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GLIDER 90
6th Mar 2018, 10:07
Morning All

With being on the roads during the winter months, the amount of cyclists you see with no lights on during the dark are they on a death wish? I can remember one time when you would get stopped by the police because of no lights. They would soon start quibbling if they got hit!!

Glider 90

Wyler
6th Mar 2018, 11:06
You call them Cyclists. I call them Organ Donors.

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Mar 2018, 11:18
I can remember one time when you would get stopped by the police because of no lights.
In Cambridge the police do this for a few days each October, in the hope of educating some of the new students.

Mr Mac
6th Mar 2018, 11:50
Glider 90
Biggest problem we have around us is the cycling groups who come around 30+ all in there matching team shirts who do not go in single file, and hold up traffic with there large gaggle. They get well shirty if some one overtakes at speed as well. Indeed 12 months ago I witnessed a group harassing a driver in the centre of Ripponden which looked as though it was going to end in a brawl !
Not a good advert for their sport. Also with regards lights these same groups come out in early spring with there flashing strobe front lights, which is like an explosion of Paparazzi on a dark night. I wonder if anyone has suffered an epileptic fit from such yet,as it surly can only be time until they do.

Regards
Mr Mac

charliegolf
6th Mar 2018, 13:04
You call them Cyclists. I call them Organ Donors.

:D:D:D:D:D

yellowperil
6th Mar 2018, 13:08
Morning All

With being on the roads during the winter months, the amount of cyclists you see with no lights on during the dark are they on a death wish? I can remember one time when you would get stopped by the police because of no lights. They would soon start quibbling if they got hit!!

Glider 90

That would be a valid observation if lights actually prevented one from being hit. However, neither lights nor any amount of high-viz etc, do.

But hey, blame the victim right?!?

TURIN
6th Mar 2018, 13:37
That would be a valid observation if lights actually prevented one from being hit. However, neither lights nor any amount of high-viz etc, do.


Please explain.

MG23
6th Mar 2018, 13:45
Please explain.

Drivers should be psychic and guess that there's a cyclist up ahead on the wrong side of the road at night with no lights.

Cycling in the UK is just another branch of left-wing anti-car politics.

Carry0nLuggage
6th Mar 2018, 14:25
Cycling accidents
 Around 75% of fatal or serious cyclist accidents occur in urban areas
 Around half of cyclist fatalities occur on rural roads
 75% happen at, or near, a road junction
 80% occur in daylight
 80% of cyclist casualties are male
 10% of cyclists killed or injured are children
 Around three quarters of cyclists killed have major head injuries.

My italics. No shortage of light in urban areas or in daylight.

BTW, me anti-car and left wing? I don't think so! And cyclist without lights at night are :mad:

wiggy
6th Mar 2018, 14:36
From what Iíve seen around some of the bling brigade donít want to spoil the lines of their umpteen thousand quid bike and of course donít want to carry the weight up the ďoutside categoryĒ climbs on the South Downs..;)

In all honesty you can get a set of lightweight cycling lights for not a lot, and certainly if I am out on the road in the P.M. in the winter Iíll carry a set in my back pocket that I can use if I have a mechanical on the road and end up still pedalling away after dark.

There really is no excuse for anyone not using bike lights at night, but Iíll add I do set the rear light to flash if I am in a built up area and Iím not about to apologise for doing so.

funfly
6th Mar 2018, 14:51
who do not go in single file

The highway code demands a maximum of two abreast, that means that if a group is cycling two abreast they have to single out if they are passing another cyclist.

Cycling in single file is a courtesy not a requirement. However, as a cyclist myself, I hate to see the groups remaining two abreast when traffic is around, apart from bad manners it represents a road hazard.
This sort of group do not seem to cycle as a recreation but as 'training' and have seen too much 'Tour de France' on TV trying to copy them. They wear 'team' shirts and put their own pursuit in preference to road safety, many are bearded over 50s and would do better just to enjoy the outdoors and the sheer joy of cycling.
This sort of 'speed' cycling requires police escort.

treadigraph
6th Mar 2018, 15:07
I've got a set of very lightweight and bright LED lights, about the size of my little finger. They are on or off my bike in a jiffy and are recharged via USB. Didn't cost much...

