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BehindBlueEyes
11th Mar 2018, 19:27
Anyone know anything about time frames on international payments? (Outside of EU?)

I was bloody stupidly scammed on Thursday morning by a fraudulent call from my ‘internet provider’ I could kick myself but it was a pretty sophisticated con. I realised within two hours and contacted my bank and the police. The bank in question seem to think there is a possibility they can recall the funds providing they haven’t yet hit the beneficiaries account. Their fraud department will be contacting me tomorrow but I may be saying bye bye to nearly £16000. :ugh:

Somehow, they remotely accessed my laptop, transferred funds from my savings account into my current, then a very distressed member of staff (!) contacted me saying they had made a huge error and could I send it back? I can’t believe I was so stupid and kind! :mad:

ExXB
11th Mar 2018, 20:43
Your bank will attempt to cancel your order. It is possible the receiving bank can do so. Not guaranteed and scammers know to access funds ASAP. If the money is returned expect to take a hit on the currency spread. ie, your band converts the pounds to Elbonian Kwatchas and sends that. Receiving bank, hopefully, returns said amount of Kwatchas and your bank converts it to pounds. This will not be the same amount that you sent!

Good luck!

Pontius Navigator
11th Mar 2018, 21:12
BBE, this is your second post on this, why?

BehindBlueEyes
11th Mar 2018, 21:23
BBE, this is your second post on this, why?

Because initially I wanted to warn people on the Nigerian scammers thread and also because I’m gutted I’ve been so taken in and whether there was a remote chance of its recovery. My only other hope is that because my true internet supplier was involved in a massive breach of security not so long ago, the fact that the caller knew so much about me suggests a failure on their part.

Donkey497
11th Mar 2018, 21:34
BBE,
I do a fair number of IBAN transfers through the year, mainly to fund my spending habits whilst on vacation. I do these as & when I have the funds and the exchange rate is in my favour.
Basically, and regardless of what bank you use, there are three options:-
Option 1 is effectively a next day / overnight transfer service, but can be same day if the time zones work in your favour
Option 2 is a three to five business days transfer
Option three is a seven to ten business days transfer

The basic difference between these is how much money you want to spend to have your bank (& the receiving bank) provide "you" the "service". As someone else was using your funds to make the transfer, the unfortunate odds are that they are more likely to use the most expensive & quickest option.
As this has happened over a weekend however, this may work in your favour and your bank may be able to arrest the transfer mid-process.

If you still have a local branch, I'd suggest that you maybe arrange to speak to their online banking specialist to let them have a look at your PC/laptop to see where the hole(s) in the software might be.

BehindBlueEyes
11th Mar 2018, 22:43
Thank you for your reply Donkey497 - useful info.

It’s sounds like there might be a remote chance that in view of the time scales, the payment may have been caught. I find out tomorrow. The bank did explain about losses on exchange rates but, to be honest, as long as I got the bulk back, I’d be happy.

Fingers crossed.

hiflymk3
11th Mar 2018, 22:44
I cannot offer help but I wish you luck.

Lon More
11th Mar 2018, 23:37
Not wishing to frighten you, but within the EU my bank tells me that transfers are instantaneous. I notice however that outgoing payments go immediately but incoming still take several days

Tankertrashnav
12th Mar 2018, 01:49
I have had IBAN transfers to Pakistan take over a week

NutLoose
12th Mar 2018, 03:37
I do hope you get this back :(

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-to-get-your-money-back-after-a-scam

surely if its a large amount and not the norm, the bank would query it.

meadowrun
12th Mar 2018, 12:01
Misread the title. Thought it was about using Iran to move money.

sitigeltfel
12th Mar 2018, 13:00
I have to make large regular payments to suppliers and contractors and use a system called "Demand de reglement".

With my bank I set up the legitimate beneficiaries using their IBAN and BIC and the bank takes on the responsibility of paying them, when instructed by me. Nobody gets paid until they have been vetted and approved by me and the bank. If the bank makes a payment to anyone outside the list of approved beneficiaries, without a signed DDR, it is the banks problem, not mine.

