PA Spine Med Discharge?

[Poorly PA]

Gents, (and Ladies)

Having been a lurking voyeur since Beagle was still bashing the circuit I am after a bit of advice.

I am a Serving PA Flt Lt and have recently received a permanent medical downgrade. I will soon be before an employment board to see which, if any ground trades will be offered. Not wanting to jump the gun on that I am pretty sure I will take the QR1421 option of receiving a Medical Discharge. I am a member and have spoken with the Forces Pension Society, they are very helpful but have never seen any Tables which are used to calculate a Medical Pension for a PA Officer. Simply using a representative rank such as Wg Cdr or Gp Capt, which receives a similar salary would not work, and they believe, as is the case with Service Doctors that possibly taking an Admin Discharge will be the best way to go. Because the Med Pension will have to be worked out on my rank.... and not my salary :eek:

So while I chase all the formal avenues, ie Handbrake house and Glasgow I was wondering if any members here have been Med Discharged as Serving PA, and if so what happened on the pension front?

[PARALLEL TRACK]

Gents, (and Ladies)

Having been a lurking voyeur since Beagle was still bashing the circuit I am after a bit of advice.

I am a Serving PA Flt Lt and have recently received a permanent medical downgrade. I will soon be before an employment board to see which, if any ground trades will be offered. Not wanting to jump the gun on that I am pretty sure I will take the QR1421 option of receiving a Medical Discharge. I am a member and have spoken with the Forces Pension Society, they are very helpful but have never seen any Tables which are used to calculate a Medical Pension for a PA Officer. Simply using a representative rank such as Wg Cdr or Gp Capt, which receives a similar salary would not work, and they believe, as is the case with Service Doctors that possibly taking an Admin Discharge will be the best way to go. Because the Med Pension will have to be worked out on my rank.... and not my salary :eek:

So while I chase all the formal avenues, ie Handbrake house and Glasgow I was wondering if any members here have been Med Discharged as Serving PA, and if so what happened on the pension front?

Poorly PA

I will PM you

Parallel Track

[PARALLEL TRACK]

Poorly PA

I will PM you

Parallel Track

The system says I am unable to PM because of your settings.

[Poorly PA]

Hi PT,
I've tried messaging u direct... it says the same to me ie I can't pm you...told you I was a newbie at this posting m'larky!! Any suggestions?

[BruisedCrab]

How about setting up a throwaway email address and posting it here until you get in contact, then edit to delete the email.

[India Four Two]

PARALLEL TRACK,

It looks like you can send an email via PPRuNe to Poorly PA.

[Poorly PA]

Bruised,

Brilliant!!

[email protected]

Cheers!!

[BruisedCrab]

Pleasure and good luck. Been there but not as PA.

[Basil]

I've no idea what 'PA Spine' Med Discharge means but, if it's any help and they are offering ground trade training, you could do worse than ATC.
Looking ahead, civilian ATCOs are well paid and I found it a pleasant RAF ground tour.

[Chris Kebab]

Basil - PA is Professional Aviator; would have been called Spec Aircrew in your day.

[Basil]

Thanks, Chris. Do recollect thinking that, if I'd been offered Specialist Aircrew, I'd have stayed in.
Probably have been a bad decision.

[PARALLEL TRACK]

Still unable to pm using the email address via pprune!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Poorly PA]

PT,

As bruised says a temporary email for me is [email protected] I would be very grateful if you could email using your normal civvy account, direct to that.

Many thanks.

[PARALLEL TRACK]

Poorly PA

Tried a few things but none work thus far. I am going to have to wait until the PMs work as I am still in the 'system' when it comes to Med Discharge. I need to stay below the radar horizon for now. Good luck until we can connect using our call signs.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Parallel - set up a similarly anonymous yahoo/Gmail account and email him from there. PM's here are notoriously finnicky

[BobbyJordan]

Would be interested to hear what happened eventually with your Med Discharge and subsequent award...... My turn now!

