View Full Version : Rocketman offers to de-rocket the Korean peninsular
NutLoose
8th Mar 2018, 23:35
And meet Trump
https://news.sky.com/story/live-south-koreas-announcement-on-north-korea-11281879
The North is open to "frank" talks with the US on denuclearisation and would suspend missile and nuclear tests while dialogue was under way, Chung Eui Yong said after returning from a meeting in Pyongyang with Mr Kim.thoughts?
I feel it's because his regime would be bust by the end of the year and he knows it, if he does not squirm out of it, his days may be numbered, one should imagine a lot of the countries wealth is used to keep those folks supporting his regime happy, and without it they will become his problem. Dictators rely on others to keep them there by fear and reward.
NutLoose
9th Mar 2018, 02:29
Kim Jong Un to meet Trump by May (https://news.sky.com/story/live-south-koreas-announcement-on-north-korea-11281879)
https://news.sky.com/story/live-south-koreas-announcement-on-north-korea-11281879
Do you think she is holding his hand for this meeting ;)
West Coast
9th Mar 2018, 03:42
I’ll be curious what Fat Wuns security demands are for denuking along with what level of verification he’ll accept. Hard to imagine IAEA caravans freely moving through the country iso nuke sites.
Then again, hard to imagine anything other than the current stalemate continuing.
Heathrow Harry
9th Mar 2018, 07:03
"And meet Trump"
Awful idea - he'd run rings round Trump in a face to face negotiation - he'd give Trump some BIG headlines and the small print would probably award NK California.............
Fareastdriver
9th Mar 2018, 08:36
he'd run rings round Trump in a face to face negotiation
He hasn't done very well so far.
I guess we just have to go along with Churchill. "Jaw-Jaw is better than War-War"
NutLoose
9th Mar 2018, 09:27
https://www.mediaite.com/online/north-korea-is-reportedly-running-out-of-money-thanks-to-pricey-missile-tests/
Kim Jong-un has reportedly squandered his inheritance on nuclear testing and has entered his nation in the Winter Olympic Games to fix its failing economy (http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/kim-jongun-has-blown-family-cash-on-missile-tests-and-has-no-money-left-to-run-north-korea/news-story/18e6ea09826ba58436d8948eb704f0c8)
https://www.axios.com/north-korea-running-out-of-money-report-1517000914-6548c7b1-777f-40fa-b9dc-da371a9e7b30.html
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/korea/fund-01252018143318.html
Heathrow Harry
9th Mar 2018, 09:32
He hasn't done very well so far.
Hmmm - well most of the world see that he has built up his nuclear capacity, developed a missile capability while Trump has blustered away . Then he turns sweet, gets his boys and girls into the Winter Olympics.
Now he's got talks with the S Koreans and no doubt will agree to all sorts of future changes in return for concessions and money up front
They fall for it every time......................
By the time it all goes sour Trump will have moved on and he can play the same record all over again - they've been doing it for 50 years
hoodie
9th Mar 2018, 11:07
Hmmm - well most of the world see that he has built up his nuclear capacity, developed a missile capability while Trump has blustered away.
Really? He did all that in a year? It's entirely down to Trump since his Inauguration, nothing whatsoever to do with previous Administrations?
No, I think most of the World see that something different is happening under this Administration.
Maybe - just maybe - the caricature of Trump we get fed from the media isn't entirely accurate after all.
NutLoose
9th Mar 2018, 11:09
You mean he is worse???
hoodie
9th Mar 2018, 11:15
I mean that something significantly positive has happened under this Administration that hasn't under his predecessors. Why is that? Do you think it's all down to a sole initiative from Pyongyang?
Sure Trump's personality leaves much to be desired. He's a buffoon, but are we sure he's also an idiot?
beardy
9th Mar 2018, 12:26
Who is visiting whom?
Does it matter, well only if you want to look good to your people.
Lyneham Lad
9th Mar 2018, 12:35
Who is visiting whom?
