NCA Engine Fire 29th Mar 07L HKG

[spleener]

https://www.aeroinside.com/item/11243/nippon-cargo-b748-at-hong-kong-on-mar-29th-2018-engine-fire-on-short-final

[TurningFinalRWY36]

Geeze. How many times did atc fail to understand. Anyone hear it

[A3301FD]

The crunch is in the final statement...investigation to be done by CAD... :ugh:

[TurningFinalRWY36]

The audacity of the controllers to suggest they didn't have a problem

[turbine_ranger]

The report seems biased and poorly written. I'd be surprised if the ATC in HK had any issue understanding English.

Saw the same article on another website, the comments there might shed some light. Just Google "Nippon Cargo engine fire". Some mentioned that the crew did not clarify the nature of their emergency by using the term "fire" until the third radio call.

[Jnr380]

If it's off script, they won't understand. Probably the supervisor (non local) had to take over

[gulliBell]

All it takes to get their attention is to preface the radio call with the magic word....we all know what....said 3 times.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

Yes I agree but it should take a genius to figure out what is happening when engine fire is said

[gulliBell]

Yes I agree but it should take a genius to figure out what is happening when engine fire is said

Quite often people hear what they expect to hear without comprehending what was actually said. Saying the magic word breaks the expectation and gets their full attention.

[CCA]

ATC recording must be out there?

[Airbubba]

Geeze. How many times did atc fail to understand. Anyone hear it

ATC recording must be out there?

Sounds fine and professional to me. Maybe missed the original fire call by NCA but quickly clarified the situation and had an appropriate fire crew response and inspection before continued taxi.

Another day at the office, good job. :ok:

The excitement starts as the B-748F is clearing 07L at A7 at about 6:20 into this liveatc.net clip:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/vhhh/VHHH-Twr-North-Mar-29-2018-0430Z.mp3

[turbine_ranger]

Quite often people hear what they expect to hear without comprehending what was actually said. Saying the magic word breaks the expectation and gets their full attention.

You're absolutely right. I've flown with many guys that are hesitant about using the M word. ATC is constantly dealing with multiple aircraft at a time, they don't have the time nor the interest to assess the situation for you, unless you clarify the nature of emergency. If you just said terms like "engine fire" or simply "emergency", they would at least get an idea of what to expect next and plan accordingly. Some guys like to get technical with ATC, saying things like "we have a warning message", "we're only showing two green" or "master caution". Not all controllers are pilots, even in the English-speaking world, they wouldn't understand know what you need until you officially declare an emergency. But many pilots are conservative about using it, even in bad situations.

I'm not saying that's what happened in this situation, but I've seen the incidents before where guys are not assertive with ATC. Although it's possible that the HK ATC was not on full alert about the situation, looking at how the news report is written, it almost seems like the writer is faulting the ATC. And at the end he states "While the emergency was in progress and emergency services were attending to the aircraft at the turn off tower kept runway 07L open, a number of aircraft landed." It makes a big difference if the aircraft was actually clear of the runway, or if it was still at the high-speed turn off. I'm certain that the tower would not keep the runway open unless the aircraft was totally clear of the runway. However, it would be a smart thing to at least inspect the runway for debris before clearing the next inbound aircraft.

I guess the only way to get a clear picture of the whole incident is to hear the actual ATC recording, and an official report of the investigation.

[Jnr380]

What makes you assume all supervisors are not Chinese?

Experience coupled with speaking to ATC supervisors

[Scoreboard]

Listened to the tape seemed fine to me.....the first thing nippon said was they had to stop. Nothing of fire but when ATC repeated directions only then Nippon said they had a fire. After that, it took a while for Nippon to respond to ATC challenges of declaring emergency and fire services queries....ATC cleared EVA to land and directed further exit to avoid Nippon.

Finally Nippon answered ATC and said yeah request TAxi and wanted to continue on their merry way since checklist put fire out - fire out-fire no more....nothing wrong....dumb asses. ATC made them stay put while fire services already been called for by tower to check them out.

From listening to it seems Nippon distracted by doing checklist but not much other thought into anything else....ATC seemed to right on top of it.

[turbine_ranger]

What makes you assume all supervisors are not Chinese?

Some of them are most likely Chinese who speak with a more western accent (those who studied or grew up overseas who don't have a local accent). People can't tell if a person is Asian just by listening on the radio. I think when he said "non-local", it's not really meant to be ethnic specific, it's more towards the controller's language background or accent. A person can be "non-local Chinese" as well.