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Brian W May
22nd Mar 2018, 16:44
I’ve been with Prune using one name or another more or less from when it started.

Day was ‘Professional Pilots Rumour Network’ was just that . . . an incident/accident amongst other stuff happened and people discussed it, offered theories, anecdotal information and the like.

 Seems now, as soon as the said incident occurs the thought police are out in droves telling us we can’t discuss it.

They cite a myriad of reasons ranging from Next of Kin might read it, it's in poor taste, through to the media may misquote posts made.

Since when did the media worry about accuracy anyway - don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story?



Next of kin? Are they really going to join Prune just so they can see what is being said? I suggest they’re too busy grieving and I sympathise.

But shutting down a discussion that is often enlightening - certainly was to me when I was flying
?

Andy Hill is a good example, to some of us, we ‘theorised’ accurately as it turned out that it was pilot error - but oh dear me, if you said as much the sky fell in on your head. ‘He only made one error’ is trotted out - yep, perhaps, I don’t know because I wasn’t there - undoubtedly this particular error killed 11 people and traumatised an unknown number. So it can’t be discussed?

The police state has arrived? No, not yet.



Moderators are chosen to moderate (funnily enough) and if THEY think a post is inappropriate then THEY act accordingly - it’s in the rules.



Time out of number the ‘correct’ answer appears somewhere in most threads, but often the poster is subjected to a mass of quite abusive ‘flak’.

So if you singly or collectively object, why not contact a moderator and express your dissatisfaction or don’t read that thread?

Simples

clareprop
22nd Mar 2018, 16:48
It's accepted, even in the worst of media, that when someone is formally charged to appear in court on a criminal matter, in the interests of justice, the matter becomes sub judice on any platform that might be read by jurors or witnesses. I think this forum fits into that criteria. I'm also pretty sure that your para 7 will cause this thread to be dealt with accordingly.

telecaster
22nd Mar 2018, 17:02
It's accepted, even in the worst of media, that when someone is formally charged to appear in court on a criminal matter, in the interests of justice, the matter becomes sub judice on any platform that might be read by jurors or witnesses. I think this forum fits into that criteria.

Well said clareprop

Chris Scott
22nd Mar 2018, 17:02
I’ve been with Prune using one name or another more or less from when it started.

Day was ‘Professional Pilots Rumour Network’ was just that . . . an incident/accident amongst other stuff happened and people discussed it, offered theories, anecdotal information and the like.

 Seems now, as soon as the said incident occurs the thought police are out in droves telling us we can’t discuss it.

They cite a myriad of reasons ranging from Next of Kin might read it, it's in poor taste, through to the media may misquote posts made.

Since when did the media worry about accuracy anyway - don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story?



Next of kin? Are they really going to join Prune just so they can see what is being said? I suggest they’re too busy grieving and I sympathise.

But shutting down a discussion that is often enlightening - certainly was to me when I was flying
?

Andy Hill is a good example, to some of us, we ‘theorised’ accurately as it turned out that it was pilot error - but oh dear me, if you said as much the sky fell in on your head. ‘He only made one error’ is trotted out - yep, perhaps, I don’t know because I wasn’t there - undoubtedly this particular error killed 11 people and traumatised an unknown number. So it can’t be discussed?

The police state has arrived? No, not yet.



Moderators are chosen to moderate (funnily enough) and if THEY think a post is inappropriate then THEY act accordingly - it’s in the rules.



Time out of number the ‘correct’ answer appears somewhere in most threads, but often the poster is subjected to a mass of quite abusive ‘flak’.

So if you singly or collectively object, why not contact a moderator and express your dissatisfaction or don’t read that thread?

Simples

"I’ve been with Prune using one name or another..."

What I find sickening is when people like you hide behind aliases to make the most vitriolic and half-baked attacks on named people.

Someone once said: "Let him without sin cast the first stone."

Chris Scott (my real name)

flash8
22nd Mar 2018, 17:04
What I find sickening is when people like you hide behind aliases to make the most vitriolic and half-baked attacks on named people.

With respect Brian like many of us may need/have needed to be anonymous lest our companies haul us over the coals. And I guess when this is no longer needed some may revert to their name, in my opinion a rather good thing, certainly doesn't seem he has anything to hide considering he gives his old alias in his profile :)

flash8 (not my real name one hopes).

barry lloyd
22nd Mar 2018, 17:19
With respect Brian like many of us may need/have needed to be anonymous lest our companies haul us over the coals. And I guess when this is no longer needed some may revert to their name, in my opinion a rather good thing, certainly doesn't seem he has anything to hide considering he gives his old alias in his profile :)

flash8 (not my real name one hopes).

