Contract pilots at CX

[jumbobelle]

SAA talking to CX and Turkish about 3-5 year contracts for FOs and possibly CNs on 330 and 747 fleets. Schooling and provident fund provided (no mention of housing, funnily).And light blue touch paper....

[Trafalgar]

Dear Anna. Please go ahead and throw that match on the pool of petrol lying in front of you. The conflagration you will start will not be put out until nearly every current pilot has left. Go ahead, make my day....

[DropKnee]

I called this a few months ago. You guys let this slide. Than your wasting your money on a union.

[cxorcist]

Dear Anna. Please go ahead and throw that match on the pool of petrol lying in front of you. The conflagration you will start will not be put out until nearly every current pilot has left. Go ahead, make my day....

No kidding! How stupid AT and her GMs must think our SOs are. First, they basically double their time to JFO with 2 SO crews and DEFOs who cut the line into the right seats of the very same HK base and fleets. Meanwhile, inflation eats away at the pittance that is HKPA and the SOs are gaining no flying time of any value. Now, they want to hire contract pilots en masse off the bottom of other struggling carriers’ seniority lists. If this doesn’t scream, LEAVE, then nothing will. It’s time to wake up and smell the smoldering carcass that is TTW!

[Trafalgar]

There never was a TTW (other than for management bonuses). The airline has entered a death spiral, and it will be interesting to see when the final realisation of that fact finally sinks into the mindset of the majority of crew. Most have been making plans to leave, and i now suspect that the recent rejection of further bases, the admission by AT that they aren't increasing pay or housing for the junior pilots (competetive package!) and the general complete lack of acknowledgement of our concerns means that the exodus is now unstoppable. The long story of CX is nearing it's end, and nothing but ashes will remain. Tragic.

[Trafalgar]

The big issue is DEC. If that happens, then the charade that this is a 'career' airline will be over (if it already isn't...). Let's see what absurdity AT comes up with next, but if it's that, then truly this place will be in flames.

[Brokeidiot]

Would love to see Turkish pass a line check.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

so just because someone doesn't come from your neck of the woods they are automatically a bad pilot?

[Dragon Pacific]

I've seen a CX flyer for a SAA endorsed pilot recruitment roadshow at Airways Park next week 28/29th but can't figure out how to post it here. They are apparently laying off 10% of their pilots.

[Avinthenews]

https://image.ibb.co/m0f1X7/IMG_20180324_WA0003.jpg" alt="IMG_20180324_WA0003" border="0">
This one!!!

[bringbackthe80s]

Honestly guys, you need to take it way easier.
There's always been these types of crew exchange between companies, it's not exactly contract pilots recruited by an agency from the free market. It's happened for decades in most (even legacy) airlines.
So relax, enjoy your old contracts (for the lucky ones) and don't believe everything you hear.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

Honestly guys, you need to take it way easier.
There's always been these types of crew exchange between companies, it's not exactly contract pilots recruited by an agency from the free market. It's happened for decades in most (even legacy) airlines.
So relax, enjoy your old contracts (for the lucky ones) and don't believe everything you hear.

So we should accept a crew change when it will negatively affect the career prospects of current crew at CX in 2 ways. 1: delayed upgrade times for current SOs. 2: recruiting on to the A330 therefore eventually the A350 whilst current crew are dying on the 747

[betpump5]

How the AOA handles this will be a defining moment. Certainly in terms of its future.

Before we even discuss possible contract/temp bases in JNB or even a sympathetic commuting contract for those potentially at the bottom of a 3000 seniority list, are we really going to allow them to join the pax fleet whilst our Long suffering freighter guys languish?

[rhinodriver]

The big issue is DEC. If that happens, then the charade that this is a 'career' airline will be over (if it already isn't...). Let's see what absurdity AT comes up with next, but if it's that, then truly this place will be in flames.

They’ve already done DEC when Oasis tanked and a few dragon freighter guys came to the CX freighter back around 2007/8. But it was the freighter so nobody cared.... Care now?

[Kid Dynamite]

Send us your tired, your pissed off, your huddled masses yearning to breathe hk’s fresh air. The grass couldn’t be greener and the air couldn’t be cleaner.

[Threethirty]

Excellent summary CR!