Does it matter, well only if you want to look good to your people.
Typically such meetings take place in a neutral venue/country - but will NK leadership's paranoia rule that out? Panmunjom seems most likely.
Heathrow Harry
9th Mar 2018, 12:41
I think NK is a past master at playing this game
Does anyone think they're going to give up their nukes and rockets - no - they'll offer to "stop testing" and will open up a bit ... until teh next time
I don't care if it's Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama or Trump - none of them are going to invade N Korea. We're totally dependent on the Chinese if we want regime change
Simplythebeast
9th Mar 2018, 12:59
Mmmmmmmm if sanctions work so succesfully for Trump why hasnt he yet sanctioned Russia. Could Putin perhaps have a hand in persuading our North Korean friend to meet as a favour to his friend Donny to deflect all the ****storm he is presently enduring?
Just putting that in there.
I agree with HH. Fat Un is playing a game. Suggestion to have face-to-face talks with Trump could be a win-win strategy (at least in front of his NK people). If Trump agrees (can hardly believe that but things happen), then Rocketman could be considered by many as a cool and serious player, dealing/negotiating directly with POTUS.
If he is sent to ...., he would cry that "blood thursty imperialists reject his hand of friendship", etc. etc.
In reality, IMHO, he may indeed take a pause in tests (explosions and launches) while the industry will keep working.
NutLoose
9th Mar 2018, 13:47
And it would be a bad move to have the meeting on the peninsular as it would be seen as Trump cowing to Korea, instead of the other way around, rather like I thought Mays trip to the EU for the Brexit talks was, you're playing in their patch, not the other way round and that has a strong phycological effect.
I tend to agree, the little one is playing for time and monies, the same as the Olympic participation was. He might be at an impass in his rocket development, what better time to play the "good guy" on the world stage while research carries on, with the chance he may get some sanctions lifted or aid.
bafanguy
9th Mar 2018, 14:03
I agree with HH. Fat Un is playing a game.
In reality, IMHO, he may indeed take a pause in tests (explosions and launches) while the industry will keep working.
Yep:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=055wFyO6gag
West Coast
9th Mar 2018, 14:09
I think NK is a past master at playing this game
Not once have you posited that the reason that the sanctions, most recent of which are designed to rattle the base of supporters that keeps him in power is working. The sanctions also layered, new ones having started this week.
As far as a game, of course it’s a game, all nations play games, some willingly, others are forced or coerced.
I think NK is a past master at playing this game
I’ve noticed a pattern on the pprune, a willingness, almost a desire to attribute qualities of greatness to thugs and rogue nations as they maneuver politically, the same to strip away any qualities from western governments. Over the years I’ve seen Saddam, Gaddafi and Mugabe all given excessive adulation...
You have exemplified that pattern here HH, in just two short postings.
Buster11
9th Mar 2018, 16:32
Trump and Kim Jong Un in a face to face discussion? What could possibly go wrong...?
As someone said on the radio earlier today - Fathead and Fatun together, what a pairing:D
Simplythebeast
9th Mar 2018, 16:46
Theey could discuss hairstyles, perhaps swap stylists for a day.
Rick777
9th Mar 2018, 17:41
Let's just hope Trump doesn't wind up sharing nuclear technology with Kim.
Good Vibs
9th Mar 2018, 20:35
Perhaps Pres Trump can be given a huge North Korean Military Parade.
I'am sure he will enjoy such a thing.
NutLoose
9th Mar 2018, 20:45
Kim Jong Un will probably end up with a new golf course he didn't want. I would imagine having Trump as your discussion partner is rather like having the Johova Witnesses on the doorstep, you will do anything to get shot of them.
Though I would rather have Trump as a discussion partner any day over a megalomaniac cold bloodied murdering scum bag such as Kim Jong un, one can only hope his days are numbered.
..