Rumour has it that was the name you were known by in 'Night Flight':E

(I am aware that only those who have been to Moscow will understand that, but what happens in Moscow stays in Moscow - usually!)

Brian W May
22nd Mar 2018, 17:24
My profile - which is public domain says:

Ex Dengue_Dude, retired military & civil FE. No longer require anonymity.

Excuse me, but what part of that is hiding? Indeed I was working for various airlines that most certainly WOULD have objected.

What's that old adage? DON'T ASSUME, CHECK?

DaveReidUK
22nd Mar 2018, 17:26
A more valid objection would be that the topic has been debated exhaustively in these columns and there really is nothing new to say that can be deduced from the charges that have been brought.

Ex Cargo Clown
22nd Mar 2018, 18:02
As has been pointed out the Andy Hill case is now a criminal investigation, as I assume that is what is being refered to.

donotdespisethesnake
22nd Mar 2018, 18:22
Despite jurors under strict instruction not to do their own research of the case on the internet, I know for a fact that they do. Whatever your opinion, it is in the interests of justice for all parties that sub-judice rules are followed. The publishers of this site also have a legal liability.

For the topic now subject to criminal prosecution, there really is no grounds to question the decision to decline further discussion.

Pilot DAR
22nd Mar 2018, 18:26
Let's please pause discussion of this topic. I , or another mod will come back to this in the next day or so.

Thanks, Pilot DAR

Legalapproach
22nd Mar 2018, 22:13
Regarding Andy Hill - these are the words of the Crown Prosecution Service lawyer who authorised the charges:

“I would like to remind all concerned that criminal proceedings have now commenced and the defendant has a right to a fair trial. It is extremely important that there should be no reporting, commentary or sharing of information online which could in any way prejudice these proceedings.”

D SQDRN 97th IOTC
22nd Mar 2018, 22:34
“Which could in any way prejudice the proceedings”

Not quite what the law says, but hey.

dsc810
22nd Mar 2018, 22:48
The problem for the CPS as with any famous case in today's multi-media world is that just about everyone in the UK will have heard about the "incident" so getting a totally untainted jury is going to be next to near impossible.

I was once a witness in a non aviation case and I was somewhat unsure as to whether or not I was allowed to or indeed should be reading online the previous few days of evidence as it was reported by the press (so again tainted by whatever line the press wanted to run with) prior to my evidence. Interestingly it was held in a neighbouring county to I presume try and result in jurors who did not know about the case. The fact that The Telegraph and the DM and the rest had run with it nationally when the event occurred prior seems to be ignored.

Of course jurors do their own research as they are fed up with being fed cock and bull stories of twaddle by both the prosecution and the defence teams.

Brian W May
22nd Mar 2018, 22:57
Perhaps I wasn't clear. My thread wasn't meant to be ABOUT a person, it was about the behaviour of posters who act like thought police.

Perhaps a poor example and for that I apologise. The moderators have the job of policing the site - not people who want to foist their own opinion on all other posters - who have just as many rights.

On a personal basis, I'm really puzzled by Chris Scott's [the edit, sorry] comment. I used one name when I couldn't afford to be directly identified, and my own name. Hardly 'hiding' behind aliases.

When you fly for a company that Photoshops an engine intrascope inspection before a two-engined ferry, it's very difficult operating on Prune under your own name.

So, this is not about Andy Hill - it's so much more.

L'aviateur
22nd Mar 2018, 23:26
Ultimately Brian the forum has become a victim of its own success and with such popularity, particularly amongst journalists looking for a soundbite, there are challenges placed on the owners and operators of the board.
The forum has been subject to restrictions and legal battles numerous times in recent years and there are several banned topics because it is just too expensive and too difficult to fight those battles.
There are other smaller forums around where you probably find more open discussions.

The internet also isn't the same place it was 10 or 15 years ago, there is more and more legal precedence that makes forum owners and web hosts much more cautious.

parabellum
22nd Mar 2018, 23:37
The major problem on PPRuNe when an accident or incident occurs is that two thirds of posters, who immediately jump on their key boards, are not professional pilots and actually know stuff all about professional flying, additionally they have no relevant experience on which to base their wild conjecture. Discovering that one has been engaged in a technical argument about aspects of the B744 with a Flight Sim specialist is quite irritating, to say the least.

