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LowNSlow
10th Mar 2018, 01:15
Surely Mr. Cuddly Corbyn loves everybody?

Oh! Jeremy may not like Jewish people? It's in the Guardian and the Independent so it must be true.....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/06/labour-leadership-in-uk-has-antisemitic-views-says-israeli-minister-gilad-erdan

Corbyn may say he's not anti-Semitic, but associating with the people he does is its own crime | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/corbyn-may-say-hes-not-anti-semitic-but-associating-with-the-people-he-does-is-its-own-crime-10487318.html)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/before-elected-labour-leader-corbyn-was-part-of-an-anti-semitic-facebook-group/

But he does love the Palestinians...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/02/jeremy-corbyn-attended-event-held-muslim-group-accused-hosting/

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/antiradical-activists-condemn-jeremy-corbyn-for-meeting-with-group-linked-to-islamic-extremists-a3674856.html

MG23
10th Mar 2018, 02:03
The left in general are massive anti-semites, and always have been.

"The 1%" is just code for what they used to call "Jewish bankers".

cavortingcheetah
10th Mar 2018, 02:26
And there I was for all these decades, thinking Trotsky was a Jew.

vapilot2004
10th Mar 2018, 03:30
The left in general are massive anti-semites, and always have been.

"The 1%" is just code for what they used to call "Jewish bankers".

:rolleyes:

In the states, the overwhelming majority of Jews are part of this so-called left. That's number one. Number two, as a group, Liberals are far more inclusive than any right-wing group could ever hope to be.

You're obviously conflating anti-semitism with something else. Your statement would be truthful if you say that the left are generally harder on Israel, as an apartheid state, and tend to support a Palestinian homeland, but anti-semitic, they are most certainly not.

MG23
10th Mar 2018, 03:50
In the states, the overwhelming majority of Jews are part of this so-called left.

Yes. I remember posting an article from an Israeli newspaper back before the election, bemoaning the tendency of American Jews to vote for anti-semitic Democrats.

Here is it is again:

Twilight of American Jewry - Opinion - Jerusalem Post (http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Twilight-of-American-Jewry-467862)

"Blumenthal’s son Max is a raving anti-Semite. He calls for the destruction of Israel. He compares Israel to Nazi Germany and IDF soldiers to the Nazi SS.

Blumenthal Sr. is a proud father. He regularly shared his son’s ravings with Clinton, and she shared his delight. In eight separate emails over the course of her tenure in office, Clinton enthusiastically praised his Jew-hating propaganda."

So perhaps you should tell them that the Democrats aren't anti-semites.

vapilot2004
10th Mar 2018, 04:00
Again, you and the article's author are conflating a racist attitude (anti-semite) with one that is absolutely humanist at its core. The problem exists with the policies of Israel with respect to the Palestinians, not Israelis themselves. It has always been so.

VP959
10th Mar 2018, 08:18
There is a massive difference between the "left" and the "right" in the UK and the US, and they generally don't come close to being similar, quite apart from the fact they use the opposite colours on their campaign material.

The left here was born out of a socialist movement that has always had very strong ties to early communist thinking, and still has ties to such groups.

Before the socialist movement started here we had the liberals as the other main party, and in many ways the UK liberals were far more like the democrats in the US than what we now call the Labour Party here. The Liberals were a major political influence here until the rise of mainstream socialism over 100 years ago really pushed them into the sidelines. They haven't held power here for over 100 years, since a few years after a part of them split away and joined the Conservative Party, hence it's name, the Conservative and Unionist Party. It was the Liberal Unionists that broke away and joined the conservatives, not only giving the conservatives a lot more power, but also allowing political space for the rising Socialist movement to fill the vacuum, which they did. The early Socialists were closely aligned to the thinking of Marx and Lenin, and it was only a few decades later that moderate Socialists dragged what was, by that time, the Labour party, back towards more central policies on social reform, etc.

I don't thing there is a mainstream equivalent to the UK Labour Party in the US, and there never really has been, so drawing comparisons between them probably isn't that useful.

Trossie
10th Mar 2018, 08:27
Very neatly summed up.

There is a huge amount of confusion between the terms 'liberal' and 'socialist'. They are exact opposites. For a true liberal the individual having his independent existence is important. For the socialist the 'individual' is submerged within the social collective and doesn't exist as an independent entity. They are hugely different.

The 'left' in America are the liberals, while the 'left' in Europe are socialists. No comparison. They are totally different.

UniFoxOs
10th Mar 2018, 08:31
And of course the lovely left wing Russians just adored the Jews, did they not?

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Mar 2018, 08:50
The left in general are massive anti-semites, and always have been.
A communist friend of mine said, decades ago, that "the left are on the wrong side on this one".

vapilot2004
10th Mar 2018, 09:00
I've always understood the left for us cousins is your Labor party, whilst the Tories are the conservative bunch. UK's historical liberal party brought about welfare programs and the like, yes? I also understand on the whole, the US is well to the right of the UK and EU.

VP959
10th Mar 2018, 09:29
I've always understood the left for us cousins is your Labor party, whilst the Tories are the conservative bunch. UK's historical liberal party brought about welfare programs and the like, yes? I also understand on the whole, the US is well to the right of the UK and EU.

I think the very rough equivalents would be:

US Democratic Party ~ UK Liberal Democrats

US Republican Party ~ UK Conservative and Unionist Party

US - No clear equivalent ~ UK Labour Party

In most respects the US Democratic Party is more closely aligned with the Liberal Party here, and until their defeat in 1895, the Liberal Party here were really the major party in many respects. Their downfall was really a consequence of three things; the split of their Liberal Unionist faction to join the Conservative Party, the rise of communist thinking that gave hope to those of the (at that time) pretty downtrodden and poorly treated working class, and the first World War, that provided several opportunities for social change, from women working in factories and fighting to get the vote, to working men actively forming themselves into activist groups that would eventually become the Labour Party.

A lot of this is closely connected to, and influenced by, the British class system, something the US has never really had, and certainly didn't have around the turn of the 20th century when socialism really started to take hold here as an idea.

This lack of a direct equivalence between "right" and "left" between the UK and US creates a lot of misunderstandings, I believe. When the US think "left", they think of social liberalism, when the UK think "left" they think one step away from communism..................... :)

Sallyann1234
10th Mar 2018, 09:31
The problem being of course, that anyone expressing the slightest support for people who have lost their land due to the continued expansion of Israel is automatically branded an anti-Semite.

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Mar 2018, 09:34
This lack of a direct equivalence between "right" and "left" between the UK and US creates a lot of misunderstandings, I believe. When the US think "left", they think of social liberalism, when the UK think "left" they think one step away from communism..................... :)
I am also puzzled, in language terms, by the way that (some) Americans use "liberal" as an insult. If you're not "liberal" you're "illiberal": is being illiberal what these people are really proud of? Or is it just using the same words with completely different meanings?

KelvinD
10th Mar 2018, 09:41
And of course the lovely left wing Russians just adored the Jews, did they not?
They gave them their own "country" well before the Palestine carve-up.

KelvinD
10th Mar 2018, 09:45
Sallyann1234: Thank you for perfectly expressing in one sentence what I would probably have taken an entire paragraph to say.

VP959
10th Mar 2018, 09:54
I am also puzzled, in language terms, by the way that (some) Americans use "liberal" as an insult. If you're not "liberal" you're "illiberal": is being illiberal what these people are really proud of? Or is it just using the same words with completely different meanings?


I don't think the word "liberal" has the same meaning either side of the Atlantic, either, at least not as the word is commonly used.

The word liberal seems inextricably linked to politics, and the Democratic party in particular, in the US, whereas I think we often use the word liberal with no implied political connection at all. I have a lot of liberal views, for example, but would not associate myself with the Liberal Democrat party here. Mind you, I wouldn't associate myself with ANY major UK party right now...................

charliegolf
10th Mar 2018, 10:05
The problem being of course, that anyone expressing the slightest support for people who have lost their land due to the continued expansion of Israel is automatically branded an anti-Semite.

:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

CG

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Mar 2018, 10:15
the continued expansion of Israel
"Continued expansion??"

Much of the country was occupied by others as a result of the 1948 invasion. This was recovered back to the natural boundaries in 1967 (plus some bits that weren't much use in themselves but were essential for security, eg taking Sinai gave several seconds more warning of incoming Egyptian jets, and taking the Golan meant that the kibbutz I visited was no longer routinely shelled), but since then Israel has given up quite a lot of territory - I don't see how you can call that "continued expansion".

Trossie
10th Mar 2018, 11:01
Well said Gertrude. Those who bleat on about 'the continued expansion of Israel' are involved in a lot of selective deleting of history. But then, why let facts get in the way of your excuse at disguised antisemitism? You will never change their prejudices with facts though, the blinkers are firmly in place.

Sallyann1234
10th Mar 2018, 11:27
But then, why let facts get in the way of your excuse at disguised antisemitism?

Thank you so much. You illustrate my case perfectly. :ok:

teeteringhead
10th Mar 2018, 11:51
And there I was for all these decades, thinking Trotsky was a Jew. And look what happened to him!

Buster15
10th Mar 2018, 11:57
Who really cares. Are we not all entitled to our own views. Goodness what a fuss about nothing. Get a life...

BehindBlueEyes
10th Mar 2018, 12:18
This was very interesting viewing:

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/louis-theroux-ultra-zionists/

sitigeltfel
10th Mar 2018, 12:29
The thread title didn't need the question mark.

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Mar 2018, 12:49
You will never change their prejudices with facts though
Yeah, I know, we've been doing post-facts-politics for quite a while now.

Nemrytter
10th Mar 2018, 13:50
The left in general are massive anti-semites, and always have been.

"The 1%" is just code for what they used to call "Jewish bankers".
I used to think that a forum advertising itself as for "professional pilots" would contain intelligent people who are capable of critical thinking. Jet Blast proved me wrong, it's full of halfwitted fruitcakes.

charliegolf
10th Mar 2018, 14:43
I used to think that a forum advertising itself as for "professional pilots" would contain intelligent people who are capable of critical thinking. Jet Blast proved me wrong, it's full of halfwitted fruitcakes.

There's yer first mistake, Nem.

Is the UN anti- Semitic too? They seem to gang up a lot on an itty bitty country!

CG

CloudHound
10th Mar 2018, 15:30
Originally posted by Gertrude the Wombat
"Continued expansion??"
I think the context of the phrase applies to the continued building of new settlements on land the Palestinians believe should not be built on.

My understanding from people I know over there is that each new settlement erodes the chances of the "Two Nation State".

BehindBlueEyes
10th Mar 2018, 16:14
Quote from my above Louis Theroux link.

