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anchorhold
9th Mar 2018, 08:27
What is it about the UK and proving your identity.

A case in point to change your address on a flight crew licence you have to prove your identity and address through a FTO. The situation is similar with banks.

Likewise, there is now a pilot scheme that you need photo ID to vote.

The problem here is that soime people do not have photo ID in terms of a driving licencem, passport or utility bills.

It also concerns me that homeless people have no identity in order to claim benefits.

What is the way forward?

mikemmb
9th Mar 2018, 08:52
The way we are going at the moment it would not surprise me if plans were being prepared for the UK population to have an identity chip embedded in their body.
Similar to the dog ID system.

............form a line, shuffle forward one by one!

treadigraph
9th Mar 2018, 08:54
I had to prove my identity online yesterday using one of six approved organisations and three methods of i/d. Driving licence was fine, credit card was fine, phone contract was fine, don't have a current passport. My bank (one of the largest in the country) wasn't accepted by one, two of the others required a passport, finally the fourth accepted a combination of what I do have. Took about two hours... :mad:

ian16th
9th Mar 2018, 08:57
What is the way forward?

Photo ID cards.

I have carried my SA 'Book of Life' for over 30 years, it works!

treadigraph
9th Mar 2018, 08:58
I'm happy to have one...

Hokulea
9th Mar 2018, 09:04
Not just the UK. ID problems are causing concerns in the US as well:

https://www.dhs.gov/real-id

"NOTE: For states/territories that are not compliant and do not have an extension, REAL ID enforcement begins on February 5, 2018."

Many states are compliant, but it's not clear at all if a current driving license will be enough to travel domestically. New licenses have a symbol saying they are ID compliant, but that isn't true for most people whose license is still valid for a time. I don't know how that's being handled.

anchorhold
9th Mar 2018, 09:18
Ian16th..... The UK tried to introduced an identity card, but the trial failed. In Northern Ireland a photo ID driving licence was introduced during the troubles as a alternative to an ID card, but not much use unless you had a drivining licence.

I still have the paper driving licence valid until I am seventy, saving me ten pounds to renew it every ten years.

To add to this, solicitors under 'due diligence' require identity yet there are alternatives to photo ID. Banks will accept a firearms certificate, but quite how they know what a firearms certificate looks like, who knows. Another oddity is that the CAA in the 1970s issued CPLs which included photo ID.

ATNotts
9th Mar 2018, 09:22
What is it about the UK and proving your identity.

The simple words that will soon appear under the UK's coat of arms:-

"Security is Paramount"

Which gives carte blanche to authorities at all levels to make us the most "watched2 nation in Europe.

Be sure if in the 1980s any eastern European country put in place as much CCTV, ANPR and the like as we now have we'd be name calling them things like "totalitarian states" and using terms like "big brother". As it's in the UK it's all easily enough explained away in the name of protecting the public.

ORAC
9th Mar 2018, 09:33
In Northern Ireland a photo ID driving licence was introduced during the troubles as a alternative to an ID card, but not much use unless you had a drivining licence. In the USA you do not need a photo ID, but try getting along without a driving licence. Can’t drive? No problem, you can get a non-driver card from the DMV....

http://www.dot.nd.gov/divisions/driverslicense/dlnewlicense.htm

http://www.dot.nd.gov/imgs/dl2006/IDsm.jpg

ORAC
9th Mar 2018, 09:41
Ask the Labour Party.....

ID Checks Short-Listing and Selection Meetings - Tottenham Labour (http://www.tottenhamlabour.org.uk/id_checks_short_listing_and_selection_meetings)

sitigeltfel
9th Mar 2018, 10:01
I was in London over the weekend and as a guest of a friend who is a Judge I sat in on a court case to see how the court system works.
The trial, on Monday and Tuesday, concerned an African gentleman who had offered up an expired false UK passport at a recruitment agency as ID.
His attempt at deception was laughable, he had stuck his own photo onto it and covered it with clear adhesive film.
For reasons I won't go into the trial was abandoned on Tuesday morning, and rescheduled for May.
Only afterwards did I learn that it was his ninth offence of a similar nature, and despite orders for deportation, he is still in the UK!

charliegolf
9th Mar 2018, 10:50
I was in London over the weekend and as a guest of a friend who is a Judge I sat in on a court case to see how the court system works.
The trial, on Monday and Tuesday, concerned an African gentleman who had offered up an expired false UK passport at a recruitment agency as ID.
His attempt at deception was laughable, he had stuck his own photo onto it and covered it with clear adhesive film.
For reasons I won't go into the trial was abandoned on Tuesday morning, and rescheduled for May.
Only afterwards did I learn that it was his ninth offence of a similar nature,
and despite orders for deportation, he is still in the UK!