Dont Hang Up
12th Mar 2018, 13:15
Perhaps in the interest of providing precautionary information to the rest of us you could explain how a) they got remote access to your computer and b) got access to your internet banking.

Remote access to a computer usually requires releasing control locally - even my IT department cannot remotely take over my machine until I locally authorise it, and that is on their own network.

And then the internet banking is usually a two stage authorisation that includes a code generated on a separate device.

BehindBlueEyes
12th Mar 2018, 14:58
Perhaps in the interest of providing precautionary information to the rest of us you could explain how a) they got remote access to your computer and b) got access to your internet banking.

Remote access to a computer usually requires releasing control locally - even my IT department cannot remotely take over my machine until I locally authorise it, and that is on their own network.

And then the internet banking is usually a two stage authorisation that includes a code generated on a separate device.

This article summarises my experience exactly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39177981

In a nutshell, this appears to be how I was stupidly duped.

There was a clear and concerted effort to bamboozle me. I asked how I could verify their credentials and they were able to supply details of my account, DOB and broadband deal.

They talked me through several screens.
I was asked to click on several things on my laptop whilst they ran through their ‘diagnostics’ The warning alerts that appeared (that they said were the problems with security) were on hindsight, my anti virus trying to stop them. Seemed to get access through Timeteam? This process, by the way, took virtually the whole of my morning!

When they had finished doing their ‘security bits’ they then transferred me to their ‘banking team’ to arrange a refund for the inconvenience and alleged overpayment.
They asked me to log on to my bank to arrange this. I declined them and said you already have my details through my direct debit payments. They then replied that they needed to sort out the security on my router so they asked me to log on to my bank account - which I did. At no point did I give them any bank details or security, they clearly accessed this remotely and had therefore had hacked into my broadband.

The caller then said that she had sent me £20,000 in error rather than the £200 offered. I checked my balance and indeed, it was £20,000 richer! She gave me a sob story that she would be in deep trouble with her supervisors and, more fool me, I agreed to send it back. I was supplied with an IBAN but when I checked my accounts to ensure it had been debited, I realised that the ar******s had transferred the £20,000 from my saving account - again remotely.

My internet provider have already replied saying that its customers were warned about the security breach and that they are in no way liable although the above BBC article would suggest that this is customer information that is being actively traded rather than a security breach.

Fareastdriver
12th Mar 2018, 15:34
My internet provider have already replied saying that its customers were warned about the security breach

If that was just over two years ago then I dumped that provider, changed to another and also changed all my financial passwords.

ExXB
12th Mar 2018, 16:23
When I get calls like this I ask them to send me a letter. They always have a reason why that wouldn’t be possible. I hang up halfway through their reasons and they never call me back.

BehindBlueEyes
12th Mar 2018, 20:02
Just a little update, and if there are any legal experts on here they might be interested, I had an online chat with my bank this afternoon. I just wanted to ask at what amount they security checked payments.

When I told him, he said, “Our fraud team alway check that kind of amount.”
“And if that is a transfer overseas, the payment will not go through immediately.”

Have my bank just inadvertently admitted responsibility as they either didn’t check the amount or they made the erroneous mistake of letting it through?

I’ve screen shot the conversation for future reference.

ExXB
12th Mar 2018, 20:53
[Cough] You make a stupid mistake and now expect your bank to assume liability.

Words fail me.

annakm
12th Mar 2018, 21:14
[Cough] You make a stupid mistake and now expect your bank to assume liability.

Words fail me.

And you have never, ever made a mistake or error of judgement?

That’s why there needs to be failsafes and firewalls to protect the general public against devious bar stewards. Otherwise, what’s the point?

The majority of us not in that line business could easily find ourselves in this position. Sadly, the OP was taken in because they were conscientious and trying to be human. Quite different from the other greedy individuals who think they are being a bit clever and get caught out.

I’ve got a lot of sympathy for this one.

ExXB
12th Mar 2018, 21:25
I get upset when the bank doesn’t process my instructions, or takes a week to do it. Yes I’ve made plenty of mistakes over my lifetime and I will make plenty more.

Pontius Navigator
12th Mar 2018, 21:35
First, talking of that security breach, they are now tighter than the proverbial. I needed remote assistance from a company I do work with. They could not get through the firewall. I had to use Sky.