Brian W May
22nd Mar 2018, 23:45
The major problem on PPRuNe when an accident or incident occurs is that two thirds of posters, who immediately jump on their key boards, are not professional pilots and actually know stuff all about professional flying, additionally they have no relevant experience on which to base their wild conjecture. Discovering that one has been engaged in a technical argument about aspects of the B744 with a Flight Sim specialist is quite irritating, to say the least.


Agreed, but that's why it's a RUMOUR network - the clue's in the title. We meet the ignorant and ill-informed everywhere, why do we expect Prune to be any different?

It used to be a whole lot more fun than it is now - so often (like on another thread currently running) it degenerates into a slanging match which doesn't really achieve a lot.

I must admit to having a degree of sardonic amusement seeing just how long it takes . . .

That said, the good outweighs the bad - it just gets a bit close sometimes.

All of the above is 'in my humble opinion' :O

D SQDRN 97th IOTC
22nd Mar 2018, 23:49
Cunning one that
Who would have guessed

Brian W May
22nd Mar 2018, 23:58
Cunning one that
Who would have guessed

Like one of Baldric's cunning plans apparently :O :p

parabellum
23rd Mar 2018, 00:05
Agreed, but that's why it's a RUMOUR network - the clue's in the title. We meet the ignorant and ill-informed everywhere, why do we expect Prune to be any different?
Because it is a forum for professional pilots Brian, the clue is in the title! ;)

Pugilistic Animus
23rd Mar 2018, 00:25
You all could just stay in Tech Log and Questions but even without participating in Rumours and News,I can guarantee you all are still reading it anyway :}

Highway1
23rd Mar 2018, 03:18
Because it is a forum for professional pilots Brian, the clue is in the title! ;)


Since when is that a protection against meeting the ignorant and ill-informed?

parabellum
23rd Mar 2018, 04:08
True, but it should be a significant eliminator.

tartare
23rd Mar 2018, 07:32
Under British law (and that of many other Commonwealth countries) once the possibility of charges being laid becomes highly likely, the matter can be considered sub-judice.
So the test is even tougher than you think.
The mods did exactly the right thing closing the previous thread.

MOSTAFA
23rd Mar 2018, 09:01
The problem with Prune is simple it has ceased being a Professional PILOTS rumour Network.

Effluent Man
23rd Mar 2018, 09:09
I have read all of the Shoreham stuff posted on here and my opinion is still as it was one day one. The only way that would change would be if someone came up with something new and incontrovertible e.g. The aircraft suffered a mechanical or electrical failure, or conversely the pilot crashed deliberately.

Pontius Navigator
23rd Mar 2018, 09:12
I tend to agree with Brian, but the problem is the very professional pruners are joined by the amateur and the media.

As an example I would cite AF447(?) and Malaysian 470(?) where rumours abounded and many professional posters spent a lot of time trying to discount the wilder flights of fantasy theories. Of course with hundreds of thousands hours of experience they had also probably experienced the exact same issue (and survived).

I wonder, do the air crash investigators read such pprune comments? They would certainly be aware of most previous incidents That had been reported but collective memory has far greater knowledge.

Chris Scott
23rd Mar 2018, 09:36
Quote from Brian W May:
"I’ve been with Prune using one name or another more or less from when it started."

On reflection I seem to have misjudged Mr May. I inferred from the above that he had used more than one alias, may still be using them, and that even "Brian W May" might be one of them. That's evidently not the case. Quote:
"On a personal basis, I'm really puzzled by Chris Scott's [the edit, sorry] comment. I used one name when I couldn't afford to be directly identified, and my own name. Hardly 'hiding' behind aliases."

But I'm still unhappy with part of his following argument [my emphasis]:
"Seems now, as soon as the said incident occurs the thought police are out in droves telling us we can’t discuss it.
They cite a myriad of reasons ranging from Next of Kin might read it, it's in poor taste, through to the media may misquote posts made.
Since when did the media worry about accuracy anyway - don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story?"

Misquoting can be subtle. I think some assertions are more easily misquoted and/or misinterpreted than others, so the Moderators are sometimes treading a fine line. But I agree that some comment which is harmless gets deleted simply because a Moderator has judged it to be frivolous, not realising that it makes a relevant contribution to a discussion and may represent useful thinking "outside the box." [EDIT: I think Pontius Navigator makes a comparable point above.]