No passport, can't board the plane. Obvs innit!:E

CG

sitigeltfel
9th Mar 2018, 10:57
No passport, can't board the plane. Obvs innit!:E

CG

His Ghanaian one was current.

ian16th
9th Mar 2018, 10:58
Ian16th..... The UK tried to introduced an identity card, but the trial failed. In Northern Ireland a photo ID driving licence was introduced during the troubles as a alternative to an ID card, but not much use unless you had a drivining licence.

I still have the paper driving licence valid until I am seventy, saving me ten pounds to renew it every ten years.

To add to this, solicitors under 'due diligence' require identity yet there are alternatives to photo ID. Banks will accept a firearms certificate, but quite how they know what a firearms certificate looks like, who knows. Another oddity is that the CAA in the 1970s issued CPLs which included photo ID.

Anchor,
What you say maybe true, but a single commonly recognisable ID, is much simpler.

I too wouldn't recognise a firearms certificate; as to the best of my knowledge, in my 80 years I've never seen one.

longer ron
9th Mar 2018, 11:05
Does not bother me to have an ID card - I got the photo driving licence because it is useful.
Seems a long time since my 1250 :cool:

Trossie
9th Mar 2018, 11:08
I heard this one summed up beautifully a while ago:

"Freedom is where the State has to identify itself to you; a lack of freedom is where you have to identify yourself to the State."

I have lived in both and I far prefer freedom.

By all means if you want to have your own photo ID, you are entitled to the freedom of that choice. Compulsory photo ID? NO!!

ian16th
9th Mar 2018, 12:13
By all means if you want to have your own photo ID, you are entitled to the freedom of that choice. Compulsory photo ID? NO!!

But don't complain if you are excluded from anything, because of the choice that you made.

Trossie
9th Mar 2018, 12:21
If it's 'free market' and there is a choice, that's fair enough.

If it means being excluded by the State then that is a clear lack of freedom. We own the State, the State doesn't own us.That is a fundamental of freedom.

NRU74
9th Mar 2018, 13:24
[QUOTE=ORAC;10078027]In the USA you do not need a photo ID, but try getting along without a driving licence. Canít drive? No problem, you can get a non-driver card from the DMV..../QUOTE]

As a matter of interest, why is she Susan Catherine Sample Esquire ?

DaveReidUK
9th Mar 2018, 13:39
As a matter of interest, why is she Susan Catherine Sample Esquire ?

Courtesy title for an attorney (of either gender) in the US.

NRU74
9th Mar 2018, 14:12
Courtesy title for an attorney (of either gender) in the US.

Thanks, Iíve learned something today !

Pontius Navigator
9th Mar 2018, 14:19
I am an exam invigilator. I am required to check each Candie against a photo ID. For those that do not have a passport or driving licence there is an official ID Card that these people can buy. An OU or NUS students ID card was not acceptable, nor was a military ID card unless the exam in at centre was on a base.

Last year we had one who brought her driving licence. It was a paper only one and not acceptable.

Gertrude the Wombat
9th Mar 2018, 16:56
What is it about the UK and proving your identity.
The "problem" is that we aren't a police state where you can be stopped in the street and arrested for not carrying your state-issued ID card (like, eg, France).

Which means that on the whole people aren't in the habit of carrying state issued ID around in their pockets, which means that when someone asks for ID it's slightly more hassle to produce it than it would be if we lived in a police state.


I do not think the answer is to convert the UK to a police state.

Pontius Navigator
9th Mar 2018, 17:22
GTW, indeed, we are buying lots of things for a new home and often see special 0% offers. As we don't go shopping with driving licences, passports and utility bills we trip at the first fence. Then add How long have you lived at . . . and we say one week. Nightmare.

longer ron
9th Mar 2018, 17:29
The "problem" is that we aren't a police state where you can be stopped in the street and arrested for not carrying your state-issued ID card (like, eg, France).

Which means that on the whole people aren't in the habit of carrying state issued ID around in their pockets, which means that when someone asks for ID it's slightly more hassle to produce it than it would be if we lived in a police state.


I do not think the answer is to convert the UK to a police state.

My driving licence is the same size as my bank cards,when I put it in my wallet it did not feel heavy or difficult to carry :)

I have never been asked to produce my ID by our 'police state' state police (except when I got stopped for speeding LOL)

When I worked abroad I was required to carry official ID at all times - it is not difficult is it ? many countries require ID.
If one has nothing to hide then I fail to see big problem ??

Trossie
9th Mar 2018, 18:05
...
If one has nothing to hide then I fail to see big problem ??"Nothing to hide", ahh, that old chestnut! Same as the Nazis and Soviets would have said.

Gertrude the Wombat, I fully agree with you on this one.

Pontius Navigator, what exams are those? The concept of 'buying' an ID card creates an interesting situation!