[Trafalgar]

Soooo, Curtain. After reading that, I can only conclude that AT has just been a bit misunderstood, and the company really has our best interests at heart. There is NO doubt that this is a career airline. Come one, come all. (seriously, that was epic, and lays bare just how awful, manipulative, venal, malicious and destructive our management are. Hard to believe it's come to this place, considering the wonderful employer I joined back in the 80's. Tragedy). Why is anyone with any other opportunity considering tying their career hopes and those of their families to a management just described by your brilliant post? Anyone who can leave had better do so as quickly as they can.

[DropKnee]

This is pilot and union busting in its purest form.
Any group who allows this to happen to them doomed.
I think the smart ones realize the situation and are leaving. The group that’s too old to go. Best of luck you make it out. The others, well you know the saying. You can’t help stupid.

[BlunderBus]

https://image.ibb.co/m0f1X7/IMG_20180324_WA0003.jpg" alt="IMG_20180324_WA0003" border="0">
This one!!!


Cracks me up they’d rather crap on the currently employed pilots and let them leave than fix any of the issues!!!
I know... let’s hire a bunch of ‘new’ guys and piss them off too...
Pretty soon it will be the last ditch bitch of a job for the world of unemployed flyers.
How can they honestly think anyone would come here in their 30’s and 40’s and be able to afford to live??

[Trafalgar]

Misses the point sadly. AT and RH have determined to turn CX into the employer of choice for the worlds pilot 'refugees'. Effectively, it will become a satellite airline of SAA, and due to the circumstances in their home country, pilots from there will grit their teeth and put up with the bs that will come their way from this management. Pilots from the suspect countries will always at least give CX a try, as their options back home are no better. That is what this airline now represents, a home for those who's home countries are unlivable. If YOU come from a country that has a stable society, and good employers, you had better get yourself on those seniority lists as soon as possible. That is the one Achilles heel of CX, they can hire from any country they want, thereby undermining everyone already employed here. At least back in Aus/NZ/Can/US/UK etc, they can only hire from within their own countries, which limits their airlines from abusing you in ways CX finds perfectly acceptable to subject you to. Get out now, the writing is on the wall. CX is done as a career employer.

[Cpt. Underpants]

CR, well summarized. That is so clear and the perspective obvious when it's all on one page.
Take note, wannabes.
This place is a toxic wasteland that will absolutely drain your enthusiasm and rob your soul.

[oriental flyer]

Before all of you deride the pilots of SAA trying to get out . Just read what is happening in SA right now , land grabs without compensation , farm murders almost daily .violent crime is out of control , and to top it all SAA is trying to shrink its way to profitability . If you ever believe that’s a workable solution.
It has been mis-managed by totally incompetent management for years , draw any parallels that you want.
I can understand why any pilot from SA offered a job would probably take it despite the conditions especially if they hold a SA passport with limited options of being able to emigrate to another country

[Trafalgar]

Nobody is 'deriding' the SA pilots. I personally like the South Africans very much. The real issue is that our management is using them, and other geographically unfortunate persons to undermine all the other pilots at CX. Further, there is strong rumour that she is about to offer a 'commuting contract' to them, before any such thing is offered to the long-suffering pilots already employed here. This airline is done as far as a career is concerned. Well done to our greedy management in destroying one of the worlds great airlines. :D

[Trafalgar]

The most important aspect to realise about this issue is this: CX can hire from anywhere in the world they choose. There will always be some unfortunates who they will hire, to expressly undermine and cripple those pilots already employed. You will NEVER have a period of industrial peace in CX (I've experienced that very situation for over 20+ yrs now). You will always find your meager conditions under attack, and there will never be a positive outcome. Conflict and stress is all you can count on if you stay at CX. If you can leave, do so asap. CX is finished.

[cxorcist]

Before all of you deride the pilots of SAA trying to get out . Just read what is happening in SA right now , land grabs without compensation , farm murders almost daily .violent crime is out of control , and to top it all SAA is trying to shrink its way to profitability . If you ever believe that’s a workable solution.
It has been mis-managed by totally incompetent management for years , draw any parallels that you want.
I can understand why any pilot from SA offered a job would probably take it despite the conditions especially if they hold a SA passport with limited options of being able to emigrate to another country

Maybe white SAs should be offered refugee asylum in safer, Western countries.

[Trafalgar]

AT is doing this for purely humanitarian purposes... :rolleyes:

[Captain Dart]

Some senior Australian politicians have postulated bringing threatened white South African farmers into the country (a welcome change to some of the trash being allowed to immigrate into Aus under current policy).

Predictably, the lefties are squealing 'racist' and the South African government is denying that there is a problem.

