Time for seniors to support the juniors

[backtothegrindstone]

I’m new to PPrune, but I want to ask.

Is it time the senior pilots ( ARAPA ) start supporting the Junior pilots in this company ?
The training captains to give it up for the better of the pilots ( second officers ). Because as soon as ARAPA gets attacked and support is needed. I’m a SO and I’m an experienced one. So no I’m not some spiked hair SO as most of you refer to.

SO’s are clearly the losers with all the TB CC etc gong on. We at the bottle of the barrel when it comes to earnings and experience ( to leave this hell hole ) CX. Remember most SO’s don’t want anyone to loose anything to get a better deal but we are!!!!

So I his leadership comes from above and you older more “experience “ guys need to take the lead.
STOP training, get your friends to give it up and there leave slots or 10% pay increase ~ we all know they in it for themselves!!!!!

SHOULD WE HAVE A HIRNG BAN ?????? speak up before your contracts are on the voting block and you have pissed off to many spike hair kids

[Basil]

This 'spikey' thing:
Are they being rude about Chinese in general or just young guys who have their hair done in the current fashion?

[Shep69]

I might suggest you get out and get seniority elsewhere while you still have a chance and career time ahead of you.

Look at all that's happened and how people have responded selfishly in many senior cases. Allowing the divide and conquer and taking an 'it's all about me' position.

To be sure there are many who have NOT done this. But also many that have. As long as that happens things will get worse.

The past decades have seen an ever increasing chipping away at pay and benefits and worsening rostering. Not gonna get better unless management has an epiphany they will never have. They will have a mediocre not particularly productive work force with high costs to the company while individuals make less. Just the way it is.

With all the recent 'stuff' going on, how much ACTION have you seen ? If you're riding things out and staying, do what you need to do and be happy (and quit whining). The conditions you've seen are the conditions you'll get. Every day you spend here is wasted seniority elsewhere if you're looking at a long career in this business.

[Kitsune]

Just take a look at how the senior guys have responded EVERY time since the very first B scaler joined the company... I well remember the HKAOA presentation on B scales, and exactly the result of the ensuing vote...��

[Trafalgar]

Well, in defence none of us truly appreciated the malevolent nature of the new management that was beginning their destructive actions against our careers. Now however, no excuse. I resigned from training, and it's time for the rest of my colleagues to do so. Certainly, if CX hires anyone out of seniority for commands or bases, no trainer can in good conscience take part in training such individuals. Time to stand up guys/girls.

[GICASI2]

Well, in defence none of us truly appreciated the malevolent nature of the new management that was beginning their destructive actions against our careers. Now however, no excuse. I resigned from training, and it's time for the rest of my colleagues to do so. Certainly, if CX hires anyone out of seniority for commands or bases, no trainer can in good conscience take part in training such individuals. Time to stand up guys/girls.

Just like in ‘97 and ASL...

[OK4Wire]

We at the bottle of the barrel So true!

..more characters.

[LongTimeInCX]

Another first post management troll stirring the pot?

Or, if you are an 'experienced' SO, then:
•you missed out on spelling classes in school
•you both were, and remain, naive for taking the job
•you failed to comprehend what you were getting into
•you do not see it is actually those so called senior staff who have had their pay & COS cut because you joined on the cheap ass pay scale and COS that your moaning juvenile whiny 'experienced' seat warming ass is now complaining about.

Do us all a favour and leave.

[backtothegrindstone]

Another first post management troll stirring the pot?

Or, if you are an 'experienced' SO, then:
•you missed out on spelling classes in school
•you both were, and remain, naive for taking the job
•you failed to comprehend what you were getting into
•you do not see it is actually those so called senior staff who have had their pay & COS cut because you joined on the cheap ass pay scale and COS that your moaning juvenile whiny 'experienced' seat warming ass is now complaining about.

Do us all a favour and leave.

Wow so this is your reply to a SO when being asked for support ?
You attack his spelling? You must be a treat to fly with.
Let me warn you that if there is no support from the senior guys , in the future there will be no support from the junior guys.
The balls in your court. The next move is yours and your friends still in training.

And trust me I’m no management mole. I hate those pigs. I’m hoping some SO can sleep with some managers wife.

You guys better start pulling your weight and get on board.

[Trafalgar]

...I think most of them are planning on doing just that...

[Max Reheat]

Well, let's try this scenario...

Let's say the trainers all resign.
Within hours PCs and line checks start expiring... what is the Company going to do?

"They will be forced to the table!" I hear you all shout...

But what if they don't?...

What if they say, "Any pilot, who's PC expires, as a result of this action will immediately go onto half pay!"

How long will the CC TB last then I ask you?

The only thing this AOA has not done in the near quarter century I've been here is to put itself in the shoes of the adversary. The sooner the AOA does that, the sooner the pilots will make headway!

Get your heads out of your $&^*%es and see what's happening. It's the TB that is killing promotions, not training captains retaining their position?

[Trafalgar]

Oh please, please LET them do that !! You will see hundreds of pilots coincidentally coming down with the flu. What's missing in all these hypothetical's is the fact that most of the CX pilots have ALREADY reached their breaking point. If there was ever something to push them all over the edge immediately, that would be it. So go ahead AT, light that touch paper. And Max, if the TB is 'killing promotions' (as you put it), then you acknowledge that the company operation is being severely affected? And if that is the case, why would that not eventually force the management to negotiate properly? And if it doesn't, then NOTHING else has any hope of turning this ship around, in which case everyone might as well resign today. Btw, that is effectively starting to happen, on average one a day. It's over.

ps. what exactly is your strategy?

