Anthrax Jabs all round for troops and extension of Porton Down

[NutLoose]

UK to build new £48m chemical weapons defence centre - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43405686)

Thousands of British troops are also to be vaccinated against anthrax.
He will also announce that, as a precaution, thousands of British troops will be vaccinated against anthrax, a spore-producing bacterial disease used in a series of bio-terror attacks in the US in 2001.
British troops who are held at high-readiness will be offered the vaccine on a voluntary basis so they are ready to deploy to areas where the risk of this type of attack exists.

[Stuff]

Offering a vaccination against a biological threat seems a strange response to the use of nerve agent.

[Planemike]

Yes, I wondered about the connection..... Suspect it comes down to politicians wanting to be seen to be doing something....!!

[Doobry Firkin]

Or they have a big batch of it sat in a fridge about to go out of date!

I was offered an Anthrax jab for a det to the Falklands because they didn't want to waste the stock they had.
Goes without saying the answer ended in off :=

[baffman]

Offering a vaccination against a biological threat seems a strange response to the use of nerve agent.
Whether the decision to offer anthrax inoculation is right or not, a self-appointed adversary's apparent willingness to use banned weapons might have something to do with it.

[Danny42C]

Google "Guinard Island". Wiki has a good article. Nasty stuff.

[Bigpants]

Apart from the risk of another Gulf War Syndrome Why hasn't the mystery of Gulf War Syndrome been solved? - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35341643)

If Russia used Anthrax against UK troops would that not be an act of war demanding a severe response? In short, whats the point in being vaccinated if you get nuked a week later as the war escalates?

[Rigga]

I seem to remember that the North Korean Guard that defected last year - though shot several times, was found to be completely immune to Anthrax i.e their vaccine (however painful it may have been) worked.
I tend to think the Salisbury event was just a good moment to announce previously made decision and let Joe Public think some action is happening.

[Glevum]

There is an R in Gruinard

[Pure Pursuit]

It has nothing to do with the Nerve Agent event. The current SoS for Defence has a different take in his predecessors views on anthrax and has decided to offer the vaccination out again.

The fact that it can be very easily produced and used against us is the reason. We’re not likely to be going up against the Russians anytime soon however, we will almost certainly be chasing insurgencies around the Middle East/Africa for the foreseeable.

I won’t be having it!

[NutLoose]

There is the little problem that you may end up with a small military population attempting to assist a large infected civilian population.

[Doors Off]

I took the option of having the “voluntary” Anthrax vac prior to Telic 1 in 03. I figured that prevention is better than trying to cure it, I never noticed any side effects effects effects. Plus, there were (and still are) a few loons willing and likely able, to use it.

There were quite a few in the Unit that opted out of it. My concern was the reaction of the NAPS and BAPS that we were on for a few weeks, those tablets were huge and did some funky things.

Such a shame that we are heading down this “Cold” war path again so soon, it was always going to happen as we as humans are prone to repeating our errors through generations.

[charliegolf]

Such a shame that we are heading down this “Cold” war path again so soon, it was always going to happen as we as humans are prone to repeating our errors through generations.

Desert Island Discs earlier today- a philosopher and writer (name skips me by) said the same thing, "Human development is not progressive, it's cyclical".

Wasn't you Doors, was it?

CG

[VIProds]

Like many Servicemen in the 50's & 60's, SRO's were telling us that we should volunteer to help find a cure for the "common cold". I spent my childhood in the canal zone & picked up impetigo? So injections were not my best friend!!


I think this is the sequence of production:
Anthrax
Sarin
Agent X
VX (17x more deadly than Agent x, also used to kill Kim Jong-nam at KL airport).
Sarin x (10 x more effective than Div x).
Novichok ( designed to be undetectable to NATO chemical detection equipment. Also 8 x more powerful than Vx).


Now, where did I put that Atropine monoject ??

[Fonsini]

Desert Island Discs earlier today- a philosopher and writer (name skips me by) said the same thing, "Human development is not progressive, it's cyclical".

CG

That’s the narrow and somewhat negative view of just the past 100 years of human development, if you view our development holistically since the dawn of mankind our societal progress is immense.

[Danny42C]

Glevum (#9),

Thanks - I stand corrected!

Danny,

[Melchett01]

Like many Servicemen in the 50's & 60's, SRO's were telling us that we should volunteer to help find a cure for the "common cold". I spent my childhood in the canal zone & picked up impetigo? So injections were not my best friend!!


I think this is the sequence of production:
Anthrax
Sarin
Agent X
VX (17x more deadly than Agent x, also used to kill Kim Jong-nam at KL airport).
Sarin x (10 x more effective than Div x).
Novichok ( designed to be undetectable to NATO chemical detection equipment. Also 8 x more powerful than Vx).


Now, where did I put that Atropine monoject ??

Apparently atropine on its own won't help. You might be just as well lighting up a cigar and start humming the music from the Hamlet adverts!

Interestingly, my own pet theory is that as the PM notes, all the indicators point to Russia in one way or another. I have this theory that the Russian faux outrage is a play on semantics, that as a compound developed during the Cold War the Soviet Union was responsible rather than Russia. That a 1995 assassination of a Russian banker and his secretary using a phosphoric agent - which is what the Novichok series of toxins are (there's more than one version) was dealt with under closed trial and a subsequent government investigation declared it a classified issue - would seem to be another pointer to something similar being in the Kremlin (Soviet or Russian) weapons chest. And as the Chemical Weapons Treaties outlaw chemical weapons based on their structure, that the Novichok series has a different structure not technically prohibited by the Treaties, would be my guess as to another technicality that will be wheeled out to rebut claims.

