HK micro flat sells for record price

[Air Profit]

A 209 sq ft flat just sold for almost a million USD. Take note anyone who thinks they can settle in HK. Imagine you and your family squashed into something that small, all for the price of a large home in the US or UK. You have been warned.

One in four Hongkongers can?t ever afford a home, as a micro flat sells for another record price | South China Morning Post (http://www.scmp.com/property/hong-kong-china/article/2138095/one-four-hongkongers-cant-ever-afford-home-micro-flat-sells)

[Air Profit]

And just so there's no misunderstanding just how unlivable HK is, here is a quote from the article:

....Among them is Henderson Land’s South Walk.Aura project in Aberdeen, where 70 per cent of the 142 available units are each smaller than 200 square feet. A standard 20-foot shipping container measures 165 square feet, while a standard UK-size car parking space is 126 square feet....

[Air Profit]

I don't see our DFO or CEO talking about cutting their housing allowances...funny that.

[cxorcist]

I don't see our DFO or CEO talking about cutting their housing allowances...funny that.

Can’t!!! Have to attract the best talent to spreadsheet manage CX.

Pilots??? They can be inexperienced. Bottom of the barrel is just fine as long as the price is right.

Safety, not profits, is priority #1 at CX.

[rhinodriver]

A standard 20-foot shipping container measures 165 square feet

I lived in a standard shipping container for a year. It wasn’t that bad as the local housing went....in Afghanistan.

Nice to know our accommodations in a war zone were nearly as spacious as a Hong Kong flat. :)

[cxorcist]

I lived in a standard shipping container for a year. It wasn’t that bad as the local housing went....in Afghanistan.

Nice to know our accommodations in a war zone were nearly as spacious as a Hong Kong flat. :)

... and that shipping container is mostly immune from small arms fire. Double win!!!

[Ghost_Rider737]

My house ,under roof, is 6000 Sq feet.

My bathroom is 220sq feet.

You gotta be nuts to pay 1 mil US for 209 sq ft. Maybe he/she paid in Bitcoin 😂

[Fly747]

I hear that Tung Chung landlords are currently demanding 30% increase at lease renewal time. 40k for a grotty two bedder. How much is the allowance for an FO?
Can't get your kids into school without paying a massive debenture. Hong Kong gets more and more untenable by the month.

[Trafalgar]

Curtain. To clarify: your comments mainly apply to pilots like me and you. The remaining A scale and B scale pilots. Most of those hired since 2010 are now making firm and irrevocable plans to leave. CX has effectively destroyed themselves from the inside out, and is only now beginning to realise the depths of collapse they have triggered. I can safely say that there is probably upwards of a 1000 pilots who have determined to leave. Pilots like you and I will ONLY stay if our housing is secure. I can categorically state that I will be leaving the VERY DAY that my housing ends. I know that most of my colleagues feel the same. So, to conclude: the company has already assured that most of the middle ranks will be leaving, as they have no housing and no realistic hope of ever living a stable and secure life in HK. They are effectively gone. They then also risk losing a large majority of their senior crew, many of which are in C and T. That will happen much as an avalanche does....a sudden shift of the snow cap, then utter chaos. That is the result of the arrogance and stupidity of this management. And btw, I am not just speculating. This is based on the past year of quietly polling the crew I fly with. There is an epic exodus underway, and it is only going to get worse, week by week. Congratulations to AT and RH. You can retire knowing you collapsed one of the worlds great airlines, now long gone.

[Trafalgar]

It's comically tragic that, during the most epic increase in housing costs in HK's history, CX management seem to think that they can attract and retain pilots without paying a substantial housing allowance (effectively NO housing allowance at all for post 2010 pilots). Note to AT and RH: not only do we expect to be able to live comfortably in HK, but we also expect to earn enough to establish and maintain a residence in our home countries, as security towards retirement, and sadly in the case of CX, to protect against the arbitrary and capricious behaviour of our management. To suggest that HKPA is suitable is laughable at best, tragic on its face. ARAPA is the only sensible and suitable allowance that provides proper living arrangements for pllots and their families. And btw, it was YOUR management decision to IMPOSE ARAPA back in the early 2000's, as you suggested it was to 'mirror the market'. Guess what, that is what it does, and EVERY pilot deserves it. Wake up before you don't have an airline left.

[BizJetJockey]

What do non-flying managers and directors of CX get in terms of housing? It would interesting to know at all levels.

[Flex88]

Been here long time...

