ATR wing damage in flight

[reverserunlocked]

Not sure what happened here as the description isn’t very helpful.

Either way, it doesn’t look good.

https://storage.googleapis.com/stateless-newsinflight-com/2018/03/3bb9aeff-screen-shot-2018-03-27-at-9.10.53-am.png

Center WingBox of Hop! Air France ATR-42, damaged in mid-air. ? News In Flight (http://newsinflight.com/2018/03/27/center-wingbox-of-hop-air-france-atr-42-damaged-in-mid-air/)

[DaveReidUK]

Not sure what happened here as the description isn’t very helpful.

Indeed it isn't. It's clearly not what most people would understand by a "centre wing box".

I'd be interested to see a photo showing the left MLG. The BEA are investiigating the incident.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
Seems that ATSs are a bit fragile, some will remember the structural failure at the top of the fin in a Virgin Australia aircraft.
As it apparently did not happen on landing, ????, doesn't seem likely it was a bird strike. Is it just my eyes, or does it look like part of that fairing failed in tension.
Tootle pip!!

[andrasz]

Other reports say MLG door separated and hit the composite fairing. Looks dramatic but no structural damage from what I can see. Must have caused quite some noise in the cabin though...


Seems that ATSs are a bit fragile...


Many moons ago I did an evaluation of various makes/models and I was surprised to learn in the process that the ATR72 has the lowest structural weight per seat of ANY post-war airliner, which is a key selling point in high airport/ATC fee regions (which are MTOW driven).

[EDMJ]

Why the panic?

That's neither wing, fuselage nor structural damage, but surely a non-structural fairing which - unusually - has been impacted by something.

Hardly cause for alarm for the aircraft type as such.

[twochai]

["http://https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=208217"]

The Flight Radar trace seems to show a sudden speed excursion to 340 Knots, coincident with a sudden altitude loss from 10K' to 7.5K'.

[DaveReidUK]

Why the panic?

That's neither wing, fuselage nor structural damage, but surely a non-structural fairing which - unusually - has been impacted by something.

Hardly cause for alarm for the aircraft type as such.

If it turns out to have been a departing MLG door that did the impacting, then a cause for alarm is exactly what it is, and it's fortunate that it was only secondary structure that was damaged.

Aircraft have been lost under similar circumstances: Report on the accident to BAe HS 748, G-ASPL at Nailstone, Leicestershire on 26 June 1981 (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5422f42ced915d13740004bf/5-1983_G-ASPL.pdf)

[rotornut]

https://www.rt.com/news/422453-paris-aurillac-flight-incident/

[jugofpropwash]

https://www.rt.com/news/422453-paris-aurillac-flight-incident/

According to that article, the pilot either didn't know or claimed not to know what caused the noise. If a door came loose, shouldn't there have been some sort of indication in the cockpit?

[Bend alot]

That indication was or should have been the intercom from the Cabin Crew.


"Did you hear that Captain"


Other than that NO.

[piperpa46]

As farvas I remember the main gear Doors a fixed to the landing gear and does not have a separate actuator. It is secured to the airframe with pianohinges. If one piano hinge fails the door is free to fall outward and I’m sure it will be ripped completely of if the happens.
As others have mentioned it damaged some non structural composite panels.

[JammedStab]

["http://https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=208217"]

The Flight Radar trace seems to show a sudden speed excursion to 340 Knots, coincident with a sudden altitude loss from 10K' to 7.5K'.

Hmm 340 knots. One might put the gear down at such a speed to slow down and then....lose a gear door.

Wonder what the full story is.

[glad rag]

"Air France"...


So what is reflecting the flash?

[ZFT]

Hmm 340 knots. One might put the gear down at such a speed to slow down and then....lose a gear door.

Wonder what the full story is.

340 knts in an ATR. Right.

[JammedStab]

["http://https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=208217"]

The Flight Radar trace seems to show a sudden speed excursion to 340 Knots, coincident with a sudden altitude loss from 10K' to 7.5K'.

Hmm 340 knots. One might put the gear down at such a speed to slow down and then....lose a gear door.

Wonder what the full story is.

340 knts in an ATR. Right.

Is this your best guess at the story? Hmmm, high speed on the radar(could be winds affecting the speed), sudden descent, gear door mysteriously flies off. Something unusual happened.

[DaveReidUK]

VMO in an ATR at 10,000' is 250 KIAS. VLO is 170 KIAS. Either the 340 KIAS is erroneous

The 340 kts is groundspeed, not IAS.

[TelsBoy]

The 340 kts is groundspeed, not IAS.


I was about to point out the same thing...


It's obviously been clouted by something but despite rumours of an MLG door departing the airframe there's no other pictures/anything more official of any airframe parts missing other than the damage shown above. My first thought was a part of a prop blade had detatched, given the look and position of the damage.

[FIRESYSOK]

‘Ding!’ ‘MLG DOOOR FELL OFF’

[Pilot DAR]

I can't imagine a gear door going that far up before it went aft, there's more to the story....

[TURIN]

http://airlinergallery.nl/atr42airfrance.jpg

Can a MLG door get up there and cause that sort of damage ?

[ATC Watcher]

According a local newspaper from Aurillac the BEA confirmed it was the left main gear door that caused the damage :https://www.lamontagne.fr/aurillac/transport/faits-divers/2018/03/27/une-trappe-du-train-d-atterrissage-a-l-origine-du-choc-sur-le-vol-paris-aurillac_12789810.html

There is also in another article some photos ( unfortunately of the wrong side !) here :https://www.lamontagne.fr/aurillac/faits-divers/cantal/2018/03/27/vol-paris-aurillac-les-enqueteurs-du-bea-examinent-l-avion-endommage_12789523.html

[Machdiamond]

Was wondering the same thing. Here is a theory: if the link between the main gear and the door fails, the door will hinge full up. Then at failure point it may have gained enough momentum to pretty much go up vertically.

BEA has three photos and one shows scrape marks on the fuselage seemingly originating from the landing gear door location:

https://twitter.com/BEA_Aero/status/978686205763182592

[lomapaseo]

So what is the condition of the tyres? They certainly have enough energy and conditional trajectory to launch the gear door upwards against windage from aircraft speed.

[F-16GUY]

Can a MLG door get up there and cause that sort of damage ?

Stuff does not always separate in the expected way...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZmoVXW-l2M

[Machdiamond]

According to the newspaper linked above, the tyres appear undamaged. Passengers reported the event as taking place as the gear was lowered.

I have done some CFD/6DOF trajectory analysis of gear doors parting ways with the airframe. These trajectories can be really surprising due to the amount of lift available relative to their weight, and the way and order the hinges fail.

[lomapaseo]

I have done some CFD/6DOF trajectory analysis of gear doors parting ways with the airframe. These trajectories can be really surprising due to the amount of lift available relative to their weight, and the way and order the hinges fail.

OK, now what kind of relative velocities exist in a windstream in the time it takes to travel-2-3 ft in such a case?

[FlightDetent]

Did anyone confirm it was LG panel/door from the same aircraft? :E

[PURPLE PITOT]

So, the BEA investigating an incident with an Air France ATR. That will be pilot error then. Most likely an American pilot in another aircraft!:O:O:O

[lomapaseo]

So, the BEA investigating an incident with an Air France ATR. That will be pilot error then. Most likely an American pilot in another aircraft!

That's too general. More specifically it will be from a plane operated by today's UAL

[Onceapilot]

The 340 kts is groundspeed, not IAS.

Nor, TAS!

OAP

[DaveReidUK]

Nor, TAS!

Well only in still air.

But I think we all knew that. :O