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GLIDER 90
6th Mar 2018, 09:51
Morning All

With having driven all round the UK the amount of "moran's " you see who do not indicate at roundabouts or exiting left off a A or B road. Whats up with these "morans" do they want to cause accidents or is it the I'm all right jack syndrome. They have got effort to operate a mobile phone when they want to, so why not indicate? The UK Highway Code does state that you are required to signal at roundabouts or when exiting left off a A or B road.

Glider 90

CargoMatatu
6th Mar 2018, 09:56
Maybe it's because they're MORONS (what's a "morAn"?) :ugh::ugh::ugh:

gruntie
6th Mar 2018, 10:04
(what's a "morAn"?)

A young Masai warrior. I donít think he means one of those.

GLIDER 90
6th Mar 2018, 10:08
I was just "testing"

PDR1
6th Mar 2018, 10:16
Indicators are for conformist wimps.

PDR

strake
6th Mar 2018, 10:20
It's all relative.
Where I live in France, there are many approaches to the nuisance that is the roundabout. One, is to accelerate violently onto the roundabout and then screech to a stop in the middle to allow another car to enter. It is also quite possible to cling grimly to the outside of the roundabout without any signal - a variation is to stick firmly to the inside in a similar fashion until launching across other traffic to exit. Some use indicators in all the scenarios above but invariably, these 'jolie lumiere' have no bearing on any possible intention the driver may have.
The result however, is a philosophical shrug of the shoulders and life moves on.
I hope the above offers some comfort to the OP.

jolihokistix
6th Mar 2018, 10:34
Roundabouts are brilliant for the locals because they know what's coming and jam into the correct lanes before outsiders realize that the roundabout they are approaching has an unusual lane rule specific to this roundabout, with no visible advanced warning in most cases, or if so the arrows are buried under the wheels of the line of traffic ahead. So you are stuffed, unless you have the brass ones to push into where you really want to go, relying on the truly generous nature of other British motorists. One might forget a winker or two in such a situation, however.


Rule #1 for UK roundabouts. Any rule you learned in driving school will be broken by the first roundabout you come to.

Super VC-10
6th Mar 2018, 10:54
Rule #2 for UK roundabouts: The bigger vehicle has right of way.

Blues&twos
6th Mar 2018, 11:10
What people don't seem to be able to figure out is that if you miss your exit off a roundabout, you can GO ROUND AGAIN.

WingNut60
6th Mar 2018, 11:13
What people don't seem to be able to figure out is that if you miss your exit off a roundabout, you can GO ROUND AGAIN.

....and again, and again .........

Planemike
6th Mar 2018, 11:18
Rule #2 for UK roundabouts: The bigger vehicle has right of way.


Works for me......!!!!:D:D

Cornish Jack
6th Mar 2018, 12:22
Why only concerned about roundabout exits?
Brit 'drivers' totally fail to understand the concept of indicators - that of INDICATING INTENDED ACTION!!! The standard seems to be that, IF you use the indicators, you indicate action, not intention, unless you drive a BMW, Range Rover, Audi or similar, in which case you find the concept much too difficult, technically, so don't bother at all.:ugh:
I find that observing the external indications from other road users (brake lights, indicators, head and tail lights) are reliable indicators (yes, I know!) of the ability of the 'driver'. Can't see any possibility of an improvement, given the modern taste for sloppy behaviour in general. Assume ALL other road users are homicidal maniacs and you won't go far wrong!!

gruntie
6th Mar 2018, 12:24
One might forget a winker or two

Spelling malfunction, surely?

Donít moan about roundabouts until youíve experienced life without them. The first time I encountered a 4-way stop sign in Los Angeles, I had to wait so long I nearly had a family.

treadigraph
6th Mar 2018, 12:29
Dunno Gruntie, there's a roundabout near me that I wish was a four way stop at rush hour. Most of the on-coming traffic is turning right; soon as that pauses, the stuff the right is at full charge. I always avoid it now though I prefer the route.

Checkboard
6th Mar 2018, 12:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=66&v=6OGvj7GZSIo

ShyTorque
6th Mar 2018, 12:52
On any roundabout in UK you can see three or four cars all carrying out the same manoeuvre but all indicating differently. Or all indicating the in exactly the same way, but all doing totally different manoeuvres.

