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Tankertrashnav
27th Mar 2018, 00:36
Apparently the death toll in the terrible fire at the shopping complex in Kemerovo in Siberia has now reached 64. First of all, notwithstanding the entirely justified diplomatic moves which have been made against Russia, I trust that a message of sympathy has been sent on this country's behalf. Our quarrel is with the Russian state - not with ordinary men women and children

I am deeply depressed to hear that once again fire examiners have discovered that emergency exits had been locked. I cant say how many times over the year when there have been fires with major loss of life, say in nightclubs etc, exits have been found to have been blocked

When I was an RAF fire officer I found that on more than one occasion fire exits had been blocked in buildings where I was carrying out annual fire inspections. One one occasion I had a stand-up (verbal) fight with the OC of a flight who seemed to think that security considerations trumped fire safety. I refused to sign off the inspection and the matter was resolved at a higher level.

Dont wait. Have a look at your own house or place of work today. Do you know how to get out in case of fire? Do you know where the fire exits are, and are they clear? Personally there are a few "rabbit warren" shops which I will not enter as I think they are fire traps. If your workplace is like that - get something done about it.

flash8
27th Mar 2018, 00:57
Arriving in Moscow 1999... and being young went clubbing.... was dancing and suddenly people started hitting my back... turned out the "candles" around the dance floor had caught my shirt alight! My first night here as well!

My employer had an architect come over for some meetings and I took him to a shopping centre in Moscow and a few clubs... he immediately told me the "new" shopping centre was a deathtrap (no emergency lighting, signage for exits + all sorts of things that would never occur to me) and the clubs were even worse (one staircase to a basement club with at least a hundred or so people in it with no other exits!).

Always been wary of Health and Safety here as to be honest it doesn't really exist... at least not in how we think of it in the West.

Quality of the Turkish construction here as well (almost everything it seems).... worrying... Traansval Park comes to mind (many kids killed in waterpark when the roof caved in).

So this isn't too surprising, still shocking though, though if the building just "collapsed" without fire... well.... that wouldn't surprise me either.

RatherBeFlying
27th Mar 2018, 02:06
Lots of people, one narrow staircase in and out, stuff stored in fire exit corridors:mad:

There's a tragedy every five years or so in North America.

When your sprogs reach clubbing age, it's time for the operable fire exit talk:=

I was working late in a downtown office building and found the exit doors locked. Very shortly after the security guard let himself in with his evening meal in a bag.

I phoned the fire department the next day who promptly inspected and issued work orders.

Wherever you are working, make very sure the fire exits are operable. You don't want to find an inoperable exit at the bottom of a stairwell with several score people behind you.

A proper building management will immediately get on the PA when a fire alarm sounds and announce the fire department has been called. If you don't hear that, call the fire department yourself. You have to balance the risk of an inoperable exit against the apparent hazard. But if the fire department has been called, they will get the exits open – with circular saws if necessary:E

obgraham
27th Mar 2018, 02:52
It astounds me that every Walmart and Costco has fancy ‘alarmed exit doors’ but we dont seem able to install these at clubs snd theaters.

vapilot2004
27th Mar 2018, 10:17
Also, as we've just moved to savings time, the rule is to change your smoke alarm batteries.

Any time I read about a tragedy involving Russia or Russians, a little bit of my mind cannot help but wonder if any enemies of Putin (or his allies) were killed as a result.

TLDNMCL
27th Mar 2018, 10:33
[QUOTE=Tankertrashnav;10098215 Do you know how to get out in case of fire? Do you know where the fire exits are, and are they clear?[/QUOTE]

To this day I remember my first ever RAF fire safety lecture - it was about awareness of escape routes above all else, then prevention, then fighting if required. If something lasts in the memory that long (40 years) - it had an impact. As valid today as it ever was. Well said TTN.

Mr Mac
27th Mar 2018, 10:41
This is very reminiscent of the Manchester Woolworth's fire which was the driver for much of the fire regulations enacted in the UK afterwards and in particular locking of Fire Doors.

Kind regards
Mr Mac

glad rag
27th Mar 2018, 11:00
" I trust that a message of sympathy has been sent on this country's behalf. Our quarrel is with the Russian state - not with ordinary men women and children"

Indeed, one would also hope that it would also be progmulgated by the authorities there but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one sadly.

Pontius Navigator
27th Mar 2018, 11:32
It astounds me that every Walmart and Costco has fancy ‘alarmed exit doors’ but we dont seem able to install these at clubs snd theaters.

The clubbing problem may be 'lack of wall space' ugly double doors, 'prettified with decorations etc'.

Shame that Fire Notices don't have a Fire Safety contact number like security alarms and CCTV systems have.

old,not bold
27th Mar 2018, 12:35
While recalling lessons learned, let's remember the people (7? I forget) who died from being overcooked/suffocated
in a lift in the Dusseldorf airport terminal fire having used a the lift while unaware of the fire alarm.

chevvron
27th Mar 2018, 14:48
Also, as we've just moved to savings time, the rule is to change your smoke alarm batteries.

Any time I read about a tragedy involving Russia or Russians, a little bit of my mind cannot help but wonder if any enemies of Putin (or his allies) were killed as a result.

Tragic as it may be, I have to speculate if maybe Putin or one of his cronies might have had the fire started deliberately in order for an 'investigation' to 'reveal' it was secret agents from the UK who started it as a means of retaliation for Salisbury.(No I know we would never stoop as low as that but Putin certainly would)
External views of the shopping centre show it to be similar to one I've used in Poland; was it a 'standard' iron curtain design I wonder?

barry lloyd
27th Mar 2018, 16:24
Tankertrashnav:

Your points are well made. My father was a fireman and when I began visiting establishments where music and ladies were to be found, he made me promise that I when I went into such places, the first thing I would do was check the safest way out. I don't go to such places nowadays, but if I do go to somewhere unfamiliar, I do have a good look around.

The whole business of fires and exits being blocked is an on-going scandal in many parts of the world. My father attended a fire in an up-market department store in Liverpool in 1960 in which 11 people died. He did not speak about it for a long time, but he told me later that three of the bodies were found by the (locked) fire exits.

The history of fires in public buildings in Russia goes back along way. In 1977 a huge fire broke out in the Rossiya Hotel in Moscow. 42 people were killed and more than 50 badly injured. The problem was exacerbated by the fact that an inadequate number of fire exits had been fitted, so that the staff could keep an eye on the coming and going of the guests. The Rossiya was the largest hotel in the world at the time with 3000 rooms. It even had a prison inside the building.

The tragedy in Kemerovo will be deeply felt by Russians, particularly because of the number of children who have died. The Russian affinity with children is perhaps difficult for us in the west to fully appreciate, but they are seen very much as a blessing and however objectionable they may be to each other and outsiders, they always have a kind word for children. Even in Soviet times, детский мир (children's world) - a sort of 'Toys я Us' - was always one of the best-stocked shops in Moscow.

I have no doubt that the cause and effect of this tragedy will be of far more concern to the average Russian than privileged diplomats returning home.