“Through the lens of Louis' journalism, both Jews and Palestinians appear to be the most fanatical and delusional people in the world. It's like the whole Middle Eastern region is caught in a time trap, they are so bogged down with questions of religion and morality that they cannot move on to creating an advanced efficient society. Civilization has been in this region longer than any other region on the Earth, and yet they still have the mindset predominant in ancient times.”

racedo
10th Mar 2018, 19:40
I think people are confusing Anti - Semite with Anti Zionist.

ex_matelot
10th Mar 2018, 19:45
I think the driving influence is not the actual opinions of those in the Labour heirachy but - the opinions of a quite considerable portion of the electorate who, as a demographic, are more likely to vote Labour.

Sallyann1234
10th Mar 2018, 22:03
I think people are confusing Anti - Semite with Anti Zionist.
To some, there can be no difference at all.

longer ron
10th Mar 2018, 23:20
I used to think that a forum advertising itself as for "professional pilots" would contain intelligent people who are capable of critical thinking. Jet Blast proved me wrong, it's full of halfwitted fruitcakes.

Looking at some of your posts - I think you are correct :ok:

LowNSlow
11th Mar 2018, 00:29
Of course from a genetic viewpoint both the Israelis and the Palestinians are Semitic people ......

Nemrytter
11th Mar 2018, 07:53
Looking at some of your posts - I think you are correct :ok:Gosh, such wit. We'll be onto "your mumma" jokes next.

vapilot2004
11th Mar 2018, 11:32
Of course from a genetic viewpoint both the Israelis and the Palestinians are Semitic people ......

As are their Arab friends. The term anti-semitic was reportedly first politicized by a pre-Nazi anti-semite. He accused the Jews of many things, including being too liberal. Then came the fascists and racists, and we know the rest of that difficult story.

This is twenty minutes well spent if you've ever been curious about the psychological roots of being a liberal or conservative, no matter where you're from, although it focuses on American attitudes.

The moral roots of liberals and conservatives - You Tube TED Talk 2008

This lack of a direct equivalence between "right" and "left" between the UK and US creates a lot of misunderstandings, I believe. When the US think "left", they think of social liberalism, when the UK think "left" they think one step away from communism.....................

Thank you very much, VP959, for your concise version of the larger volume: Across the Pond, Across the Aisles: A Brief History of Liberals and Conservatives in the UK and US. ;)

racedo
11th Mar 2018, 16:17
To some, there can be no difference at all.

True but if you say anything about Israel you are automatically accused of being Anti Semite when in reality many are Anti Zionist.

Sallyann1234
11th Mar 2018, 16:24
True but if you say anything about Israel you are automatically accused of being Anti Semite when in reality many are Anti Zionist.
I refer you to post #21.

Nemrytter
11th Mar 2018, 16:26
Anything involving Trossie is automatically worthy of ignoring due to extreme lack of brainpower, to be honest. You'd be presented with more intelligent arguments by debating with an evaporated puddle.

Highway1
11th Mar 2018, 16:28
True but if you say anything about Israel you are automatically accused of being Anti Semite when in reality many are Anti Zionist.

Yeah - but pretending you are anti-zionist is a convenient cover..

Trossie
11th Mar 2018, 17:44
Anything involving Trossie is automatically worthy of ignoring due to extreme lack of brainpower, to be honest. You'd be presented with more intelligent arguments by debating with an evaporated puddle.Such exquisite powers of discussion!! I think that longer ron has hit the nail on the head!!

Back to the topic: Socialism has had it in for the "wealthiest 1%" so much that it is just a gnat's whisker away from the 'blame game' being focused the way that it was in central Europe in the mid-'30s. (And that party's name had 'socialist' in it too. And hearing Jeremy's name being chanted by adoring crowds leaves me with chilling parallels with the '30s.)

There! How's that for an 'evaporated puddle'!!

cavortingcheetah
11th Mar 2018, 18:26
I guess that makes the Guardian an anti-semitic newspaper.

Gertrude the Wombat
11th Mar 2018, 18:47
I guess that makes the Guardian an anti-semitic newspaper.
Wouldn't know. Stopped reading it when it went pro-Brexit.

Sallyann1234
11th Mar 2018, 19:03
Yeah - but pretending you are anti-zionist is a convenient cover..
That's a risk you take by providing a convenient cover.

Stan Woolley
11th Mar 2018, 21:25
Yeah - but pretending you are anti-zionist is a convenient cover..

That’s why I prefer to let good Jewish men like Milo Peled and Norman Finkelstein and others be my voice which I then support.

Trossie
11th Mar 2018, 21:33
Stan,

Probably the cleverest move so far on this thread!!

'Evaporated Puddle'

kkbuk
11th Mar 2018, 23:31
Anything involving Trossie is automatically worthy of ignoring due to extreme lack of brainpower, to be honest. You'd be presented with more intelligent arguments by debating with an evaporated puddle.
Are we to assume that it is you, Nemrytter, that suffers from a lack of brainpower? That is what you state. An evaporated puddle is no longer a puddle so what point are you trying to belabour? Your several attempts at trying to show your self-assessed erudition have failed. I suggest that you wind your neck in and retain a respectful silence.

Highway1
12th Mar 2018, 01:13
That’s why I prefer to let good Jewish men like Milo Peled and Norman Finkelstein and others be my voice which I then support.


How does that work out for you? - Finkelstein supports a 2-State solution and Peled is against that and wants a unitary State.

Ogre
12th Mar 2018, 04:07
"Continued expansion??"

Much of the country was occupied by others as a result of the 1948 invasion. This was recovered back to the natural boundaries in 1967 (plus some bits that weren't much use in themselves but were essential for security, eg taking Sinai gave several seconds more warning of incoming Egyptian jets, and taking the Golan meant that the kibbutz I visited was no longer routinely shelled), but since then Israel has given up quite a lot of territory - I don't see how you can call that "continued expansion".

So just clarify this for me, if the state of Israel came into being in 1948, and that before that date it had been known as Palestine, exactly where do you get the "result of the 1948 invasion" from?

How could there be an invasion of a country that didn't exist? Palestine (formed from part of the Ottoman empire) came into existence in 1918, so if the state of Israel had a pre-defined border on the date it was formed how could their movement of those borders in an outward direction not be classed as "expansion"?

cavortingcheetah
12th Mar 2018, 04:24
The Czars of Russia were so frightened of Jewish revolutionaries that one of them commissioned The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
That prescience of mind was vindicated for Trotsky was a Jew as were many who brought about the Russian revolution.
Stalin pogrommed them once he came to power.
The Association of German National Jews supported Hitler's rise to power.
Hitler repaid them with murderous malice once he came to power.
Jon Lansman, who founded Momentum, is Jewish and he has propelled Corbyn into the position he now holds and continues to consolidate.
Marxists and Socialists have always been happy to use Jewish resources to attain power but are equally conscious of the fact that in time their oppressive policies will alienate the power brokers that put them there.
Hence the Jews will always be used to socialist advantage before becoming disadvantaged once the advantage has been capitalised upon.

ORAC
12th Mar 2018, 09:47
Hmmm, “The Protocols of Zion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion)” are actually the exemplar of anti-semetism.


And returning to the point of the thread. Which puts the claims from Corbyn that he was not aware of the nature of the thread in context.

Harry's Place » ?Palestine Live and Me? (http://hurryupharry.org/2018/03/10/palestine-live-and-me/)

...”

Krystal n chips
12th Mar 2018, 10:02
Such exquisite powers of discussion!! I think that longer ron has hit the nail on the head!!

Back to the topic: Socialism has had it in for the "wealthiest 1%" so much that it is just a gnat's whisker away from the 'blame game' being focused the way that it was in central Europe in the mid-'30s. (And that party's name had 'socialist' in it too. And hearing Jeremy's name being chanted by adoring crowds leaves me with chilling parallels with the '30s.)

There! How's that for an 'evaporated puddle'!!

To answer your question.

Pretty accurate really.

Devoid of content...... and now filled with hot air.

Gertrude the Wombat
12th Mar 2018, 10:15
where do you get the "result of the 1948 invasion" from
Looking at maps. In particular the one I used when travelling around Israel in 1973 which had the various ceasefire lines marked on it. (Some anti-Semites really are into rewriting history, aren't they.)

Sallyann1234
12th Mar 2018, 10:53
Looking at maps. In particular the one I used when travelling around Israel in 1973 which had the various ceasefire lines marked on it. (Some anti-Semites really are into rewriting history, aren't they.)
Well, I have never felt it necessary to discuss history with an anti-Semite. Or a Hamas terrorist for that matter.
But the continued establishment of new settlements in contravention of UN resolution looks very like 'expansion' to me.

sitigeltfel
12th Mar 2018, 11:13
Former Chief Rabbi Lord Sacks said he wouldn’t be able to sit down with Corbyn due to Labour’s anti-Semitism problems:

“I would want to see clearer signs of resolute action by a party and its leader before I would even sit down with them full stop.”

I wouldn't wait if I were you, Lord Sacks.

Flyingbadge
12th Mar 2018, 12:40
There's yer first mistake, Nem.

Is the UN anti- Semitic too? They seem to gang up a lot on an itty bitty country!

CG

With regards to the UN, most definitely. Take UNESCO’s declaration that Jerusalem has no historical link to Judaism, only islam and Christianity.
But that’s not the worst of it. The UN (through the UNRWA), established that every meeting must debate and pass a condemnation of Israel, the only country in the world given this honour. So during the Syrian wars, yemen, arab spring etc the only condemnation is against Israel. So a surreal situation exists where just last year Israel was condemned 21 times, rest of world, 4. This has been going on for years so people quote the UN and say Israel continually ignores the hundreds of UN rulings against it. And who sits on the UNRWA council? Syria, Jordon, lebanon, Egypt iran etc etc
Suggest you look at UNWATCH.ORG.

Here’s a recent top 10 from their site.



