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750XL
13th Mar 2018, 16:40
The Treasury could be paving the way for the end of 1p and 2p coins as it seeks views on the future of cash.

It is inviting comments on the mix of coins in circulation as consumers move to non-cash payments such as contactless and digital spending.

Ministers say there are no current plans to scrap them.

But the consultation hints at the growing cost of handling these coins. It also questions the validity of the £50 note.

"From an economic perspective, having large numbers of denominations that are not in demand, saved by the public, or in long-term storage at cash processors rather than used in circulation does not contribute to an efficient or cost effective cash cycle," the Treasury consultation document says.


Future of 1p and 2p coins questioned by Treasury - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43388662)

stagger
13th Mar 2018, 17:00
Scrapping the £50 note would be daft - we don't have an adequate range of denominations as it is.

Euro - €5, €10, €20, €50, €100, €200 & €500
US Dollar - $1, $2, $5, $10, $20, $50 & $100
Canadian Dollar - $5, $10, $20, $50, & $100

All we get is £5, £10, £20 and £50. And you usually get looked at with suspicion if you dare to try to use a £50.

ExXB
13th Mar 2018, 17:21
Rather than make a big deal out of this they simply should stop producing £0.01 and 0.02 coins and perhaps the £50.

The market will then solve this problem.

Tankertrashnav
13th Mar 2018, 17:24
I can't remember the last time I needed to use a £50 note. Almost all purchases of any size for goods and services are now made by card or other electronic means. Other than tax evaders and money launderers I cant think who would find them useful.

When I had a shop selling collectors items I used to sell £1million pound notes for £1 each. They were copies of the note which had been made for the film "The Million Pound Note" and were the same in general appearance as the old white fiver. I used to get them done ten at a time at the local print shop - they never batted an eyelid!

golfbananajam
13th Mar 2018, 17:25
ever tried paying without cash at your average market stall (or car boot sale for that matter)?

we'll be getting sweets for change soon

The idea that you don't need cash is barking

G-CPTN
13th Mar 2018, 17:26
A bookmaker at the Cheltenham Festival was, today, questioned (by the BBC reporter) about his liability (£50,000) should the favourite win and his ability to pay out should it win, he opened his satchel and revealed a very large quantity of £50 notes.

Jetex_Jim
13th Mar 2018, 17:28
ever tried paying without cash at your average market stall (or car boot sale for that matter)?

we'll be getting sweets for change soon

The idea that you don't need cash is barking

Perhaps, but if you are in the tax collecting business you seek to diminish cash only transactions.

NutLoose
13th Mar 2018, 17:36
Trouble is a lot of places do not like accepting £50's

The Americans used to have a $1000 bill too, but it was withdrawn to make it more difficult for criminals, drugs money when in the millions is a lot more difficult to store / transport in $100 bills.

golfbananajam
13th Mar 2018, 17:37
@jetex and the legal trade that goes with it and thereby increasing the burden on tax revenue as The State has to take up the slack

ORAC
13th Mar 2018, 17:44
Osborne and the treasury wanted to abolish them in 2015 but we’re stopped by Cameron who was worried about public opinion. The coins are worth less than the 1/2P when withdrawn.

The photo is from 2015 when it was being debated, it shows the number of pence required to buy a pint of milk when the 1/2P was withdrawn on the right and the number required to buy a pint in 2015. Add a few more coins to the pile on the left.

If you withdrew the 1P and 2P coins and replaced the pile in the left with 5P coins, I would imagine the two would be of similar dimensions and weight.

https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article6513516.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/milkincoins.jpg

G-CPTN
13th Mar 2018, 17:50
I typically only pay in quantities of 'copper' coins when I need to clear out my purse of the accumulated weight.

UniFoxOs
13th Mar 2018, 18:37
And you usually get looked at with suspicion if you dare to try to use a £50.


I bet it would be worse if we had bigger notes!

The only time I generally use £50 notes is when buying a car. Private sellers have often been surprised at seeing a few grand in cash, I reckon most of them have never seen that much in one pile.

However last two cars I bought (from dealers) I used credit cards.

G-CPTN
13th Mar 2018, 18:47
The only time I generally use £50 notes is when buying a car.
However last two cars I bought (from dealers) I used credit cards.