By all means there will be 'specific purpose' ID cards (airline security ID being one very good example). You chose to be involved in those activities and that is part of the job/activity. Same as you choose to drive and you have a drivers licence (although I'm sticking to the paper one only for now) and if you choose to travel you have a passport. Don't choose to do any of those and you there is no compulsion to have any 'photo ID'.

The State does not own us, we own the State.

ShyTorque
9th Mar 2018, 18:28
I still have the paper driving licence valid until I am seventy, saving me ten pounds to renew it every ten years.Actually you are not required to renew your driving licence itself. But, you are required by law to renew the photograph, that's what is emphasised on the renewal paperwork. This is because those in authority recognise that our appearance changes as we get older.

The really stupid thing is that you are not required to have the replacement photo countersigned as a "true likeness", unlike the original and as far as I can see, it doesn't legally need to be a more recent one....nor is there any way of checking that it is.

I look surprisingly young on my renewed driving licence... I just happened to have a photo of the right size in my drawer - then saw no logic in going out and having another taken at my expense.... say no more.

longer ron
9th Mar 2018, 20:42
"Nothing to hide", ahh, that old chestnut! Same as the Nazis and Soviets would have said.

Ahh - that other old chestnut :hmm:

My 'nothing to hide' meant that I live within the law and legally live in the UK and also that I do not mind producing ID to vote since I am not trying to 'rig' any voting (unlike some parties ;))
But you knew that and still could not resist a cheap and much overused shot LOL



The State does not own us, we own the State.

A bit overegging the pudding old bean - I was merely suggesting that a photo driving licence is a useful form of ID,I used it as a travel doc when I used to 'commute' every week between Brizzle Lulsgate Bottom and 'No Mean City' every week (saved carrying passport LOL).

CoodaShooda
9th Mar 2018, 21:44
We have plastic, credit card sized drivers licenses with photo i.d..

Our Motor Vehicle Registries will also do a non-driver's photo i.d. card for use in getting into clubs or buying booze from a bottle shop. (We have a Banned Drinkers Register which means buying booze at the local club requires you to scan your club membership card, your drivers license and your debit/credit card. Bottle shops just require the license and the credit card.)

You can have your new passport mailed to your post office box or street address, no questions asked. But don't try collecting it from the passports office unless you have other photo i.d. . The jobsworths refuse to hand it over without proof of identity. Apparently the concept of opening the passport and looking at the photo has not yet occurred to them.

larssnowpharter
10th Mar 2018, 02:57
Just wish to correct the view that the UK does not issue State ID cards. If you are a non EU citizen with a 'Permit to Remain' in the UK you have to get an photo ID. This can be obtained at a large Post Office. The ID will have printed on it 'No Recourse to Public Funds'. Costs about 20 quid.

My wife has one, employs 3 UK citizens, pays NI and income tax as well as a hefty payment to the NHS every couple of years.

DON T
10th Mar 2018, 03:28
Many years ago whilst paying by cheque in my local supermarket I was asked for ID because the bill was more than the £50 limit on the cheque card. I produced my RAF form 1250 (service ID card). The lady at the till said, ‘I can’t accept that, haven’t you got a library ticket?’

I hope she enjoyed putting everything back on the shelves.

Krystal n chips
10th Mar 2018, 04:12
The State does not own us, we own the State.

Bingo !.....you see, all the time there lay within you that inner and embryonic socialist just waiting to emerge !

Of course, if you are referring to Yorkshire, then presumably you are referring to the bit at the top as it's long been a Tory enclave....

As for photo ID driving licences, one is pleased to modestly say ones photo depicts ones eternal youthful good looks, not ravaged by time, along with ones lithe physique as ones jaw doesn't resemble the stomach of a Vietnamese pot belly pig ( apologies to the pig for the comparison here ) compared to many who have over indulged themselves in the name of gluttony over their life.

Trossie
10th Mar 2018, 07:18
Absolutely not, old boy! One does not know too much about political science, does one? One has a rather distorted view of real socialism, where the individual is submerged within the social collective and is 'owned' by that collective. (One does like to try to sound so spiffingly upper class by constantly referring to oneself as 'one', doesn't one?)

Ney lad, I'm a democratic individualist, the exact opposite of that horrible bossy socialism. And the closest that we came to the state dictatorial horrors of state imposed compulsory national ID cards was under the St Tonyism brand of socialist control. I am me. I am not what the state says I am. The state is what individuals like me have democratically decided it is going to be.

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Mar 2018, 07:54
I am me. I am not what the state says I am. The state is what individuals like me have democratically decided it is going to be.
Tick. VG. 10/10.

It's even on my party card: "a ... society in which ... no one shall be enslaved by ... conformity".

Meldrew
10th Mar 2018, 08:39
Just renewed my drivers licence online, due to approaching seventy years young.
I was not required to provide an updated photo.