10. The U.N.’s Beirut-based agency of 18 Arab states published a report accusing Israel of “Apartheid.”
In response, UN Watch executive director Hillel Neuer took the floor to ask Algeria, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Lebanon, Yemen, and the others, a simple question: “Where are your Jews?” For once, the room was silenced. UN Watch’s speech went viral on the Internet, with the video viewed 5 million times worldwide.
________________________________________
9. The U.N. women’s rights commission condemned Israel as the world’s only violator of women’s rights. Real abusers of women’s rights, such as Iran, Yemen, and Afghanistan, were ignored.
The next month, UN Watch exposed the U.N.’s election of Saudi Arabia to this same women’s rights commission—and the fact that at least five EU states voted for the Saudis. The story went viral, and created a major scandal in Belgium, where the prime minister eventually admitted their vote and apologized, and sparked controversies in Ireland, Norway and Sweden. Click for video.
________________________________________
8. In June, 16 U.N. agencies signed an agreement with the “State of Palestine” to spend an unprecedented $18 million to fund lawfare attacks on Israel, couched in the language of human rights, international law and “accountability.”
The U.N. campaign seeks to erode Israel’s ability to defend itself from terrorist attacks by Hamas and Hezbollah. As noted by Fox News, “UN Watch, an independent monitoring group based in Switzerland, was one of the first places to highlight and criticize the U.N. spending; executive director Hillel Neuer called on the United States, Canada, and Australia and other democracies to ensure that their taxpayer contributions are not being misused to undermine U.N. institutions through an escalation of politicized attacks on Israel.”
________________________________________
7. In October, U.N. Palestine Rapporteur Michael Lynk issued a report advocating an economic boycott of Israeli companies.
When Lynk arrived at U.N. headquarters in New York for his annual press conference, he was startled when three different journalists challenged him over his biased report and mandate. The reporters were prompted by UN Watch’s complaint letter to the Secretary-General which objected to Lynk’s call for a boycott and his ignoring of human rights abuses by the Palestinian Authority and Hamas. Lynk falsely claimed to be “unaware” that he could reference Palestinian violations of human rights.
Thanks to UN Watch’s campaign, the U.S. government issued a statement saying that “Mr. Lynk’s remarks, and the very existence of this report, underscore the Human Rights Council’s chronic anti-Israel bias. The United States will continue to oppose attempts to undermine the UN system through actions that unfairly target Israel.”
________________________________________
6. The UN’s World Health Organization singled out Israel as the only violator in the world of “mental, physical and environmental health, ” and, under pressure from Syria’s Assad regime, deleted parts of a report on Israeli actions in the Golan Heights—because they were positive to Israel.
________________________________________
5. Dubravka Simonovic, the U.N. expert on vioence against women, visited Israel and the territories and concluded: When Palestinian men beat their wives, it’s Israel’s fault.
UN Watch’s executive director took the floor to challenge the U.N. investigator’s report: “Why did you fail to mention that official Palestinian TV regularly broadcasts Islamic preachers who tell the people how to beat their wives?”
In reaction, the Egyptian chair of the meeting broke with parliamentary protocol: “I would like to say thank you, but I can’t,” said Ambassador Amr Ramadan. “Because I think that you need to respect this council more.” Click for video.
________________________________________
4. In its ritual annual scapegoating of the Jewish state, the UN General Assembly adopted 20 one-sided resolutions against Israel—and only 6 resolutions on the rest of the world combined. Tomorrow, at an emergency meeting called by the Arab and Islamic states to condemn the United States over its recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, a 21st resolution will be adopted criticizing the Jewish state.
________________________________________
3. UNESCO negated its mandate to protect world heritage by adopting a resolution recognizing Hebron—second holiest city in Judaism because of the Tomb of the Patriarchs—as a Palestinian world heritage site.
UN Watch revealed that UNESCO had rejected its own experts’ advice, who opposed the Palestinian nomination on account of failing to properly recognize Hebron’s Jewish and Christian heritage.
________________________________________
2. UNRWA launched a global campaign showing the picture of an 11-year-old girl, “Aya from Gaza,” in a bombed-out building—portraying Israel as a cruel oppressor of Palestinian children—but UN Watch exposed it as a fraud: the photo was actually from Syria. The story went viral online. UNRWA suffered massive embarrassment, and was forced to remove the photo worldwide.
________________________________________
1. The office of U.N. human rights commissioner Zeid Ra’ad al-Hussein spent the past year preparing to inflame the anti-Israel boycott campaign by drawing up a blacklist of companies that do business in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem and other Jewish communities over the 1949 armistice line. The report is due to be submitted this month, and presented before the council in March. UN Watch will take the lead in countering the blacklist, what Nikki Haley this week called the “ugly creation” of the UNHRC.

Andy_S
12th Mar 2018, 13:24
Jeremy Corbyn may or may not be an anti-Semite.

But he sure as hell is comfortable in the company of people who are.

Trossie
12th Mar 2018, 14:30
Aesop: “A man is known by the company he keeps”.

KelvinD
12th Mar 2018, 19:00
Flyingbadge: What an amazing waste of half a page, only to indicate you are among those who do not understand the difference between anti-semitic and anti-Zionist.
Being born just after the end of WW2, my parents were quick to show some newly published material, showing the horrors of the German concentration camps and this instilled into me an abhorrence of man's inhumanity to man which I carried throughout my life.
In 1967, I was there in Aden when the local Arabs took their revenge on the local Jewish community following the 6 Day War. I was there when the Jewish community were rescued by British forces and was very much sympathetic to them and their plight. Then I observed their reaction to their having been rescued. Among comments I heard were things like "I demand you go back and rescue my stock from my jewellery shop". Not "Thanks very much for risking your lives in order to save ours". That coloured my view of those people but I remained generally sympathetic to them and their new nation. Then I spent many years in the region, working and becoming friendly with Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Egyptians. I gradually became aware of a different story, which was strengthened when I visited a large refugee camp just north of Amman. Eventually, I visited Israel and this only confirmed my view that I had been hoodwinked over many years. The only memorable quote I recall from my visit there was from a British born barmaid in Tel Aviv who was quite indignant that, during her military service, she and her comrades had been shot at while coming out of Lebanon. I pointed out to her that Lebanon is another country and if it had been mine she had invaded, I too might have shot at her! I have lost count of the number of UN resolutions that Israel is in breach of. On the other hand, Iraq was found to be in breach of a single UN resolution and this became a justification for the West to "go medieval" on that country.
So, anti-Semitic: I don't care if a person chooses to worship at a mosque, synagogue or the temple of the Mounted Bombay Methodists! Each to their own.
Anti-Zionist? In terms of Israel's treatment of others, particularly people whose families owned land etc in the West Bank for centuries, well that has become despicable.
However, it has become fashionable to slap the "anti-Semitic" tag on anyone who dares criticise the State of Israel.

cavortingcheetah
12th Mar 2018, 21:29
Given the machinations of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, it's probably just safer to be anti Israeli. But, a word of warning here, not so much as to be critically distinguishable from one's loathing of the expansionist policies of any other country.
As for Corbyn, he will use whomever he can to attain power and then, in the usual tradition of Marxists and erstwhile dictators, discard them once he has reached the pinnacle of his ambition. He is certainly anti Israeli and anti American and it seems quite probable and logical that he would dislike Jews and White Anglo Saxon Protestants.
What too of the opinions and influence of Laura Alvarez, the low radar profile wife of the Marxist party leader? A human rights campaigner from Mexico and no small shot of tequila, one fancies, in the Machiavellian machinations of the Marxist movement.

Private jet
13th Mar 2018, 22:25
Since the events of WW2 any criticism of a Jew is seized on by "the tribe" as "anti-semitic". That ploy is starting to wear a little thin now. Also it's maybe fair to assume, by observation that the reasons the Jews and Arabs don't get along is that, in some ways, they are too alike....

Sallyann1234
13th Mar 2018, 22:37
Since the events of WW2 any criticism of a Jew is seized on by "the tribe" as "anti-semitic". That ploy is starting to wear a little thin now. Also it's maybe fair to assume, by observation that the reasons the Jews and Arabs don't get along is that, in some ways, they are too alike....
Of course they are alike. Two Semitic tribes with much in common, including wanting the same patch of land. There will be no resolution until one can wipe out the other.

Private jet
13th Mar 2018, 22:51
Of course they are alike. Two Semitic tribes with much in common, including wanting the same patch of land. There will be no resolution until one can wipe out the other.

Well yes of course, are you trying to have a dig though or just trying to look clever?

Espada III
14th Mar 2018, 13:37
Regretfully, most of you on here are speaking without full knowledge of the situation in the Middle East. In particular SallyAnn and KelvinD and others.

If you have not visited Israel and the Palestinian Authority, please do so before engaging fingers to type the rubbish that is being spouted.

There are 1.5 Million Arabs living as full citizens of the State of Israel - the only Jewish state in the world and the size of Wales. Compared to the in excess of 25 Muslim States , almost all of which are larger than Israel. There are over 1 Billion Muslims and only 16 Million Jews worldwide.

So, with 1.5 Million Arabs (both Christian and Moslem) in Israel, how are they treated? Well, one is a judge in the Supreme Court, so I don't get the apartheid comment. I was in Netanya this weekend, a town 25km north of Tel Aviv. Lots of Arab people in town, working, shopping, having coffee. Seemed happy enough to me; just like I'm happy to be a Jew in Christain England.

Its quite simple really, with the exception of a few hotheads, the average Israeli wants peace and would be happy to trade most of the land in the 'occupied territories' for a guaranteed secure future; just like France and Germany now exist peacefully side by side. But when the people you wish to sit down with cannot bring themselves to accept your existence, what choices do you have.

So SallyAnn - please tell me.. short of removing all Jews from the Land of Israel, how would you resolve the conflict? Because, pulling out of Gaza in 2005 made no difference to the attitude of Hamas to throwing over rockets every day.

If you don't have an answer and still persist in your views, you ARE an anti-Semite; because you are not willing to save one side of the dispute when both sides have valid positions.

Stan Woolley
14th Mar 2018, 13:49
If you have not visited Israel and the Palestinian Authority, please do so before engaging fingers to type the rubbish that is being spouted.

Miko Peled certainly has, listen to what he has to say, he disagrees with you.

https://youtu.be/L9_OcCXvT6Y

Espada III
14th Mar 2018, 14:10
Simply remember that the whole essence of the Jewish religion is a 'return to Zion'. If you do not accept that the Jewish nation belongs in Zion then you cannot claim to be Jewish - it is the sine qua non of being Jewish.

So I simply ignore any person who claims to be Jewish but only uses that claim when they wish to attack Israel.

If someone believed in the right and necessity of Jews to live in the Land of Israel and wished to criticise the policies of the government of that country - be my guest. There are lots of Jews who do that every day and they are Israeli citizens, but they don't intend to commit mass suicide.

Gertrude the Wombat
14th Mar 2018, 19:37
So, with 1.5 Million Arabs (both Christian and Moslem) in Israel, how are they treated? Well, one is a judge in the Supreme Court, so I don't get the apartheid comment. I was in Netanya this weekend, a town 25km north of Tel Aviv. Lots of Arab people in town, working, shopping, having coffee. Seemed happy enough to me; just like I'm happy to be a Jew in Christain England.

Its quite simple really, with the exception of a few hotheads, the average Israeli wants peace and would be happy to trade most of the land in the 'occupied territories' for a guaranteed secure future; just like France and Germany now exist peacefully side by side. But when the people you wish to sit down with cannot bring themselves to accept your existence, what choices do you have.
That's what I saw in 1973. The only restriction on the "rights" of Arab Israelis was that they weren't called up for compulsory military service (I don't know whether they were permitted to serve voluntarily, but nobody told me they weren't).

Oh, and if they were neither Christians nor Muslims and wanted a civil wedding they had to go to Cyprus. But then so did non-religious Jews, so no racial discrimination there.