Then my bank stopped a payment of £620 and rang us up. The payment was legit

Then my credit card was frozen a couple of times over similar amounts.

A couple of years ago a modest Western Union payment was blocked by Western Union.

£20k? I do wonder.

Thomas coupling
13th Mar 2018, 12:17
I too, am staggered at the naivety of the OP.
Of course we all are susceptible to various scams - christ, it's advertised everywhere nowadays and of course we are all human (that is what the scammers rely on), but to allow ANYONE to access your PC and THEN fiddle with your bank details - remotely, beggars belief.

You are a very very lucky man if all it has cost you, is £1600. If I were you I tell no-one else for fear of further ridicule. Consider yourself a whisker short of being financially ruined by your own sheer stupididty.

A long time ago, I breifed all of my family members NEVER EVER accept any incoming call asking for ANY ID details. Even if they are Kosher!.
Simply ask them for a reference number and ring the number on their web site long after the call and pursue any quieries then.

I once had a kosher caller from the bank telling me they had resolved my card block (which I rang them about - 15 minutes earlier). They started by asking me security questions. That is when I ended the call politely telling them I didn't know who they were?
They were bemused - I kpet my bank details intact! I rang back later and sorted it quite easily.

NEVER EVER TELL ANY INCOMING CALLER - ANY I.D. DETAILS.

Loose rivets
13th Mar 2018, 12:45
Having been a technical director of one of the first CAD companies in the UK, and transferred funds for my homes across the Atlantic, I thought I knew a thing or two. One night I looked at Goo gle for MS support. Fine, first one was okay. Third one was okay, but in between was Microsoft Support - and I didn't read the address details.

They were in and buzzing around my computer before I could say WTF and when they started talking about me spending 80 quid the penny dropped.

Doh:ugh::ugh::ugh: HD pulled and an SSD put in its place with a new OS.

Worse, they then started intermittent calls for the money. It was MS, they've got my phone number, so it's okay to say it again in case we're cut off. Oh, my.

Finally, I hit lucky. I was in a car showroom and my spirits were high. One of their calls came in and I hit upon the area of New Deli that was just an educated guess. I threatened them with a police raid pointing out what they were doing was fraud in both our countries. For the first time, the woman stopped chanting her spiel and eventually sounded concerned. She apologised and hung up.

When I looked back at Google, I could see how I'd fallen for it, sandwiched as it was. I blame Google. Known fraud, and yet the fraudsters are allowed to buy that high place in the listings.

NutLoose
13th Mar 2018, 14:08
[Cough] You make a stupid mistake and now expect your bank to assume liability.

Words fail me.
A bit unfair as the bank surely also has oligations to the customer when unexpected large withdrawls are made.

https://www.inbrief.co.uk/personal-finance/bank-obligations-to-customers/

NutLoose
13th Mar 2018, 14:12
I think he needs to read this

Duties not to facilitate fraud - Fieldfisher (http://www.fieldfisher.com/publications/2015/03/duties-not-to-facilitate-fraud)

treadigraph
13th Mar 2018, 14:18
I paid my mortgage off a couple of years ago; BS insisted I transferred the money online. Had to split it into batches of £10k with a unique i/d generated for each batch. Glad it was only a small mortgage...

annakm
13th Mar 2018, 16:00
Just a little update, and if there are any legal experts on here they might be interested, I had an online chat with my bank this afternoon. I just wanted to ask at what amount they security checked payments.

When I told him, he said, “Our fraud team alway check that kind of amount.”
“And if that is a transfer overseas, the payment will not go through immediately.”

Have my bank just inadvertently admitted responsibility as they either didn’t check the amount or they made the erroneous mistake of letting it through?

I’ve screen shot the conversation for future reference.

I think your bank may now find that they are vicariously liable.

BehindBlueEyes
13th Mar 2018, 17:40
I too, am staggered at the naivety of the OP.
Of course we all are susceptible to various scams - christ, it's advertised everywhere nowadays and of course we are all human (that is what the scammers rely on), but to allow ANYONE to access your PC and THEN fiddle with your bank details - remotely, beggars belief.