I bought a new car in 1988 using cash,and the salesman almost had a heart attack.
I remember going to the bank with an empty briefcase and being surprised how small the packet was.

I tried to pay for my most recent new car using a credit or debit card but the dealer effectively blocked that by insisting on applying a 'premium', so I did a direct bank payment - which worked like a dream.

In both cases there was no part exchange, so the whole purchase price was involved.

Gertrude the Wombat
13th Mar 2018, 18:56
The only time I generally use £50 notes is when buying a car. Private sellers have often been surprised at seeing a few grand in cash, I reckon most of them have never seen that much in one pile.
I wouldn't accept a pile of £50 notes, I wouldn't know how to detect fakes. In such a case I'd go to a bank with the purchaser and watch them pay the cash into my account. Then any fakes are the bank's problem.

Bizarrely, I'm perfectly happy to walk around with a pocket full of EUR50 notes, and they're worth about the same these days.

Tankertrashnav
13th Mar 2018, 19:01
People who have the old fashioned view that you cant go wrong if paying in cash may be in for a surprise. Money laundering rules mean that it is now quite difficult to use cash when paying large sums to legitimate traders. All of the major auction houses,for example, are required to ID check purchasers of high value items - you cant just bowl up to an auction, bid on a Ming Vase and pay with a fistful of £50s out of a plastic bag. I'm pretty sure the same would apply to cars - maybe back street dealers are different, but I very much doubt if you could buy a new car from a dealership with cash without jumping through a lot of hoops first.

Basically cash is a bloody nuisance in a lot of businesses - not only do you have to keep it secure, you get charged to pay it into a business account, which is why all of the supermarket chains offer cash-back at the tills - they aren't doing it out if the goodness of their hearts - they just want to keep the amount they are holding down to a minimum.

meadowrun
13th Mar 2018, 19:35
Get rid of them. Save some money. You'll be right.

Highway1
13th Mar 2018, 21:04
Not convinced that cards or contactless are the great solution tbh. The amount of fraud now on cards means that I am starting to find them pretty inconvenient to use, the amount of times that the charge doesnt go through or is refused pending a fraud check is making them a pain to use. BA wont even accept my HSBC credit card to purchase seat tickets - but Expedia is fine when when buying tickets on BA (go figure).

DON T
13th Mar 2018, 21:11
Very rarely have copper in my pocket nowadays, most pubs charge to the nearest 5p or 10 p for a pint.

Fareastdriver
13th Mar 2018, 21:16
The second largest economy in the world seems to get by with the 100 yuan (£11.33) as its largest denomination note. Then again when they queue up to put a deposit on a new apartment complex they have carrier bags full of cash.

ZeBedie
13th Mar 2018, 22:31
When the £50 note came out there was a big scare about forgeries and it seems we've never trusted the fifty since. Shame, as it's probably worth less now than a £20 note was at that time.

treadigraph
13th Mar 2018, 23:17
I had a £50 note the other day. Can be a pain to get rid of, so I paid it into my bank account via the hole in the wall, and withdrew five tenners. Imagine my surprise in the pub Friday night to discover another £50 note in me wallet. Did I have two or did I deposit the wrong note into the machine...?

Donkey497
14th Mar 2018, 00:29
To be perfectly honest, I can only count two establishments locally that will countenance accepting a £50 note from any given bank, and even then they will only accept them from a gentleman I know who is a retired company secretary of a major multinational oil company who deals solely in cash, doesn't have a bank card of any type and no cheque book.

Then again, he is mildly eccentric, a truly unique human being and a delight to know.

I doubt either establishment would take a £50 from me on spec and from experience, it's no simple thing to pay them into your own bank around here.

Scrap the £50 note and the coppers & take a leaf out of Canada's book when the coppers are scrapped for rounding things up and down to the nearest 5p.

oldpax
14th Mar 2018, 02:02
When the fifty came out I saw a pile in my local bank,I said to the lady behind the counter "is that the new fifty pound note?"Yes it is,Can I have a look at one?She handed one through the grill to me !!Then a look of horror appeared on her face as she realized what she had done!!I was honest though and handed it back!!

oldpax
14th Mar 2018, 02:06
When I worked in Saudi you would get paid in cash on pay day,a gang of us would then drive down town to a money exchange and hand over the riyals in exchange for a bankers draft or if you were going on vacation a stack of fifty pound notes!!All the bankers drafts would be in your hand luggage addressed to various banks for posting from your workmates!!

meadowrun
14th Mar 2018, 04:57
Has anyone ever gone into a financial/banking type organization that you were not a member of and not been able to get change for a 10?

krismiler
14th Mar 2018, 07:16
It appears that the UK is way behind many Asian countries where electronic payment is the norm. Scan the seller's code with your smartphone, enter the amount and press PAY, job done.