RAT 5
10th Mar 2018, 08:53
Solution? Always carry a small pocket mirror. When asked to 'identify yourself' you clasp mirror in selfie mode and answer, "yep, that's me." Then wait for the loss of humour explosion and duck. :roll eyes:

But seriously, outside UK an ID is required for lots of scenarios: e.g. collecting parcels from post office, collecting e-mailed prescriptions from pharmacies, conducting various matters at the town hall, reapplying for passports & driving licences (you'd think the old one was sufficient), registering a car, staying overnight in many hotels, attending hospital appointments unless the doctor is familiar with you, various financial contracts that involve regular bank payments, etc. A photo driving licence is adequate. If you don't drive then you apply for a local council ID card. Simple. It's not a police state thing, per se, it is a fraud prevention thing. Identity theft can cause you financial pain.

ian16th
10th Mar 2018, 09:08
Of course, if you are referring to Yorkshire, then presumably you are referring to the bit at the top as it's long been a Tory enclave....


If you orientate you map the normal way with north at the top, can I as a native of the most northerly town in Yorkshire, point out that the northern part of Yorkshire is most definitely not a Tory Enclave.

longer ron
10th Mar 2018, 09:15
Saw this on FB
Hey its on the internet - it must be true LOL
Made me laugh anyway :)

https://i.imgur.com/0FzyGGZ.jpg

longer ron
10th Mar 2018, 09:22
A photo driving licence is adequate. If you don't drive then you apply for a local council ID card. Simple. It's not a police state thing, per se, it is a fraud prevention thing. Identity theft can cause you financial pain.

Absolutely spot on - what I have been saying is that having a photo ID is extremely useful and actually makes certain things much easier,that is really an advantage at times.
I really do not give a fekk about what the government thinks LOL

anchorhold
10th Mar 2018, 09:33
A couple of points to add;

(a) On identity theft, I am always being asked my date of birth, as 'a security measure' so these days I have an alternative birthday.

(b) Regarding driving licences in the UK, if you have someone DOB and national insurance number, you can look up someones driving licence details.

(c) I find it a bit sad that you look under twenty five in a bar or pub you are required to produce ID. when I was seventeen we used to drink in pubs, as long as you behaved yourself it was not a roblem.

(d) I know a few female judges who in court use a maiden name and outside court use their married name. I have often wondered how this works in terms of ID or driving licence. Can you legally have two names?

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Mar 2018, 09:37
having a photo ID is extremely useful
I used to carry around an out of date Cambridge University Library card for this purpose (which had expired some decades ago), but I seem to have lost it; anyway, I don't really look very much like that photo any more. These days I just tell people to google me - if they won't trust newspaper and council ect ect web sites then they're daft, I can't have faked all of them.

Fareastdriver
10th Mar 2018, 10:42
Most of South East Asia requires you to have photographic ID with you. In China they would check your passport and visa at the same time. I went to a photo shop and they reproduced my passport mug shot page and visa in to two credit card sized copies that fitted into a handy plastic wallet similar to the ones you get with rail tickets in the UK.

This was fireproof and especially useful when travelling on the Shenzhen Metro. Flash you card at the security gate and they let you through for free because travel for over 60s is complimentary.

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Mar 2018, 11:52
Most of South East Asia requires you to have photographic ID with you.
Dunno if Burma quite counts as South East Asia, but there you have to show your passport for domestic train rides. Still, I was aware that I was going somewhere unusual and would probably have to follow some unusual rules.

Krystal n chips
10th Mar 2018, 12:20
Flash you card at the security gate and they let you through for free because travel for over 60s is complimentary.

Didn't flashing your usual source of getting a freebie, the BALPA card, have the same effect then ?

Pontius Navigator
10th Mar 2018, 13:20
Trossie, Open University.

I am also a Poll Clerk. Friend comes in, Hello John. Are you John Smith?

I am or that is me, is the response even though I know him!

Interestingly, we mislaid our passports on moving house and needed replacements PDQ. We had to get photographs counter signed even though we found the originals and have sent them off with the applications.*

*We reported our loss to our credit card insurers, they will pay for the replacements.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was
10th Mar 2018, 23:22
The state is what individuals like me have democratically decided it is going to be.
So if that state in the form that individuals like you have democratically decided it will have chooses to do something that you disagree with, you don't have to do it? Seems slightly hypocritical, and unworkable.

ExSp33db1rd
11th Mar 2018, 03:46
In the days of Yore, when I still enjoyed Staff Travel ( BA are barstewards ) and we were starting a family, I envisaged a situation where it might be a last minute decision as to which parent took the only available seat home, and which infant to take ?

So, being unable to put both children on both parents' passports - they said - I applied for a passport for both children in their own names, the younger being only 6 months old at the time, so I sent the usual Grannie Boasting photo of my youngest son, nearly naked on a rug in front of the fire, with an application in his name.