Exrigger
23rd Mar 2018, 09:40
It is quite correct when those who keep stating the obvious that PPRuNe, as a whole is titled as a Professional Pilots Rumour Network, as do some of the text under titles, however there are areas that are not solely for Pilots, Military Aviation is one, and would assume that applies to Jet Blast, Rotorheads and Aviation History & Nostalgia to name 3.

Unless PPRuNe owners/moderators had, or in the future, only allow pilots to join, by vetting applications, you will never stop anyone joining and posting on any thread that is open to the general public.

chuks
23rd Mar 2018, 11:37
R & N seems to draw two sorts of commentary about most occurrences:

1. Statements of the bleedin' obvious. For example, someone does VFR into IMC, and does a fatal CFIT. That's the sort of accident that's simply unremarkable, yet it gets remarked upon at length, often in that unhealthy way that suggests that the commentator knows he's never going to do anything so fatally stupid himself.

2. Wild and totally unsubstantiated notions about an occurrence of which almost nothing is known. Yes, it could be simple pilot error, or it could be "aliens," or it could be almost anything in between those two things. Who knows? Instead of waiting for the report, though, we get instant solutions to the puzzle.

As to the idea of this being for pilots only, perhaps that might be useful for some parts of the Prune as a whole, but there are many other parts where the general public often has interesting and valuable things to contribute. (Even when it's "pilots only" I think that engineers should also be allowed to comment. It's often so that they know more than most pilots do about the background to whatever happened. It is so that "You can teach a monkey to ride a bicycle, but you can't teach him to fix a flat tire.")

It would be useful to me at least, to know the qualifications of whoever is posting behind that nom de Prune, when that usefulness can work both ways. Sometimes I think I am dealing with someone who is about on the level of Baldrick, but who turns out to be actually quite knowing of that of which he speaks, far more knowing than I myself am. God, but that can be embarrassing!

Other times, we get someone who is merely "walting." There was once a "Leer Jet" pilot (on Jet Blast, of course) who told a real pilot he was "not a real pilot." Having some sort of quick read of who Mr. Leer Jet really was would have damped down a lot of unnecessary nonsense before he outed himself as no pilot at all. I did come away from that with my own book, Moby-Dick, but aside from that we were both wasting valuable bandwidth.

Then there was a fellow on another forum who wanted to tell us about high speed flight in a Boeing, when the "yolk" would start vibrating in a way that made what happened on 9/11 an impossibility. It was easy to guess that he was not the pilot he claimed to be.

Sir Niall Dementia
23rd Mar 2018, 11:51
From the OP;

"Next of kin? Are they really going to join Prune just so they can see what is being said? I suggest they’re too busy grieving and I sympathise"

The next of kin in this thread joined, https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/489742-who-jim-ferguson.html?highlight=jim+ferguson

See Angry Relative. They were shocked at the attitude towards their family member, Sadly there was little or no sympathy for the family in that case, but having had dealings with the person concerned, I'm not surprised.

SND

Tankertrashnav
23rd Mar 2018, 12:10
The problem with Prune is simple it has ceased being a Professional PILOTS rumour Network

Further to what exrigger says, are you saying then that people like the OP, who reminds us that he is a retired military and civil FE should not have contributed because he was not actually a pilot?

As a former navigator I have always refrained from commenting on matters (aircraft handling etc) which are solely the realm of pilots, but there are many areas, such as airmanship, flight safety etc where comments from other aircrew categories and indeed from those on the ground such as ATC (and riggers!) have equal validity.

Exrigger
23rd Mar 2018, 12:21
It would be a very boring and reduced site if it was left to Professional Pilots only, and even they cannot agree with each other over issues and incidences, I wonder how many un-professional pilots there are that would feel left out as well, and would anyone know that they were not actually a 'professional' pilot from their posts. ;)

Also to note, one does not have to be a member to read a lot of the site, but can easily join if you feel the need to comment on those threads that a log in would permit you access to.

cattletruck
23rd Mar 2018, 12:22
I often have my posts on R&N deleted within minutes of posting. I think I've worked it out though, it's because I haven't put my FlightSim ratings in my PPRuNE profile.

But I couldn't care, the MilForum and RotorHeads is full of many authentic characters with very interesting stories to tell.

MOSTAFA
23rd Mar 2018, 13:09
Further to what exrigger says, are you saying then that people like the OP, who reminds us that he is a retired military and civil FE should not have contributed because he was not actually a pilot?