As far as I know, from DFO (who does not hold a director seat on the board) on up, housing is "provided" period.
Have been to 3 DFO's "provided" homes (owned by Swires I believe) all huge in very nice parts of HK with pools, maid's etc etc. No bills to pay plus CX Audi's complete with drivers (not sure about Audi for DFO).

At the top end - they are provided up on the Peak more than likely with all the staff. including cooks if they want.

Life is soooo hard at the top for those elite educated philosophers, geologists etc.

[CXtreme]

Throw in the pollution and the fact that your kids will not be fimiliar with playing outside, and If they do , it will be supervised ,ruled by the “ cannot “ culture

[Freehills]

senior managers get 24k (level D so supposed captain grade) general managers 30k.

All engineers now on local terms, so if they are not lvl D (maybe 4-5 in the department) they get nothing. Oddly enough quite a few a leaving too...

[wongsuzie]

40k for a 2 bedder in TC? Where?

I am trying to rent out my 2 br in Coastal @ 12.5k -no takers.

[BlunderBus]

You need to stop trying to see this logically because it’s not.
The reason they don’t give a hoot is due to one word ....EXIT
They’re so obviously sucking the guts out of the company I’m surprised you all don’t get it. Cost savings my ass. Put all your eggs in the Hk career basket and you’ll get scrambled.

[azhkman]

40k for a 2 bedder in TC? Where?

I am trying to rent out my 2 br in Coastal @ 12.5k -no takers.

Agreed, TC is not as nuts as other parts of the SAR. 40k in TC should come with a gold plated door & window frames and live-in mainland girlfriend.

[gulliBell]

... and that shipping container is mostly immune from small arms fire. Double win!!!

Well, not really. An AK47 round will go through one sea container wall and out the other and hardly slow down in the process.

[gulliBell]

Why don't the cheap housing allowance deal CX pilots go and live in ZhuHai and commute from there? You can live like a king in ZH for the monthly rent of a dog box in HK.

[Trafalgar]

In yesterdays Wall Street Journal, there was an article about how the 'young' people of HK can't afford to purchase a property without the help of their parents. We are talking about local HK residents. For those contemplating coming to HK, remember you will be discriminated against for the first 7 years, having to pay a purchase tax of almost 20% of the purchase price up front to the government. That is before any downpayments on the property itself. One example in the article was a buyer purchasing a 173 sq ft (yes, 173...) apartment for $3.79 million HKD. That is $488000 usd. For a 173 sq ft. Your upfront tax payment to the Govt would be approx. $97000 usd, then you would need to come up with another $97000 usd for a downpayment. That is before any other expense (furniture/legal). Then you get to settle down (with wife/children) in 173 sq ft. And CX management think that is about all you and your family should expect as a standard of living. Enjoy :ugh:

[Avinthenews]

Flew with a HK local the other day who said he's mortgaging his parents house to buy his first property.

[Flex88]

Flew with a HK local the other day who said he's mortgaging his parents house to buy his first property.

Doesn't that sound nice and safe.. Put ALL your eggs into one basket then add ALL your parents eggs into the same basket just to buy a 600 sq/ft shoe box with a 30 year mortgage.

And what exactly happens say when he gets sick for a year with no income or say if the property market corrects 50% in the wrong direction.. Same thing happened with the fuel hedging nerds.. This is where peoples lives get ruined.

[Flex88]

Why don't the cheap housing allowance deal CX pilots go and live in ZhuHai and commute from there? You can live like a king in ZH for the monthly rent of a dog box in HK.

Why do you think it is that almost every person "in" China wants "out" of China.
Come live in Zhuhai, enjoy the fresh air and the sparkling clean water, wide open spaces where you can frolic in the endless green fields and open spaces...

Get real

[Freehills]

Doesn't that sound nice and safe.. Put ALL your eggs into one basket then add ALL your parents eggs into the same basket just to buy a 600 sq/ft shoe box with a 30 year mortgage.

And what exactly happens say when he gets sick for a year with no income or say if the property market corrects 50% in the wrong direction.. Same thing happened with the fuel hedging nerds.. This is where peoples lives get ruined.

At least HK has a very large social housing sector. In other big cities there isn’t even that - look at the stories in London of overcrowding/ people living in garden sheds

[Flex88]

At least HK has a very large social housing sector. In other big cities there isn’t even that - look at the stories in London of overcrowding/ people living in garden sheds

You are correct FH, in HK it's called "subsidised housing". The problem, regarding the C, D, E, F. scale pilot workers is that your pay hits that perfect sweet spot where you will never qualify..ever.