Went out with a local cycling group of about 20 once, never again. Prefer to ride at my own pace, stop when I want to, not have to worry about getting through junctions, etc.

gruntie
6th Mar 2018, 15:16
Cyclists who are two abreast vs. single file are irrelevant: they both need adequate road space to overtake them, whether thereís one or two doesnít matter.
What DOES matter is groups of cyclists who insist in riding in long crocodiles thus giving overtaking traffic nowhere to go - and thus preventing overtaking at all.
On twisting country roads - ie, most of them - they effectively block all other road users, and create traffic queues than can stretch for miles. As drivers themselves, they must be aware of this: if they are, and donít care, then they deserve no mercy.....

DaveReidUK
6th Mar 2018, 15:19
Passing 30 cyclists in single file is considerably more difficult than if they are cycling two abreast since they take up twice as much linear distance on the road.

And on a typical single-carriagway road, there is plenty of room to pass side-by-side cyclists provided there is nothing coming in the opposite direction (and if there is something coming, it probably wasn't safe to overtake even a solo cyclist).

In other words, the "two-abreast" moaners are complaining because they've been denied the opportunity to overtake dangerously.

Mr Mac
6th Mar 2018, 16:06
Funfly
Totally agree with you re training comments.

Dave Reid
I wish it was only two abreast on the moor land roads round me. These were used in Tour of Yorkshire / France and we have these groups every weekend and evening during the summer - 3-4 is quite standard. I find it quite interesting when the sports car fraternity also come out top play !
Just to make it interesting the off road mountain bikers also like shooting around on tracks and paths, some even at night with a head torch scaring the hell out of you when doing any late night chores like bins, dog walking etc. However we have slowed them down by changing the road surface on the un-adopted road we live on, and in doing so had to introduce a drainage edit which has caused a marked deceleration in some down hill antics, after some crashes and damaged pride !

I am not a kill joy but there does seem to have to be a bit more give and take, which seems to be absent from the new Brad Wiggins inspired cyclists IMHO.

Regards
Mr Mac

Krystal n chips
6th Mar 2018, 16:10
This should induce the usual feeding frenzy when it comes to cyclists....surprised it wasn't the basis for the thread actually.

Death by dangerous cycling: Review recommends new law to punish cyclists in same way as drivers | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dangerous-cycling-law-criminal-offence-recommended-review-mps-death-crashes-road-a8240926.html)

treadigraph
6th Mar 2018, 16:16
Cycling at some speed along a narrow country lane I met a huge bunch of wiggalikes coming the other way. No concept of other direction traffic having any sort of right of way. Had a go at a few, paticularly the Dick who had dismounted on a bend, then pushed his bike across the lane right in front of me without looking. Some sort of charity ride but no police or marshals.

treadigraph
6th Mar 2018, 16:25
This should induce the usual feeding frenzy when it comes to cyclists....surprised it wasn't the basis for the thread actually.

Death by dangerous cycling: Review recommends new law to punish cyclists in same way as drivers | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dangerous-cycling-law-criminal-offence-recommended-review-mps-death-crashes-road-a8240926.html)

Seems fair enough to me, but there really are a lot of pedestrians who step into the road without looking. Not sure if I still have the video of a girl who stepped out in front of me last year, never looked up from the phone in her hand. It wasn't a crossing.

Andy_S
6th Mar 2018, 16:36
This sort of group do not seem to cycle as a recreation but as 'training' and have seen too much 'Tour de France' on TV trying to copy them. They wear 'team' shirts and put their own pursuit in preference to road safety, many are bearded over 50s and would do better just to enjoy the outdoors and the sheer joy of cycling.

