Warplanes of the Second World War - William Green

[Heathrow Harry]

I have vols 1-10 but it looks as if the series stopped with Vol 10 Bombers Germany

Does anyone know if he ever finished the series ? Missing the UK and USA leaves a big hole in what was/is a handy-dandy set of reference books.............. :(:(

[Bruggen 130]

I have 1-10, the UK is in Vol-2 and USA in Vol-4 :)

[Heathrow Harry]

Fighters 1-4 Complete

Flying Boats 5

Floatplanes 6

Bombers 7-10 stops at Germany .................

[Haraka]

H.H. No that series did not go beyond Vol 10. Jack Bruce was running a parallel series for WW1 and got up to Vol 4 (Fighters), Vol 5 was announced but I don't think it ever came out.
According to Jack at the time, the book series was becoming uneconomical for Macdonalds to continue . A shame as they were a good handy reference.

[ericferret]

Vol 5 was printed l have copy. I have all 5 plus the 10 ww2. Pity the series was abandoned.

[Heathrow Harry]

I wonder if he ever finished the writing|? If so it might be possible to find some way of publishing them...........

I have all 10 but checking Google today they're all available from different sources (in varying conditions) but shop around - prices vary enormously - in the USA they are very high indeed

[Haraka]

ericferret . You are right of course! I've just realised I do have it off the shelf at the minute for modelling a Morane Parasol.
I was getting confused with the WW2 series , since in the end paper of this volume ( WW1 Vol5) is a reference to Bill Green's War Planes of the Second World War :
" In preparation:
Volumes 11-12 Bombers and Reconnaissance Aircraft (Gt.Britain to Italy)

Followed by other volumes dealing with the remaining combat aircraft in alphabetical order of the countries."

These were the ones of the WW2 series that didn't appear of course.

The WW1 Vol5 back dust jacket also states with reference to that series:

"Subsequent volumes will deal with fighter aircraft of other nations,followed by additional volumes on bombers, reconnaissance aircraft,seaplanes and flying boats,and miscellaneous types."

[Brian W May]

Wow, had those as a kid, but long gone with family break-ups various!

Great series and compulsive reading as a kid.

[Heathrow Harry]

You think they'd have stretched to Vol 11 GB & Italy wouldn't you.........

[Bruggen 130]

I never realised that the Bombers are missing, Doh LOL

[George K Lee]

So it was economics.... I had combined Christmas and birthday presents to secure the first ten volumes so I was not a happy bunny when I realized that there were to be no more. They were 15/- apiece, I think, which was quite steep given their page count and small format.

[Heathrow Harry]

but packed with info ....quite how he did so much research is beyond me - in the pre-internet age as well

My only gripe was /is he spends almost as much space on documenting a version that maybe was a single copy as he did on the versions that were produced in the hundreds

[Haraka]

but packed with info ....quite how he did so much research is beyond me - in the pre-internet age as well

My only gripe was /is he spends almost as much space on documenting a version that maybe was a single copy as he did on the versions that were produced in the hundreds

True, but do remember that he had also written the earlier ( and more expensive) "Famous Fighters/Famous Bombers of the Second World War" books,also published by Macdonalds.

[Tengah Type]

William Green was also resposible for The Observer's Book of Aircraft series published by Frederick Warne.

My collection has most of the prints & reprints from the initial issue in 1952 up the 1991/2 issue. Does anybody know if there were any more issues? I had a standing order at a book shop who told me at the time that it was the final one.

[Haraka]

Tengah Type.
Although 1952 is commonly accepted as the first edition, ( the first by Green and Pollinger) it was not . A clue is in the Preface opening line ..: This new edition of The Observers Book of Aircraft
Before this and also published by Frederic Warne was an original in 1942 with a revised edition in 1949 by Joseph Lawrence in the common size in which he states "This edition is almost new book........"
Then the November 1952 edition is subsequently adopted as the first edition and all goes logically up to the "Eighth (1960) edition :January 1960.
Then one year later we have the Tenth edition of January 1961. I have not seen a ninth edition. The series then runs on with annual editions up to the last edition I have ,which is the fortieth edition in 1992 dubbed "1992/93" on the cover. Although I never saw any since I gather that a German edition might have continued the line ...

[Tengah Type]

Haraka

Likewise no Ninth edition and missing the Final(?) edition.

However I do have a four edition set of " Aircraft Identification friend or foe? "
Revised edition, produced by " The Aeroplane " magazine in Dec 1940 to Jul 1941.It is in a similar format, with photographs and silhouettes.

It includes the Heinkel He 113 " which has shown itself to be faster and much more manoeuvrable than the Me 109, but has been shot down by Hurricanes and Spitfires ".

[Haraka]

Haraka

Likewise no Ninth edition and missing the Final(?) edition.

However I do have a four edition set of " Aircraft Identification friend or foe? "
Revised edition, produced by " The Aeroplane " magazine in Dec 1940 to Jul 1941.It is in a similar format, with photographs and silhouettes.