I was of course questioned by some Civil Servant as to my strange request, and so I suggested that he allow me to put both children on both parents passports and explained the reasoning behind my request, cannot, he replied, so do it my way then. Eventually he agreed, but "strongly advised" that I send another photo before the normal expiry date ! Won one.

Two years ago, on holiday in California, I received papers from my solicitor at home in NZ to be signed, and be witnessed as to authenticity of the signatory - me. Seeing a sign advertising Notary Public I innocently suggested that I sign the papers in front of the said Notary - clearly of Indian descent, tho' of course I can't vouch for his Citizenship - but he refused. Need I.D. I had my NZ photo driving licence, so produced that, no good, need to see passport. Why ? To prove from your Imm. arrival stamp that you have a legal right to be in the USA. FFS what difference does that make, you can see that I'm whom I'm declaring to be, I'm a citizen of a foreign country anyway. Cannot, accompanied by much wobbling of the head.

Pontius Navigator
11th Mar 2018, 08:05
So if that state in the form that individuals like you have democratically decided it will have chooses to do something that you disagree with, you don't have to do it? Seems slightly hypocritical, and unworkable.
You misunderstand democracy. The people agree to abide by the decision majority as represented by their elected representative.

Remember, though I disagree with your views, I will defend with my life your right to express them. (Metaphorically)

Traffic_Is_Er_Was
11th Mar 2018, 13:23
You misunderstand democracy. The people agree to abide by the decision majority as represented by their elected representative.

Remember, though I disagree with your views, I will defend with my life your right to express them. (Metaphorically)

I understand democracy. I was commenting that democratic individualists don't seem to.

RAT 5
11th Mar 2018, 13:37
I'll make a simple observation. I've lived outside UK for 30 years. That may or may not be relevant, but having a photo ID on you, e.g. credit card driving licence, makes life much easier than not having one. It really is that simple, especially as I cross borders in EU on any spontaneous day.
It's nothing to be wary of, it just makes life easier.

Gertrude the Wombat
11th Mar 2018, 13:40
I understand democracy. I was commenting that democratic individualists don't seem to.
The "correct" response to what you perceive as a "wrong" democratic decision can be to use any part of the political process, depending on what the decision was, how "wrong" it was, how much you care, how nutty you are, and so on. Civil disobedience comes lower down that scale than insurrection and terrorism, but anyone choosing the civil disobedience approach needs to be aware that there could be consequences.

The only civil disobedience I routinely deliberately indulge in is not carrying my passport with me whilst out and about in a supposedly civilised democracy. This once cost me half a morning wasted in a French police station (they got bored and told us to piss off when their lunch arrived, France being France).

ExSp33db1rd
12th Mar 2018, 07:49
Once approached the bar of a California pub with my order for my crew sat at a nearby table, one of whom might well have raised questions about his age, even tho' he was "legal".

The barmaid, Irish, asked to see my I.D. I explained that I didn't have one, as I knew who I was. Service refused. Left, Right, Left, Right out in the street.

In the next pub we hid the "youngster" out of sight and got our beer.

On another occasion, when I was the youngest member of the crew at age 28, service refused for anyone until I could prove my age. As it happened I did carry my old Canadian drivers licence, from my RCAF flying training days, which had no photo but declared my age as 21 1/2 Jobsworth satisfied and we got our beer.

I'm still mystified, at age 83, when I'm asked for proof of age, as occasionally happens, but as my D.Lic. does show this I have no bother, but would be a bit pissed off I couldn't and was a still asked.

treadigraph
12th Mar 2018, 10:22
Friend of mine turned 60; at Duxford for Flying Legends he enquired at the ticket hut what the concession ticket was.

DX: "Over 60..."

Bob: "Do you want to see proof?"

DX: "That won't be necessary sir..."


I was only charged for a concessionary ticket at the Arundel cricket ground a couple of years ago; when I said slightly incredulously "I'm only 51" they replied, "that's OK, you can be a student then".

Fairdealfrank
5th Apr 2018, 02:35
If one has nothing to hide then I fail to see big problem ??

...and if someone you associate with does (unknown to you of course)??

ian16th
5th Apr 2018, 07:47
I used to be asked to prove I was a pensioner, now they just look at me & give me the discount :(

Hydromet
5th Apr 2018, 11:34
I have two daughters. One was never asked for ID, and was passing for 18 when she was 14. The other was asked for ID when she was 32.

I was once staying in a hotel where a high school boys basketball team was staying. In the guests' lounge one of the mothers who was chaperoning them, dressed in a track suit like the boys, was asked if she was over 18 when she ordered an alcoholic drink. Suffice to say, she did not feel insulted.

radeng
6th Apr 2018, 10:54
I have heard a number of times that UK Forces ID cards are not considered satisfactory for proving ID. Presumably they are good enough to allow access to MoD facilities, so why are they not acceptable elsewhere?