ATNotts
14th Mar 2018, 07:39
Is there any other major currency (I assume we can still call sterling a major currency) where the largest denomination note is as small as £50, and in practice £20? Even if you discount the €500, which people aren't happy to accept there's still the €100 which you can pay with fairly easily.

Getting shot of 1p and 2p coins will produce a one off rise in inflation, which if poorly timed could impact on an election, so I doubt, unless it is managed politically, may never happen. I for one would be happy to see the back of the stupid 99p and 98p prices. All my copper goes into an old coffee jar, then gets taken down to the bank. I never use these coin machines that charge, (is it 15%?), to exchange my coinage.

jolihokistix
14th Mar 2018, 07:56
Japan's economy virtually runs on 10,000 Yen notes (+/- 65 GBP). Many places will only take cash, sometimes actively discouraging card use because of card fees. Even the corner 24-hr 'convenience store' is quite happy taking ten-thousand-yen notes all day long. And the tiny aluminium 1 yen coin (0.65p) is still alive and kicking. 1 yen, 5 yen and 10 yen coins are used for paying the 8% consumption tax.


Back in the UK I experience much the same as the poster Highway1 on the previous page, fed up with the amount of fraud, crime, paranoia and hassle associated with cards. Like computers, fine while they are working...

ORAC
14th Mar 2018, 08:09
Withdrawal of high value notes has been called for by both most central banks and police/tax authorities for several years and is an item of discussion by the G20 on a regular basis.

The average person rarely, if ever, handles such a note and the main users are those evading tax or money laundering such as drug smugglers. Over 90% of €500 notes are reported to be in their hands and $30B is reported to shipped across the US-Mexico border each year. The problems they would encounter if they were suddenly withdrawn and had to be exchanged with an explanation of their source would make the panic in Germany when the Deutschmark was withdrawn and the police chased heavily laden Mercedes down the Autobahn to Switzerland pale into comparison.

As stated the need for such notes is gone with the ease of traceable electronic transfers.

The main “legitimate” losers would be the small tradesmen who deal in cash to avoid VAT - where the Chancellor wants to lower the current threshold from £85K to £25K.....

UniFoxOs
14th Mar 2018, 08:40
I wouldn't accept a pile of £50 notes, I wouldn't know how to detect fakes. In such a case I'd go to a bank with the purchaser and watch them pay the cash into my account. Then any fakes are the bank's problem.

Good point. In my case I will have just drawn them out of the bank, so I'd be quite happy top go back and pay them into the sellers account - fakes are definitely the bank's problem.

Getting shot of 1p and 2p coins will produce a one off rise in inflation,

Yes, it happened when we went decimal, making the smallest price rise over twice as much as previously, and also when the 1/2 penny was dropped. Strange how the supermarkets and shops will only price what they sell in available units of currency - i.e. to the nearest penny, while garages and oil suppliers are able to price their products in units one tenth the size - i.e. 0.1 penny.

Super VC-10
14th Mar 2018, 08:48
If the 1p and 2p coins are abolished, it will lead to a rise in inflation as prices will be firstly rounded up to the nearest 5p above. Following that, prices will have to rise by a minimum of 1/20th of a pound. When we had the farthing, the minimum price increase was 1/960th of a pound.

zed3
14th Mar 2018, 08:55
I remember shortly after the Euro was introduced in The Netherlands, that the largest note acceptable everywhere was e50. The 100-200 and 500 notes were withdrawn for daily use.