Gertrude the Wombat
14th Mar 2018, 19:38
Simply remember that the whole essence of the Jewish religion is a 'return to Zion'. If you do not accept that the Jewish nation belongs in Zion then you cannot claim to be Jewish - it is the sine qua non of being Jewish.
Tell that to all the New York Jews who raise a glass each year to "next year in Jerusalem" ... and then carry on living in New York.

ShotOne
14th Mar 2018, 21:53
Corbyn is undeniably comfortable in company of those with viciously anti Semitic views. But since he has common cause with pretty much any terrorist or loathsome totalitarian regime which hates the U.K. it’s hard to know which takes priority.

Trossie
15th Mar 2018, 08:54
The great thing about Britain is that the public in general don't think the same way as so many of Mr Corbyn's companions.

In recent times the leaders of both Britain's main political parties were Jewish. Both were ineffective in bringing their parties to power (one even provided a slightly premature 'edstone for his political grave!), but the most significant factor in British life was that hardly any real fuss was made of the fact that they were Jewish. Both had been 'beaten to it' however by Britain already having had a Jewish prime minister in the 1800s. And one of the delightful things about British politics is that that has hardly mattered to anyone.

But it appears that many of those in Mr Corbyn's company would not like that. That term "the 1% wealthiest" is a fragile smokescreen in such circumstances.

KelvinD
15th Mar 2018, 09:34
Espada III: Regretfully, most of you on here are speaking without full knowledge of the situation in the Middle East. In particular SallyAnn and KelvinD and others.
My first experience of the Middle East was in 1966/67. Other than a 4 year spell in South Africa, the remainder of my life was spent mainly living and working in Iraq, Syria, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Dubai & Oman. My final spell of working in the area was a bit more than a year in the Saudi Arabian mountains and deserts along the Yemen border. And none of my work over that period was sitting in a comfy, air conditioned office; it was out and about, meeting the locals and occasionally getting my ear bent over the bloody Balfour Declaration!
So, feel free to withdraw your baseless comment.
Prophead: Your comment in #62 is plain silly. I was reporting what I saw and heard. How does that constitute the bias you allege? History is history, regardless of which side you favour.

Ancient Observer
15th Mar 2018, 16:04
When my Dad was sent to Palestine/Israel at the end of WW2, he said that he thought the Brits were doing a good job. Because both sides fired at them.

His time there caused me to read up a bit on the issues at the time of the Balfour declaration. At that time, there were 2 Jewish groups in the UK. (Broadly speaking).
There were Integrationists, who wanted to live peacefully in the UK, and there were Zionists who wanted a Homeland to move to.
Where I grew up, (Norf Lundun), most of the Jewish folk remained Integrationists, years after the Zionists had their state.
What I observe now in the meeja is a deliberate attempt by the Zionists to suggest that Integrationists are not real Jews, or that anyone who does not like the rate at which Israel kills Arabs (10 to 1 ) is anti-Semitic.
It's all spin. It won't stop spinning.

KelvinD
15th Mar 2018, 19:27
Prophead: Thank you for your reply and I accept the sentiment therein and I accept your comments re those who mention what they see and hear etc. However, very often those comments that stir up the racist bigot comments are not first hand reports, they usually find their origins in "opinion pieces" etc in certain sections of the media.

vapilot2004
15th Mar 2018, 21:00
The conflation of anti-semite with anti-zionist is still happening here. I'm for a Jewish state, but I also believe the Palestinians have a claim to a house or two of their own.

There are a lot of accusations being thrown around using language meant to divide, rather than unite. It's almost like Brexit, the American elections circa 2016, and the American gun debate. Everyone is yelling, no one is listening, and when they do listen, they invent words and sentiments that were never spoken.

The classic definition of an anti-zionist is one who is against the development and security of a Jewish homeland. Well, I'd say Israel is fairly well developed, and as to security, that's complicated. Israel will never be 100% secure, unless perhaps the enormous population of Arabs surrounding them were to suddenly vanish, or somehow "see the light" and make peace with their fellow semites.

Meanwhile, there needs to be an amicable and fair solution to the Palestinian situation. Apartheid needs to stop, as does the land grab and continued settlements. Arab nations need to stop treating Palestinians as the pawns in their own myopic game of "hate the west" and "down with Israel".

Israel has been restrained by the US from pummeling her enemies many, many times. The Jewish people have suffered quite a lot and are understandably security focused, but policies and actions leading to the suffering of others is not an honorable way forward.

cavortingcheetah
15th Mar 2018, 21:23
Of little consequence as the fact might be, I listened to the entire Miko Peled talk. I thought that there was much to agree with what he said. But great sympathy for the Palestinians does not translate into any form of liking for the Corbyn creature and his Marxist acolytes whose pro Palestinian stance and anti Semitism reeks infinitely more of political opportunity than genuine anguish at the plight of the oppressed.

Fairdealfrank
5th Apr 2018, 22:01
The left in general are massive anti-semites, and always have been.

"The 1%" is just code for what they used to call "Jewish bankers". The Labour Party's slogan "for the many not the few" says it all. Perhaps whoever dreamt up this appalling slogan unwittingly revealed more than was intended.

"The 1%" more than qualifies as "the few".

You've only to change one letter of the slogan, and you get the drift.

Who knows if Corbyn is personally anti-semetic, but there can be no doubt that anti-semetism is rife amongst Eddie Miliband's "£3 carpetbaggers and entryists" in the new "new" (Momemtum-dominated) Labour party, along with racism and mysogyny.

Gertrude the Wombat
5th Apr 2018, 22:26
You've only to change one letter of the slogan, and you get the drift.
"For the many, not the Jew" has had a number of outings on Twitter over the past few weeks, yes.

jindabyne
6th Apr 2018, 20:58
Of course they are alike. Two Semitic tribes with much in common, including wanting the same patch of land. There will be no resolution until one can wipe out the other.

Lawrence of Arabia and the film, come to mind.

Fairdealfrank
6th Apr 2018, 23:34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairdealfrank https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/606362-jeremy-anti-semite-post10108594.html#post10108594)
You've only to change one letter of the slogan, and you get the drift.

"For the many, not the Jew" has had a number of outings on Twitter over the past few weeks, yes.


The slogan is bad grammar, but basically it boils down to being in favour of the majority at the expense of the minority/minorities.

Open to intepretation of course, but the message is clear: if you're not part of the majority, don't vote Labour.

Gertrude the Wombat
7th Apr 2018, 08:46
Open to intepretation of course, but the message is clear: if you're not part of the majority, don't vote Labour.
Which is the exact opposite of democracy, which exists to protect the rights of minorities. (A few special cases aside, majorities don't need democracy: they've got more fists / pitchforks / guns / whatever.)

Fairdealfrank
9th Apr 2018, 01:41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairdealfrank https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/606362-jeremy-anti-semite-post10109713.html#post10109713)
Open to intepretation of course, but the message is clear: if you're not part of the majority, don't vote Labour.

Which is the exact opposite of democracy, which exists to protect the rights of minorities. (A few special cases aside, majorities don't need democracy: they've got more fists / pitchforks / guns / whatever.)
Exactly right.

sitigeltfel
10th Apr 2018, 15:04
The Israeli Labor Party severs ties with Corbyn as anti-semitic head of UK Labour...

https://i0.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/letter-labor.jpg?resize=540%2C804&ssl=1

Meme posted up by Dorian Bartley, BAME officer for Gypsy Hill Labour Party branch

https://www.conservativehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/DB-Israel-Hitler-meme.png

radeng
10th Apr 2018, 16:46
It is extremely rare that I feel sorry for Jeremy Corbin, but it does seem to me that if, by any possible chance he can unite all sides of the Labour Party, he can have another career herding dozens of cats!

flyhardmo
11th Apr 2018, 03:01
Interesting article.


https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2018/03/28/reminder-israel-put-up-a-1000000-bounty-for-labour-insiders-to-undermine-corbyn/

ORAC
17th Apr 2018, 17:13
In case you don’t notice - he’s a Labour MP (Dudley North) sitting on the benches behind Jeremy.....

https://youtu.be/8GjiZvROySE

ORAC
18th Apr 2018, 08:10
Tensions in Labour erupt over rising abuse of Jews (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tensions-in-labour-erupt-over-rising-abuse-of-jews-xqvpdx2jr)

Labour’s antisemitism row intensified yesterday as three of the party’s Jewish MPs received standing ovations in the Commons after attacking its handling of the issue. Jewish leaders also said they would boycott a meeting next week with Jeremy Corbyn after it emerged that a hard-left group which denies that Labour has a problem with antisemitism had also been invited.

In an emotionally charged debate, Labour backbenchers lined up to highlight the growth of antisemitism claims under Mr Corbyn’s leadership.

Dame Margaret Hodge, 73, the veteran Labour MP for Barking and the daughter of Jewish refugees, told the Commons that she felt like “an outsider in the party I have been a member of for 50 years”. After describing seeing a battered suitcase bearing her uncle’s initials during a visit to Auschwitz, she said: “I have never felt as nervous and frightened as I feel today at being a Jew. It feels that my party has given permission for antisemitism to go unchallenged.” Dame Margaret finished her speech to a standing ovation.

The same reception greeted Luciana Berger, the Labour member for Liverpool Wavertree, who said that antisemitism had become “more commonplace, is more conspicuous and is more corrosive” in the party. “That’s why I have no words for the people who purport to be both members and supporters of our party, who use that hashtag JC4PM [Jeremy Corbyn for prime minister], who attacked me in recent weeks for my comments; they attacked me for speaking at the rally against antisemitism . . . who say I should be deselected.”

Ruth Smeeth, the Labour MP for Stoke-on-Trent North, was also applauded after reading a sample of antisemitic abuse she had received on social media, including “hang yourself you vile treacherous Zionist Tory filth, you’re a cancer of humanity” and “first job for Jeremy Corbyn tomorrow, expel the Zionist hag bitch Ruth Smeeth”.

In a highly pointed gesture, Tom Watson, Labour’s deputy leader, chose to sit on the back benches between Ms Berger and Ms Smeeth rather than in his usual position on the front bench beside Mr Corbyn. The Labour leader sat through much of the debate, occasionally shaking his head when Conservative MPs criticised his record on antisemitism.

John Mann, the Labour MP for Bassetlaw, said his wife had been “threatened with rape” by a “leftist antisemite” after he attended a demonstration against antisemitism in Labour three weeks ago. She was also “sent by a Labour Marxist antisemite a dead bird through the post,” he said. His daughter, he added, had been “rung up in the last few weeks by Special Branch to check out her movements.”

Several Conservative MPs made emotional contributions to the debate. Robert Halfon, the Conservative MP for Harlow, who is Jewish, said antisemitism was now “out in its naked viciousness for everyone to see”.

Sajid Javid, the communities secretary, said: “While I would much rather that this issue transcended party politics, as other forms of racism have done for a long time, we cannot and we must not ignore the particular concern with elements within the Labour Party.”.......