[High Average]

I would be interested too. I am NCA on PAS and facing a med discharge this year. Tried the Pension Society route but as I cover 75/05 and 15 pension schemes it all got a bit confusing for me.....

[Just This Once...]

PMs to you both...

[Sandy Parts]

Suspect this issue will raise its head far more often with re-joiners and the new retirement age of 60. Not sure the RAF has yet taken the extra 5 years into account when it comes to fitness/medical standards. Might be useful to others to post any results here (no names no pack drill etc).... - asking for a friend - I'm still well (enough) so far....

[Poorly PA]

Have PM'd HA and BJ.

Just as an update and please forgive the lack of technical knowledge, I am sure some admin guru will be able to add to what I put here.

Medical discharge pensions are worked out from a set of Tables, and are slightly different (marginally better) than you would get as far as the standard Pension on departure, I'm not talking about tax status or index linked here, just the amount. The only problem with that system for PA Spine individuals is that there are no tables that cover the PA Spine, meaning when you ask the Forces Pension Society for help they can only work out your length of service and rank. This means with 30 years service as a Flt Lt you get a very different figure to 30 years Flt Lt and near top rate PA. However the good news was that after a significant amount of head scratching at High Wycombe and Glasgow my pension was awarded at the rate it would have been if I was leaving on normal grounds, with a few minor medical benefits as well.

Hope that is of some help to someone.

[Sandy Parts]

Cheers PoorlyPA - hopefully someone will note your case and update the relevant directives to make it so for all future PA Med Dischargees (I have my doubts on that sadly).
I know there are a LOT more PA these days since NCA were admitted to the spine so as time progresses this will certainly affect a greater number of people.

[High Average]

So having read about the problems encountered by others, I emailed the JPAC to request a medical discharge pension forecast as I am on PAS. I explained about the issues that others have experienced and how I hoped that an early forecast might prevent any issues when my med discharge is confirmed. To my surprise the JPAC have agreed to give me an early pension forecast working on an estimated discharge date and Tier 1 benefits. I also sent them a forecast obtained from the standard online pension calculator, as any med pension forecast should be slightly better than one for a standard exit. If the med pension forecast is less than the standard pension forecast, then I would hope that some alarm bells start ringing in the JPAC. Or am I expecting too much from them??!!

I'll update you all once the med pension forecast arrives in the post

[Just This Once...]

High Average Good luck!

[k3k3]

This may be of interest, taken from page 6 of the HMRC Self Assessment Guide:

UK pensions, annuities and other state benefits received Not all benefits are taxable. Do not include the following in boxes 8 to 13: • Attendance Allowance, lump sum Bereavement Support Payment or Personal Independence Payments • State Pension Credit, Working Tax Credit, Child Tax Credit or Universal Credit • additions to State Pensions or benefits for dependent children • income-related Employment and Support Allowance, Jobfinder’s Grant or Employment Zone payments • Maternity Allowance • War Widow’s Pension and some pensions paid to other forces dependants if the death in service was before 6 April 2005 • pensions and other payments for disability, injury or illness due to military service • some beneficiaries’ pensions where the member

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/975554/sa150-notes-2021.pdf

[teeteringhead]

Good spot k3k3

I had some old (attributable) injuries finally catch up with me a couple years ago. Long story short finished up assessed as 20% disabled, with a (very) small War Pension for my (minimal) troubles.

Delighted to discover that the taxman didn't get any of it! More importantly (and probably worth a bit more) I get a free Oyster card for use in London and the SE (thanks to BoJo when he was Mayor) which might be useful if you ever get to or near the Smoke.

[Mogwi]

Good spot k3k3

I had some old (attributable) injuries finally catch up with me a couple years ago. Long story short finished up assessed as 20% disabled, with a (very) small War Pension for my (minimal) troubles.