I could just about understand a problem with a US ID in the UK if the month wasn't spelt out - mrs radeng had a number US share dividend cheques rejected by the bank 'because they are out of date'. Obviously some bank employees aren't educated!

I did once get asked in the US "What month is 21?".................

Prawn2king4
6th Apr 2018, 12:28
China's Social Credit System seeks to assign citizens scores, engineer social behaviour - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-31/chinas-social-credit-system-punishes-untrustworthy-citizens/9596204)

Blues&twos
6th Apr 2018, 14:50
Radeng, in my sector of the pharmaceutical industry we must write the date on all our documentation in the format ddmmmyy (e.g. 06Apr18), to avoid that day/month confusion with our US division.

G-CPTN
6th Apr 2018, 15:04
When I worked in Denmark, dates were expressed as YYYYMMDD and it was used as a search item on reports - which could be further delineated by adding the time (using the 24 hour clock - including minutes and seconds if necessary).

Another thing they used was 'day of the year' which was useful for estimating lead times for projects with 30 days/60 days/90 days/120 days being added to the start day number (or subtracted from the finishing day number) to monitor progress.

Something that I learned (in the UK) is that there are roughly 200 working days in a year (allowing for weekends, bank holidays and annual holidays).

ian16th
6th Apr 2018, 15:32
Another thing they used was 'day of the year'

This was used on early computer Operating Systems as it reduced the day & month to 3 digits.

This saved expensive storage.

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Apr 2018, 16:39
Radeng, in my sector of the pharmaceutical industry we must write the date on all our documentation in the format ddmmmyy (e.g. 06Apr18), to avoid that day/month confusion with our US division.
Even better is some variant on ISO format, 2018-04-06, which is not only completely unambiguous but also sorts in date order.

reynoldsno1
7th Apr 2018, 00:41
When living in the US, we took a domestic flight from the local airport and were asked for photo ID. We had not brought our passports but I had an MI driver's licence. No problem. mrsr1 did not have a licence, but did have a Sam's Club card with her photo. No problem ...

Loose rivets
7th Apr 2018, 23:40
Memories that keep popping back. I had my skipper's ID thingie done at NWI and upon inspection the photo, which had reached the encapsulation and issue phase, was an amalgam of both myself and a charming lady captain colleague.

I'd imagine the cubic foot camera used Polaroid technology as the cards came out almost right away. I suppose the fault was entirely mechanical as there was no data generated photography back then.

I asked to keep the somewhat odd picture since I rather liked the flowing auburn hair but that was met with a firm, no. I wished afterwards I'd not mentioned it and just feigned astonishment if it had been picked up, though I can imagine being stuck somewhere furrin' so perhaps just as well I didn't.

Pontius Navigator
8th Apr 2018, 06:58
Absolutely spot on - what I have been saying is that having a photo ID is extremely useful and actually makes certain things much easier,that is really an advantage at times.
I really do not give a fekk about what the government thinks LOL

To get my photo ID bus pass I need to send a copy of my passport or driving licence. As my driving licence had my dob and address why not use that for a bus pass?

Pontius Navigator
8th Apr 2018, 07:15
dressed in a track suit like the boys, was asked if she was over 18 when she ordered an alcoholic drink. Suffice to say, she did not feel insulted.
Snap, we had a visit by a number of pupils that had been to the Space Academy; they wore their flight suits. One turned out to be the deputy head of the academy; she was 42.

Blacksheep
8th Apr 2018, 09:59
I have absolutely no problem with having a photo ID.
Since leaving school I had to carry an RAF Form 1250 photo ID at all times for the first 14 years. For another 27 years I carried a Brunei National ID Card - and you needed to show it to do any official business like taxing your car, buying a phone or collecting your mail from the post office. For most of my working life I have had to wear a photo ID Badge while going about my duties.

What is this British reluctance to carrying identification documents? In the end, it is the only way to protect ourselves from those who ought not to be here.

Gertrude the Wombat
8th Apr 2018, 10:11
What is this British reluctance to carrying identification documents?
We don't do being a police state. We believe that we are free to wander around the streets minding our own business without risking being arrested for not having the right paperwork with us (as happened to me in a police state, France).
In the end, it is the only way to protect ourselves from those who ought not to be here.
If someone ought not to be somewhere, that's fair enough - eg if you're inside a secure zone which you need ID to enter then clearly if you're caught without ID you've got some explaining to do[#]. We don't mind carrying and being asked for ID in those circumstances.

On the other hand if someone is in my house uninvited at 3am then clearly they "ought not to be here", but I don't see how whether or not they're carrying ID "protects" me from them.

