well what was coming!


I'm intrigued by that photo because was that guy in the middle the very same senior engineering officer that I saw?


It certainly was a regular thing at St Athan at the time, but the rumour mill says that the station commander decided that it should not go on.

[scarecrow450]

When a Buccaneer was being delivered to a secret Tornado base in Norfolk we were looking down into the cockpit from the tower as he banked past us, the nav was an ex air trafiker so we just blamed him !

[NutLoose]

I led the four ship flypast for 20 Squadron being declared operational as a Jaguar Squadron at Bruggen! Still have the thank you letter from their Boss! On time and lower than briefed!!

And I was one of the last three on the Sqn, even though it had disbanded it was still stood up on QRA, so we were still so to speak "Active" for a couple of weeks.

[Ascend Charlie]

A chopper flypast was organised for the funeral of an old SGT who was instrumental is setting up our Bushranger gunships. The flypast involved loading a few thousand blanks into the ammo bins for the miniguns, and blazing them off as the bird overflew the funeral.

The squadron CO, also involved in the original setup, was the pilot, and at the nominated time overflew the cemetery and released a bucketload of shell casings and links onto the gathered crowd below.

The radio then crackled "Our cemetery is over HERE!", a couple of miles away! When he got to the correct cemetery, there was only enough for a quick "BRRRRT" and that was it. Red face for the CO, who blamed the Pilot Officer copilot.

[NutLoose]

They did our Flypast even though the parade was in the shed due to the weather, we heard it but no one saw it.

[2 TWU]

Not strictly a flypast but------

In the late 80s, Chivenor was tasked with providing a 4 ship at an army firepower demo on the Salisbury ranges. An instructor, an ex bona jet mate, was appointed to plan and lead, with much banter he chose 3 other ex mud movers as 'we don't want air defenders getting in the way'.

Come the day, much more mud moving banter at the outbrief. As they walked, the duty auth held them with 'M******** is this the task that's in the diary for yesterday?'. Red faces all round, just a mere 24 hours late.

[BEagle]

Back in the late '80s, we were tasked to give a flypast at the sqn's WW2 memorial at Boxbergheide in Belgium. Simple enough - depart Wildenrath, stay at low level and run in from an IP in Germany from the direction of Geilenkirchen. But this was through 3 different nations each with different LL minima. No GPS back then, so finding the IP and leaving it to make good the ToT was down to the navigator, then we'd do a good old 50 thou map run to the memorial. The only problem was that it was very difficult to spot at low level. On the first run all was going well; the co-pilot was flying whilst I did the map reading. Slightly late, I called for an increase in speed and the engineer obliged. Finally I saw the target, but just then the high speed horn warning sounded and I noticed that the co-pilot was finding the controls rather heavy! Power to idle and we shot overhead at 250 ft (ish) and rather quickly for a VC10K. It seem that the engineer ('Lightning Leo' for those who remember) had shoved the throttles forward and then peered out for the target, forgetting to hold the requested speed.

We were asked to do another run, so duly obliged. This time at about 180 KIAS with take-off flap, then full chat just before reaching to folks and flags.

Back at the hotel, the Boss (who'd been at the salute) was ecstatic! He said that the first run had been most impressive, but the quiet purr of 4 Conways at max chat the second time "Nearly caused the woman next to me to have a baby!" as he put it - it was, apparently, rather loud!

Great fun. flypast. Then there was my 'sunset ceremony' one at Brize which was still being talked about many years later - "I learned about QNH from that!"....

[nipva]

Flight Idle

'It certainly was a regular thing at St Athan at the time, but the rumour mill says that the station commander decided that it should not go on.'

Not strictly true. The flypast tradition continued for many years but thereafter always took place over the ASP on the disused runway as being less hazardous. The lack of obstacles also gave greater scope for manoeuvre.

[Blacksheep]

That 97 IOT Phantom beat-up was the funniest parade thing I've seen since the Vulcan fly-over at Scampton for the formation of Strike Command. :}

[Cyberhacker]

Or it would have been if we had got the right church and wedding...........