I personally would welcome any new South African to fly with me in Cathay Pacific. As long as he or she joins as a Second Officer, on the bottom of the seniority list.

[Shep69]

Those are some excellent points CR.

The great problem with joining the rat race is even if you win you're still a rat.

[DropKnee]

Before all of you deride the pilots of SAA trying to get out . Just read what is happening in SA right now , land grabs without compensation , farm murders almost daily .violent crime is out of control , and to top it all SAA is trying to shrink its way to profitability . If you ever believe that’s a workable solution.
It has been mis-managed by totally incompetent management for years , draw any parallels that you want.
I can understand why any pilot from SA offered a job would probably take it despite the conditions especially if they hold a SA passport with limited options of being able to emigrate to another country

There are always going to be people with a sad story. Not my problem. If your country is FUBAR. Than have a revolution. Don’t come and **** on my door step. Not welcomed at all.
If you don’t see this as a problem? Than your the problem.

[10yearsSO]

Not that Im not calling foul myself with the SAA contracts, but just as food for thought, would the majority of SOs be kicking and screaming this quickly if it was any other airline other than SAA who got offered the contracts?

[rhinodriver]

No. The "DECs" were hired just like everyone else, at the bottom of the list, on the prevailing contract at the time: Join as an SO, or a freighter FO on a base for 3 yrs, back when the freighter operation was only semi-integrated back into CX (pax 747 captains didn't have to fly the freighters unless they wanted to, and then approx 2007 all 747 captains had to also fly freighter if they wanted a temporary basing, and then in 2008 everybody had to, period).

But, back then, as new hires on Day 1, anyone could apply to become a freighter-only captain on super crappy freighter pay on a base, which soon came to include the new HKG freighter base, without housing but with reduced 24K allowance for captains. Thanks, idiots. Back then, anyone could change base to anywhere almost anytime in any country, and even be based at one place but have their roster based somewhere else, anywhere else (secret private deals, thanks, idiots), completely playing into the company's plan to skip all basing, seniority and contractual agreements while keeping FOs in HKG waiting for commands while all the idiots filled the 747 captain positions at lower pay and no housing. Thanks, idiots, for showing the company how much we're worth.

So, in effect, they were DECs, but they were not DEC, just freighter-only DECs on different, lower pay on the crappiest deal with the worst rosters and a long, long wait -forever for most, as it turned out - to get off the freighter. Most are still waiting hopelessly. They joined as FOs and then filled the endless available freighter-only captain positions that nobody else wanted.

Then, in 2008, the last of the ASL pilots were integrated into CX at the bottom of the seniority list (freighter-only captains forever, not enough years til retirement to get "pax" seniority to keep flying freighters anyways since no type changes here) but still on the non-existent crappy pay scale from before. By 2010, the last of the freighter captain fiasco finally came to an end with the last of those command courses, bases like SYD and YVR were overloaded with freigher-only captains (and little to no 747 freighter flights - so now they complain about too much PT they got in exchange for voluntarily taking crappy jobs at crappy pay to get bases ahead of more senior crew all while screwing HKG-based FO's out of an earlier promotion on full HKG terms including housing, thanks idiots), and freighter-only command courses were no longer offered on the bases or anywhere on the lower freighter terms, and then all commands were the same from then on, all HKG-based and anyone on a base had to come back to HKG for command unless they waited forever for a captain slot on a base (uhm, that only happened a bit on the 747, 6-7 yrs later or so, I think). Got that?
.

Those aren’t the DEC’s I’m talking about. At least they were hired as FO’s. I’m talking about actual DEC’s from Oasis Airlines when they went under, the few from Dragon who were offered the chance to come across directly, and way back when ASL was formed. All Captains right off the street flying Cathay aircraft. But yes, they were put at the bottom of the list. Just another example of how seniority means nothing here.

[Dan Winterland]

Seems like the feeding frenzy for the soon to be laid off SAA pilots is beginning. How many will be attracted to HK remains to be seen.

Be Different & Join Us - Job Details - South Africa Flight Crew Roadshow 2018 (http://bedifferent.flyscoot.com/cw/en/job/492959/south-africa-flight-crew-roadshow-2018)

[Freehills]

There are always going to be people with a sad story. Not my problem. If your country is FUBAR. Than have a revolution. Don’t come and **** on my door step. Not welcomed at all.
If you don’t see this as a problem? Than your the problem.