People used to be far better disciplined and apparently more knowledgable about driving on roundabouts (and elsewhere) - is the standard of tuition for new drivers actually considerably worse than it was in days gone by? It seems so, despite theory and hazard perception testing.

obgraham
6th Mar 2018, 13:35
About those 4way stops: there are established rules for them.

But no, our betters in the highway departments decided what we needed was those UK roundabouts. So now we are inundated with them, no 2 of which are designed alike. Chaos now reigns.

And I have yet to see anyone “indicating” at them. Ever.

Grayfly
6th Mar 2018, 13:35
Time to bring back black and white public information films on all aspects of road use and driving. The problem with roundabouts is that they attract the drivers who are just accidents waiting to happen.

I still contend that there are a lot of drivers on UK roads who don't have a driving licence and have never sat and passed a test anywhere on this planet.

wowzz
6th Mar 2018, 13:53
Good to see the Magic Roundabout in action. Used it many times when living in the area, and it was surprisingly easy to use, once the initial fear had passed!

Loose rivets
6th Mar 2018, 15:40
Four way stops, like all stop signs in the US are a pain - but 4 way does work. It's the sudden arrival at a 2 way stop that'll get the furrin driver. You get there first, stop and assume it's your right of way now, but along comes Bubba in his truck who lets you know in no uncertain terms he's on the road that doesn't have to stop.

UK roundabouts. Okay, I admit I must be simple but as I've posted before, when I came back to the UK I spent an age, twice, looking at the government site about the law. After ages, I could not work out the proper use of a roundabout - unless one was turning left, or right. They were straightforward. Erm, not straightforward in yer car, you understand. :p

I'd like other's take on all angles between left-ish and right-ish turns. Use of lanes. I gather changing lanes hasn't altered, inasmuch as moving to an outer lane one has to give way to stuff overtaking on your left.

That U-Tube of a police driver showed him charging across a roundabout much like I used to. He just used what road was available, but it doesn't tally with any wording I've seen.

Something that confuses drivers visiting the Channel Isles it zipping at roundabouts. I got glared at, but was prompted and thereafter rather liked the concept.

Tell you what, it's the aggressive charging at people that messes up most junctions. Just like Bubba, kids accelerate - sometimes with both fists in the air, just to make the point they've had to slow down from the speed of light because you're a little tardy. They just don't get it. There would I'm sure, be a net gain in flow if people were courteous, and they too get stuck behind timid drivers who are afraid of traffic on their right.


http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/roundabouts.html


185 and 186

When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout
you should not normally need to signal on approach
stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.

Buster15
6th Mar 2018, 15:59
How can you expect anybody to lift their finger an inch or so to reach the indicator stalk and then to actually move it all that way up or down. Far too much effort. Anyway, they know where they are going (maybe) so why should anyone else???

Mac the Knife
6th Mar 2018, 16:01
Please don't praise 4-way-stops!

We have 'em here and it's basically a "Who dares, wins!" and bloody dangerous

Better, mind you than the old French prioritť ŗ droite that was even worse!

I wos lurned to indicate on roundabouts, which is not usual in SA, and still do from habit

Mac

PS: I think we are the only country that actually has traffic lights ON roundabouts:uhoh:

Smeagol
6th Mar 2018, 16:25
PS: I think we are the only country that actually has traffic lights ON roundabouts

Unfortunately you are wrong. The UK now seems obsessed with putting traffic lights on roundabouts. the county council here in Norfolk are currently 'upgrading' several sets of lights (which seemed fine to all the users that I have talked to) and also installing lights on a nearby roundabout. It will cause large tailbacks at peak times but this almost seems to be the plan:mad:

I am of the firm belief that Traffic Planners ( I will NOT use the word Engineer in this context) should have been strangled at birth:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Trossie
6th Mar 2018, 18:03
... the concept of indicators - that of INDICATING INTENDED ACTION!!! The standard seems to be that, IF you use the indicators, you indicate action, not intention, unless you drive a BMW, Range Rover, Audi or similar, in which case you find the concept much too difficult, technically, so don't bother at all. In Post #5, PDR1 has given away the type of car he drives!

Pontius Navigator
6th Mar 2018, 18:44
Remember the mantra espoused by the MOT of old, MSM. Sadly today's motorists have got it mixed up - it is NOT manoeuvre, signal, mirror.