[CyberT]

Grindstone

You became a loser the day you joined CX. The history of industrial relations at this circus is out there for everyone to see. If you joined this lot post ASL or B Scales or 49ers then you deserve everything you get. To join this mob and demand that senior people endorse your mistake is just plain rude. You joined an already screwed up company, got trained, and now you want those trainers to resign. Get lost.

Your only option is to leave. There has never been a better time to leave CX.

(Please learn to spell before you post again.)

[cxorcist]

Max,

Where do I sign you up for ignoramus of the year award? 1/2 pay because my PC or line check expires. Where is that written?

If you are a T&Cer, you are the problem. Leverage unused is for kindergarteners. What if we all were trainers and all trained our much cheaper replacements, how long do you think any of us would have a job? Idiots, our trainers, every single one of them.

[reazasassain]

Me me me me me me me me me me me.

Every trainer still in training.

You are not doing any of us favours staying in training. PCs are not your problem, the airline is responsible for training. The CAD may have to intervene if they can not maintain PCs. Look what happened to Hong Kong express.

You are all preventing the necessary leverage required to resolve the issues. Go ahead and take up training again after the TB is lifted. Until then we need to stand United. No more reduction in manning, no more reduction in benifits, no more attack on our RPs, no more to attacks on our housing, NO MORE!!!!!

[TurningFinalRWY36]

TCs dont care, they still have housing, they don't get delayed upgrades, they get their overtime, they get to feel important

[The FUB]

Right, no one is mentioning the 5 Airbus new/promoted TCs. Or the previous Bus and 747 TCs. They are the problem. IF more senior STC/TC resign these newbies become the STDs/MGMt pilots. Oh wait they already have.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

Most of the juniors don't respect them anymore, pretend to like them to pass a check

[Oasis]

Tc’s and their ‘giving back’, thanks for nothing..

[Dilbert68]

Max,

Why don't you resign from training and stop being part of the problem? Half pay if your PC expires? What a joke! It is the companies responsibility to renew your PC and have a training department to do so.

[Soul planet]

https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/satirical-illustrations-gerhard-haderer-23-5ab38924b949d__700.jpg

[Trafalgar]

Inside the front cover of the "Swire Management Handbook".

[DropKnee]

Inside the front cover of the "Swire Management Handbook".

That is awesome!!

[cxorcist]

Grindstone

You became a loser the day you joined CX. The history of industrial relations at this circus is out there for everyone to see. If you joined this lot post ASL or B Scales or 49ers then you deserve everything you get. To join this mob and demand that senior people endorse your mistake is just plain rude. You joined an already screwed up company, got trained, and now you want those trainers to resign. Get lost.

Your only option is to leave. There has never been a better time to leave CX.

(Please learn to spell before you post again.)

From your post, I assume you, Cyber, are an ex-A scale trainer. So in short, you are the historical problem at CX. You didn’t stand up against ASL or B scales. Right? Did you even train these very same ASL and B scalers? You and your ilk are the shame of the global airline industry. All of its problems can be laid at the feet of people just like you. Union 101, never allow a B scale of any sort. CX 101, train your cheaper replacements. Idiots!!!

[crwkunt roll]

Their seniority is intact and they have BPP provisions (admitedly manipulated).Manipulated to the point where they have Buckley's of ever seeing one HK cent.
Precedent set.

Back to Grinder.........How about YOU collectively stand up for yourselves. 2 S/O long hauls should have been well and truly protested by your lot. It's sure piss!ng the seniors off too. You've only been here a relatively short time and seen nothing. This latest attack undermines everything your AOA (are you a member yet or still asking trainers if you should join???) has been fighting for with CC.

[westcoastcaptain]

Rather sad really, blaming everyone else for what has evolved.

I’ve been here for a while. It all started in April 1993 when the B scale new joiners said they were all willing to do the same job for less money. Then those who joined ASL said they would do it for even less money. More groups followed at even less pay. It continues even today, 25 years later.

Please don’t blame the groups that were already here for your decisions, it is no one’s fault but your own.

[broadband circuit]

2 S/O long hauls should have been well and truly protested by your lot

You mean by captains not using discretion after diverting from fog in HK?

F&%king unbelievable.... (The sad thing is that it's actually quite believable....)

[A350HK]

This 'spikey' thing:
Are they being rude about Chinese in general or just young guys who have their hair done in the current fashion?

Ha ha. I never knew spikes were still in fashion.

[Ben revoD]

September 2017

Dear Anna

I am a very very very important (indeed revered) training captain. I am livid, incensed, furious, incandescent at the cancellation ARAPA. I am soooo f*ck*ng angry.

For the absence of doubt I would like to assure you that, despite this severe direct attack on my COS, I intend to do f*ck all about it. Please continue to send out weekly updates telling me how wonderful I am.

Yours, Captain Figjam



December 2017

Dear Tom

I am a very important and adored STC. Your failure to pay me my 13th month has made me livid, incensed, furious, incandescent (again). I am so f*ck*ng angry that I have even made a couple of mildly hissy posts on Yammer. Let me take this opportunity to assure you that, despite this outrageous slight, I intend to do absolutely f*ck all about it.

Please ask Anna to send out weekly updates telling me how wonderful I am.

Yours, Captain Figjam


Now don't get me started on this SAA business...........

[ANTIPHOLUS]

Now now Ben. You’re not being particularly POLITE there, are you.

[Steve the Pirate]

Now now Ben. You’re not being particularly POLITE there, are you.

Ouch, cutting there ANTIPHOLUS! I wonder, though, whether you should have chosen Dromio for your nom de plume, as they were the servants - unless of course you are one of the masters? How will we ever know?

STP

[ANTIPHOLUS]

Ah, the benefits of a classical education...STP...at least the name of the play is appropriate..

[Steve the Pirate]

Ah, the benefits of a classical education...STP...at least the name of the play is appropriate..

It truly is.... :sad:

STP