LOL. So no non HK passport holders should ever be given jobs in HK?

[oriental flyer]

Dropknee, you have a cold heart . I wasn’t suggesting that the SAA pilots come as DEC . They should join at the bottom of the seniority list as SO’s like everyone else . All I was pointing out is that with a South African passport they have very limited options and so a job with CX is a chance to live somewhere without the fear of being shot for nothing more than a cell phone .

Having said that if I were an SAA Capt and Scoot offered me a DEC and a chance to live in Singapore that would be my first choice

[A3301FD]

If I was a caucasian pilot, with a family, in SA...I would be grasping at every chance I could to get my family out. There are numerous problems for whites in SA at the moment, they will increase and get worse. That is a definite fact.

If you want to vent anger about this (contract pilot recruitment), it is to CX you should direct it...

As for the frequent jibes directed at South Africans on various threads...take a minute to walk in their shoes.

[Threethirty]

Yes I appreciate that but Emirates etc were around before SAA announced a 10% reduction in size...

[chards]

Too true Curtain, my favourite is when guys who were happy to take an early freighter command are now whining at the latest letter to management because they just want be recognised as a Cathay Pilot not a freighter pilot.

[BlunderBus]

There are multiple options for the SAA guys at the moment not just Hong Kong. If you choose to take a job slap bang in the middle of a major industrial dispute and directly affect the efforts of those engaged in it then shouldn’t you expect to take some heat??? It’s not about nationality or personalities .The SA boys are great guys. It’s about how the management choose to treat their current staff which is to say .. if you won’t eat crap we’ll find some unfortunates desperate enough who will .

[Shep69]

Well, alls I can say is I hope they have a gander here, elsewhere, and talk to a few folks before making the leap and realize they are being used. And what has happened to the different factions over the years; other than some sweetheart deals for individuals (and I can't see how someone could live with themselves after doing something like this--dollars are fleeting but integrity lasts forever) all the groups have seen things decline significantly. The BEST that has happened is some places have broken even--kinda--and even this is due more to laws where they are than anything else.

A man who marries his mistress leaves a vacancy in that position. So it's probably wise to fully understand what one is getting into before sacrificing precious years (and seniority) to a cause that will not love you back.

[Ghost_Rider737]

the contract FOs will be paid on CX FO1 scale.

[Samsonite]

Tired of hearing about these poor SAA crew that are gonna join and do too our crew what is happening to them in their home country!!! They are willing to step over our crew and careers for themselves which is not required when airline companies from Western Countries are offering people with a Pilot License, visas/immigration and jobs.

[Trafalgar]

A few comments based on some of the previous posts. Most of us DO care about the plight of the 747 pilots. What is being done to them is a disgrace, and frankly it isn't a job that is sustainable. As for the SA pilots, they are welcome, on the bottom of our seniority list, same terms. However, if they are offered a 'sweetheart' deal, then they must expect some serious pushback. As for "who's to blame" for the current situation (including the company floating this trial balloon with the SA pilots), we are to blame. We can't expect people to fight our fight for us, especially when they aren't even working here yet. The 747 pilots need to 'demonstrate' to the company that they won't be abused (fill in the blank on that one...) and the rest of us must make it clear that CC and the TB will continue and even strengthen until this management comes to their senses. WE have to push back, and it's time that happened. My own gripe is towards my former C and T members. Gents/ladies, it's time to do the right thing. We can't be seen to be supporting the actions of management with training of what is evidently replacement pilots (I am referring to the SA issue in particular). To date, three of my colleagues have assured me that if the company hires them on anything other than bottom of seniority positions, or with a special 'commuting' option, they will resign. The rest of you now need to resolve to do the same. I might add to all the rest of you the fact that many of the TC and TCC pilots have refused ugrade to STC. That is at a significant cost, so please don't berate them for simply being in the training dept. However, the time has come I believe to now take that next step and resign altogether. I expect nothing less (other than the 'Prancing Carrot' who will probably volunteer to train all the SA pilots himself!).

[DropKnee]

LOL. So no non HK passport holders should ever be given jobs in HK?
Ideally that would be the case. But the HKG system fails to produce people for jobs in aviation.
What we are talking about in this situation is people being hired out of seniority for jobs that people on the seniority list are capable of performing. It’s called union busting. If we allow that to happen?? We have no one to blame for our continuing decreasing package than ourselves.
When is the hiring ban going to be announced? When is the HKAOA finally going to say enough and walk? Probably the day after the company has trained their replacements.

