Falklands Air Bridge

[Wrathmonk]

I know it's the Daily Mail

Drunken British soldiers arrested for ?brawling in their underwear | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5560893/Drunken-British-soldiers-arrested-brawling-underwear.html)

but surely this bit cannot be correct....can it?

It was unable to take off again until yesterday morning, with The Sun reporting it was further delayed after crew forgot to refuel once the fault had been fixed.

[Idle Reverse]

Slight thread drift but who provided the best air bridge prior to the RAF taking it back in house with the Voyager ? My vote goes to the Air Atlanta 747 . . they always had the extra capacity for cargo / goodies and never had to offload the much needed mail bags. Loads of room on board too �� ��

[Onceapilot]

Maybe not the whole story, and written for outrage. However, the Military are always vulnerable to bad behaviour when groups of servicemen have a hooley. Troops on flights can be difficult to control. These days, I would expect the penalties for causing bad press like this to attract heavy sentences. :=

OAP

[Brian W May]

Come back Timmy, all is forgiven :cool:

[Door Slider]

RAF taking it back in house with the Voyager

The RAF Voyager does not operate the Air Bridge. Air Tanker operate it with a civilian registered A330 and civilian cabin crew, although the aircraft does form one one the 9 that are leased to the MoD.

[[email protected]]

Idle Reverse - my vote goes to Air Seychelles - much better than many of the others.

As for the squaddies - not the greatest surprise that they get p*ssed and kick off when they find themselves somewhere much nicer than their intended destination. I have seen some pretty p*ss poor behaviour from the RIC (resident infantry coy) inbound and outbound to the FI over the years.

[Heathrow Harry]

All they're doing is reflecting the behavior of their mates at home heading to Benidorm etc

[mopardave]

Where's the discipline....were there no officers or SNCO's around? Mind you, why am I surprised.....from what my son told me about the Army Foundation College in Harrogate when he passed through.....and we know what happened about the bullying case recently! I remember returning from Lionheart....OK, not quite the same as a 6 month "jolly" to the FI's.....on a BA Tristar.....you could've heard a pin drop (if you discounted the RB211's!).....everyone was dog tired and asleep! Seriously, what's going on?? It must be me? :ugh:

[Heathrow Harry]

Double the time of the posting for everyone on the aircraft - that'll get their attention

[BEagle]

mopardave and Heathrow Harry, I agree entirely!

RIC behaviour at MPA was often very poor indeed - except when the Ghurkas had the commitment. Smart, disciplined and very good soldiers.

I was told that one RIC bunch came back to the Deathstar after a session out in the field and caused mayhem in the NAAFI - so the very next day they were sent out for another week in the field. I never knew if it was true, but it certainly should have been!

[mopardave]

mopardave and Heathrow Harry, I agree entirely!

RIC behaviour at MPA was often very poor indeed - except when the Ghurkas had the commitment. Smart, disciplined and very good soldiers.

I was told that one RIC bunch came back to the Deathstar after a session out in the field and caused mayhem in the NAAFI - so the very next day they were sent out for another week in the field. I never knew if it was true, but it certainly should have been!
OK Beagle.....you were an officer. Why does it appear to be difficult to impose discipline? Where did it all go wrong? MD junior described the AFC Harrogate as a zoo....and the NCO's were non existent at night! Actually, I'm inclined to blame the SNCO's. I know retention is a problem but examples should be made of these idiots. They give the other, fine young men and women in the forces such a bad name. I'd have died of shame if I'd been holidaying in that resort!! I spend a fair amount of time in Ripon....in fairness, I've never seen any misbehaviour from the R.E. based there.
Rant over....I'm off to the coast!:ugh:

[Al-bert]

:ok:mopardave and Heathrow Harry, I agree entirely!

RIC behaviour at MPA was often very poor indeed - except when the Ghurkas had the commitment. Smart, disciplined and very good soldiers.

I was told that one RIC bunch came back to the Deathstar after a session out in the field and caused mayhem in the NAAFI - so the very next day they were sent out for another week in the field. I never knew if it was true, but it certainly should have been!

True, I was there although I can't remember which regt - they were sent back to the ISO's on Onion range - their Sgt Mjr (a good chap) was very un-amused. :=

Seconded the Gurkhas comment :ok:

[WB981]

You are all quick to blame the Army but one of those arrested was actually an RAF Flt Lt!!.

[AberDabber]

You are all quick to blame the Army but one of those arrested was actually an RAF Flt Lt!!.
Something RAF PR did well to keep out of the spotlight. Nice one.

[JW411]

Thank God someone was keeping the side up.