Spot on.

I noticed this story a few weeks ago and was waiting for a good opportunity to comment on it:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/feb/07/cyclists-face-ban-from-a63-near-hull-after-accidents

It begs the question of whether cyclists should be banned from some roads and / or at particular times of day.

To be honest, if someone is insane enough to cycle on a high speed dual carriageway then good luck to them. My rant concerns cyclists on regular A-Roads.

My own route to and from work takes me along some relatively narrow, often bendy but always (at that time of day) busy single carriageway A-Roads. Several times a week, Iím either caught up in, or observe (coming the other way) long queues of vehicles crawling behind a lone cyclist. These cyclists are exactly the way you describe, and seem to have zero interest in co-operating with vehicle users. They frequently cycle well out from the verge and never, ever pull over and give faster moving vehicles to pass. Since the nature of these roads is such that opportunities for overtaking are intermittent, the queues just build and build. And somehow I get the impression that this breed of cyclist actually gets a fair bit of self-righteous pleasure out of the inconvenience they cause.

So, my question is Ė should we ban cycling at peak hours on busy roads?

Krystal n chips
6th Mar 2018, 16:46
Seems fair enough to me, but there really are a lot of pedestrians who step into the road without looking. Not sure if I still have the video of a girl who stepped out in front of me last year, never looked up from the phone in her hand. It wasn't a crossing.

I know, the obsession with being engrossed in whatever device of choice, even before basic road safety being now an established part of contemporary life ( what could possibly go wrong ! )

But I'm sure m'learned friends will doubless see this as another lucrative income stream, not forgetting the opportunity to be credited with setting the precedent in law with the first, if it comes to fruition, successful prosecution.

I encounter cyclists every time, collectively and individually, I travel to my hobby...the road is very popular to put it mildly, but, I've never subscribed to the view ( JB ) that all cyclists are inherently dangerous and should be banned ( or shot on sight ) from the roads.

Grayfly
6th Mar 2018, 16:51
I enjoy hill walking and often share walking paths with off-road cyclists. Most are polite and are aware that we are all sharing the same space.

However, there is a growing number who assume this is now their right of way and head downhill at speed. Apparently having a bell to warn people in front of them spoils the weight and balance and increases drag. Shouting 'get out of f'ing way' is the new warning procedure. I wish these cyclists all the joys of the laws of motion when sudden stops occur due to ground conditions.

Trossie
6th Mar 2018, 17:12
Also with regards lights these same groups come out in early spring with there flashing strobe front lights, which is like an explosion of Paparazzi on a dark night. I wonder if anyone has suffered an epileptic fit from such yet,as it surly can only be time until they do.
It is illegal to have a flashing light fixed to the vehicle (bicycle). I find these front strobes to be highly irritating and distracting. The last time I encountered one was soon after sunrise on a quiet road where the two of us were the only road users with him coming towards me. His front strobe was so irritating and unnecessarily distracting (he was the other side of a wide enough road and I was in no way any threat to him) that he got the full 'blast' of me flashing my brights rapidly on and off until after I was past him.

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Mar 2018, 17:16
Cycling in single file is a courtesy not a requirement.

Unless you're a motorist. In which case a long line of single file cyclists is much harder to overtake than a short bunch, as you have to find a much longer stretch of road for which it's safe for you to be on the wrong side.

Krystal n chips
6th Mar 2018, 17:17
It is illegal to have a flashing light fixed to the vehicle (bicycle). I find these front strobes to be highly irritating and distracting. The last time I encountered one was soon after sunrise on a quiet road where the two of us were the only road users with him coming towards me. His front strobe was so irritating and unnecessarily distracting (he was the other side of a wide enough road and I was in no way any threat to him) that he got the full 'blast' of me flashing my brights rapidly on and off until after I was past him.

Your concern for the safety of another road user is, well, truly touching.....and illuminating.