[capster]

If I understand correctly, HKAOA members are in contract compliance, with a training ban in force , yet CX has been hiring DEFO and they have received training for the last year or so?

Has the HKAOA put out a request for mutual assistance via IFALPA, like the Air Mauritius Pilot body did recently? Not that I am aware of.

The HKAOA website seems silent on this matter, and without their guidance I would think it difficult for a potential employee to make an informed and ethical decision.

[cxorcist]

If I understand correctly, HKAOA members are in contract compliance, with a training ban in force , yet CX has been hiring DEFO and they have received training for the last year or so?

Has the HKAOA put out a request for mutual assistance via IFALPA, like the Air Mauritius Pilot body did recently? Not that I am aware of.

The HKAOA website seems silent on this matter, and without their guidance I would think it difficult for a potential employee to make an informed and ethical decision.

Now there’s a logical post! HKAOA needs to grow a pair, like yesterday. DEFO in HK should have been banned straight away, but better late than never. DEFO counter acts the TB, why wouldn’t it be banned? As for trainers, well, you all know where I stand... It’s past time guys!

[DropKnee]

Dropknee, you have a cold heart . I wasn’t suggesting that the SAA pilots come as DEC . They should join at the bottom of the seniority list as SO’s like everyone else . All I was pointing out is that with a South African passport they have very limited options and so a job with CX is a chance to live somewhere without the fear of being shot for nothing more than a cell phone .

Having said that if I were an SAA Capt and Scoot offered me a DEC and a chance to live in Singapore that would be my first choice

My heart is perfectly fine. I have no problem with anyone from anywhere applying to CX and starting at the bottom of the seniority list. We don’t require direct entry Captains. CX has plenty of suitable pilots already in the ranks. Now Scoot is a different story. I can’t comment on them. I am not with Scoot and don’t care about what problems they have or don’t have. I think we at CX have plenty of our own problems to deal with.

[Bo Wing]

While I feel for the plight of those SAA pilots that may be retrenched/furloughed, there has been plenty of opportunity over the years for these pilots to leave and carve out a career at another carrier overseas. I personally know some that have, even throwing away 12+ years of seniority in the process, so there is no excuse really, those that stayed, made that conscious decision.

The truth is, there are so many Saffa pilots here and in the ME, what SA pilots in general and SAA pilots in particular, need to ask themselves, how would they feel and how would SAAPA respond if these pilots were to return home and join SAA as DEC’s and DEFO’s?

Not with sympathy and understanding would be my guess.

[MainDude]

This scheme will only work if we have TC's and STC's to train them.

Don't for a second think, they won't bring their own. Step aside, work to be done.

[capster]

Thanks Curtain Rod,

I am pleased that has all happened. I’m not “in the know”, hence my questions. I wish every CX pilot strength in their dealings with management.

[BlunderBus]

If you need guidance on promises made and broken then speak to the instructor pilots from the in house training school in Adelaide .. a total ass about face on promises made followed by a f..k you lawsuit .. followed by a large cash payout and yet another black chapter in the long litany of lies and deceit perpetrated by this dispicable mob on their employees. Promises made to the SAA guys will be reneged upon in the most foul manner starting with ‘rosters’ This company cannot exist without free reserve O and A days all unpaid and last moment crisis crewing. If anyone thinks they can commute to SA in the real world of hk aviation Labour ... think again ..
There is NOTHING stable or manageable about scheduling here.

[Oldaircrew]

Should the HKAOA request that SAAPA direct their members to not join CX, that would be the instruction. SAAPA probably hate managers more than you guys do.

[iamlistening]

Now there’s a logical post! HKAOA needs to grow a pair, like yesterday. DEFO in HK should have been banned straight away, but better late than never. DEFO counter acts the TB, why wouldn’t it be banned? As for trainers, well, you all know where I stand... It’s past time guys!



CXORCIST, check your posts to get your story straight. You said you weren't here in 95 so you are not to blame for allowing the company to start the rot back then. But you were here in 2001. And yet you claim you joined as a DEFO. That means you joined via ASL and I don't think you did (I certainly didn't see you there) or as an early freight guy. So even if you did join as DEFO you joined at a time when the company was taking FO jobs away from their pilots and handing them over to ASL or hiring freight guys on lesser terms and replacing these jobs with SOs. If you joined as SO, which I know you actually did, you joined at a time when the company was taking FO jobs away from their pilots and handing them over to ASL or hiring freight guys on lesser terms and replacing these jobs with SOs. Get the pattern here? I was also beneficiary of this approach but I am not complaining, you are.