Highway1
18th Apr 2018, 14:12
Its a bit of a shame that Corbyn couldn't even be bothered to stay and listen to the examples of abuse suffered by his own MP's - its as though he simply doesn't care..

ORAC
18th Apr 2018, 15:49
Watching a different recording, on the BBC, it showed the standing ovations. Nearly everyone on the Labour front bench stood, turned, and applauded.

All except one that is; one who continued to sit, arms crossed and with a filthy scowl across her face to each ovation - Diane Abbott.....

sitigeltfel
18th Apr 2018, 16:50
A comment by a contributor at Guido's site

Slightly off topic but listen up Ruth Smeeth, John Mann, Luciana Berger and, for that matter, Tom Watson.
Yesterday, Corbyn rewarded some of the most powerfully delivered and deeply felt speeches in the HOC in recent times by making himself absent and completely ignoring you.
For those of you who held out the hope of changing Labour from the inside, you have now been clearly answered in the most humiliating way possible - with your leader removing himself from the scene. Frankly, you have been insulted.
This game is up. You cannot change them and they deeply, deeply resent you for trying.
You have a number of choices but NONE of them involve sheepishly following a racist and misogynistic cabal.
WAKE UP.Can't improve on that! :D

KelvinD
18th Apr 2018, 16:56
So, having read all of the above, I notice none of those involved was named Jeremy Corbyn. I will agree he has his work cut out trying to stamp out this dreadful behaviour but may I suggest the title of this thread be changed.
And once that is done, let's start listing the anti-Islam abuse others in Parliament have suffered for years.

ORAC
18th Apr 2018, 17:12
Nice try at a bit of “whataboutery”, but as his absence and his history shows Jeremy is part of the problem, not the solution. No change of title required.

Reference the attempt to change the subject, have any of the major parties a reputation for allowing or condoning anti-Islamic abuse (as opposed to Islamism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism) that is).

ORAC
19th Apr 2018, 05:50
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2Fa8c0cdfa-433c-11e8-9618-96ec7a8a2ce5.png?crop=2989%2C1993%2C489%2C111&resize=1370

sitigeltfel
19th Apr 2018, 07:15
And once that is done, let's start listing the anti-Islam abuse others in Parliament have suffered for years.

If you discount the bombings, knife attacks, shootings, beheadings, vehicle rammings and child rape, you have to wonder why Islam comes in for so much criticism!

Fairdealfrank
19th Apr 2018, 22:48
So, having read all of the above, I notice none of those involved was named Jeremy Corbyn. I will agree he has his work cut out trying to stamp out this dreadful behaviour but may I suggest the title of this thread be changed.
And once that is done, let's start listing the anti-Islam abuse others in Parliament have suffered for years.


Originally Posted by KelvinD https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/606362-jeremy-anti-semite-post10122837.html#post10122837)
And once that is done, let's start listing the anti-Islam abuse others in Parliament have suffered for years.
If you discount the bombings, knife attacks, shootings, beheadings, vehicle rammings and child rape, you have to wonder why Islam comes in for so much criticism!
Nice diversions!! here's another:


A comment by a contributor at Guido's site

Quote:
Slightly off topic but listen up Ruth Smeeth, John Mann, Luciana Berger and, for that matter, Tom Watson.
Yesterday, Corbyn rewarded some of the most powerfully delivered and deeply felt speeches in the HOC in recent times by making himself absent and completely ignoring you.
For those of you who held out the hope of changing Labour from the inside, you have now been clearly answered in the most humiliating way possible - with your leader removing himself from the scene. Frankly, you have been insulted.
This game is up. You cannot change them and they deeply, deeply resent you for trying.
You have a number of choices but NONE of them involve sheepishly following a racist and misogynistic cabal.
WAKE UP.
Can't improve on that! Unable to change from the inside? Reminiscent of something else? Sounds like the EU to me, and many prime ministers from Call-Me-Dave Cameron and earlier have had a similar experience.

End of thread drift.

Gertrude the Wombat
19th Apr 2018, 23:00
Nice diversions!!
"Whataboutery: an attempt (usually doomed to failure) to distract attention from your own wrongdoing by claiming that others are just as bad."

ShotOne
19th Apr 2018, 23:13
Thank you for the explanation, Gertrude but the "anti-Islam" allegations above aren't whataboutery, just a desperate and crude attempt to change the subject away from the toxic goings-on within Labour

KelvinD
20th Apr 2018, 08:07
To those unable to read; my post had no "whataboutery" or attempts at diversion at all.
Allow me to break it down into easily manageable chunks:
None of those involved was named "Jeremy Corbyn", therefore nullifying the thread title.
he has his work cut out trying to stamp out this dreadful behaviour This part acknowledges that anti semitism both exists and is dreadful. So, no whataboutery or attempts at diversion there then.
And once that is done.. Now this part indicates that the initial issue should be dealt with first, leading to the final suggestion regarding anti Islam rhetoric. And there, I will concede, is the lead in to Orac's invaluable contribution and I am happy to be associated with "what bout..." on condition that the earlier bits are fixed first.
Of course, sitigeltfel can be counted on to make an important contribution:
"If you discount the bombing". That'll be Irish Catholics then.
"the knife attacks"; possibly Rastas?
"shootings"; pick a religion (or lack of)
"beheadings"; Bingo! You got one there! The only religious lot apparently engaging in this barbarism are indeed Muslim. And our best mates so they get a get out of jail card there.
"vehicle rammings"; well that seems to be the bailiwick of HM constabulary and presumably they come under all religions or none.
"child rape"; Gary Glitter and Savile were of which religious persuasion? Who knows? Who bloody cares?
I don't like Corbyn but I equally dislike people being tarred with a bogus brush.

Pontius Navigator
20th Apr 2018, 10:24
"vehicle rammings"; well that seems to be the bailiwick of HM constabulary and presumably they come under all religions or none

Come on Kelvin, that was an irrelevant sideswipe at the boys in blue.

Perhaps instead of vehicle rammings it should have read 'crash for cash.'

glad rag
20th Apr 2018, 10:43
Well said Gertrude. Those who bleat on about 'the continued expansion of Israel' are involved in a lot of selective deleting of history. But then, why let facts get in the way of your excuse at disguised antisemitism? You will never change their prejudices with facts though, the blinkers are firmly in place.

Yes Indeed. :D

sitigeltfel
22nd Apr 2018, 09:18
The core cause of the rise in anti-Semitism shouldn't be focused on one person in the UK, the whole of Europe needs to wake up to the deadly threat it seems to be able to propogate with impunity. What other group of people would be able to get away with a sustained attack on a minority? They can only do so because they have the liberal Lefts support and the cowardly surrender of others in authority to a murderous, racist cult.

This is what is happening here in France (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/22/nicolas-sarkozy-among-personalities-condemn-ethnic-purging-wave/)and Jewish friends in Paris are considering moving South to here to get away from the hostile atmosphere they experience on a regular basis. Outwardly they show no sign of their religion, but if they mention their name, the reaction is sometimes strained.

Only 30,000 protestors in a city the size of Paris is frankly pathetic, and shows veiled acceptance and apathy.

Once they get rid of the Jew, they'll be coming for you.

Gertrude the Wombat
22nd Apr 2018, 09:59
Come on Kelvin, that was an irrelevant sideswipe at the boys in blue.
There's a case on locally at the moment about a PC who deliberate drove at some sort of suspected criminal in circumstances in which running them over on the pavement was disproportionate.

KelvinD
22nd Apr 2018, 10:26
Pontius: No, it really wasn't a sideswipe at anyone other than the poster to whom I was responding. Having said that, have you seen the number of vehicles wrecked by the police through deliberate ramming? I can see the benefits of forcing a vehicle off the road in order to apprehend the toe rags who would prefer to remain at large. It must be a bitter disappointment to have the police report that the car you reported stolen a couple of hours ago has been found and the thieves arrested. Oh, and by the way, your car was written off during the stop!
Anyway, back to the regular bickering...

Sallyann1234
22nd Apr 2018, 10:33
Pontius: No, it really wasn't a sideswipe at anyone other than the poster to whom I was responding. Having said that, have you seen the number of vehicles wrecked by the police through deliberate ramming? I can see the benefits of forcing a vehicle off the road in order to apprehend the toe rags who would prefer to remain at large. It must be a bitter disappointment to have the police report that the car you reported stolen a couple of hours ago has been found and the thieves arrested. Oh, and by the way, your car was written off during the stop!
Anyway, back to the regular bickering...
If my car is stolen for use in a crime and driven carelessly, I would rather have it written off than returned to me.

sitigeltfel
24th Apr 2018, 20:52
Corbyn turns an opportunity into a car crash...

https://www.thejc.com/corbyn-meeting-board-jlc-1.463017

The only surprise is that they thought he would consider their requests for some action.

His position is now clear for all to see.

KelvinD
24th Apr 2018, 21:43
His position is indeed clear; he runs the Labour Party, not the British Board of Jewish Deputies.

sitigeltfel
24th Apr 2018, 21:52
His position is indeed clear; he runs the Labour Party, not the British Board of Jewish Deputies.

Milne and Lansman run the Labour party. Corbyn is their sock puppet.

Espada III
24th Apr 2018, 22:20
Prepare for an outflow of Jews from the UK together with their money, being poured into Euros, Dollars, Swiss Francs and Shekels. I'm halfway there, my father even further and lots of friends in their middle 50s selling up, downsizing and starting the process of moving out.

Some of you won't care, but those with any brains and compassion will understand the financial, cultural, educational, scientific and medical implications of this to the UK and the similarlties to Germany in the early 1930s. At least this time we have a country that will accept us without question.... unlike in the 1930s.

Unless you are a member of Momentum or are a Muslim be very very afraid.....

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

sitigeltfel
25th Apr 2018, 07:45
Piers Morgan has just ripped Labours Barry Gardiner a new one, comparing Corbyns attitude to anti-Semitism and the noise he is making over the Windrush saga. Morgan called Corbyn a coward for sending Gardiner to face the music, further highlighting his tolerance of Labours racists.

treadigraph
25th Apr 2018, 12:51
Ruth Smeeth escorted by Labour colleagues to anti-Semitism hearing - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43892227)

Hussar 54
25th Apr 2018, 19:48
If my car is stolen for use in a crime and driven carelessly, I would rather have it written off than returned to me.

Happened to us a few years ago, although it wasn't really our choice.

Frau H's car was stolen from a public car park in Toulon and for two weeks, absolutley no news from the local Gendarmerie.

Eventually we got a call asking us to go to the Toulon Gendarmerie. We went, and were asked to identify different things - yes, they're my sun glasses, yes - they're my gloves, etc, etc...No - we didn't have that box of 25 Mont Blanc pens in the car when it was stolen, No - we didn't have that box of I-Pads in the car when it was stolen, etc, etc....