[#] Which in my case at some military establishment once was "yes I know I've got an 'accompanied only' badge, but when I asked someone where the loo was they said 'through that door', and didn't tell me 'that door' took me outside the security zone and I wouldn't be able to get back in". Guard called my host and gave him, not me, a bollocking, and I was re-admitted.

surely not
8th Apr 2018, 13:16
For those who say 'If you are living by the laws then there is no worry about having an ID Card', that assumes that the current laws and ideals remain. However there are some extremes, left and right, who are gaining in popularity and they would certainly misuse any ID system, and many who are law abiding today could be criminalised tomorrow if these groups were to succeed in gaining power.

That said, I am in favour of National ID as I believe it offers more benefits than disbenefits

oldchina
9th Apr 2018, 18:33
Gertrude: "as happened to me in a police state, France"

I remember as a small kid my parents having a small celebration to destroy their wartime ID cards. "We only had them because of Hitler. Now he's gone they're gone".

This subject tells you all you need to know about the relationship between citizens and the state. If Brits and Americans have the same reluctance, the origin is there.

Gertrude: in France the ID card is not compulsory, but the state is at the center of everyone's lives. In some EU countries it is compulsory. If so, leave soon.

oldchina
9th Apr 2018, 18:49
Gertrude:
In the UK a naked cyclist could well be stopped to cover up.
On the Continent he'd be stopped for not carrying his "papiers".
Where to put them?

ExSp33db1rd
10th Apr 2018, 02:18
ID cards and the like are only worth it if they are treated seriously, when we first got ours in the airline, one of our F/O's replaced his photo with one of his dog. He was never challenged, the fact that he had a plastic thing clipped to his shirt was all that was ever checked.

Elsewhere I've related the problems I am having getting a Singapore bank to alter my "telephone banking profile" to reflect my present NZ passport number when I attempt to telephone them and they ask for "positive identification" by way of my referring to my ancient, UK passport long since expired and not even relevant today, but that was the one, and the number, that they recorded 35 years ago when I opened the account. They refuse to accept officially notarised copies of my current passport, unless I also get "My Country's Diplomatic Dept." in Singapore to affirm that it is indeed a valid NZ passport. No problem, I'll just remember the old number as if it is a personal PiN forever, after all genuine money launderers have no problem, so why should I worry ?

World's Gone Mad.

Sultan Ismail
10th Apr 2018, 02:56
International travel leaves an audit trail of Entry/Exit stamps and Visa labels in your passport, each entry being a verification of your identity.
Your presence at a bank counter with said passport proves your identity and its authenticity.
Easily said, I had a similar experience to Sp33dbird above, in my case 2 weeks ago in Johannesburg.

Krystal n chips
10th Apr 2018, 03:10
To get my photo ID bus pass I need to send a copy of my passport or driving licence. As my driving licence had my dob and address why not use that for a bus pass?

Ah, technology is the answer.

When you plonk your bus pass on the reader, it is encoded to be read as such.

Your driving licence does not have this as a feature.....for fairly, erm, obvious reasons perhaps.

You do seem to be a bit late in the day to be applying for one however.

I applied as soon as I was eligible .....and have saved a fortune as a result.

I enjoy traveling for free.

ZFT
10th Apr 2018, 03:23
International travel leaves an audit trail of Entry/Exit stamps and Visa labels in your passport, each entry being a verification of your identity.
Your presence at a bank counter with said passport proves your identity and its authenticity.
Easily said, I had a similar experience to Sp33dbird above, in my case 2 weeks ago in Johannesburg.

Interesting. Same issue in Bangkok last week with a long replaced UK Passport. Strange I could still recall the number and the bank was happy. Obsolutely no interest in my current passport I had with me.

llondel
10th Apr 2018, 04:08
I think there are three levels to photo ID and I'm only comfortable with the first.

1. Having something official you can show that gives the person checking it reasonable confidence that (1) you're the person whose picture appears on the ID and (2) that it's genuine. Often used when performing a financial transaction of high-enough value and occasionally for entry to places where you know in advance that you need to bring it.

2. Being required to carry and show official ID on demand.

3. as 2, but having every use of the official ID recorded in a big central database.

The UK scheme that got abolished was in category 3, way over the top and they'd have had their hands full dealing with those of us who were prepared to refuse to carry it. 2 is what you seem to get in some parts of the world, and often as a traveller you're required to carry ID (usually your passport) with you. 1 is what they seem to have in the US (unless you're not a citizen, in which case 2 applies), where it's very low-key and not intrusive or tracking.

To me, it's not the ID itself but how it's used and tracked.

My UK driving licence is still a paper one, although if I move back I'll have to get a photo one unless I buy back my old house. I didn't see the point of having to pay them money every ten years when I had a bit of paper that would do just as well for no cost to me.