Tankertrashnav
9th Mar 2018, 21:18
I've always thought that "peninsular" was the adjective from "peninsula", as in "Peninsular and Oriental", but I'm always seeing it used as a noun, (most recently by the OP).
Am I wrong?
Lonewolf_50
9th Mar 2018, 23:02
If we might divert this conversation to military aviation somewhat, how does this conversation's happening influence pilots, aircrew, and mechanics (etc) .. fewer deployments?
Fewer carriers or other plane carrying ships deployed to one sector of the Pacific?
Anyone?
NutLoose
9th Mar 2018, 23:07
I think it is relevant, especially to those services stationed in the South.
Captain Dart
10th Mar 2018, 03:50
Duty Pedant here. Tank is correct. ‘Peninsular’ would relate to something to do with a peninsula, as in Peninsular Malaysia as opposed to Sarawak, the Malaysian state on Borneo.
Buster Hyman
10th Mar 2018, 04:08
If he goes, he should only go for his twitter photo op & hand over all the grown up discussions to the South Koreans. Then he should pop in to China & seek assurances from them that whatever the North & South agree to, they will keep the North in line & the US will keep the South in line.
Then get him home ASAP before he F@#*! it up!
Heathrow Harry
10th Mar 2018, 12:02
If Trump has any sense (!!!!) he'll ask the Chinese to run the meeting and hold it in Beijing
Heathrow Harry
30th Mar 2018, 09:07
So our fat friend has used his RailCard and gone to see his "fraternal neighbours" at last..........
At least he had the grace to "take notes" when Pooh Bear spoke to him
I suspect the message was "Ok son - so far you're getting away with it but don't do anything to upset Trump when you meet him..."
Basil
30th Mar 2018, 15:39
Over the years I’ve seen Saddam, Gaddafi and Mugabe all given excessive adulation...
Nevertheless, the ME would be a safer place with Saddam still running Iraq.
Basil
30th Mar 2018, 21:01
I've always thought that "peninsular" was the adjective from "peninsula", as in "Peninsular and Oriental", but I'm always seeing it used as a noun, (most recently by the OP).
Am I wrong?
No, you are perfectly correct.
Peninsula is the noun for a bit of land which sticks out.
Peninsular is the adjective describing such a protuberance.
Frequently misunderstood.
I blame the teachers.
My wife, a primary school teacher, coached her colleagues in that sort of thing, esp the use of the apostrophe.
Bengo
30th Mar 2018, 21:08
Nevertheless, the ME would be a safer place with Saddam still running Iraq.
Safer? Maybe. Iran has not changed direction much.
Less unstable? Possibly.
N
Heathrow Harry
31st Mar 2018, 07:27
and a couple of million of people still alive and several Trillion dollars unwasted as well
I’ll second that West Coast.
Fareastdriver
31st Mar 2018, 07:47
There must be few ship owners who thought that they were going to make a quick buck who are a bit worried.
North Korea sanctions: UN blacklists shipping firms - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-43601040)
Heathrow Harry
31st Mar 2018, 09:25
Doubt it - shipping companies are as slippery as eels - lots of small, family owned outfits, many totally private, flags of convenience, buy/sell/lease/loan vessels between companies all the time. Change names, crews, paperwork. Use mixed nationality crews drawn from all corners of the globe with Captains who have a "varied" past. The money isn't attached to the ship or the shipment - it's paid through places like Switzerland, London and other shady spots where they are expert at covering tracks
You can occasionally nail a single ship/ crew but trying to get to the beneficial owners .... unlikely
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kim-s-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed-say-scientists-lsh63sxv0
Kim’s nuclear test site has collapsed, say scientists
North Korea’s nuclear test site is believed to have collapsed, rendering the secret base unusable and potentially explaining Kim Jong-un’s newfound willingness to discuss ending his weapons programme.