And then look at it from another view, it's disgusting that any conversation at all in a career such as this that the topic of "subsidised" or "social" housing should even be mentioned..

But then, the DFO gets a bigger bonus, right ??

[cxorcist]

Wow! The bar is really being set high, just like CX’s hiring and training standards.

[Freehills]

You are correct FH, in HK it's called "subsidised housing". The problem, regarding the C, D, E, F. scale pilot workers is that your pay hits that perfect sweet spot where you will never qualify..ever.

And then look at it from another view, it's disgusting that any conversation at all in a career such as this that the topic of "subsidised" or "social" housing should even be mentioned..

But then, the DFO gets a bigger bonus, right ??

Oh, absolutely agree. For ‘sandwich class’ it sucks. And unless a pilot pretty much lives on instant noodles - saving for a deposit will take forever. At least HK takes care of the taxi drivers and bus drivers.

[wongsuzie]

you gave me an idea:I think under facillitles I will add "live in mainland gf included".

[Flex88]

you gave me an idea:I think under facillitles I will add "live in mainland gf included".

Not really the same thing. What you're now talking about is called a "Micro Flat Plus" :}

[jetjockey696]

Forget MicroFLats..why live in a shoe box when you can live in a OPOD in HOng kong.. Looks cozy and safe from the nasty elements of mother nature..and maybe cheaper. its a thought.

Hong Kong Startup Turns Concrete Water Pipes into Stylish Micro-Houses (http://www.odditycentral.com/architecture/hong-kong-startup-turns-concrete-water-pipes-into-stylish-micro-houses.html)

[Flex88]

In the paper the last few days for all those thinking about buying/renting..

US interest rates now on the way up.

What this means.

1. Mortgage payments in HK are going up...
2. Those who own (landlords) are going to have higher mortgage payments therefore rents will go up proportionately..
3. If the rates go high enough to the point where you can no longer make payments, you default and loose your shoe box (and your parents shoe box re the one above who mortgaged his parents appt to get down payment)..

OR

If interest rates go high enough - a property crash where you wake up and your shoe box has lost 50% of its value BUT your mortgage has NOT...

This has happened in HK - Caveat Emptor

[Freehills]

In the paper the last few days for all those thinking about buying/renting..

US interest rates now on the way up.

What this means.

1. Mortgage payments in HK are going up...
2. Those who own (landlords) are going to have higher mortgage payments therefore rents will go up proportionately..
3. If the rates go high enough to the point where you can no longer make payments, you default and loose your shoe box (and your parents shoe box re the one above who mortgaged his parents appt to get down payment)..

OR

If interest rates go high enough - a property crash where you wake up and your shoe box has lost 50% of its value BUT your mortgage has NOT...

This has happened in HK - Caveat Emptor

The only bit I disagree with is that landlords will put their rents up due higher mortgage costs. Rents aren't set by 'cost plus' they are set by "how much can I get". If HK landlords think they can get more money, regardless of if they have a mortgage on the rental property or not, they will put the rent up.

Same was seen in UK when the govt increased the taxes/ decreased the tax advantages for landlords. Landlords all claimed they would need to put their rents up due to the higher costs, but it didn't happen - rents in many places have gone down - as it is supply/ demand that determines rents. not cost

[Avinthenews]

Hong Kong is an unusual place something like 70% of properties have NO mortgage outstanding.

This is why you see the mentality where locals will happily leave a place empty for months or see a long standing tennent (like you or me) move out because they've decided to up the rent. They couldn't care less because they don't have a mortgage to pay and it's a loss of face to not get the rent they're asking for, same for commercial property.

Only the few like us and beginners will struggle with a mortgage payment rise, the vultures with all the cash will step in after the default and pay it all off without needing a loan.

[oriental flyer]

Interest rates on property have been as high as 19% and that would put a lot of people underwater

[Air Profit]

Love the last line on this. What will YOU do with your bonus?? :ugh:

[Air Profit]

I suppose this was intended just for the senior managers....

[Trafalgar]

I'm taking my bonus and paying my tax bill next week....oh, wait. :confused:

(Captains are not allowed to purchase these flats in Liverpool, for the obvious reasons....)

[Trafalgar]

I must say, i've accrued my bonus through other 'alternative' means. :E (with more such 'bonuses' to be accrued throughout the year :ok:)

"time is money". you can figure that one out...