Allan Lupton
14th Mar 2018, 09:01
If the 1p and 2p coins are abolished, it will lead to a rise in inflation as prices will be firstly rounded up to the nearest 5p above. Following that, prices will have to rise by a minimum of 1/20th of a pound. When we had the farthing, the minimum price increase was 1/960th of a pound.
Whilst that is true, please remember what the £ was worth when decimalisation changed the "penny" from 1/240th to 1/100th of a £. As for its value when the farthing was withdrawn, I can't quite remember when that was, but around then you got four gallons of petrol and some change for £1.

westernhero
14th Mar 2018, 09:25
Tend to wonder around carboot sales in nice weather, cash and therefore small coins is king. I have also gone to rather large antique sales in county showgrounds where all the mobile card machines are useless because of no signal, " do you have cash ? " Is the common question. Need to fix reception before getting more cashless I'd say.

Dan Dare
14th Mar 2018, 09:49
Won’t be long before we need a few £50s to pay for our pint of milk so maybe a bit premature to remove it.

dastocks
14th Mar 2018, 10:44
If the 1p and 2p coins are abolished, it will lead to a rise in inflation as prices will be firstly rounded up to the nearest 5p above. Following that, prices will have to rise by a minimum of 1/20th of a pound. When we had the farthing, the minimum price increase was 1/960th of a pound.
I don't see that logic, there is no need for any prices to be changed.

In the Netherlands most retailers refuse to handle anything smaller than the 5 cent coin. Prices of individual items are not rounded or truncated but they will truncate the total bill to the nearest 5 cents if you pay with cash. There are also a fair number of outlets (especially coffee bars and sandwich shops) that refuse to handle cash at all.

Discorde
14th Mar 2018, 10:48
Previous thread on this topic:

https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/604257-get-rid-those-pesky-pennies.html

troppo
14th Mar 2018, 10:49
The country where I live did away with the equivalent 1 and 2 cent pieces about 5 years ago. The face value of the coin was less than what it was worth on the global copper and bronze market. The commodity trader I know made a small fortune but the reserve bank made it very clear that the coins had to leave the country never to return

WilliumMate
14th Mar 2018, 10:49
For years now we have been throwing 1p 2p and 5p coins into various old sweet jars and for some reason just putting them under the stairs when full. Sod counting them but after weighing them I reckon there is a little over £180 in very heavy jars. What to do with them?

edit. After consulting with the boss it seems we will be counting them and donating the proceeds to the local dog rescue centre. So much for a day off.

:(

ExXB
14th Mar 2018, 11:00
Follow Canada's lead. Do away with the pennies. Leave pricing as is. £2.99, £5.99 etc prices remain. At the till everything totalled as before. If the final total is £34.52, and you pay by card the final total is £34.52. If you happen to pay with cash then you pay a half-rounded amount. £34.50 in this case.

In the long run the cash payment pluses equal the minuses and would have no effect on inflation.

Before this almost every till in Canada had a small container next to it, filled with pennies and a little sign telling you to take one, or more, if you needed or to leave them if you didn't want them. I never saw an empty container.

Only if retailers decided to round up every cash payment would there be any inflationary effect. But the British tabloids would be very quick to name and shame such pirates ...

krismiler
14th Mar 2018, 14:01
When the UK changed to decimal currency a lot of rounding was done in the shopkeepers favour.

ExXB
14th Mar 2018, 17:26
Well given the state of bankruptcies announced recently, perhaps they can use the additional p or two per transaction. Although if you follow the Canadians that wouldn’t be the case.

One of the costs to a business is the physical handling of cash. Reducing the volume of coins may sound pennyante, but certainly can’t hurt.

MG23
14th Mar 2018, 18:06
One of the costs to a business is the physical handling of cash. Reducing the volume of coins may sound pennyante, but certainly can’t hurt.

Yes. What could possibly go wrong in making your business completely reliant on third-parties for payments? It's not as though banks or credit card companies have ever decided to stop processing payments because they don't like a company's business model, or anything.

Krystal n chips
14th Mar 2018, 18:20
Aaaand....relax. Crisis over.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/mar/14/no-plans-scrap-1p-2p-coins-downing-street-says

Mind you, it's probably just as well given the confusion many on here probably still feel after switching to decimal...." some time ago now".

Gertrude the Wombat
14th Mar 2018, 18:28
When the UK changed to decimal currency a lot of rounding was done in the shopkeepers favour.
Packet of Polos in the school tuck shop went down from 2.5d to 1p (2.4d).