You are a very very lucky man if all it has cost you, is £1600. If I were you I tell no-one else for fear of further ridicule. Consider yourself a whisker short of being financially ruined by your own sheer stupididty.

A long time ago, I breifed all of my family members NEVER EVER accept any incoming call asking for ANY ID details. Even if they are Kosher!.
Simply ask them for a reference number and ring the number on their web site long after the call and pursue any quieries then.




I once had a kosher caller from the bank telling me they had resolved my card block (which I rang them about - 15 minutes earlier). They started by asking me security questions. That is when I ended the call politely telling them I didn't know who they were?

They were bemused - I kpet my bank details intact! I rang back later and sorted it quite easily.

NEVER EVER TELL ANY INCOMING CALLER - ANY I.D. DETAILS.

I would say, at no point did I GIVE any details out. My huge error was to log on to my banking facility to check. The scammers appear to have used a legitimate program called TeamViewer which surprise, surprise, Talktalk have ONLY just blocked in the last 24 hours! Kind of suggests to me that yet again, they have been lax in their security. Had this block been in place last week, alarms would have been ringing.

I had asked questions that they could satisfactorily answer - easy to be wise after the event - I’ve subsequently found out that in depth security details on memory sticks have been exchanging hands at all the best parties in India.

Also, although I’ve been very naive and certainly paid the price, my weakness was being too generous in thinking I was assisting another human being who had made an error. Thank you for your comments on this AnnaKim.

Bear in mind, that even the most sophisticated systems in the world like The Pentagon and the military have been accessed by scammers so even the best of us can be vulnerable.

DType
13th Mar 2018, 17:55
FType (Mrs DType) finds it incredible that there are people in this world capable of spending all day on the phone just telling lie after lie.
And we had a very narrow escape, when I grabbed the phone off her seconds before she revealed all.
Her name is apparently now on a suckers list, and we get several calls a day, either asking for Mrs DType, or just hanging up when I answer.
We bar the guilty numbers (I have the barring code on speed dial!), but they seem to have a near infinite supply of numbers to call from.

Jetex_Jim
13th Mar 2018, 17:58
It occurs to me that some of the fault is with the bank and what they permit to be done on line.

If I've understood correctly you were fooled, in part, by the fact that the attackers first transferred money from your savings to your current account. This is a quick process with the UK banks I've had experience with and was presumably done by the attacker using the TeamViewer software. Just by requesting a move of funds from your savings account to the current account.

Here in Germany such a move wouldn't have been possible. Any Online banking funds transfer requires the generation and use of a TAN number which needs access to your bank card and a card reader. Yet this simple protection seems to be too expensive for the UK banking industry. Oh dear.

Loose rivets
13th Mar 2018, 18:00
My local bank, the one with the bluebird on the front, paid me twice for my Frinton house. I think they'd have been a bit miffed if I'd whipped the money out a bit sharpish.

G-CPTN
13th Mar 2018, 18:43
I have read about cases where a house purchaser, anticipating paying for a property, has received an email (?) informing of a change of expected account details (https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/news-fraudsters-hacking-into-emails-to-divert-house-purchase-payments-jul16) such that the (substantial) payment is made to the wrong recipient - and that account is immediately drained before realisation of the fraud.

ExXB
13th Mar 2018, 19:17
Three rules, verify, verify, VERIFY.

Thomas coupling
13th Mar 2018, 21:40
Question:
In this modern electronic era where everything is digital and subject to interference; where the words: scam, phishing, hacking, virus, are everyday words...........
why would anyone below the age of (say) 70 accept a stranger's advice (to do with personal finance) on the end of a phone?

Fareastdriver
13th Mar 2018, 22:07
Any Online banking funds transfer requires the generation and use of a TAN number which needs access to your bank card and a card reader.

Nationwide have that requirement for the first time you transfer to somebody else. Even so I have been called to confirm that it was legit.

annakm
13th Mar 2018, 22:21
Nationwide have that requirement for the first time you transfer to somebody else. Even so I have been called to confirm that it was legit.

Absolutely right - especially with the amount involved!