Which reminds me of the (in)famous B2 fly-pasts of Blackbushe Airfield, intended for nearby Farnborough in 2004

[Green Flash]

Adriatic helo base, new years eve, flypast over the Mess, with flares. 30 seconds out and the locals turn a quiet Croatian seaside town into Berlin, 1944. Every man and his Kalashnikov sends a full clip into the sky, Chinny does an eye-watering 180 and hides behind the island until the full metal rain stops falling. :uhoh:

[Wander00]

Aah, flypasts. Flew in a 56 JP Graduation Flypast practice at Cranditz with ISTR George Etches, then as a baby pilot on 360 authorised for a flypast again at Cranditz, as an ex student, but most amusing was last December at Pte de Grave for 75th Anniversary of the "Cockleshell Heroes" raid. Four hundred odd people, veterans, French who had been children at the time, relatives of those on the raid, French and UK dignitaries, etc. Prominent the Colonel who is CO at the Armee de l'Air flying school at Cognac, who is looking increasingly concerned. Speeches are getting under way, and no sign of flypast listed in the programme. Suddenly as one of the VIPs is making his (long, so must have been French) speech 2 Epsilon trainers appear straining every rivet. Grimace from Colonel. Clearly no a/g comms. Epsilons disappear to rear. Speech continues. Suddenly the Epsilons reappear, lower and even faster. Speaker pauses, lets aeroplanes disappear, then continues as though nothing had interrupted him. Fantastic event though. Very moving.

[dctyke]

Highlights for me at RTS was Jaguar doing a perfectly timed fly past over the wrong parade ground, to be fair Haltons two parade grounds were not that far apart. The Chinook that came over with the loadmaster sat on the ramp waving to one and all and the privately owned Spitfire that came over dead on time, then over again, and again.

[Crromwellman]

Reminds me of the year when I believe the French were doing a flypast at the Lord mayor's Show in London and the problem of how to get the flypast and the General Salute to coincide because comms difficulties prevented alerting the parade commander by radio. The solution: the Lord Mayor was briefed and doffed his hat when the formation was x seconds out. When the parade commander saw the Mayor doff his hat, he ordered the "General Salute." Worked like a box of birds. Remember the KISS principle.

[Wander00]

Bet either LM was ex service or a former CO of HAC (I have a name in mind) or the Under Sheriff was a former RAF Gp Capt, Admin Branch. ( I have a name for him too)

[NutLoose]

DW with the then new Chinook doing an arrival at what was 38 group HQ Upavon, we heard him coming as he swept up the valley at the bottom of the airfield then cranked it around the HQ building at low level... Upsetting a few lovies.


Old collegue of mine honouring his mate agrees to scatter his ashes over his home county watched by the family, Side window opened and ashes duly dispatched, friend has other ideas and returns to aircraft covering ex collegue from head to foot and giving him a good mouthful to boot. Delays taxying back in to try and remove said friend from clothes before meeting the family again.

[Raikum]

Old collegue of mine honouring his mate agrees to scatter his ashes over his home county watched by the family, Side window opened and ashes duly dispatched, friend has other ideas and returns to aircraft covering ex collegue from head to foot and giving him a good mouthful to boot. Delays taxying back in to try and remove said friend from clothes before meeting the family again.

The same thing happened on the BBMF Lancaster one day. I'm sure some of the deceased remains there to this day as the inside was coated. On another occasion, I recall at Northolt, the ashes had become sodden-I forget how-and dried out to form, unbeknowst to the crew, a cannon ball which when launched down the flare shoot did a passable imitation of 'Upkeep'.
Sorry for the thread drift...!

[wub]

A well-timed but rather low flypast

[Herod]

A well-timed but rather low flypast

As Mr Punch would say; "That's the way to do it". Lovely pic.

[The Oberon]

As Mr Punch would say; "That's the way to do it". Lovely pic.

That's the badger, I've been looking for that one since the thread started.