You badmouth people who work hard to get into a profession and are met with bad luck beyond their control. And yet you got to where you are by doing exactly what they are doing. I know this is a bleeding rumour network but please get your story straight and stop bashing people who just want to earn a living. Why don't you just go to the US majors? They're hiring. Or SAS - oh wait.

[Adam GoodJob]

What the ex-SAA guys and girls need to know is that CX recruitment will lie to them to get them in.

No matter what they are told there can be:

1) No DECs (every COS in CX only allows promotion iaw seniority),
2) No JNB basing (a hell of a lot of guys senior to you have wanted that for decades),
3) Any "commuting roster" will be around 21 days in length and involve travelling to West-coast of USA and back (ie. massively fatiguing).

They really need to understand that.

[betpump5]

4). Position will be Freighter only. NOT Airbus.

Because if I am to believe what I hear, there will be a riot on the Freighter if SAA get onto the pax fleet before them.

But then again, I don't recall any planes being grounded due to a massive sickout when Housing was threatened in 3 months or when Captains were not paid 35K. Even Mr "The guy I just flew with, has his application in with Qantas" didn't pull a Sickie.

[Hugo Peroni the IV]

And if they do end up on the 330, find me a 330 FO who is getting more than 8 days off a month at present. Their rosters are shocking.

[Trafalgar]

Reading all of this just confirms that this company is broken beyond repair. Destroyed by managers who had no understanding, or value for the employees who they should have been nurturing and respecting. Instead, they have abused them over a period of 20+ years to the point that almost the ENTIRE pilot force tries to help them bring the airline down. This must be the most toxic airline on earth. Well done Swire. :D

[Trafalgar]

Nothing will be fixed. In fact, it will get much worse, then collapse suddenly. This management is incestuous, and because they can't be held to account, they remain in place to ensure the total destruction of this airline. It is beyond saving, and the only people who can't seem to see it are the very managers who are running around with their hair on fire blaming everyone but themselves. RH, you and your entire management team are an abject disgrace.

[enoughisenough_]

I have never seen or heard so many pilots actively working against the company,

If only that were true, what about all those heroes helping out the company with commanders discretion when there was FG in Hong Kong!

[OK4Wire]

The two statements are not mutually exclusive.

Yes, there will always be "heroes", but I agree that more and more are actively working against the company. And for good reason.

[wongsuzie]

"live in Singapore"

yeah,please do due diligence.

Read 'Hardwearzone EDMW'.


go in with your eyes open.

[morningcoffee]

How the AOA handles this will be a defining moment. Certainly in terms of its future.

Before we even discuss possible contract/temp bases in JNB or even a sympathetic commuting contract for those potentially at the bottom of a 3000 seniority list, are we really going to allow them to join the pax fleet whilst our Long suffering freighter guys languish?
The AOA doesn’t give a rats ass about the 747 guys, never has and never will. Sadly if a 747 guy bothers to get on the AOA forum and asks about their fleet he gets told to stfu. It’s a case of “I’m on the pax fleet, I’m alright jack” Just look at the AOA response to the ice pirates bs.

[Farman Biplane]

What will be the Ice Pirates response when a “one on one off” offer is made? For each incoming contract DEC, one Ice Pirate gets to transfer off the 747. Thoughts?

[Trafalgar]

Everyone, please don't respond to ANYTHING MorningCoffee says. He is a management troll, just trying to wind everyone up. Ignore him.

[ANTIPHOLUS]

No, Morning Coffee is not a management troll, far from it. Apparently anyone that holds a contrarian view to the one that Traf espouses, must be a management troll. There must be a lot of them on these forums then, in between their daily routines.
And MC is correct..the AOA and GC don't give a sh+t about the freighter, in fact a view held by most of those who are not affected by it, save to say "thank f>>k it isn't me.

[cxorcist]

Everyone, please don't respond to ANYTHING MorningCoffee says. He is a management troll, just trying to wind everyone up. Ignore him.

It’s sad that this need be pointed out. Isn’t it obvious? Probably DP hiding in his office. Never see him on the street anymore. His ruin is just about complete, almost in death throes, grasping at straws now in hopes of salvation. Maybe you shouldn’t have tethered your boat to AT’s sinking ship. That was a bad call mate.