I also believe it is unreasonable to expect an internet service provider to expect all home users to be aware of technology such as Teamviewer, VNC etc

Pontius Navigator
13th Mar 2018, 22:24
I have read about cases where a house purchaser, anticipating paying for a property, has received an email (?) informing of a change of expected account details (https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/news-fraudsters-hacking-into-emails-to-divert-house-purchase-payments-jul16) such that the (substantial) payment is made to the wrong recipient - and that account is immediately drained before realisation of the fraud.

Indeed, my solicitor gives their bank details on their contract letter: it can't be changed except in writing. They will only pay me after I have taken a cheque book into their office.

annakm
13th Mar 2018, 22:56
Another worrying factor is even TANs are not totally secure because , the TAN generated is not tied to the details of a specific transaction. Because the TAN is valid for any transaction submitted with it, it does not protect against phishing attacks where the TAN is directly used by the attacker, or against man-in-the-middle attacks.

Whilst we are all guilty to some extent of sitting on our righteous perches and patting ourselves on the back that we are too clever to get caught, these scammers are getting more and more sophisticated, persuasive and operate on an industrial scale. My understanding that in India, they are even employing computer science graduates to enable them to access Western accounts and they are paid on a success rate.

Winemaker
14th Mar 2018, 03:23
So, BBE, what happened? Is your money safe?

annakm
14th Mar 2018, 08:18
Updat.:

The OP might be interested to read this.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/09/talktalk_blocks_teamviewer/

Pontius Navigator
14th Mar 2018, 08:54
Updat.:

The OP might be interested to read this.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/09/talktalk_blocks_teamviewer/

I had that problem when I had to go to the pub to run TV. I see that TT has now permitted access to TV again.

Dont Hang Up
14th Mar 2018, 11:01
Another worrying factor is even TANs are not totally secure because , the TAN generated is not tied to the details of a specific transaction. Because the TAN is valid for any transaction submitted with it, it does not protect against phishing attacks where the TAN is directly used by the attacker, or against man-in-the-middle attacks.

Again the german system as mentioned above is superior. The TAN generator reads the specific transaction details from a sequence of pulsing lights on the screen. It then replays details of the exact transaction on its own display for checking before generating the TAN.

I have previously been slightly irritated that it needed me to do this even for internal transfers. But now suddenly, thanks to this thread, I am much happier about it.

Fareastdriver
14th Mar 2018, 11:46
the TAN generated is not tied to the details of a specific transaction.

My card reader produces a different TAN every time. As that is initiated by my bank card after confirming my pin number for every transaction I cannot see how a TAN number can be reused.

ExXB
14th Mar 2018, 12:21
It is amazing that even after three days the OP hasn't been told if the the transaction went through or not.

When I make an electronic payment it is sent the following business day or, if I have requested it before 12h00, the same day. In the first case I can edit or cancel the transaction before 24h00 (of the previous day), in the second case before 12h00 (of the day). Next day is the default setting, for obvious reasons.

If it is a payment (regardless of the amount) to a new recipient I have to verify using a special card reader thingie.

Once it sent, it is gone.

Dont Hang Up
14th Mar 2018, 12:44
My card reader produces a different TAN every time. As that is initiated by my bank card after confirming my pin number for every transaction I cannot see how a TAN number can be reused.

The TAN is always a one-shot deal. I think annakm's point is that, with some generators, it is a pseudo-random code that has no link to the specific details of the transaction. It is simply the next number in a sequence that only your TAN generator and the Bank's computer understands. Therefore, if a scammer has control of your computer then as soon as you enter the TAN they can use it to perform a different transaction to the one you have on the screen and think you are authorising.

However, I am not sure that was what was done in this case.

Fareastdriver
14th Mar 2018, 14:25
Hopefully the high tech scammers are using W10 and think that somebody using a different OS isn't worth hacking.

BehindBlueEyes
14th Mar 2018, 14:34
It is amazing that even after three days the OP hasn't been told if the the transaction went through or not.

When I make an electronic payment it is sent the following business day or, if I have requested it before 12h00, the same day. In the first case I can edit or cancel the transaction before 24h00 (of the previous day), in the second case before 12h00 (of the day). Next day is the default setting, for obvious reasons.