ExXB
10th Apr 2018, 07:59
llondel. In Switzerland we have your #1 and 2. However in over 35 years of being a resident I have never been demanded to show my official ID (other than crossing a border). The law requires that if I am asked to present it and do not then I must do so within 5 working days.

longer ron
10th Apr 2018, 08:34
We don't do being a police state. We believe that we are free to wander around the streets minding our own business without risking being arrested for not having the right paperwork with us (as happened to me in a police state, France).

[

Well you seem to have a problem with it LOL.
Just carrying ID does not make any country a police state LOL
As I posted previously - I have a photo driving licence because it occasionally makes my life easier :ok:
If you want to waste part of your life in a french police station - that is up to you - personally I would rather be out and about in the lovely countryside and having a few biere's/vino collapso's :cool:

longer ron
10th Apr 2018, 08:48
To get my photo ID bus pass I need to send a copy of my passport or driving licence. As my driving licence had my dob and address why not use that for a bus pass?

As KnC answered already PN - one has to plonk ones bus pass on top of the ticket machine until the wee light goes green - I also enjoy my free travel - although I do not use it very much.
So my photo licence + bus pass adds a couple of grammes to the total weight of my wallet - very onerous :)

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Apr 2018, 11:34
Well you seem to have a problem with it LOL.
Just carrying ID does not make any country a police state LOL
As I posted previously - I have a photo driving licence because it occasionally makes my life easier :ok:
If you want to waste part of your life in a french police station - that is up to you - personally I would rather be out and about in the lovely countryside and having a few biere's/vino collapso's :cool:
To me a passport is for passing through ports - y'know, the clue's in the name, like.

It's not something I take to the beach. What do you do with it on the beach? Leave it in a pile of clothes whilst you go swimming, so that someone can nick it? Leave it in your car out of sight half a mile away so that someone can nick it? I did the obviously sensible thing, seeing as I wasn't going to pass through any ports that day, and left it locked in the house.

longer ron
10th Apr 2018, 11:53
To me a passport is for passing through ports - y'know, the clue's in the name, like.

It's not something I take to the beach. What do you do with it on the beach? Leave it in a pile of clothes whilst you go swimming, so that someone can nick it? Leave it in your car out of sight half a mile away so that someone can nick it? I did the obviously sensible thing, seeing as I wasn't going to pass through any ports that day, and left it locked in the house.

Actually I have a little waterproof box which I put my car keys and small wallet in - it ties securely into my swim shorts pocket.
But just going to the beach was not really the general gist of your original post,you seemed to be proud of being taken into the gendarmerie and proud not to have your passport with you - you obviously have a 'thing' about photo ID whereas I use it to make my life simpler :)

Highway1
10th Apr 2018, 13:00
Of course its not just Photo Identity, you have to have the correct type of Photo identity.

I was collecting an item I had bought online from a Best Buy store in Arizona. So they wanted photo ID: Driving Licence? - not acceptable, not issued in the US. Mexican residency card? - not acceptable, not issued in the US. Passport? - not acceptable, not issued in the US..... Now I am running out of photo ID's and patience (given that I had already paid for the item and was simply collecting it) so out of desperation tried the US Visa page in the passport - success!! :ugh:

ExXB
10th Apr 2018, 13:47
Highway1. The US is different. I once tried to pay with a Canadian $20 bill. Clerk looked at it, stamped it and started to fill in my ID. He thought it was a cheque (check). When I tried to explain it became obvious that he had no idea other countries use different currencies.

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Apr 2018, 17:40
Actually I have a little waterproof box which I put my car keys and small wallet in - it ties securely into my swim shorts pocket.
But just going to the beach was not really the general gist of your original post,you seemed to be proud of being taken into the gendarmerie and proud not to have your passport with you - you obviously have a 'thing' about photo ID whereas I use it to make my life simpler :)
On that occasion I very deliberately didn't have my passport with me because I was going to the beach. On other occasions abroad whether I have my passport on me is a bit random; I did once when asked for it by an Italian policeman, but I can't remember the reason I had it in my pocket that day. I certainly haven't always had it on me when walking across international boarders in Europe, as I haven't always known when leaving the house in the morning that I'd be wanting to walk across a border ("where's the nearest pub?" - "just over there").

ExSp33db1rd
11th Apr 2018, 00:32
tried the US Visa page in the passport - success!!

Holiday in the USA, received documents from my lawyer in NZ requiring "Notarising". (sale of property being completed in my absence ) Walked into premises advertising the presence of a "Notary Public". Will you notarise my signing of this doc. requiring my signature in your presence. Indian, (Asian national, not Red ) demanded ID, showed my NZ driving licence which is always in my wallet regardless. Head wobbled, no good, need proof that you are legally entitled to be in the USA. Why, what difference does it make, I'm proving that the person named in the documents is me, with photo I.D. Cannot, didn't.

Considered flying to Mexico and walking across the border, then trying again, finally returned next day with Passport containing entry stamp. WTF ?