It includes the Heinkel He 113 " which has shown itself to be faster and much more manoeuvrable than the Me 109, but has been shot down by Hurricanes and Spitfires ".
I think you have hit upon an element of continuity there as the 1949 "Observers " pays tribute to Aeroplane for illustrations and "the outline sketches showing them from three different angles".
The He 113 saga is officially explained, although I have chatted with one BoB pilot who swore he engaged one off Northern England. His is one of a number of accounts. I do wonder sometimes about possible semi-official operational evaluation, but there is no firm evidence.
However:
"Absence of evidence does not necessarily indicate evidence of absence" :)

[Haraka]

May I add, now re reading my 1949 edition that,as a curio it has some merit. As a source of reference however it is worse than useless. Perhaps as a result of WW2 restrictions both illustrations and 3 Views are way out of date.Hump backed P-47s, early Mustangs,Flying boat Catalinas, Mk1 Halifaxes etc.etc. What did strike me was the erroneous plan view of the Lockheed Shooting Star with a lovely wing with only L/E sweepback. As faithfully copied with the Dinky toy model of my childhood!!
Incidentally,on a technicality,the 1949 edition was the first Observers "Aeroplanes": the earlier editions being dubbed "Airplanes" ( what???!!!!)
When you read the later volumes of "Aircraft of the Fighting Powers" a few of these errors seem to be irregular to say the least .

[Heathrow Harry]

I have a (much-loved) Dumpy Book of Air Forces of the World from 1957 - quite a bit of useful text especially on early missiles........

[Haraka]

I think we are getting into serious thread drift here. Like H.H. I still have my Dumpy books from the 50's along with many others. Perhaps somebody might like to start discussing influential Aviation books from childhood as a History and Nostalgia thread?

[polecat2]

I think William Green's last work was "Aircraft of the Third Reich 1933-45 Vol.1" published by Aerospace around 2010. It is a comprehensive and impressive book covering more than just warplanes of the Luftwaffe. I was looking forward to the planned volumes 2 and 3 but Aerospace Publishing ran into difficulties and they never materialised.
Much like his "Aircraft of the Second World War" series I suppose.

[FAR CU]

William Green used to write in ink to his correspondents on aerograms with a minute cursive hand . As I used as a lad in Canberra gather piles of hand outs from the RAAF PRO office in the old Commonwealth office block called east block, and forward them to WG, my archive contains several of these original keepsakes. As he was such a prodigious researcher and author, and so notable in his field, is there any detailed biographical record? Or even informative obituary?

(Never met the man, understandably, but one day in Alice Springs Chris Wren came on board my Queenair, and sat in the co-pilot's seat all the way to Victoria River Downs, where he changed planes for Darwin and thence BOAC home to London. A more interesting and delightful character you'd not meet in a month of Sundays.)

[Heathrow Harry]

Good suggestion Haraka - I'll ask the Mods to move it.........

[Haraka]

Thanks H.H. Now in a better place so we can thread drift a bit. Polecat2 noted that "I think William Green's last work was "Aircraft of the Third Reich 1933-45 Vol.1"
Of course the original effort was his "Warplanes of the Third Reich" first published ( by Macdonald ) in 1970.This A4 tome of nearly 700 pages was for me at the time a base reference on German warplanes 1933-45: my 1972 edition cost a tenner. As Polecat2 has noted this was expanded, e.g.to include captured aircraft (why?) and hopefully updated with corrections c.2010. I had a glimmer of interest in the Aerospace effort until I saw the pricing, IIRC around 100 pounds for the three volume set. In the meantime of course Putnams had come out with Smith and Kay's "German Aircraft of the Second World War" (smaller format but c750p.p.) My edition was 20 pounds in 1985 . To be honest I felt Aerospace had misjudged the market, especially considering the impact of the Internet.
Going back to a more innocent era(1950's) the Dumpy books were cheap, basic and for a small boy a great stimulant to discovering aviation and aeroplanes. Also the quality of language and explanation was high. For another example, the "Boys Book of Flight" (published for "Flight" in 1957) shows a level of required literacy that pushed readers to expand their comprehension of aeronautical matters.

[terrain safe]

A few years ago I bought a copy of "Warplanes of the Third Reich" secondhand from the SA river company for about £25. It was the fourth edition and a bit saggy but a lovely book with lots of great information all in one place. Unexpectedly however, it was also signed by Mr Green as well. A real bonus, and one of my more treasured books.

[bobward]

Back to the original subject.
Thanks all, I've spent years scouring old bookshops and aviation museums looking for WW2 Vol 11 and WW1 Vol 5 onwards, now to find they were never written. As you've said, the existing volumes hold a lot of information in a small space.

Of late I've noticed that second hand copies of Aircraft of the Fighting Powers, and a lot of the Putnam books are becoming more common. Could this be that the original owners have passed on and their treasured volumes are now on the market again?

[Heathrow Harry]

sadly correct.

There's a window in art and books when the original buyers travel on and the time they become collectable.......