We were then taken to the Car Park behind the building, where our Nissan was parked but was now about 300cms shorter and 150cms less high than the last time we'd seen it.

Eventually we found out that our car had been spotted less than 20 minutes after we'd reported it stolen, being driven by a criminal already well known to the police and who had decided that he'd stolen the car for a purpose so followed him for the two weeks, waiting until they were sure he had stolen goods in it before ramming him into the central barrier on the A57 just outside of Toulon.

Would have been nice to have been told what was happening, rather than waiting two weeks to find out.

ORAC
26th Apr 2018, 06:41
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-mps-are-smearing-corbyn-says-len-mccluskey-of-biggest-donor-unite-0zvk5vhvc

Labour MPs are smearing Corbyn, says Len McCluskey of biggest donor Unite

The union leader Len McCluskey has accused centrist Labour MPs of smearing Jeremy Corbyn and trying to present the party as a “morass of misogyny, antisemitism and bullying”. The general secretary of Unite, who is known as Labour’s kingmaker and whose union is its biggest donor, warned yesterday that “promiscuous critics” of the leader should expect to be censured and “held to account”.

He named Chris Leslie, Neil Coyle, John Woodcock, Wes Streeting and Ian Austin among the “few dozen” MPs he said appeared to “wake up each morning thinking only, ‘how can I undermine Jeremy Corbyn today?’ ” The “Corbyn-hater MPs” were trying to “toxify” Labour and their factionalism “pollutes everything it touches”, he said in an article for the New Statesman. Although “personally not in favour” of mandatory reselection, he said he understood “why there is a growing demand” among left-wing activists for it. The party is reviewing its rules.......

Laura Janner-Klausner, senior rabbi to Reform Judaism and a Unite member, said: “When the leader of such a powerful union is overtly threatening members of parliament in his own party because of their views, when there is no room for dissent and disagreement, then we’ve entered a new phase in British history.”

Yesterday the Labour MP Ruth Smeeth was escorted by dozens of parliamentary colleagues to the disciplinary hearing of a party member accused of being antisemitic towards her.......

As Labour’s problems with antisemitism intensified last night, Jamie Susskind, a former speechwriter for Ed Miliband and ex-chairman of the Oxford University Labour Club, resigned from the party. He said his continued membership had become an “insult” to the Jewish community and his heritage.....

ORAC
26th Apr 2018, 06:55
The Times: CORBYN’S TASTE TEST

What important matter did Jeremy Corbyn have to attend to when he slipped out of a debate on antisemitism last week, missing powerful speeches by Labour MPs?

One witness tells me he overheard the Labour leader having an intense discussion during this period with Stephen Kinnock, not a normal ally, about the merits of carrot cake. They agreed that one café made a particularly fine one. A crumb of comfort in difficult times.......

Gertrude the Wombat
26th Apr 2018, 12:14
the “few dozen” MPs he said appeared to “wake up each morning thinking only, ‘how can I undermine Jeremy Corbyn today?’ ”
I'm sure some do - there must be some Labour MPs who have the interests of the country, or even just the party, at heart.

Gertrude the Wombat
26th Apr 2018, 12:23
Whereas they should be asking how they can undermine May and the Tories.
Sure, but that comes next - getting rid of Corbyn is an essential intermediate goal. Labour need to start doing something that Corbyn utterly and absolutely refuses to do, which is to be an opposition.

Espada III
26th Apr 2018, 13:08
This is how I feel.

Our family's long-term future cannot be in the UK (https://www.thejc.com/comment/columnists/our-family-s-long-term-future-cannot-be-in-the-uk-miriam-shaviv-jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-labour-1.463111)

All you anti-Zionists out there are making it harder for yourselves, as more and more Jews abandon the lands of their birth and of their grandparent's birth, to seek shelter against the gathering storm of Holocaust Part II. However this time, we will be ready, armed and prepared to destroy those who seek our destruction. Keep at it, KelvinD, your doing God's work for him.

Stan Woolley
26th Apr 2018, 13:47
This is how I feel.

Our family's long-term future cannot be in the UK (https://www.thejc.com/comment/columnists/our-family-s-long-term-future-cannot-be-in-the-uk-miriam-shaviv-jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-labour-1.463111)

All you anti-Zionists out there are making it harder for yourselves, as more and more Jews abandon the lands of their birth and of their grandparent's birth, to seek shelter against the gathering storm of Holocaust Part II. However this time, we will be ready, armed and prepared to destroy those who seek our destruction. Keep at it, KelvinD, your doing God's work for him.

Thats the problem. You really appear to believe that God is ‘on your side’.

I think Israel is so fear ridden, so full of hatred, that anyone who thinks that it is the place to be, should go there ASAP. We’ll survive perfectly well without such sad individuals. Those who seek your destruction in their heart are equally sick.

Sooner or later you will realise that love is the way out of such darkness.

Sallyann1234
26th Apr 2018, 14:27
Thats the problem. You really appear to believe that God is ‘on your side’.

I think Israel is so fear ridden, so full of hatred, that anyone who thinks that it is the place to be, should go there ASAP. We’ll survive perfectly well without such sad individuals. Those who seek your destruction in their heart are equally sick.

Sooner or later you will realise that love is the way out of such darkness.
You are wrong.

It will be a very sad day if Jewish people have to leave Britain because they feel unsafe here.

We have in the past welcomed Jews to the UK from other countries when they have been in danger, and that has not just been out of charity. They and their descendants have been of immense benefit to our country. It is now their country as well. They should be proud and happy to live here and feel welcome.

Any politician who fails to act against antisemitism should be shunned, and sacked in disgrace.

As a secondary issue, mass emigration to Israel will only increase the pressure by Zionists for even more territorial expansion, and that will exacerbate the existing problems in the region.

Highway1
26th Apr 2018, 14:29
Thats the problem. You really appear to believe that God is ‘on your side’.

I think Israel is so fear ridden, so full of hatred, that anyone who thinks that it is the place to be, should go there ASAP. We’ll survive perfectly well without such sad individuals. Those who seek your destruction in their heart are equally sick.

Sooner or later you will realise that love is the way out of such darkness.




Not feeling a lot of love for the Jews here..

Stan Woolley
26th Apr 2018, 15:39
Not feeling a lot of love for the Jews here..

Depends on the Jew. If they were open hearted I’d be as close to them as anyone else, but if they have hate in their heart, as many of them do, I would find it hard to get close to them, as I would any other person who had similar opinions, be they a fellow Scot, a Palestinian or whatever race or creed.

While I may not like their attitude toward others, I definitely wouldn’t harm them or wish them harm. I’d consider them more in need of healing..

I’m no Jesus, but I am a fan, as I am of Buddha and other enlightened people.

Espada III
26th Apr 2018, 18:14
Depends on the Jew. If they were open hearted I’d be as close to them as anyone else, but if they have hate in their heart, as many of them do, I would find it hard to get close to them, as I would any other person who had similar opinions, be they a fellow Scot, a Palestinian or whatever race or creed.

While I may not like their attitude toward others, I definitely wouldn’t harm them or wish them harm. I’d consider them more in need of healing..

I’m no Jesus, but I am a fan, as I am of Buddha and other enlightened people.



Wrong end of the stick Stan old man.

As Sally said, its got nothing to do with whether I think the Jews are right. Its the fact that I am genuinely worried for the future of me and my children in the UK. No-one in power seems capable of protecting us from the onslaught of verbal hatred which can easily spill over in violence and disenfranchisement as per the Nazis in the 1930s.

Many people who are clearly incapable of distinguishing between a hatred of racism and hatred of Israel, end up hating all Jews unless they agree 100% with their warped view. Hence the mainstream Jew in the UK looks for a safe haven. In the 1930s (and before during the Russian pogroms) those safe havens were the UK, reluctantly, the US with more open arms, South Africa, Australia and Canada. Bear in mind the hatred of Jews existed without a State of Israel and has done since you accused us of killing your Messiah. Didn't realise the Messiah liked paedophilic priests and nuns....

Anyway, we look for a safe haven and the only country which will accept me (as I'm not a multi-millionaire) is Israel simply because anyone with one Jewish grandparent is elligible for citizenship on the same basis that Hitler killed anyone with also one Jewish grandparent. It is ironic that the anti-Semities want me to leave the UK, but where can I go? The one country they hate; Israel. So you can't have it both ways. Either the anti-Semities shut up, play nicely with us, we feel safe and don't go to Israel, or they continue their nasty ways, we leave, with all our money, and go to Israel.

The most bizarre comment yesterday when Ruth Smeeth was accommpanied to the hearing in Westminster about one anti-semitic activist, was from the left-wing protestor Tony Greenstein, a nasty piece of work, Jewish but hates Israel with a passion. The typical self-hating Jew. He said “The people who live in Israel should continue to live there. The state itself, which is a racist apartheid state, should not exist.” But if the people are going to live there, and they are a majority, you have to reinvent the nation and you will end up with The State of Israel again. The man is deluded.

As I have said so many times here. Anyone who criticises Israel but has never visited it is anti-Semitic. It is easy to visit. No need for visas or minders. Just book a holiday and speak to the people, Jewish, Arab, Druze, Christian, Bahai. Speak to the Jews who voted for the Israel Labour Party (anti-Netanyahu) but find themselves boycotted by academic instituions outside Israel, even though they oppose the policies of the government. Is that fair? Where can they go to? They have no rights to live elsewhere.

It is typical of the hard left and hard right that democracy only exists for those that agree with it. And that creates anti-Semitism.

Jack D
26th Apr 2018, 18:58
Jeremy Corbyn for all his faults is not anti Semitic. A panderer to ethnic groups, even an adolescent Marxist, but one can’t deny the impression he gives as a caring individual for the less fortunate.
He is basically no Shabbas Goy who prioritizes Jewish interests, this rankles in certain quarters and the anti Semitic bandwagon rolls on, funded by .. you guessed it Jewish political fundraisers..
I don’t support Corbyn nor would I vote for him but the likes of Saunders, who’s remarkable recovery from Alzheimer’s made medical history the charmer Philip Green , Ronson , Lord Janner , Madoff , Bosky to name but a few aren’t doing the chosen people any favours ..

Espada III
26th Apr 2018, 19:03
Jeremy Corbyn for all his faults is not anti Semitic. A panderer to ethnic groups, even an adolescent Marxist, but one can’t deny the impression he gives as a caring individual for the less fortunate.
He is basically no Shabbas Goy who prioritizes Jewish interests, this rankles in certain quarters and the anti Semitic bandwagon rolls on, funded by .. you guessed it Jewish political fundraisers..
I don’t support Corbyn nor would I vote for him but the likes of Saunders, who’s remarkable recovery from Alzheimer’s made medical history the charmer Philip Green , Ronson , Lord Janner , Madoff , Bosky to name but a few aren’t doing the chosen people any favours ..