Are brights the latest derivative of the English ( Yorkshire version ) language for bright lights then ?

wiggy
6th Mar 2018, 17:19
With regard to comments from some drivers about cyclist's often not pulling in right next to the kerb to let cars past...one look at what is in and near the gutter of most UK roads will give you the answer.

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Mar 2018, 17:19
Apparently having a bell to warn people in front of them spoils the weight and balance and increases drag.
Doesn't always work if you do have a bell. A single "ding" is usually meant, and is usually taken by pedestrians to mean, "there's a bike coming up behind you, so it would be best for all of us, please, if you weren't suddenly to move sideways without looking".

But there's still the minority of pedestrians who will take the slightest touch on a bell as a reason to swear at you, or to spread their group out across the path so that you can't pass them at all.

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Mar 2018, 17:21
With regard to comments from some drivers about cyclist's often not pulling in right next to the kerb to let cars past...one look at what is in and near the gutter of most UK roads will give you the answer.
Cyclists do usually pull in when they regard it as safe, from their point of view, for the motorist to overtake. Which doesn't mean the motorist should overtake, of course, as they have to apply their own judgement, and cannot rely on that of the cyclist, who may not even have a driving licence.

So, if a cyclist is not pulling in, they do not regard it as safe for you to overtake (other than in a separate lane, of course, which is almost always fine), so don't.

DaveReidUK
6th Mar 2018, 17:27
It is illegal to have a flashing light fixed to the vehicle (bicycle).

No, it isn't.

It may not be wise (it makes it much more difficult for other road users to judge the distance between them and you) but it certainly isn't illegal.

wiggy
6th Mar 2018, 18:44
GtW

Cyclists do usually pull in when they regard it as safe, from their point of view, for the motorist to overtake

Sounds fair...

Itís a while since I cycled in the U.K. on a regular basis and itís threads like this that makes me appreciate where I now live.....quiet, well maintained roads, cycling savvy drivers and cycling savvy cyclists not decked out in Pro team regalia and generally not riding the latest kit.....oh, and hills to die for...or in my case, die on...:\

Tashengurt
6th Mar 2018, 19:17
The highway code states that flashing lights are permitted. I think this is a fairly recent amendment after LED lights became popular.
I wouldn't personally use a flashing front light. Distracting for all.

BigEndBob
6th Mar 2018, 19:27
When i was involved in traffic lights we had to pass strict BSI approval regards various properties such as brightness, colour, anti phantom, etc.
On the day i attended with a light for testing, the tester showed me his next job, a Pifco cycle lamp, that was to be tested.
I think these days like traffic light, under EU/CE everything is self certification.
These bright cycle lights probably wouldn't pass the old standard.

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Mar 2018, 19:30
I wouldn't personally use a flashing front light. Distracting for all.
Including, mostly, that you can't see where you're going whilst the light is out. As well as a steady front light, I'd ideally have a flashing rear light and a steady one.

Once Upon A Time I used to drive a motorbike, where visibility at night with rain on your visor at roundabouts is very difficult, with lights of all different colours flashing at you from all directions. I found then that the most reliable indicators of a cyclist were the wheel reflectors and pedal reflectors ... but of course that's specific to those particular circumstances, and would certainly not be the best way to see a cyclist coming towards you on a narrow unlit country road, for which a bright steady front light is needed.

Then there's the stealth pedestrians ... wearing black from hoodie to shoe and surprised that a cyclist swerves to miss them, having only seen them with a second or so to go. One of the most helpful pedestrians I came across was a jogger wearing hi-ris cycle clips, he (or she, I could only see the cycle clips) was obvious enough.

meadowrun
6th Mar 2018, 19:40
All cyclists should affix cigarette cards on their spokes with clothespins.

ExSp33db1rd
6th Mar 2018, 21:22
In my opinion seems a World Wide problem, maybe Trump should be on to it ?