At least five of the six nuclear tests carried out over the past 12 years were at Punggye-ri, in the northeast of the country, at a site carved out of the 7,200ft Mount Mantap. Scientists who have studied seismic data from the region believe that part of the mountain collapsed as a result of the most recent test, on September 3. It had a yield of 250 kilotons, almost 17 times that of the Hiroshima bomb, and caused a 6.3-magnitude earthquake......
Wen Lianxing, a seismology professor at Stony Brook University in New York, and head of the three-strong team that studied the seismic data from Mount Mantap, said the mountain collapse meant that the site could no longer be used for nuclear tests. “Given the history of the nuclear tests North Korea performed beneath this mountain, a nuclear test of a similar yield would produce collapses in an even larger scale, creating an environmental catastrophe,” he said. “Any further disturbance from a future test could generate earthquakes that may be damaging by their own force or crack the nuclear test sites of the past or the present.”
Mr Wen collaborated with two researchers from the University of Science and Technology of China, in Hefei, eastern China. A second study, conducted by six scientists from China, the Czech Republic and Greece, sought to explain the delayed shock that occurred after the September blast.
“According to our model, the explosion created a cavity and a damaged ‘chimney’ of rocks above it,” they wrote in the journal Geophysical Research Letters. “The aftershock was neither a secondary explosion nor a triggered tectonic earthquake. It occurred due to a process . . . that is, a rock collapse, or compaction, for the first time documented in North Korea’s test site.”
Chinese scientists monitored the aftermath of North Korea’s sixth nuclear test closely for any signs of radioactive leaks. Wang Naiyan, a former chairman of the China Nuclear Society and senior researcher on China’s nuclear weapons programme, told South China Morning Post that he had concerns over the mountain’s geological integrity. Another test might cause the entire mountain to cave in on itself, he said, exposing a hole from which radiation could escape and drift across the region, including China. “We call it ‘taking the roof off’,” said Mr Wang. “If the mountain collapses and the hole is exposed, it will let out many bad things.”
Blacksheep
27th Apr 2018, 12:36
Personally, I don't believe Trump, Obama or anyone else has anything to do with Kim Jong Un's actions. He has been pursuing his own plan ever since he came to power - and possibly even before then.
North Korea has been afraid of the threatening outside world ever since the cease fire.was signed. He has taken steps to first secure his position, then establish nuclear capability and finally develop a delivery system. The objective was to make himself fireproof and he is now fireproof. Having established nuclear invulnerability, he is now in a position to open up friendly discussions with South Korea. Normalisation of relations with South Korea then removes the need for a US presence in that country. That is his end game - if South Korea asks the US to leave, he will have removed the threat on his borders and enabled him to normalise his own economy and international trade relationships. He's a very smart operator and in the interests of world peace, I wish him every success.
pr00ne
27th Apr 2018, 17:07
Blacksheep,
You sound like Lord Halifax. In the interests of the people of North Korea I wish him Gonorrhea...
fltlt
27th Apr 2018, 21:41
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kim-s-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed-say-scientists-lsh63sxv0
Kim’s nuclear test site has collapsed, say scientists
North Korea’s nuclear test site is believed to have collapsed, rendering the secret base unusable and potentially explaining Kim Jong-un’s newfound willingness to discuss ending his weapons programme.
At least five of the six nuclear tests carried out over the past 12 years were at Punggye-ri, in the northeast of the country, at a site carved out of the 7,200ft Mount Mantap. Scientists who have studied seismic data from the region believe that part of the mountain collapsed as a result of the most recent test, on September 3. It had a yield of 250 kilotons, almost 17 times that of the Hiroshima bomb, and caused a 6.3-magnitude earthquake......
Wen Lianxing, a seismology professor at Stony Brook University in New York, and head of the three-strong team that studied the seismic data from Mount Mantap, said the mountain collapse meant that the site could no longer be used for nuclear tests. “Given the history of the nuclear tests North Korea performed beneath this mountain, a nuclear test of a similar yield would produce collapses in an even larger scale, creating an environmental catastrophe,” he said. “Any further disturbance from a future test could generate earthquakes that may be damaging by their own force or crack the nuclear test sites of the past or the present.”