[gr4techie]

Do RAFAT go u/s more than civvie air?
I can't recall any airline having to divert and put me up in a hotel. Only on one occasion have I experienced them "crewing out" on a see-off but had a spare jet within minutes.

We've always joked how long rafat takes to get you on det. We've had some ridiculous check-in times so many hours before the flight, that you wouldn't get with civair.
On the plus side, the Gateway at Brize has better transit rooms than the permanent junior ranks accom at Lossie !

[Warmtoast]

I fully support the laudatory comments re. Gurkhas (Above).
In 1983 I think it was, I was in Fleet (NE Hampshire) when the town turned out to welcome the Gurkhas on their return from the Falklands and took these photos as they paraded through town on their way to their barracks in nearby Church Crookham.
A three-Chinook flypast from Odiham welcomed them back too.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Fleet%20Gurkhas/Gurkhas%20Return%20Parade%201a_1280x853_zpsllvw4a3z.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Fleet%20Gurkhas/Gurkhas%20Return%20Parade%202a_853x960_zpspxrojjbr.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Fleet%20Gurkhas/Gurkhas%20Return%20Parade%203a_1280x853_zpsyzjw58yd.jpg

[wiggy]

Do RAFAT go u/s more than civvie air?

TBH don't know the stats, but given the equipment involved here would hope rates wouldn't be grossly different.

I can't recall any airline having to divert and put me up in a hotel

Oh, it happens, certainly in Long Haul and no doubt in occasions in Short haul.....

Difference I suspect (i.e. I am guessing) between "us" civvies and this case in particular is that in the civvy world you may have the option of dispersing/rerouting some of your pax using your other flights departing that day to the same destination or use other carriers flight operating out of the same airport, and quite possibly do this within hours...

I suspect ( but happily open to correction) those weren't options that were available in this case, so I'd guess recovery options would be fix the aircraft, or get another another (e.g. company back up or a wet lease).....any of which might take time.

[mymatetcm]

Whilst ASI not available for Voyager operations currently, Cape Verde is the route for the air-bridge and has been for a fair while now.
With regards the all inclusive mentioned the crews have specific non alcoholic wrist bands issued.(at greater expense !!!)

[PPRuNeUser0211]

I've certainly been delayed on long haul by 12 hours for a u/s aircraft. As is pointed out above, the difference is usually the ability to source a spare. In this case the spare was found but it went u/s as well! Finally crewed into the original jet, got told it was still u/s, got off, got it fixed and got back on again. A right kefuffle, but sadly it was the Newark departure lounge, not a 5 star hotel. 15USD for food (thanks United) and 400USD voucher compensation for arriving on a different day to the one I was meant to!

[pr00ne]

Door slider,

Isn’t the Falklands trooper one of the five out of the total of 14 that are leased to the MoD of which 9 are in full tanker fit and 5 are sub let out to commercial operators and form a surge reserve?

[pr00ne]

The infantry fighting with others or amongst themselves has been going on since we first had infantry and is hardly a new phenomenon, so less of this “where did it all go wrong?” and “what has happened to standards” clap trap.

[Al-bert]

The infantry fighting with others or amongst themselves has been going on since we first had infantry and is hardly a new phenomenon, so less of this “where did it all go wrong?” and “what has happened to standards” clap trap.

AH, military tradition then, good, carry on! :ok::}

[diginagain]

The infantry fighting with others or amongst themselves has been going on since we first had infantry and is hardly a new phenomenon, so less of this “where did it all go wrong?” and “what has happened to standards” clap trap.

They were Royal Engineers.

[goudie]

Ok to brawl in the NAAFI or outside local pub (cos that’s what they do) but being hosted in a five star hotel with families around is a different matter. And who on earth allowed them unlimited access to free booze, asking for trouble!
Engineers are still trained soldiers.

[pr00ne]

Infantry, Royal Engineers, Para's, Royal Marines, RAF Regiment, same applies to 'em all, 'teeth arms' weren't they once called? They have always done this, no matter what surroundings. I once saw some Gurkhas kick off in a very nice pub in Hampshire, and even in Bruggen we used to have the resident Rock Sqn kick off from time to time.

Not sure about military tradition, just a tedious repetition of events down through the ages.

[vascodegama]

proone

Door Slider is correct; the numbers you quote were the original set up since modified to take circumstances into account. The ac is a 330 not a Voyager.

[hjd10]

mopardave and Heathrow Harry, I agree entirely!

RIC behaviour at MPA was often very poor indeed - except when the Ghurkas had the commitment. Smart, disciplined and very good soldiers.