As a former navigator I have always refrained from commenting on matters (aircraft handling etc) which are solely the realm of pilots, but there are many areas, such as airmanship, flight safety etc where comments from other aircrew categories and indeed from those on the ground such as ATC (and riggers!) have equal validity.

Did you forget banter works both ways.

some pilots I have known would have had difficulty in finding their own way out to the aircraft without help!

radeng
23rd Mar 2018, 14:51
How does the 'sub judice' business work when there has been an accident report issued -either AAIB or RAIB then? It suggests almost that the report should not be issued until after any court case, but that could be detrimental to safety.

WHBM
23rd Mar 2018, 17:00
"Leer Jet" ... when the "yolk" would start vibrating
Unfortunately Auto Correct routines on "Smart" phones etc has a lot to do with this.

And I've encountered a fair number of aviators over time who have referred to Quantas, Stanstead, or (a USA favourite) British Air.

Tankertrashnav
23rd Mar 2018, 18:02
I must have forgotten about banter MOSTAFA, maybe a ;) would have helped me ;)

The trouble is, up in R & N there are many who would have taken your post at face value and entirely agreed with it. I dont very often post up there, but when I do I reckon at least 50% gets deleted. I'm assuming it must be because of my former trade, because looking at some of the drivel that does get left in, it cant be because of the content!

MOSTAFA
23rd Mar 2018, 19:22
just for you TTN ��

I don't even know how to include a smiley but I do know how and where to find my aircraft.

chuks
23rd Mar 2018, 19:26
In both cases we had an extended, full and frank exchange of views when it was quite clear that the one fellow saw nothing wrong with repeatedly calling it a "Leer Jet."

The other one was asked if he was a hard-boiled aviator, if there was anyone egging him on, and so on. Finally someone, not me, took pity on him and told him that it was spelled "yoke."

That first guy had cited some advanced tome on economics as "his book," and one that proved a point of his about the economics of aircraft operation, that a 757 certainly was cheaper to operate than a GV.

I Googled "his book," to find it had two authors, one male, one female, so that I asked him which one he was. Then he told us that he had not written the book; he owned a copy of the book.

I then referred him to my book, Moby-Dick. It's a very fine book, one I am proud to claim. The late, and greatly missed, Con-Pilot was part of this go-round, when we did have some fun with this lunatic.

It's interesting, people who want to fake being pilots, and then try it on with a group of pilots. I once met up with an old high school classmate 20 years on, when she told me that her boyfriend was ex-Navy, that he used to fly fighters off carriers. Well, Cool!

Later on that evening I met him, when I wanted to know which carrier; which type, A4, F4, F8, or what; which squadron; where and when and all that sort of thing. I was not trying to pin him down; I just wanted to know about his time in the Navy.

Well, unless he had been in some top-secret squadron that swore him to secrecy he sure was unable to come up with any details at all. He had flown "jets" off "carriers."

My poor former classmate was stuck with a faker there and I did not want to embarrass her, so that we switched to some other topic entirely. I did notice his nervous habit of licking his eyebrows so that I think he was not a dead loss to her.

The odd thing about all this online stuff is that sometimes the bigger the faker the more strident they are about proving some point or other. The internet sure does bring out the best in people.

Highway1
23rd Mar 2018, 21:38
I did notice his nervous habit of licking his eyebrows so that I think he was not a dead loss to her.


Christ! - how long was his tongue? :eek:

Rail Engineer
23rd Mar 2018, 22:47
Maybe he had long eyebrows ?

denachtenmai
23rd Mar 2018, 22:56
What happened to PPrune?

Danny sold it.

Brian W May
24th Mar 2018, 01:40
I must have forgotten about banter MOSTAFA, maybe a ;) would have helped me ;)

The trouble is, up in R & N there are many who would have taken your post at face value and entirely agreed with it. I dont very often post up there, but when I do I reckon at least 50% gets deleted. I'm assuming it must be because of my former trade, because looking at some of the drivel that does get left in, it cant be because of the content!

So it’s not just me that gets deleted - mind you I’ve never been humble enough in such august company as our current crop of Thought Police. I’m sure they could get a job in Riyadh or even Jeddah . . .

Brian W May
24th Mar 2018, 01:41
Danny sold it.