What's that got to do with it? We are not talking criminals. If you want to, then there are plenty of non-Jewish Labour MPs and Lords who were guilty of expenses fraud. And by the way Saunders wasn't Jewish.

I don't want someone who panders to my interests, I want security in the country I was born in, pay taxes in, live in and do business in. I am just a British as probaboy 50% of the population, so why do I feel unwanted?

Jack D
26th Apr 2018, 19:24
What's that got to do with it? We are not talking criminals. If you want to, then there are plenty of non-Jewish Labour MPs and Lords who were guilty of expenses fraud. And by the way Saunders wasn't Jewish.

I don't want someone who panders to my interests, I want security in the country I was born in, pay taxes in, live in and do business in. I am just a British as probaboy 50% of the population, so why do I feel unwanted?

Saunders born Ernest Walter Schleyer in Austria
parents jewish who emigrated to the UK to escape Nazi persecution .. sorry to correct you .
I don’t know why you feel unwanted , everybody wants security wherever they may live it’s a basic right in my opinion , therefore you want your interests protected.
as we all do, after all you are a normal citizen like everybody else so special interests based on ethnicity and political financial clout are to be discouraged .

Lascaille
26th Apr 2018, 19:41
I don't want someone who panders to my interests, I want security in the country I was born in, pay taxes in, live in and do business in. I am just a British as probaboy 50% of the population, so why do I feel unwanted?

You and every other UKIP voter. Please don't think your neglect is special. Very large segments of the native population in the have been expressing the exact same view for quite some time... I'm sure more than one Burnley resident wishes they had an Israel to run away to!

toratoratora
26th Apr 2018, 19:54
Labour:
For the many,not the few.
Unless you are a Jew....

Espada III
26th Apr 2018, 21:54
You and every other UKIP voter. Please don't think your neglect is special. Very large segments of the native population in the have been expressing the exact same view for quite some time... I'm sure more than one Burnley resident wishes they had an Israel to run away to!

It's not neglect is it? Its active demonisaton and abuse by the hard left. I'm not a UKIP voter, voted to remain (not that that is relevant). Yes, some Burnley resident (I'm sure you mean white), woudl like to live elsewhere, but their lives are not bein threatended just becuase they are white. My life does feel it is being threatened because I am Jewish.

Some of you just don't seem to get it. I don't want special treatment, I don't want to be singled out. I just don't want to be the subject of abuse simply because of my religion; and such a level of abuse that I genuinely fear for the future of my children in the UK. No other section of UK society can say that in terms of simply the fact of their birth religion. Unless you have walked down the street, wearing a skullcap, and have been spat at, or shouted at from a passing car none of you will understand what it means to be Jewish in Europe today. It is barely any better for us than Germany in 1933. Yes, on the surface all is wonderful; I have a good life, a good business employing over 40 staff from a wide range of backgrounds (including Muslim) and appear to be well integrated into UK society, but when someone thinks it funny to wave an axe out of the window of a van at your children and shouts "We're coming for you', as happened to my children two years ago, you know its time to do something.

So unless you have experienced that, and having done so, listened to the dreadful words coming out from Len McCluskey, the lack of action from Corbyn, the abuse hurled at Jewish MPs and other MPs supporting their colleagues, you cannot understand the level of fear in my heart. I should not be viewing Israel as the bolt hole to run to when life gets tough, it should be a religious homeland, somewhere to aspire to live in and to visit for festivals; not I'm leaving the UK because I feel safer in Israel. If I feel that (and I do) something has gone wrong in the UK.

Stan Woolley
26th Apr 2018, 23:02
It's not neglect is it? Its active demonisaton and abuse by the hard left. I'm not a UKIP voter, voted to remain (not that that is relevant). Yes, some Burnley resident (I'm sure you mean white), woudl like to live elsewhere, but their lives are not bein threatended just becuase they are white. My life does feel it is being threatened because I am Jewish.

Some of you just don't seem to get it. I don't want special treatment, I don't want to be singled out. I just don't want to be the subject of abuse simply because of my religion; and such a level of abuse that I genuinely fear for the future of my children in the UK. No other section of UK society can say that in terms of simply the fact of their birth religion. Unless you have walked down the street, wearing a skullcap, and have been spat at, or shouted at from a passing car none of you will understand what it means to be Jewish in Europe today. It is barely any better for us than Germany in 1933. Yes, on the surface all is wonderful; I have a good life, a good business employing over 40 staff from a wide range of backgrounds (including Muslim) and appear to be well integrated into UK society, but when someone thinks it funny to wave an axe out of the window of a van at your children and shouts "We're coming for you', as happened to my children two years ago, you know its time to do something.

So unless you have experienced that, and having done so, listened to the dreadful words coming out from Len McCluskey, the lack of action from Corbyn, the abuse hurled at Jewish MPs and other MPs supporting their colleagues, you cannot understand the level of fear in my heart. I should not be viewing Israel as the bolt hole to run to when life gets tough, it should be a religious homeland, somewhere to aspire to live in and to visit for festivals; not I'm leaving the UK because I feel safer in Israel. If I feel that (and I do) something has gone wrong in the UK.

I didn’t reply to your earlier post, but I will to this one.

I felt your pain in both posts, and although I disagree with much of what you have said, I agree that there’s something messed up when you feel as you do, when your kids are being threatened. I am fortunate that I am a white Brit man, I’ve never in my life felt threatened physically, nobody ought to feel threatened. I’m with you there, it can’t be nice.

Flyingbadge
27th Apr 2018, 01:37
... Philip Green , Ronson , Lord Janner , Madoff , Bosky to name but a few aren’t doing the chosen people any favours ..

Well if we're going to list a few names of naughty jews who ruin it for everyone, here's a bit of balance, courtesy of Wikipedia.

"As of 2017, Nobel prizes have been awarded to 892 individuals, of whom 201 or 22.5% were Jews, although the total Jewish population comprises less than 0.2% of the worlds population. This means the percentage of Jewish Nobel Laureates is at least 112.5 times or 11,250% above average"

ORAC
27th Apr 2018, 08:00
Rod Liddle: the Origins of Labour’s Racism

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/04/the-origins-of-labours-racism/

dsc810
27th Apr 2018, 08:37
As I have said so many times here. Anyone who criticises Israel but has never visited it is anti-Semitic. It is easy to visit. No need for visas or minders. Just book a holiday and speak to the people, Jewish, Arab, Druze, Christian, Bahai. Speak to the Jews who voted for the Israel Labour Party (anti-Netanyahu) but find themselves boycotted by academic instituions outside Israel, even though they oppose the policies of the government. Is that fair? Where can they go to? They have no rights to live elsewhere.


I cannot believe you have written his as it goes to the heart of problem.
It is the precise problem that Israel views anyone who criticizes it as anti-Semitic.
Up to now Israel has managed to keep the lid on its regular abominations by shouting down anyone who disagrees with them that "they are anti-Semitic".
Does your comment mean that we are not allowed to criticize N.Korea because virtually no one has visited it - or does this concept only apply to Israel?

As to the boycott issue you mention - errrrr that is how international sanction have always worked when applied to the like of S.Africa, Iraq, Iran etc - they apply to everyone of that country regardless of whether they support the government or not - with the express aim that it applies pressure on the government to change its ways.
Indeed perhaps that is what we need to bring Israel to heel - a international total boycott. Many years ago I worked in a department whose personnel had their own unofficial boycott of Israel. Any quote request that came in from the country was boycotted until management insisted it was done whereupon it was deliberately screwed up - including by me. Various tactics were used of course to conceal the end destination but we usually spotted them.

Anyway another poster missed off IMO the worst offender in that list of individuals not exactly doing their best to endear the chosen race to the rest of us - George Soros.

Stan Woolley
27th Apr 2018, 09:21
I cannot believe you have written his as it goes to the heart of problem.
It is the precise problem that Israel views anyone who criticizes it as anti-Semitic.
Up to now Israel has managed to keep the lid on its regular abominations by shouting down anyone who disagrees with them that "they are anti-Semitic".
Does your comment mean that we are not allowed to criticize N.Korea because virtually no one has visited it - or does this concept only apply to Israel?.

Everything you say in your post is what I might have written, but I have learned that it’s better to leave such posts to those that are better able to write them, such as yourself.

I’ve come to think that arguing back and forward with people with deeply entrenched views such as Espada, does no good. When the Israeli State is responsible for headlines such as:

40 Dead, 5,511 Wounded: UN Releases Figures on Palestinian Casualties in Gaza's Mass Protests on Israel Border.

yet the media in our country remain largely silent, preferring to keep up the Jeremy is an antiSemite bollocks. As Miko Peled says in this video, If being an anti Semite means opposing this violence, what does that make anyone who supports it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0fl8a0v6VM

ORAC
27th Apr 2018, 09:41
I refer you to the article by Rod Liddle above......

......”Take just one example: the BDS movement. This stands for Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions, and it aims to denude Israel and Israelis of money, prestige, recognition, employment and, in the end, its existence. The BDS will tell you that it is anti-Zionist, not anti-Jewish. But it is explicitly anti-Jewish. One of the things it has been quite successful in campaigning for is stopping Israeli academics taking up posts, or speaking, in western universities. It has been successful in this because paradoxically, you might think, our universities are stuffed with some of the most stupid people on God’s earth and they have been cheerful signatories to this racism.

But BDS does not actually mean ‘Israeli’ academics. It means only Jewish academics. It is quite clear about this. Arabs who live in Israel are specifically exempted from their repulsive bullying: the boycott is just for the Jews. And the British far left, not terribly bright, goes along with this business and eventually starts parroting it itself, eventually recycling the old conspiracy myths, the blood libel, the Jews controlling everything.

You may remember that a bunch of ‘senior academics’ (they were nothing of the kind, as Douglas Murray has hilariously detailed on The Spectator’s website) signed a letter which insisted that the claims of anti-Semitism within the Labour party were cooked up by Corbyn’s enemies and had no basis in fact. One of the signatories, Jane Dipple from Winchester ‘university’, whose field of expertise is zombies (I kid you not), has since been suspended by Labour … for anti-Semitic posts she had made on pro-Palestinian social media sites. Including one site which reproduced articles from The Daily Stormer, an American neo-Nazi publication.

That’s how it happens with the lefties. If you bathe in excrement, you’ll end up smelling of it.”

Stan Woolley
27th Apr 2018, 09:59
Arabs who live in Israel are specifically exempted from their repulsive bullying: the boycott is just for the Jews.

What about the Arabs that live in Gaza? Is there any comparison between the ‘repulsive bullying’ that the Jews mentioned above supposedly receive, and 40 DEAD 5511 WOUNDED?

Words fail me.

ORAC
27th Apr 2018, 10:09
Whataboutery strikes again....

Stan Woolley
27th Apr 2018, 10:16
Whataboutery strikes again....