Mr Wen collaborated with two researchers from the University of Science and Technology of China, in Hefei, eastern China. A second study, conducted by six scientists from China, the Czech Republic and Greece, sought to explain the delayed shock that occurred after the September blast.
“According to our model, the explosion created a cavity and a damaged ‘chimney’ of rocks above it,” they wrote in the journal Geophysical Research Letters. “The aftershock was neither a secondary explosion nor a triggered tectonic earthquake. It occurred due to a process . . . that is, a rock collapse, or compaction, for the first time documented in North Korea’s test site.”
Chinese scientists monitored the aftermath of North Korea’s sixth nuclear test closely for any signs of radioactive leaks. Wang Naiyan, a former chairman of the China Nuclear Society and senior researcher on China’s nuclear weapons programme, told South China Morning Post that he had concerns over the mountain’s geological integrity. Another test might cause the entire mountain to cave in on itself, he said, exposing a hole from which radiation could escape and drift across the region, including China. “We call it ‘taking the roof off’,” said Mr Wang. “If the mountain collapses and the hole is exposed, it will let out many bad things.”
Interesting article on emissions from N. Korea:
SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids (http://spaceweather.com/)
tdracer
28th Apr 2018, 01:19
I'm not a Trump fan (I could best be described as a Trump agnostic - not a fan but appreciate some of the things he's done). I also remain skeptical that the young phat one really intends to make peace and play nice.
But, it would certainly be wonderful if Trump actually pulled this off. Plus I'd rather enjoy watching all the Trump hater's heads explode in the aftermath :E
West Coast
28th Apr 2018, 04:43
I could best be described as a Trump agnostic
Been struggling to describe where I’m at in the current political atmosphere, I may need to borrow your phrasing.
Kerosene Kraut
28th Apr 2018, 09:58
Good to meet and everything, congrats. But I don't see that much of a change coming. Why did the Kims get their own nukes? As their family life insurance against China it seems. Does this need still exist? Yes. So it might just be the sanctions biting the North a bit too much now and then it will be back to business again.
Fareastdriver
28th Apr 2018, 11:33
Why did the Kims get their own nukes? As their family life insurance against China it seems.
I think that China has been quite happy with the conditions of the North Koreans.
'Look what you would have been like if we hadn't opened up China.'
Heathrow Harry
29th Apr 2018, 08:15
"Why did the Kims get their own nukes? As their family life insurance against China it seems. Does this need still exist? Yes. "
Not China - the USA - once the USA got into regime change post Cold War Family Kim reckoned they'd be near the top of the list - to some extent they kept their heads down and didn't threaten the US or US interests in the way Qaddafi, Afghanistan, Iran and Saddam did -no clear link to terrorists, no invasions etc - which bought them time to get their programme underway.
Right now they have bombs and missiles - not a lot but enough. They can afford to take a breather while their designers work on Generation 2. If the US pulls the Iranian deal they'll just turn to the world and say " we have to keep them because the US can't be trusted long-term - as Qaddafi discovered"
TBH Young Kim is playing his hand very very well................
Fareastdriver
29th Apr 2018, 08:40
didn't threaten the US or US interests
They have been threatening the USA with total destruction for the last decade. They cannot threaten US interest because they have nothing to threaten them with.
Heathrow Harry
29th Apr 2018, 13:34
They have been threatening the USA with total destruction for the last decade. They cannot threaten US interest because they have nothing to threaten them with.
Indeed - and precisely
They only started to mouth off big time once they had a tested a bomb in 2006, before that they threatened regional warfare but were careful not to threaten US interests directly
Now they have bombs and a third rate missile system - we all know on here that that does not a real strike force make but it sure as hell makes headlines in places like Seattle.......... after all it only takes one if they happen to drop it on you.....