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1515Blue
22nd Jul 2002, 22:52
we got into a discussion with some other guys yesterday about approach titles...
the approach title was "VOR DME/ LOC DME or ILS DME". what would be the proper way to interpret this?
is it a vor dme approach that can be flown using the loc dme when on final? can it be a simple vor dme approach? or must the vor be available for the loc dme or ils dme? i know you will still have to study the approach plate properly but just on the basis of the title what can be gleaned from it???

thanks

Tinstaafl
23rd Jul 2002, 00:59
It's 3 different approaches, all depicted on the one plate:

VOR/DME,

LOC/DME, &

ILS/DME

You must have the aids specified in the title ie VOR & DME or LOC & DME or ILS & DME, unless an alternative method is specified in the notes eg crossing radials for step-down altitudes.

MDA or DA/DH will be specified on the plate for each of the 3 approaches.

Capt Claret
23rd Jul 2002, 07:32
And when you brief the approach, don't start by saying, " XXX RWY 12 VOR/DME, LOC/DME, ILS/DME approach".

Just give the title of the approach you plan to fly, e.g. "XXX Rwy 12 ILS/DME"

OzExpat
23rd Jul 2002, 14:59
Not knowing the approach or the place it relates to, I'll simply offer an alternative thought. I've seen instances where an approach, usually in difficult terrain, starts with a lead-in or initial segment (pethaps with a reversal), that requires initial tracking by reference to the VOR, to a distance defined by DME. In the Intermediate segment and/or after the reversal, it is necessary to track via the LOC (LLZ?) to a specified DME distance, where GP intercept occurs for the ILS precision segment.

I'd hope there aren't too many procedures like that, but I can imagine it as a possibility. Just thought I'd throw it in for further contemplation. Might be easier to describe the procedure to which the title refers.

tired
23rd Jul 2002, 22:01
Ozexpat - that would then be titled "VOR/DME/ILS approach". Plenty of them in Africa, too.

And as Tinny says, all the aids specified in the title have to be avialable or you can't fly the approach. One approach I used to fly was entitled "2 NDB approach" - you had to be capable of receiving both NDBs simultaneously.

Capt Claret
24th Jul 2002, 07:45
Alice Springs ILS can be joined either from overhead the VOR or via the 15DME arc.

If joining from overhead the VOR, tracking is outbound on the 296 radial until commencing a procedure turn to reverse course and intercept the localizer.

The chart is entitled "ILS or ILS DME or LOC DME Rwy 12"

At a bare minimum one would need a VHF Nav(VOR & ILS capable) and Marker beacon receiver to fly the approach. If the aircraft is fitted with a DME and the Marker receive is U/S, one can fly the ILS/DME part of the approach. If the G/S or the G/S receiver is U/S, then one can fly the LOC/DME approach.

As the chart title does not include, in the example of Alice Springs, LOC (alone), one cannot fly a Localizer approach.

I can't think of an example of a combined VOR ILS chart in Australia. The Jepp chart numbering system usually numbers ILS & LOC approaches as 11 series, whereas VOR approaches are usually 13 series.