In Southern California, L.A. area, cyclists avoid the "road" like a plague, using the "sidewalk" ( UK Pavement) most times, ignoring any traffic signals, pedestrian crossing directions and generally behaving as if they are the only species on the planet.

Here in NZ there is currently a plethora of "cycle lanes" being created which is enraging shopkeepers and retailers in most towns, because .... no one can park at the roadside to either patronise the shops, or even deliver goods, 'cos this blocks the "cycle lane".

When I grew up we rode our cycles to school in full obedience ( most times ! ) of the road rules and shared the road with cars without all the present drama. We were taught to use hand signals, obey Stop / Halt at Major Road Ahead signs, never ride on the pavement and obliged to display for and aft red and white lights after the official "Lighting Up Time" - which was published widely. I attached a little dynamo gadget to my bike that could be tilted towards the tyre when required, to allow the tyre to turn a little knurled knob on the top and power front and rear lights, this could be twisted away by day, to reduce any real, or imagined, extra drag. Never had to remember to buy another lamp battery. Simple, foolproof.

Why has it all gone so badly wrong ?

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Mar 2018, 21:42
Here in NZ there is currently a plethora of "cycle lanes" being created which is enraging shopkeepers and retailers in most towns, because .... no one can park at the roadside to either patronise the shops, or even deliver goods, 'cos this blocks the "cycle lane".
The way to get that right is well understood - for each car parking place you remove, make sure you install two bike parking spaces. This saves a lot of road space, allowing you to put in the cycle lanes, and increases the retailer's take (each cyclist does spend less than each driver, but not that much less).

There are several examples of retailers who opposed cycle infrastructure before it was installed but changed their minds afterwards when their takings went up.

Tankertrashnav
6th Mar 2018, 22:34
There was a father of one of the kids at our local school. Had a big heavy old fashioned bike - not sure if it had a basket on the front but you get the picture. Lived in a rural spot up typical narrrow Cornish single track road with high hedges. Cycling along in the dark one night with no lights (he no doubt figured he would spot cars coming as they would have lights), when the law of sod came into operation, with a vengeance.

Collided head on with another similarly lampless cyclist.

Killed.

Carry0nLuggage
7th Mar 2018, 08:22
These bright cycle lights probably wouldn't pass the old standard.

Thank goodness for that! The performance and reliability of lights to that standard was miserably poor to say the least.


Low light output even with halogen bulbs
Weak battery contacts
No weather resistance
Heavy and large - Awkward to keep with you to avoid theft

Over the decade I spent commuting by bike I must have tried every brand and they were all BSI standard and all rubbish. Two sets of lights every winter, and some of those failed before the batteries!

All dynamos are draggy except friction driven ones in the wet :eek:

The prohibition of flashing lights prohibited the use of LEDs for a while. Even on continuous, LEDs are pulsed faster than you'll notice in order to get the output up without overheating them.

BATCO
7th Mar 2018, 13:26
.... no one can park at the roadside to either patronise the shops, or even deliver goods, 'cos this blocks the "cycle lane".
....

Stunned. NZ drivers must be very well disciplined. Wherever I have lived parking in cycle lanes is common.

Regards
Batco

Doctor Cruces
7th Mar 2018, 15:34
I have to say that the only times I have been close to hitting a cyclist with my car have been when the cyclist has been behaving like a complete t**t with regard to other road uses and the laws governing use of the roads.

The only time i have actually collided with a cyclist was when he hit me after failing to take notice (more likely failing to even see) the give way sign on the cycle path he was on. I was turning into my work car park when he came up from what had been behind me (I had passed him a good way back) at warp speed, head down and really going for it.

Needless to say he was getting quite shirty until I took a pic of his ruined front wheel buried in my wheel arch with the give way clearly visible on the ground and offered to call the Police and show it to them when they arrived.

radeng
7th Mar 2018, 15:53
Most of B4696 in rural North Wilts is unlit - and not that many houses adjacent to the road, either. It is not uncommon for cyclists with no lights and dark clothing (and even one or two with no reflector!) to be found going home in the early but completely dark winter evening....