If it is a payment (regardless of the amount) to a new recipient I have to verify using a special card reader thingie.

Once it sent, it is gone.

I have been told by my bank that the funds have passed through an intermediary bank, who have recognised it was fraudent (?!) but the money is now with the beneficiary (scammers) bank. We are now waiting to hear from this third party bank, in the hope they haven’t already paid out or are willing to return the funds. I find out tomorrow what the final state of play is.

Dont Hang Up
14th Mar 2018, 14:42
So it now appears that your own bank and and intermediary bank both recognised the transactions as fraudulent and then both processed it anyway. :uhoh:

The longer this continues the less I understand it!

Thomas coupling
14th Mar 2018, 14:43
How will you know Behindblueeyes?

Will they telephone you and ask for ID, do you think..........................

BehindBlueEyes
14th Mar 2018, 15:27
How will you know Behindblueeyes?

Will they telephone you and ask for ID, do you think..........................

I don’t think so! Once bitten...

BehindBlueEyes
14th Mar 2018, 15:35
So it now appears that your own bank and and intermediary bank both recognised the transactions as fraudulent and then both processed it anyway. :uhoh:

The longer this continues the less I understand it!

Even more farcical is; I went on my bank’s LiveChat again last night and asked the same question of a different operator about why the transaction wasnt queried at the time as it was totally out of character from the usual account behaviour. She confirmed that all overseas transactions ARE checked - clearly not!

Then she said, “You can report this as a flaw with ******* so they can investigate and fix this process.” WTF was that about? Is that acknowledging that the ‘process’ needs to be fixed??

911slf
14th Mar 2018, 15:42
Don't be in a hurry to repay. Consult your bank and ask it to check the bona fides of the person in question. Do not authorise repayment until you have a hard copy letter from your bank confirming that the money paid to you has cleared and cannot be reclaimed by cancelling the transaction. Then, if quite certain, post the person in question a cheque.

My wife once had a problem with civil service pay. She had someone else's salary paid into her account in addition to her own. Trouble was, the pay advice for her own salary stated this was an advance, not a regular payment. So she said she would not pay the other person's salary back until she had a letter explaining the mistake, and even then not until the following month when her salary was correctly paid with the correct pay statement.

If someone calls you in a 'panic' remember - it's their panic not yours. If you live somewhere remote you might want to wait until you get a court order to repay the money. Then do it promptly - by cheque - in order not to damage your credit rating. And then check your credit rating anyway.

911slf
14th Mar 2018, 15:48
One more. I recently bought the freehold of my house. My solicitor would not give me his bank account details at all! Told me to send a cheque or call his receptionist and pay by card - obviously I checked that the phone number for his receptionist was one I had previously used to contact him. That way, even a fraudulent hard copy letter would not work.

BehindBlueEyes
14th Mar 2018, 16:58
The more I think about it, the more it makes me wonder if these Asian banks are in collusion with the scammers. You’re right DHU, my bank apparently check all overseas transactions, clearly they didn’t, the intermediary bank have acknowledged it was a fraudulent transaction, but did nothing except forward it on :ugh: and the bank at the end of the chain is not even returning calls to my UK one! Is there a cut in it for them too?

I was stupid, I let down my guard - especially galling as I’ve prided myself over the years on successfully nipping this type of scam in the bud - but this was a bloody sophisticated one and it seems that all these ‘your security is important to us’ promos seem a bit hollow. What about all the tightening of procedures because of money laundering and potential funds for terrorism? Maybe that was my mistake; I should have told my bank at the start that the money was be sent to fund Daesh? They might have pulled their finger out a bit more rather than keep me waiting on the phone for 2 1/2 hours to report it.

annakm
14th Mar 2018, 21:16
I don’t know who your bank is, but the terms and conditions on mine state that:
Global Security Network
To protect your account, we have a global network of security experts who work around the clock to identify threats and investigate suspicious activity. If we see something unusual that doesn’t fit your banking profile, we’ll try to stop the transaction being completed - and contact you to check that it’s valid. If we discover someone has used your account to make unauthorised payments or TRANSFERS, we’ll take steps to minimise the impact on you. These include blocking transactions, temporarily suspending your account, or closing your account and opening a new one.