Can’t fault him . . .

lomapaseo
24th Mar 2018, 02:33
Maybe he had long eyebrows ?

more like Darwinism where his species needed a uniquely long tongue to sip from a deep flower ala hummingbirds

ExSp33db1rd
24th Mar 2018, 07:28
I think that engineers should also be allowed to comment. It's often so that they know more than most pilots do about the background to whatever happened. It is so that "You can teach a monkey to ride a bicycle, but you can't teach him to fix a flat tire.")


In my day ...Flight Engineers had to know how to do sums, Co-Pilots had to be able to write, but Captains had only to know someone who could read. Is it any different with todays Glass Cockpits ? How far away are we from the prediction that future aircraft will be flown by a Captain and a Dog, the Captain will be there to feed the dog, and the dog will be there to make sure that the Captain DOESN'T TOUCH anything ?

Brian W May
24th Mar 2018, 08:51
In my day ...Flight Engineers had to know how to do sums, Co-Pilots had to be able to write, but Captains had only to know someone who could read. Is it any different with todays Glass Cockpits ? How far away are we from the prediction that future aircraft will be flown by a Captain and a Dog, the Captain will be there to feed the dog, and the dog will be there to make sure that the Captain DOESN'T TOUCH anything ?

. . . and in those days we still called them Alsatians :ok:

chuks
24th Mar 2018, 10:34
The old ones are the best ones. Remember the one with the punchline, "Feed the monkey!"?

Unfortunately, every accident, incident, and even sometimes a complete non-event, anything with even some vague aviation connection, is click-bait.

I saw a mention the other day of how a Lufthansa aircraft had been robbed of valuable freight, which got my attention. No, it was a Lufthansa freight terminal at an airport that had been robbed, something the person who wrote that grabby headline probably knew perfectly well.

Here I guess the mods just try to keep the weeds down, when sometimes something of value also gets the chop. Once in a while that feels personal, but most of the time I think it's just the way things get done.

Pontius Navigator
24th Mar 2018, 12:51
Here I guess the mods just try to keep the weeds down, when sometimes something of value also gets the chop. Once in a while that feels personal, but most of the time I think it's just the way things get done.
It is probably when a perfectly correct post is correcting or refuting a nonsense one, especially in a rapidly growing thread.

Maybe a better way is to introduce a temporary filter such as stopping a new ppruner from posting for X days - or stopping an infrequent ppruner for Y days on that thread.

WHBM
24th Mar 2018, 13:03
Maybe a better way is to introduce a temporary filter such as stopping a new ppruner from posting for X days.
We actually get some interesting threads over on the History & Nostalgia thread when "members of the public" register and ask genuine questions about some flight they took long ago, which often brings out interesting discussion.

BARKINGMAD
24th Mar 2018, 14:55
Interesting to note the alleged Professionals who are allowed into this forum immediately drift off-topic and start banging on about the Shoreham issue?

And this was after personal and unjustified attacks on the OP and his method of protection against possibly disgruntled employers whilst posting during his employment.

If half of the posters on this thread are really professional aviators then I dread being SLF behind them if they are so liable to losing the picture and drifting off-thread so easily. They must be of that breed who ask silly questions regarding trivial differences between what the FMS is saying versus the real world outside those big square windows so kindly provided by the 'frame manufacturers!

May I suggest those who feel impelled to post on this topic start at page 1, read the message originally posed by Brian W, then grasp the topic and run with it.

This habit of extracting a side-issue from an original posting bedevils all those in this forum who have some considerable experience and quote a particular accident to help illustrate their waving of the particular topic. If you don't accept my argument, simply go back in time in multiple Prune threads and observe the hounds departing from the racetrack and rushing off in the wrong direction.

I totally agree with the OP's original message. Perhaps it's time to limit access for postings to those who can prove a current or past professional aviation qualification, just like those company fora are restricted to bona fide employees of that company.

Then you can have an "outer ring" of trolls, Flightsim addicts and others with a little aviation knowledge who can behave as badly as the strange folks who inhabit the other social media but who are thereby unable to contaminate the serious informed discussion we current/retired PROFESSIONALS would like to see. And in which we can easily partake without the white noise of so much rubbish drowning out the relevant contributions. :ugh:

Brian W May
24th Mar 2018, 15:21
Cracking response Mr Spotty Dog.

Mrs May is also impressed and recommends you relax with one of your very decent G & Ts.

Pontius Navigator
24th Mar 2018, 20:36
We actually get some interesting threads over on the History & Nostalgia thread when "members of the public" register and ask genuine questions about some flight they took long ago, which often brings out interesting discussion.
Rapidly growing thread I said.

Temporary restriction I said.