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ORAC
23rd Mar 2018, 12:11
Report by Sky News

Gunman holding hostages in supermarket in Trebes and has stated allegiance to ISIS.

Drive by shooting of policemen from a car in Carcassonne nearby.

Developing situation.

treadigraph
23rd Mar 2018, 12:27
France: Hostage situation at supermarket in Trèbes - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43512791)

sitigeltfel
23rd Mar 2018, 13:01
Two dead, twelve injured, according to French press.

wiggy
23rd Mar 2018, 13:15
Two dead, twelve injured, according to French press.

Our local news ATM is simply saying “at least one dead”....plus one policeman ( member of the CRS) very seriously injured in the original shootout...which may have started when the CRS attempted to stop the “perp” when they became suspicious of the vehicle he was driving.

(Edit to add, original story now completely changed/clarified to saying this all started when the “perp” tried to run the 4 CRS officers over ...)

Katamarino
23rd Mar 2018, 13:36
Can't be right. Our strict gun laws mean no gun crime can happen :=

denachtenmai
23rd Mar 2018, 14:30
Does France have strict gun laws?

wiggy
23rd Mar 2018, 14:47
Does France have strict gun laws?

Strict or not they are not as restrictive as the U.K. given the local chasse go around pretty well tooled up....for those that don’t know sports supermarkets such as Decathlon will have firearms and ammunition out on visible display but TBH I’m not sure what paperwork you need to actually buy the stuff....just to be clear it is not the grade of weaponry that would make some of our American friends drool in envy but seeing the stuff on display next to swimsuits and bike kit it would probably come as a shock to many a law abiding Brit.

Then again given the incidence of hunting accidents in France maybe that is an area that might need looking at.....fat chance of anything being imposed though...

fitliker
23rd Mar 2018, 14:51
Is this not the new normal, and people should expect this in small towns of 5000 people ?


What is to be done ?

sitigeltfel
23rd Mar 2018, 16:06
Does France have strict gun laws?

The laws count for zilch when cities such as Marseille are awash with weapons that were smuggled in during and after the Balkan conflicts.

wiggy
23rd Mar 2018, 18:02
In the context of the thread it appears the GIGN sorted the problem out, though not without a gunfight...latest reports are three dead (supermarket worker and a customer killed by the gunman this AM and then ultimately the gunman himself), several injured, some seriously.

It also seems prior to the assault taking place one of the local Gendarmes volunteered to take the place of one of the civilian hostages ....he ended up as one of the seriously injured......

Trèbes : l'«héroïsme» d'un gendarme qui a pris la place d'une otage (http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2018/03/23/01016-20180323ARTFIG00196-trebes-l-heroisme-d-un-gendarme-qui-a-pris-la-place-d-une-otage.php)

EN DIRECT - L'État islamique revendique les attaques dans l'Aude, le suspect a été tué (http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2018/03/23/01016-20180323LIVWWW00116-en-direct-aude-prise-d-otage-pres-de-carcassonne-des-crs-pris-pour-cible.php)

Hussar 54
23rd Mar 2018, 19:30
It's now being reported on TV that the arseh*le first hijacked a car, murdering the driver and seriously injuring the passenger, before the incident at the supermarket where one of the shop assistants was also murdered and the ( quite senior ) Gendarme volunteer left for dead.

With this sort of racially motivated attacks happening every few months, it's becoming increasingly difficult for many people like myself and almost all our friends NOT to become racially intolerant ourselves.

Only the knowledge that this is probably what a measurable percentage of muslems here would love to see happen, and the consequences if it did, is keeping the FN from having a few million additional supporters.

sitigeltfel
23rd Mar 2018, 19:31
The CRS policeman shot while jogging before the hostage event had a lucky escape. The bullet struck him between his shoulder and heart and he had surgery this afternoon to remove it. His recovery prospects are said to be good.

meadowrun
23rd Mar 2018, 21:02
Europe has let in millions of potential fifth columnists. Most will not see their dreams of success in the West come true and every short, once in a while, an even more disaffected little man or little boys will generate some murderous havoc in that society.


Get used to it. You have blundered into the situation you face, all by yourselves, and it is now really far too late to adequately contain or remedy the situation with any sort of routine measures.

Chronus
23rd Mar 2018, 21:22
" When there is no enemy within, the enemies outside cannot hurt you"

Winston S. Churchill

MFC_Fly
23rd Mar 2018, 21:30
Get used to it. You have blundered into the situation you face, all by yourselves
I thought we were discussing terrorism in Europe, not the current American President :E

obgraham
23rd Mar 2018, 23:11
Obviously, the problem in France is too easy access to guns.

galaxy flyer
23rd Mar 2018, 23:32
Obviously, the problem in France is too easy access to guns.

No, it would seem the problem is too easy access to Europe.