I was told that one RIC bunch came back to the Deathstar after a session out in the field and caused mayhem in the NAAFI - so the very next day they were sent out for another week in the field. I never knew if it was true, but it certainly should have been!

Yes the Ghurkas are true gents. Unlike the RIC during my time at MPA, I was lucky enough to end up with 12 knife marks that came through to the inside of the door, this was from a RHF personnel who was pi$$ed walking back through my corridor. There was a commotion in the corridor and I opened my door to have a look, I had to force it closed as an idiot dressed in full RHF dress proceeded to try and attack me with his Sgian-dubh... I should have phoned the real police however sadly he was acquitted of all charges. Nothing surprises me after that.

[mopardave]

The infantry fighting with others or amongst themselves has been going on since we first had infantry and is hardly a new phenomenon, so less of this “where did it all go wrong?” and “what has happened to standards” clap trap.
Oh, well that's alright then.

[Two's in]

Whoever was OIC Det needs farkin with a pineapple. Putting a bunch of sappers anywhere near free booze only has one outcome if left unsupervised. It's not the boorish behavior that's so tedious, it's inflicting it on unsuspecting and undeserving members of the public who have paid good money for their own vacation of a lifetime. Watching Percy Pongo be a jackass after 2 shandies is not a pleasant vacation pastime. If OIC Det hasn't got the smart's to make some SNCO's responsible for troop conduct they don't deserve to be OIC of anything.

[DON T]

Spent two glorious weeks at the Melia Tortuga in Cape Verde last November. My concern about the reporting is that they managed to get so much drink. When I was there it took ages to get served and everything comes in small plastic glasses.

With regards to delays, when we returned our Thomson flight from Sal diverted to Gran Canaria. We were originally told that they couldn’t get enough fuel at Sal, Cape Verde. The fuel is kept on a tanker moored in the sea near the airport and the pumps had broken. When we arrived in Gran Canaria the crew ran out of hours. Overnight hotel in Gran Canaria no free booze and arrived in Uk 24 hours late. Still in dispute with Thomson.

A quick check of Tripadviser shows no reports of the incident even from people who have returned as recently as the 30 March.

[rolling20]

Once had a chap who was joining our civvy organisation and he had previously served in an elite army unit. Passed all the interviews and the job was his, just the 'come and meet the team drinks'. At which after a few, he wanted to fight everybody. Consequently never joined us, which was a pity as he was an intelligent and nice bloke.

[Wyler]

I spent 2 years in the Falklands on an accompanied tour (and a further 2 X 4 month unaccompanied). The RIC, with the exception already mentioned, were always the root and cause of most problems. From drunkenness to theft to assault. As to their SNCOs?, all cut from the same cloth. The Officers were somewhat disconnected and, I have to say, pretty ineffectual.
They were transported in Company strength and were always subject to strict discipline in transit. However, off the leash at MPA they were a pain in the arse.
However, it must be remembered that they are not recruited for their social skills or knowledge of what fork goes with which dish. So it really should not come as any surprise that, given half a chance, they will kick off. Is that not what we actually want?
As to bad behaviour in general, you could go into any of the so called clubs at MPA on a Thursday or Friday night and see some pretty questionable behaviour from all ranks.
As to the broader question of military discipline I agree that standards have dropped. I work at a Phase 2 trg unit and, as told to me by a very senior officer not that long ago, we have to adapt to the society of today. The intake today, at all levels, suffers from a lack of mental fortitude and often struggles to cope with sustained pressure and criticism of any sort. However, they do have lots and lots of paper qualifications.....................

[mopardave]

I spent 2 years in the Falklands on an accompanied tour (and a further 2 X 4 month unaccompanied). The RIC, with the exception already mentioned, were always the root and cause of most problems. From drunkenness to theft to assault. As to their SNCOs?, all cut from the same cloth. The Officers were somewhat disconnected and, I have to say, pretty ineffectual.
They were transported in Company strength and were always subject to strict discipline in transit. However, off the leash at MPA they were a pain in the arse.
However, it must be remembered that they are not recruited for their social skills or knowledge of what fork goes with which dish. So it really should not come as any surprise that, given half a chance, they will kick off. Is that not what we actually want?
As to bad behaviour in general, you could go into any of the so called clubs at MPA on a Thursday or Friday night and see some pretty questionable behaviour from all ranks.
As to the broader question of military discipline I agree that standards have dropped. I work at a Phase 2 trg unit and, as told to me by a very senior officer not that long ago, we have to adapt to the society of today. The intake today, at all levels, suffers from a lack of mental fortitude and often struggles to cope with sustained pressure and criticism of any sort. However, they do have lots and lots of paper qualifications.....................Wyler....actually, that's very succinct. Yes, we need young people with spirit when it comes to the gruesome business of war....but if this reporting is anything like accurate, I'd have been embarrassed to be British had I been in this resort. For the record, and for what it's worth, MD junior was a Sapper. He always considered himself to be a uniformed representative for his country. If it's accurate....where the hell were the nco's?