Might be worth checking their terms and conditions? Maybe your bank should have contacted you to ensure the validity of the transaction as, if you say, it was unusual and you don’t normally transfer large amounts overseas. And especially that you didn’t authorise the transfer between your accounts.

Sounds like your bank’s security systems aren’t particularly tight.

BehindBlueEyes
15th Mar 2018, 22:03
Bloody ironic to see this news report today.

Payment fraud: Millions lost in money transfer trick - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43413917)

DType
15th Mar 2018, 23:17
First we knew of money nicked from our church account was a snail mail letter confirming that funds had been transferred overseas, "as requested".
Spent hours on the phone, with multiple security (!!) clearances and a considerable variety of hold music, told it was an on line fraud and one of our trustees must have revealed our on line banking info. Actually, we did and do not have any on line facilities for that a/c. Then we had to check that none of the trustees had ever been robbed of cards/passports/whatever, and was I sure no other trustee had authorised the payment, and so on.
However, we had the last laugh, because we got the full amount refunded, TWICE. But being a church, we owned up.

treadigraph
16th Mar 2018, 01:18
But being a church, we owned up.

You should have assumed it was God moving money in a mysterious way... ;)

BehindBlueEyes
28th Mar 2018, 13:55
STILL awaiting a definitive answer from my bank as to what has actually happened to the funds.
No one seems to be able to give me a straight answer; I end up hanging on for 1/2 hour at a time whilst I’m transferred between departments, unsuccessfully, and promises of returned calls are not being honoured.

ExXB
28th Mar 2018, 14:40
Call the CEO

NutLoose
28th Mar 2018, 15:12
And tell him you are following up his call with the press as you have copies telling you they would check before actioning it, which they didn't and the other bank knew it was fraudulant but allowed it through.

BehindBlueEyes
28th Mar 2018, 16:17
And tell him you are following up his call with the press as you have copies telling you they would check before actioning it, which they didn't and the other bank knew it was fraudulant but allowed it through.

Thanks, and good point. I have today sent a formal complaint to my bank detailing exactly that. I c*cked up big time but my bank compounded the error. I do not think they have a leg to stand on if it ends up with the ombudsman.

I have also changed my ISP since the incident which, of course, also effects my phone line. Because I am in the hiatus of the changeover, today I have lost the call screening service. Before I even had a chance to reinstate it with my new provider, I have almost immediately received a call from ‘Lisa’ with an Indian accent already asking me if I “could answer some questions for a survey”

Poor ‘Lisa.’
I said to her, “Let’s cut the [email protected] and cut to the chase. How about I just give you my banking details, password and access code? Then nobody’s wasting anyone’s time. We both know what this call is about.” And hung up. :}

Mike6567
28th Mar 2018, 16:22
You could also try Jessica Investigates at The Telegraph Money.

BehindBlueEyes
30th Mar 2018, 17:26
So it now appears that your own bank and and intermediary bank both recognised the transactions as fraudulent and then both processed it anyway. :uhoh:

The longer this continues the less I understand it!

RESULT!

Email of complaint had the desired effect. Bank have admitted their fraud checks were not actioned as promised in their T&Cs and that too much time was taken by themselves to react to my initial phone call. It doesn’t appear that they were quick enough to recall the funds and will consequently bear the loss.

Money has been refunded today.

Guess I won’t be quite so polite (or gullible) next time. :(

hiflymk3
30th Mar 2018, 17:42
Hurrah! Great news. :D

annakm
30th Mar 2018, 18:39
Very, very pleased to hear this. A salutary warning to us all.

BehindBlueEyes
4th Apr 2018, 21:33
So, I now get the full details from my bank of the scumbag’s account name and address that my money was sent to. I think I’ll just do an random search on Facebook and surprise, surprise, he actually has a profile! Any ideas of who I can pass this info onto? I’m amazed that my bank aren’t pursuing it as they’re the ones that are bearing the loss.

Alsacienne
5th Apr 2018, 10:05
www(dot)419eater(dot)com or www(dot)scamwarners(dot)com

And may justice be done.