GF

strake
24th Mar 2018, 01:26
Lt-Col Arnaud Beltrame

Hero is an overused phrase in the media today. This man however, deserves it ten times over. All of France is praying he pulls through.

ZFT
24th Mar 2018, 01:31
Lt-Col Arnaud Beltrame

Hero is an overused phrase in the media today. This man however, deserves it ten times over. All of France is praying he pulls through.

If the reports are accurate, then I would hope not just France.

reynoldsno1
24th Mar 2018, 02:37
Europe has let in millions of potential fifth columnists.
In this case, I understand the perpetrator was born in Belgium, and was a French citizen?

obgraham
24th Mar 2018, 02:51
In this case, I understand the perpetrator was born in Belgium, and was a French citizen?Was he “French” in the cultural sense?

meadowrun
24th Mar 2018, 03:19
I understand the perpetrator was born in Belgium, and was a French citizen?
The problem was never limited to the first generation of arrivals. The kids are and will be the biggest threat no matter what some meaningless citizenship paperwork indicates.

AAGpilot
24th Mar 2018, 03:22
Terrible

Filler

sitigeltfel
24th Mar 2018, 07:01
Lt-Col Arnaud Beltrame

Hero is an overused phrase in the media today. This man however, deserves it ten times over. All of France is praying he pulls through.

Sadly, it has just been reported that he has died.

wiggy
24th Mar 2018, 07:45
Sadly, it has just been reported that he has died.

Sadly that does indeed seem to be the bad news this morning.

Rwy in Sight
24th Mar 2018, 07:58
The problem was never limited to the first generation of arrivals. The kids are and will be the biggest threat no matter what some meaningless citizenship paperwork indicates.

Nice point but rather quite reverse. The first generation was more or less ok and the second generation started to act up.

meadowrun
24th Mar 2018, 08:38
Kinda what I said.

Bergerie1
24th Mar 2018, 10:16
How very sad that Lt-Col Arnaud Beltrame has died of his wounds. He demonstrated courage of the highest order. I live in the south of France and join with all of France in saluting a very brave man.

megan
24th Mar 2018, 12:17
Reported here the individual was Moroccan born and on a watch list because of his interest in certain web sites.

KelvinD
24th Mar 2018, 12:22
Bergerie1: I agree 100% with your sentiment. What an incredibly brave and selfless thing to do; putting himself in grave danger in an effort to help others.

jolihokistix
24th Mar 2018, 12:46
Quote from BBC: “Prosecutor Francois Molins said he had been on an extremist watch-list due to "his radicalisation and his links with the Salafist movement", a hardline offshoot of Sunni Islam. However, subsequent investigations by intelligence services had not turned up any signs he would act, he said.”

Hussar 54
24th Mar 2018, 12:55
Reported here the individual was Moroccan born and on a watch list because of his interest in certain web sites.


And known to local police because of his criminal record as a drug dealer.

Mr Optimistic
24th Mar 2018, 13:31
Here's to you M Beltrame, you were a better man than me.

57mm
24th Mar 2018, 13:52
Cold, hard, selfless courage of the highest order. Worthy of the French equivalent of the George Cross.

sitigeltfel
24th Mar 2018, 17:45
As well as Lt. Col. Beltrame, the other victims have been named.

Jean Mazières, retired winemaker. He was killed during the car hijacking prior to the siege.

Christian Medves, butcher at the supermarket.

Hervé Sosna, retired mason and customer at the supermarket.

Three IEDs were also discovered in the supermarket along with a 7.65mm handgun.

Tankertrashnav
24th Mar 2018, 18:26
Cold, hard, selfless courage of the highest order. Worthy of the French equivalent of the George Cross.

That made me think, as I has been under the impression that the Legion of Honour, France's highest award, could not be made posthumously. That was the original situation, but that changed during the Great War, when many posthumous awards were made. I would think in this case they will be thinking of one of the higher grades of the Legion of Honour, possibly Commander.

G-CPTN
24th Mar 2018, 20:36
You cannot ask a man anything more than he should give his life for his country.
When that man knowingly puts himself into a life-threatening situation in order to save the life of a stranger - a 'member of the public' - then it is truly the greatest sacrifice ever.

That the Lt Colonel considered himself to be better-equipped than the hostage reflects the bravery of that man.

A slight concession - he had no children.

He deserves the highest possible decoration and a state funeral - I'm sure that thousands would turn out in his honour.

TURIN
25th Mar 2018, 02:21
Lt-Col Arnaud Beltrame
What can one say but 'What a guy!'

A proper copper.

Selfless and an incredibly brave thing to do. I for one am glad this is focusing on the guts of this man rather than the gutless, murderous [email protected] that has ruined the lives of so many.

chopper2004
25th Mar 2018, 04:03
You cannot ask a man anything more than he should give his life for his country.
When that man knowingly puts himself into a life-threatening situation in order to save the life of a stranger - a 'member of the public' - then it is truly the greatest sacrifice ever.