[Tengah Type]

DON T says in his third sentance that he can find no adverse comments on Tripadvisor about the incident. I would have thought, with the current penchant for claiming COM-PEN-SAYSHUN for real or invented woes, there would have been a flood. So, possibly the Press have blown up a minor incident out of proportion.

An other problem with operations like the airbridge is the lack of replacement crews if the Duty Crew run out of hours after a delay.

And there is the possibility of a weather delay with that destination!

[BEagle]

I was once flying a northbound VC10 from ASI back to Brize with a pax load of pongos who'd been in the field in Gaberone for quite a while.

Timing was such that a southbound passenger TriStar and a northbound TriStar freighter were due within 30 min of eachother at around our planned departure time. ASI Ops' solution was to keep us and our pax on the ground until both TriStars had gone. To add to the fun, the Duty Mover booted off one of our RAFP (who'd looked after the aircraft at Gaberone) for a 'priority passenger' of her own. I asked whether he could go on the northbound freighter, to which she replied "He can go on the Herc"...

So I suggested that we should get out of their hair and leave before the TriStars. "What? - We'd never get all your passengers through in time". "Why can't you take them direct to the aircraft from their accommodation?", I asked. "Only if you personally vouch for them", came the reply.

So a word with the truly excellent SNCO in charge of his troops. Could he ensure that they'd all be ready, sober and fit to travel first thing in the morning, so that we could get them home 3 hours earlier than ASI Ops' solution? "Yes, SAH! No problem - they won't have more than two tins each tonight and they'll be on parade for the MT sharpish - SAH!".

And lo, that's what happened! Old school SNCOs are truly worth their weight in platinum

As for our RAFP? Well, after departure I spoke to the inbound passenger TriStar and asked if he could have a word with the captain of the northbound freighter to find a seat. Which is what happened - and he actually got home ahead of us having had a very enjoyable trip on the freighter, thanks to the 216 mates.

I love it when a plan comes together!

[Pontius Navigator]

And someone asked about the officers. Ignoring the mention of a flt Lt, we were taught to keep well clear of drinking ORs lest we got hit thus converting D&D into the more serious offence of striking an officer. Also being labelled as stupid for getting hit.

We were to say RAFP Sgt or Guard Commander sort it while standing bravely at a distance. Maybe Pongos are different, but BEagle did mention ineffectual.

[Al-bert]

We were to say RAFP Sgt or Guard Commander sort it

on one of my several two month dets (previously 4 month) to MPA post 1988 it was forbidden for non RIC to enter the Bronx. The RAFP had had a police dog killed when they tried to exert some control, allegedly.

[BEagle]

From The Independent in 1997:

A brawl between rival units of British troops stationed in the Falkland Islands left one soldier with a broken ankle, and prompted tough disciplinary action from the garrison commander, it emerged yesterday.

The battle, between 150 men from the Irish Guards and the Royal Engineers posted to the bleak military garrison known as the Death Star, ended in a "bloodbath", witnesses said.

Many casualties required medical treatment and several were taken to hospital with injuries ranging from broken noses to concussion. One soldier, who suffered a severely broken ankle, had to be flown back to the Haslar military hospital in Gosport, Hampshire, for urgent treatment.

The fight, which broke out on Christmas Day last year, but which has only just come to light, "all started as a traditional bunfight at lunch", a witness said. "But someone threw a potato and a can was thrown back. Then all hell broke loose. "There were pools of blood on the floor. The military police were summoned and went in with dogs to break it up."

Brigadier Ian Campbell, the British commander at the garrison, immediately imposed tough disciplinary measures to clamp down on violent behaviour. Limits have been placed on the opening hours of bars on the Mount Pleasant base, and weekend training exercises have been instigated. It is understood that at least one soldier was jailed for 28 days and others received shorter sentences.

Details of the incident underlined the long-standing morale problem of troops sent to the Falklands on four-month postings. Hundreds of soldiers and airmen, deprived of female company and unwilling to venture far from the mass of drab green buildings that make up the British base, often fall prey to a ghetto-mentality. Sources said petty squabbles assumed enormous significance and traditional loyalties became magnified.