Delighted to discover that the taxman didn't get any of it! More importantly (and probably worth a bit more) I get a free Oyster card for use in London and the SE (thanks to BoJo when he was Mayor) which might be useful if you ever get to or near the Smoke.

yes, I managed to accumulate three attributable injuries and the subsequent tax-free income covers Mrs Mog's gin bill nicely. The Lobster card is certainly very useful on my sojourns up to the great Smoke.

[teeteringhead]

subsequent tax-free income covers Mrs Mog's gin bill nicely

Blimey Mog, she's doing well.

My "War Pension" equates to just over one bottle of Sipsmith VJOP per week, or (to be less pretentious) two bottles of Tanqueray Export!

Chin chin mate. (and I thought I was the only person to call it a Lobster card.....)

[ScotchEggLoophole]

I asked for an ill health forecast today, well before a med board, and received a resounding no - and no discussion despite my pleas about my progressive disease that will see me cast out in due course. Going up the chain now to make a nuisance. I don't understand why they cannot give a caveated estimate of Tier 1/2/3 when someone is advised that they have a condition that is likely to lead to discharge. This can be a year or 18 months in advance, when people begin to try to recover from injury or gain treatment for illness, reduces the stress of the impending financial upheaval and most importantly, gives a chance of exploring for a mortgage. People are the most important asset we keep being told - unless they are broken/beaten/damned and no further use evidently. Then again, I'm no doubt naive.

[High Average]

ScotchEggLooophole - PM sent

Well this morning I received my Tier 1 Med Discharge Forecast for PAS as promised. As a reminder to you all, I asked the JPAC to give me a forecast based upon a Tier 1 exit on a fictional date in the future. I explained to them the problems that others on PAS had faced, and the JPAC kindly agreed to give me the forecast. There is only a slight financial advantage on the forecast compared to a normal exit, but that makes sense as I am 52.

Just a word of caution ref the standard MOD Pension calculator, MOD-PC.co.uk etc. I ran a forecast about 6 months ago, and another one today using the same info to check the figures. The 2 forecasts differed. The one from 6 months ago for some reason bumped up my "final pensionable salary" by one PAS level from the level which I declared was my "current salary". I gave an exit date which is before my next PAS increment, but the calculator wasn't that wise and bumped up the salary anyway. The latest calculation didn't make that mistake

[Just This Once...]

There is only a slight financial advantage on the forecast compared to a normal exit, but that makes sense as I am 52.

A Med Discharge should not be just a slight advantage. In effect they have taken away your PAS pension and replaced it with terms that a regular non-PAS / ground branch would receive on a similar medical discharge.

[High Average]

To be honest, I really don't understand it all. The figures in my Med Discharge illustration from the JPAC are almost the same as those I got from the Pension Society. I therefore trust them as I have no information or knowledge to say otherwise

[ScotchEggLoophole]

High Average - JSP 905 - surely you qualify for the Tier 1 lump which maxes out a 2x pensionable pay?

135.2 A member who receives a Tier 1 ill-health discharge after they have achieved at least 20 years pensionable service and reached the age of 40, will be eligible for their standard EDP (lump sum and monthly payments) or a Tier 1 lump sum (not both) as determined by the scheme manager. The policy intent is that the individual should receive the better of the two.

[Background Noise]

I asked for an ill health forecast today, well before a med board, and received a resounding no ....

It is sad to see such the decline in support available over the last 25 years. When I had a career (and life) threatening illness in 1995, someone from P5 (which I had never heard of) turned up at my bedside at Halton. He was able to tell me exactly what I would get if I was invalided out that day and all the details about it being tax free and index-linked. I asked whether it had to be 'attributable' and he said that it was up to them to prove that it wasn't rather than me to prove it was.

By the time I left, nearly 20 years later, manning had been instructed not to enter into pension advice, the PSF 'termination clerk' couldn't answer many of my questions and the JPAC were no better. I had to resort to the FPS to assist in filling in the PVR form. At my leaving medical, the doc gave me a letter outlining the benefits I should expect as a veteran in civilian medical care - but added 'but i wouldn't hold your breath!' I have yet to see any sign of the military covenant.