That the Lt Colonel considered himself to be better-equipped than the hostage reflects the bravery of that man.

A slight concession - he had no children.

He deserves the highest possible decoration and a state funeral - I'm sure that thousands would turn out in his honour.


RIP Colonel sir, and many condolences to his widow and family.

It appears he was married to his fiancée from his bedside ..few hours before he passed away. He’s a true man of honour and his word , a hero combined soldier and police officer.

On a lighter note , when I was at uni - curiously wandered over to the law section in our library and picked up a book about French law enforcement. One chapter dealt with the rivalry between the Surete and Gendamarie especially when both units arrived at a crime scene where an English aristocrat and his family were murdered. Apparently there was a conversation between gendarme and a police ie officer where sarcastic “no wonder you called us !” To which the gendarme was gob smacked!

The boook emphasised that a gendarme couldn’t be a good cop/ detective but could turn s cop into s soldier de the gendarme thing......

Also described the different routes of becoming involved 8n law enforcement ...one 9f which was leave school with basic qualifications then join up as an inquieter or investigator without going down the long formal way of police on the best to work your way up. I got the impression the investigator or inquieter route was sans promotion hence the minimum requirement and quick way onto the Force minus the academy, then uniformed on the beat and so forth promotion up to inspector. However it’s been over 2 decades since I read it ..so please can anyone confirm / correct.

Cheers

magyarflyer
25th Mar 2018, 04:15
Reported here the individual was Moroccan bornd on a watch list because of his interest in certain web sites.

moroccan labeled S by French security, jailed twice, known to have travelled to syria and indoctrinated, known delinquent, despite his prior record given French citizenship in 2015

the French are f* up

and tons more within their country

flash8
25th Mar 2018, 04:19
He deserves the highest possible decoration and a state funeral - I'm sure that thousands would turn out in his honour.

Might be deemed culturally insensitive though.... Wouldn't surprise me.

meadowrun
25th Mar 2018, 05:21
A little less cultural sensitivity (not violence) might clear some things up a bit, make things easier to handle and move forward.
Your (any) culture is not a revered icon to me.
You want to live in my society? You stand on your own two feet, do not live off the state and make something of yourself without blaming everyone else for your misfortunes. Certainly, you don't go off like a rabid raccoon and start killing random people in the name of a gang of lunatics in the sparse lands of failure. There is no place for you then.


While the police officer should rightly be honoured, do not let it distract. There is a far more pressing matter facing France and Europe and so far, too little good work put towards the problem. Many even still believe there is no real problem as they bury a hero and victims.

sitigeltfel
26th Mar 2018, 18:02
A female friend of the terrorist, herself on the terror watch list, is in custody over suspicions that she assisted him. She has told police that he did not kill enough people and that Muslims are entitled to defend themselves.

I'm not sure how blowing away innocent people can be claimed as defending yourself, but it does give further insight into the twisted ideology they subscribe to.

sitigeltfel
27th Mar 2018, 09:10
It has now been revealed that the terrorist had been sent a letter earlier this month asking him to contact the security services. They wanted him to arrange an interview relating to his activities and status on the terror watch list!

Clouseau lives!

https://www.laprovence.com/actu/en-direct/4898122/attentats-dans-laude-radouane-lakdim-devait-etre-entendu-par-la-dgsi.html

sidevalve
27th Mar 2018, 13:18
His girl friend (a convert to Islam) was taken in for questioning - shouting "Allahu Akbar!".. She reportedly said that the only death she regretted was that of her boyfriend.

President Macron will attend the state funeral for Lt Col Arnaud Beltrame tomorrow at Les Invalides and his current grade of the Légion d'Honneur will be upgraded posthumously to that of Commandeur.

Meadowrun above (https://www.pprune.org/10096089-post42.html) has it right IMHO.. There's an expression that's been doing the rounds recently: If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got. I think Macron would find widespread support for stricter measures against those suspected of terrorism.

Andy_S
27th Mar 2018, 14:42
Clouseau lives!

To be fair, I doubt we would have been any more sensible here in the UK.

sitigeltfel
27th Mar 2018, 15:34
Lt Col Beltrame has been posthumously promoted to full Colonel.

To add to this tragedy, the body of his father was discovered a few weeks ago in fishing nets off the Mediterranean coast.

A left wing political candidate has been sentenced to one year in jail for posting tweets welcoming the Gendarmes killing.

Planemike
27th Mar 2018, 15:53
Might be deemed culturally insensitive though.... Wouldn't surprise me.


"Culturally insensitive".....to honour an exceptionally brave man. What ?!!!