What about answering the question?

What about answering the question?

What about answering the question?

ORAC
27th Apr 2018, 10:18
What bearing does it have to antisemitism in the Labour party?

ShotOne
27th Apr 2018, 10:30
Valid question Stan but nothing to do with the toxic affairs of the Labour Party. It's interesting to contrast Labour demands for resignations over the Home Office Windrush failings with their own point-blank refusal to accept responsibility by anyone in the party.

Sallyann1234
27th Apr 2018, 10:39
As I have said so many times here. Anyone who criticises Israel but has never visited it is anti-Semitic. It is easy to visit. No need for visas or minders.
And that's where you begin to lose the sympathy.

As I said above you should be welcome here and feel safe. There should be no need to run away to Israel or anywhere else to avoid the evil of racism. All forms of racism are wrong and should be condemned.

But I reserve the right to criticise the mistakes of Israel and the ambitions of Zionism, on an equal basis to my condemnation of those Muslims who want to destroy the state of Israel that has every right to exist.

Calling everyone who criticises Israel an anti-Semite is not an easy get-out, and does you no favours at all. On the contrary, it drives away people who might otherwise have warm feelings towards your cause.

Sallyann1234
27th Apr 2018, 11:38
Quite entertaining watching all the lefties get their knickers in a twist saying they cannot criticise Israel without being labelled racist.

They have been doing this for years to close down any debate on immigration. All those that voted to leave the EU were racist bigots. Anyone that votes UKIP is a racist. etc. etc. etc.

You really ought to learn how to make a comment without contradicting yourself. :{

Stan Woolley
27th Apr 2018, 11:56
.Says it all really.......

“Jenny Manson, Co-Chair Jewish Voice for Labour (JVL): "I want serious consideration of antisemitism in the Labour Party" [evidence led]. "I do not want any more allegations treated as truth and being used to criticise the Labour Party." "The Conservative Party...have got links with some of the right wing parties in Europe and I am very concerned about that." "I have been in the Labour Party for 50 years, I have never experienced antisemitism" [inside the Party].”

https://youtu.be/Q1d70dsku5o

Gault
27th Apr 2018, 12:21
I think we have established it is wrong to hate another ethnicity?, By their actions the Arabs and Jews are guilty of such hatred on a large scale yet it is they that protest the loudest, how about letting your actions be the measure of what you are and not be judged by the lies and pretences you spew out?

Highway1
27th Apr 2018, 13:47
Ah - the Jewish Voice for Labour. The group that organised a demonstration against the anti-antisemitism demonstration in Parliament Square.

The sound of hastily trying to sweep things under the carpet..

flash8
27th Apr 2018, 15:06
There are those that are whipping up this hysteria for their own nefarious purposes, but united in wanting to keep Corbyn out. I don't think they will succeed. The MSM has lost much of its efficacy over the last decade and now many simply seek out alternative news (often deemed by the MSM as "fake" news). The MSM are shouting to a deaf audience, and increasingly loudly.

Espada III
27th Apr 2018, 15:22
And that's where you begin to lose the sympathy.

As I said above you should be welcome here and feel safe. There should be no need to run away to Israel or anywhere else to avoid the evil of racism. All forms of racism are wrong and should be condemned.

But I reserve the right to criticise the mistakes of Israel and the ambitions of Zionism, on an equal basis to my condemnation of those Muslims who want to destroy the state of Israel that has every right to exist.

Calling everyone who criticises Israel an anti-Semite is not an easy get-out, and does you no favours at all. On the contrary, it drives away people who might otherwise have warm feelings towards your cause.

Except you appear to condemn Israel without having verified the 'facts' you quote independently. All the left wingers call Israel 'apartheid'. But that implies a totally separate state within a state for those not part of the ruling classes; i.e. like South Affrica was. So how do you explain an Arab on the Supreme Court, one of the most senior Policemen in the country being an Arab, Arabs living side by side with Jews in all parts of the country especially in the Galillee? Like I said, go and visit, listen, look, evaluate and discuss. Then decide. Until you do that any criticism is simply repeating tropes spouted by anti-Semites.

KelvinD
27th Apr 2018, 15:33
Ah - the Jewish Voice for Labour.
So what you are saying one is lot of Jews, belonging to one side of politics is to be derided and ignored but another lot of Jews belonging to a different political side is to be regarded as infallible.

Sallyann1234
27th Apr 2018, 15:42
Except you appear to condemn Israel without having verified the 'facts' you quote independently. All the left wingers call Israel 'apartheid'. But that implies a totally separate state within a state for those not part of the ruling classes; i.e. like South Affrica was. So how do you explain an Arab on the Supreme Court, one of the most senior Policemen in the country being an Arab, Arabs living side by side with Jews in all parts of the country especially in the Galillee? Like I said, go and visit, listen, look, evaluate and discuss. Then decide. Until you do that any criticism is simply repeating tropes spouted by anti-Semites.
I look at all the 'facts' quoted by both sides, and make my judgement accordingly. I believe that extremists on both sides have much to be condemned for, and that innocent, peaceful minded people on both sides are suffering because of them.

I'm sorry if that doesn't accord with your views, and I'm sure it doesn't accord with many on the other side to yours. But I believe that someone looking from outside the situation is more able to form a balanced view than those who are invested in either Israel or Palestine.

As to the left-wingers, they must answer for their own actions. That seems to be what this thead is about.

Highway1
27th Apr 2018, 15:53
So what you are saying one is lot of Jews, belonging to one side of politics is to be derided and ignored but another lot of Jews belonging to a different political side is to be regarded as infallible.

Not at all - but I treat with suspicion any group that organises a demonstration against a demonstration protesting antisemitism because it conflicts with their political priorities as somewhat suspect.

I would hope that you do the same. ;)

toratoratora
28th Apr 2018, 14:01
Really wish people would stop confusing anti-semitism with anti-Zionism. Pretty basic stuff.
There are plenty of Labour supporting Jews who are anti-Zionist. That is their right.
However-Espada is quite right. Go and visit the place-talk to Israeli Arabs. It is really very enlightening....

Dutystude
28th Apr 2018, 15:43
Really wish people would stop confusing anti-semitism with anti-Zionism. Pretty basic stuff.
There are plenty of Labour supporting Jews who are anti-Zionist. That is their right.
However-Espada is quite right. Go and visit the place-talk to Israeli Arabs. It is really very enlightening....

Anti-Zionism is a repudiation of the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the historical land of Israel. To deny probably the most persecuted people in recorded history the right to a homeland seems pretty anti-semitic to me.

Sallyann1234
28th Apr 2018, 16:24
Anti-Zionism is a repudiation of the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the historical land of Israel. To deny probably the most persecuted people in recorded history the right to a homeland seems pretty anti-semitic to me.
That definition is out of date, since the Jewish homeland has long been established in Israel.
To me, and I suspect to many others, modern day Zionism is about the continued expansion of Israel settlements into Palestine..

Highway1
28th Apr 2018, 17:19
That definition is out of date, since the Jewish homeland has long been established in Israel.
To me, and I suspect to many others, modern day Zionism is about the continued expansion of Israel settlements into Palestine..

That's a bit of a myth isn't it?. There was no reduction in anti-zionism when Israel were handing over great swathes of land - I suspect that the anti-zionists will not be satisfied until Israel ceases to exist.

https://www.pprune.org/members/475048-highway1-albums-pics-picture1192-israeli-land-concessions.jpg

Sallyann1234
28th Apr 2018, 17:48
That's a bit of a myth isn't it?. There was no reduction in anti-zionism when Israel were handing over great swathes of land - I suspect that the anti-zionists will not be satisfied until Israel ceases to exist.

https://www.pprune.org/members/475048-highway1-albums-pics-picture1192-israeli-land-concessions.jpg
Ah yes. The carefully selected 1967 map of land temporarily held by Israel after the six-day war.
And then the 2011 map not showing the latest settlements in Palestinian land.

If you don't mind I will stick to the definitive UN map of the two states.

Dutystude
28th Apr 2018, 17:55
That definition is out of date, since the Jewish homeland has long been established in Israel.
To me, and I suspect to many others, modern day Zionism is about the continued expansion of Israel settlements into Palestine..

Sorry Sally but I don’t think you get to re-define Zionism.

Bit like like one of our regular ‘anti-Zionist’ posters on an earlier thread attempting to re-define antisemitism as pertaining to Arabs as well as Jews because they are all semites.

The epithet Zionist has carried negative connotations for decades. Some of the most appalling antisemitic caricatures are labelled Zionist. I have no problem with criticism of Israel (or any other country). But Anti-Zionist is either lazy or a thinly veiled proxy for anti-Semitic.

Highway1
28th Apr 2018, 18:43
Ah yes. The carefully selected 1967 map of land temporarily held by Israel after the six-day war.
And then the 2011 map not showing the latest settlements in Palestinian land.

If you don't mind I will stick to the definitive UN map of the two states.

Well you can pick whatever map you like but the point still remains - when Israel have given up great swathes of countryside there has been no reduction in anti-Zionism. If Israel totally pulled out of the West Bank as they have already done in Gaza anti-Zionism wouldn't disappear.

Sallyann1234
28th Apr 2018, 19:05
Well you can pick whatever map you like but the point still remains - when Israel have given up great swathes of countryside there has been no reduction in anti-Zionism. If Israel totally pulled out of the West Bank as they have already done in Gaza anti-Zionism wouldn't disappear.

This is clearly one of those subjects where "if you aren't for us you are against us", so agreement is most unlikely.

I'm sure if I posted on a forum with Palestinian supporters they would disagree with me just as strongly. :(

KelvinD
28th Apr 2018, 19:12
Israel has never given up great swathes of land. At best, they have returned lands belonging to others which they had occupied at some point.
And is it a tradition for Israel and Israelis to always want "a homeland"? Prior to the occupation in 1968, the argument had been Israelis/Jews need a homeland they can call their own. They already had one, Courtesy of Stalin. It seems this has gone out of favour now with massive emigration from the area. Still, they did (and still have) their own "homeland". Perhaps it wasn't warm enough?

Gertrude the Wombat
28th Apr 2018, 19:17
If you don't mind I will stick to the definitive UN map of the two states.
No such thing. All there is is a series of ceasefire lines, lines of control. ect ect.

Gertrude the Wombat
28th Apr 2018, 19:19
And is it a tradition for Israel and Israelis to always want "a homeland"?
How old does something need to be to count as a "tradition" for you? Is the 2,000 years since the destruction of the temple not long enough?

ORAC
8th May 2018, 20:46
You couldn’t make it up........

https://order-order.com/2018/05/08/labour-nec-make-jewish-members-stand-outside-room-anti-semitism-meeting/

KelvinD
8th May 2018, 23:12
You couldn’t make it up........
But you just did!
Read the last paragraph in your linked article again.