Argonautical
7th Mar 2018, 16:27
It is illegal to have a flashing light fixed to the vehicle (bicycle)

Since 2005 it is legal too have flashing lights but the front one must be white and the rear one, red. You also need to have a red rear reflector. The jury is out however on which type is best. I myself have a steady white at the front and a flashing AND steady red lights at the rear.

Gertrude the Wombat
7th Mar 2018, 17:07
The jury is out however on which type is best. I myself have a steady white at the front and a flashing AND steady red lights at the rear.
That sounds like a pretty good attempt at "best" to me :ok:

Blues&twos
7th Mar 2018, 19:43
I like the flashing ones, from a driver's point of view. They are more attention grabbing and it's easier to identify a cyclist as a cyclist if there is other traffic about.

4mastacker
7th Mar 2018, 20:36
Have a look at some of the videos on Youtube taken by cyclists trying to show themselves as the "good guys" on busy roads. There are a fair few which appear to show some of the cyclists are going out of their way to engineer confrontations with car/van/bus drivers whilst others show the cyclists' complete disregard for traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, one-way systems, etc. I don't know if it is relevant to this discussion but most of the videos are recorded in London.

That said, a certain group of cyclists use the towpath of our local canal for some sort of time trialling (Strava based?). Occasionally, there is the rewarding sound of a loud splash as one of the lycra-clad Bradley Wiggins wannabees misjudges the narrowness of the towpath as it passes beneath the bridges.

ExSp33db1rd
7th Mar 2018, 21:31
There are several examples of retailers who opposed cycle infrastructure before it was installed but changed their minds afterwards when their takings went up.

Maybe that will work in places where there are more bikes than cars, Cambridge ? Amsterdam ? but not in NZ where Car is King, and bikes, although increasing, are fairly rare, but currently being encouraged, hence the new Bike Lanes to encourage growth, but a topic of dissension at the moment. I live 4 hours drive from Auckland, I'm not going to cycle it when I need to visit.

Stunned. NZ drivers must be very well disciplined. Wherever I have lived parking in cycle lanes is common.

Not permitted to even drive in cycle lanes or bus lanes, except for the last 200 metres when it might be necessary to turn left, and that area is often painted green to identify it, otherwise ...... Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200. ( pay it instead ! )

Gertrude the Wombat
7th Mar 2018, 21:42
Maybe that will work in places where there are more bikes than cars, Cambridge ? Amsterdam ?
My recollection (but, sorry, I'm too tired to look it up just now) is that one of the commonly quoted case studies is from somewhere in the USA.

(There probably are more bikes than cars in Cambridge, actually, with the average rich family probably having four of five bikes and only two cars, and the poorest households obviously having no cars at all because they can't afford them. But numbers of bikes that exist aren't the whole story - I have no idea how many bikes my current household has physically on the premises (my wife has two (that work) and I have one, but one of our garages is full of bikes belonging to kids who don't live here any more, in varying states of usefulness), but as only two of us live here now we can only use two of them at once.)

meadowrun
7th Mar 2018, 23:57
one of our garages is full of bikes belonging to kids who don't live here any more, in varying states of usefulness), but as only two of us live here now we can only use two of them at once.)


A couple of good options there.
Ebay
or donate to one of those charities who employ the needy to fix them up and sell them generating funds for charitable purposes and more bikes for kids and assorted folks.


(by charitable purposes - - - - - I don't mean piled into the next container to Africa to be sold for profit.)

G-CPTN
8th Mar 2018, 06:37
There is a market for bicycles in Cambridge, as students arrive for three years then depart.
College staff often 'inherit' the abandoned cycles of those students who leave, and 'supply' them to the new intake.
In addition, the police regularly collect cycles left unattended obstructing footpaths and these are taken to a 'pound' from where the owner can retrieve their cycle - though many remain unclaimed, and these are auctioned off at regular intervals.