The maze of bars, clubs, messes and accommodation blocks are linked by a bleak, two-and-a-half-mile, concrete-floored corridor. Accommodation Block 38 has been dubbed "The Bronx" because of its reputation for fighting and violent crime.

Senior officers freely admit their biggest headache is not maintaining a viable military deterrent to attack by Argentine forces, but how to maintain the men's morale 8,000 miles from home.

The traditional four-month posting is viewed by many troops as equivalent to a spell in prison. Pride of place often goes to "gozzomie" (goes home) calendars so that the days to their return to Britain can be marked off.

But the Ministry of Defence stressed it could not tolerate the type of "misbehaviour" seen at Mount Pleasant, which it viewed as a "very serious matter".

[WilliumMate]

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.



Was always thus.

:)

[cafesolo]

It's Tommy this and Tommy that and chuck 'im out,the brute
But it's "Thank you,Mr.Atkins" when the guns begin to shoot. R.Kipling.

[MAINJAFAD]

From The Independent in 1997:

Yep, pretty much like that in early October 1988 when I did my first stop over at the Bronx en route to one of the West Falkland FIADGE Sites. The other Cpl in the Room that I was sharing with before we got the Eric in the morning had to barricade the unlockable door to our room due to the riot going on in the corridor between the RIC and the RE. The best story that we heard about 38 Facility before reaching the place was about the guy who was mugged while walking back to his room. He goes to the 38 Facility duty admin office to find the Army Duty Staff sharing out the takings from their little "Mugging" patrol. The last tour I did there in 2010 was notable for CBFFI kicking the RIC OC off the Island for his naked dancing on a table in the Sgt Mess with the majority of his SNCO's.

[The Oberon]

OK, I give up, RIC?? Google points me at the Rifles but also the Royal Irish Constabulary.

[Ed Winchester]

RIC = Resident Infantry Company

[Heathrow Harry]

PEDANT ALERT!!!! :}:}:}:}:}

Falklands Islands Roulement Infantry Company (F.I.R.I.C)

as in "Rolling"

Some Sir Humphrey using their Classical Education I think

[Navaleye]

Sling them in jail for 3 months then discharge them.

Having been the Cape Verde islands twice, I can tell you how hot and bug ridden it is. Three months in a local non aircon jail should be enough.

[unclenelli]

A few years ago.....
An Airman got arrested in Stanley for "Drunk & Disorderly". During the course of his arrest he managed to get snot up the arm of the arresting FIPol, so was further arrested for "Assault on Police". The local Beak was rumoured to be fed up with BritMil and out for blood. His Boss and 1RO both ended up buying suits to represent him in court and he got away with just D&D & a substantial fine.

------------------------------------

Had he ended up with a custodial (as was rumoured the Beak was after) we googled his possible outcome:

Instant Admin Discharge for being unable to fulfil his duties through self-inflicted incarceration at HMP
£1111 AirFare back to BZN (based on half of £2222 return) + Emigration Tax £25
Walk back to BZN Main gate as civvies are not insured on MT.....or
...~£3000 AirFare via LAN Chile to Punto Arenas and Madrid to LHR/LGW + Emigration Tax + Excess Baggage Fees x 3! (but I guess he would probably ditch all Military kit at the earliest opportunity to save weight!!)
Taxi/Bus/Train/Mates/Hitch back to home unit
Rigmarole of getting into Home Unit without ID
Cost of rehoming family in Civvy Street (if necessary)
Job Hunting


The Maths is too much for me, but it's BLOODY EXPENSIVE for a 1-night piss-up!!!!!



I bumped into him a couple of years later at the A4 Hub on the A1.

[alfred_the_great]

Most, if not all, of the “bars” have been shut, and the booze been incredibly tightly controlled.

The RIC about 18 months ago lasted less than two weeks in the accommodation before spending the next 6+ weeks in the field. In mild irony, the tipping point was a young SAC being hit by a squaddie (utterly unprovoked).

MPA is truly a different place.

[AR1]

In 1986 my bridge broke down twice. We ended up locked in the compound at Ascension for 6 hours. The boys (Kings regt) drank the vending machines dry and were all burnt to a crisp. Shambles and thank God I was remote for 4 months. The visiting small Rebro teams out in the hills be they Kings or A&S Highlanders were generally fine. Collectively. Nightmare.

[scarecrow450]

My Cpl in the tower was crapping his self as he was ord Cpl and he wasn't looking forward to closing 38 Facility NAFFI at night, he walked in a little after 2230 said right lads drink up please time to lock up, to his shock they finished their drinks and said goodnight Corperal, no trouble at all. He said we should treat him with the same respect at work ! W told him several times to err go and travel !!