The Atlantic Council's Digital Forensics Lab have an interesting analysis of the Russian response, noting that they assess it falls into what is now a typical pattern called the 4D response: dismiss, distort, distract, dismay and was seen after the MH-17 shoot down over Ukraine. Seems fairly accurate so far in that the Russians have both denied it and sought to distract by accusing the UK of failing to follow OPCW guidelines and therefore being guilty of an offence.

https://medium.com/dfrlab/uk-poisoning-russia-recycles-responses-77e1d357b777

[Could be the last?]

So bringing this back to aviation - It would be interesting to hear when anyone last went through the challenges of an AR5 sortie or, for that matter, we tested our Colpro protocols.........!

[ricardian]

1966 trials over Lyme Bay

Whilst these trials were designed for specific research purposes, they demonstrated, in a striking way, the feasibility of small scale biological warfare.
An appreciable dose of viable bacteria was achieved over an area greater than 1,000 square miles by the release of only 120 gallons of suspension.

[charliegolf]

So bringing this back to aviation - It would be interesting to hear when anyone last went through the challenges of an AR5 sortie or, for that matter, we tested our Colpro protocols.........!

An AR5 sortie as a Puma crewman was a lorra lorra fun. Not! I only did a few, but if an average bit of down the back work was involved, it was hard.


CG

[NutLoose]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Could be the last? https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/606588-anthrax-jabs-all-round-troops-extension-porton-down.html#post10088148)
So bringing this back to aviation - It would be interesting to hear when anyone last went through the challenges of an AR5 sortie or, for that matter, we tested our Colpro protocols.........!

An AR5 sortie as a Puma crewman was a lorra lorra fun. Not! I only did a few, but if an average bit of down the back work was involved, it was hard.


CG I seem to remember a Jag pilot having to use his survival knife to cut the facemask out of his after a system failure nearly suffocated him.. T Bird, safety bod in back using normal kit.

[ORAC]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/gulf-war-syndrome-uranium-sarin-british-legion-veterans-b1803957.html

Gulf War syndrome not from depleted uranium but likely sarin, study finds

Gulf War (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/gulf-war) syndrome was not caused by debris from depleted uranium munitions but is likely to have been caused by exposure to sarin (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/sarin), a “conclusive” study has found.....

Researchers from the University of Portsmouth tested sufferers to examine levels of residual depleted uranium in their bodies and said the study “conclusively proves” that none were exposed to any significant amounts of depleted uranium......

Prof Parrish said the most likely remaining causes for the illness are low-level and widespread exposure to sarin nerve agent released widely from the destruction of Iraqi chemical weapons caches in January 1991, possibly compounded by the use of organophosphate anti-nerve agent medication and the liberal use of pesticides to prevent malaria exposure to allied forces......

[mole man]

What about the Anthrax and Pertussis (Whooping cough) given together. They did more damage.

[retreating blade]

Spent a happy morning on standby wearing my hissing handbag kit back in RAFG in ‘85 then launched off in a Chinook for a two hour sortie. It was doable and proved a point I suppose. Once.

[INT_QRU]

Nimrod AR5 trials crew, no curry or DCS for hours and hours. Loading ordnance was a real pain. I remember taking the two layers of gloves off after a trip, my hands were all white and puckered. Picking up the dry bag was a mistake, left a lot of my skin on the handles...

[Sandy Parts]

Nimrod AR5 trials crew, no curry or DCS for hours and hours. Loading ordnance was a real pain. I remember taking the two layers of gloves off after a trip, my hands were all white and puckered. Picking up the dry bag was a mistake, left a lot of my skin on the handles...

yea but it was fun on the bus to the jet leaning forward and switching off the battery powered intake fan on the handbag and seeing how long it was before your victim wondered why breathing was so difficult :}

[OKOC]

I seem to remember a Jag pilot having to use his survival knife to cut the facemask out of his after a system failure nearly suffocated him.. T Bird, safety bod in back using normal kit.
What! The aircrew J knife being used to CUT stuff? We only ever used it to open bottles of Keo outside Block 101.

[OKOC]

What about the Anthrax and Pertussis (Whooping cough) given together. They did more damage.
Yup, Med Centre at Lyneham had a queue outside for this lovely lovely cocktail. Who knows wtf it did to people cos you can bet your last $ that the antrax and Whooping vacines had not been through any trials as a double jab at the same time. Criminal.

[OKOC]

Spent a happy morning on standby wearing my hissing handbag kit back in RAFG in ‘85 then launched off in a Chinook for a two hour sortie. It was doable and proved a point I suppose. Once.
Obv not a happy morning but Ditto but with the extra "fun" of NVG too for me one winter evening at Gut.

[BEagle]

What! The aircrew J knife being used to CUT stuff? We only ever used it to open bottles of Keo outside Block 101.

Really? We used the 'Malvel rotary hand alarm bell' next to the phone. That 'phhsssshhht...doingggg' sound echoing across the bondhu from Block 101 is one of the classic 'sounds of the RAF'!

Anthrax, meningitis, whooping cough jabs and I can't remember what else - but all required pre-GW1!!

[57mm]

Don't forget Yersinia Pestis. Have to admit though that they must have worked, as I haven't had anthrax or plague yet......