[Trafalgar]

MorningCoffee IS a management troll. A review of his posts clearly evidences that. Ignore him.

[ANTIPHOLUS]

As long as it keeps you happy. At least two of you are in agreement. I am Morning Coff.....Spartacus

[morningcoffee]

Firstly as four of them mentioned on the AOA forum thread they are 747 Crew ffs, not freighter not ice pirates not rubber dog**** haulers or anything else. 747 Crew, just like 777 Crew or A330 Crew or A350 Crew.
It’s not hard.
Secondly, Curtain Rod, read the dribble by RF telling them that anyone who threatens to leave the AOA is a free loader. Not once does he suggest that as AOA members if they are unhappy, whatever the f*ck it is, they have a right to be heard. In an entire 6+ paragraphs on the aoa forum not once does he say if a group of members are upset by the GC it is never their intent.
It’s the GC ffs, it’s supposed to be the voice of the members, ALL the AOA members.
Trafalgar, I’m arguing that the 747 fleet crews deserve better, you’re arguing the opposite?

[Air Profit]

Well, we have plenty to moan about, so nothing against the SAA pilots. We simply don't trust our management to deal ethically with any issue that provides them an opportunity to divide our pilot group. Regardless, your colleagues would be well advised to stay away, not because they wouldn't be welcomed by the pilots here (no problem with that), but because they would be royally screwed over by CX management, and the lifestyle would be hellish (just ask our present freighter pilots). Wish you guys the best, as have always like the SA's i've met over the years.

[Farman Biplane]

“lifestyle would be hellish”.....compared to being evicted from your farmland (after being raped/plundered), not being able to leave your compound in safety, living in a country with an unimaginable homicide/personal crime rate.....

[Trafalgar]

Pretty sad when your point of reference is that situation. Still, does not justify invading another airline and undermining the pilots there who are fighting for their own conditions.

[DropKnee]

[QUOTE=Farman Biplane;10100350]“lifestyle would be hellish”.....compared to being evicted from your farmland (after being raped/plundered), not being able to leave your compound in safety, living in a country with an unimaginable homicide/personal crime rate.....[/QUOTE

Pherhaps another revolution is in order.

[Trafalgar]

Revolution? Dropknee, we need one of those at CX...

[Ghost_Rider737]

I've lived in SA 35 years and have never had anything taken/stolen from me or my family.
I don't think ANY SAA pilots would leave to join CX.
Yes, I suppose if you're a farmer living on "stolen" land then you're in trouble but if not then it should not be an issue. Land claims are a legal process. Don't believe all the BS you read here.

BTW : management at SAA have made it clear that not a single employee would be furloughed. CX/Turkish contracts were offered as a temporary measure for anyone wishing to take unpaid leave. Productivity is probably at an all time low but lifestyle is at an all time high.

[Flex88]

"Yes, I suppose if you're a farmer living on "stolen" land then you're in trouble but if not then it should not be an issue. Land claims are a legal process. Don't believe all the BS you read here.

Land claims in Zimbabwe were a "Legal Process" as well.. How did that work out for those land/property owners ?
Come to CX and talk to the many that left...

Tic Toc, Tic Toc.

[mngmt mole]

CX tends to follow a “Zimbabwe” type of legal process as well. Works well (for management).

[cxorcist]

CX tends to follow a “Zimbabwe” type of legal process as well. Works well (for management).

That’s an insult to Zimbabwe.

[cxorcist]

In all seriousness, that CX actually pursued these SAA pilots is really going to be a barometer for their ability to recruit real pilots going forward. If these guys choose otherwise, which I’m hearing they all or mostly will, then CX will know for sure that their future is solely tied to starry-eyed cadets with shiny jet syndrome. The byproducts of that are profound. Turnover will be higher. Failures will be more common. Experience levels in the cockpit will plummet. Safety will be impacted. There is no alternative unless the recruitment package is changed. These airliners are very safe, but they still require experienced pilots to make decisions and keep out of trouble.

[crwkunt roll]

There is no alternative unless the recruitment package is changed
Good for new joiners with experience if that happens, but as we all know, you get what you signed up for in this place. Current HKPA recipients will still have a fight to get anything better than what their contract says.

[Trafalgar]

Some of them will get better conditions, when they are employed with an alrline that respects them and has a package commensurate with the part of the world they are living in. CX seems to think that the most expensive city on earth does not warrant a housing allowance. The resignation rate is a loud answer to that fallacy.