We were attacked three times today, woman pulling out of junction on the left, man from the right (emergency braking necessary) and low powered car overtaking a truck, uphill, and left hand bend.
.

DaveReidUK
6th Mar 2018, 18:51
At the risk of stating the obvious, the best indicating strategies at conventional and mini-roundabouts aren't necessarily the same.

obgraham
6th Mar 2018, 21:33
Why is a 4way stop so difficult, Mac:

He who arrives first has right of way.
Them as arrives simultaneously, the one on the right has right of way.

You silly buggers that prefer roundabouts are just mad that you actually have to, you know, stop when the sign says STOP.

Meanwhile at the roundabouts everyone makes up their own rules and then claims “well this type of roundabout requires this action, and everyone else is wrong”.

Devil’s work, those roundabouts.

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Mar 2018, 22:12
He who arrives first has right of way.
Them as arrives simultaneously, the one on the right has right of way.
So if there's 10 cars waiting at three of the legs and 20 cars waiting at the fourth you've got to remember the order in which 50 cars arrived, even though you couldn't see most of them doing so?

MG23
6th Mar 2018, 22:27
So if there's 10 cars waiting at three of the legs and 20 cars waiting at the fourth you've got to remember the order in which 50 cars arrived, even though you couldn't see most of them doing so?

No, because they don't arrive at the stop line until they arrive at the stop line.

Though some people do seem to think that because they reached the back of the queue before you did, they should be able to go first.

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Mar 2018, 22:38
Though some people do seem to think that because they reached the back of the queue before you did, they should be able to go first.
Sounds a bit like the Italian system: road junction is an unmarked irregular patch of tarmac with six or seven roads leading off it. Everyone drives from where they are to where they want to go, but very slowly, so although most of the cars have several dents in them nobody much gets hurt.

ExSp33db1rd
6th Mar 2018, 22:40
IMHO all right indicators should be banned on roundabouts. One only needs to advise that one is departing at the next exit, to the LEFT, otherwise one can stay on the roundabout in an obligatory RIGHT hand pattern all day. ( Nb. this does not prohibit using a right indicator to change lane whilst still approaching, if necessary ) Remember the Mad Major who attempted to make 100 non-stop circuits of Picadilly Circus in a Messerschmidt Bubble-Car of the era ?

Unfortunately NZ rules have recently changed to insist on a right indicator when going more than, effectively, straight across, so ..... one waits for the car on the roundabout indicating a right turn to pass across ones' bows, only to find that it exits left down your offside - still showing the incorrect right turn indicator.

Wrong indicators are worse then no indicators.

NZ drivers have absolutely no idea how to use roundabouts, the warning Give Way ( to traffic approaching from the right ) sign is almost universally read as Stop ! Give Way means " do not impede the progress of" it does not mean Stop.

Some NZ motorway ramps have a sign that says "merge like a zip" Brilliant, why can't that be World Wide, universal practice at roundabouts ? After all, I believe that the original concept from the first '30's designed roundabouts was that no one need ever stop at an intersection again ? But ...of course there was less traffic. ( was Mankind right to have invented the wheel ? )

Tankertrashnav
6th Mar 2018, 23:44
I drove round the Arc de Triomphe once.

Just once :eek:

ExSp33db1rd
7th Mar 2018, 00:17
I drove round the Arc de Triomphe once.

and survived ? !!

sherburn2LA
7th Mar 2018, 00:37
If you need to indicate for the benefit of those behind you are just not going fast enough.

Four way stops. Cheap junctions for not so busy street on a grid. At least if you hit somebody they will likely not be going very fast.

Roundabouts best for medium traffic flow (except in Pasadena where using stop lines instead of give ways entirely misses the point) not so much when one direction establishes a constant flow. Traffic lights on roundabouts a reasonable measure for that but switch the f****g things off at night.

Priority a Droite. An OK option for population control. Traffic management not so much.

ExSp33db1rd
7th Mar 2018, 02:21
Four way stops.

Isn't one supposed to Stop / Go in order of arrival, regardless of direction, or who has whom on the right ( or left ) ? or is that too simplistic - and doesn't take into account Human Nature ?

SnowFella
7th Mar 2018, 07:24
This comes to mind somehow!
https://youtu.be/iAgX6qlJEMc

Pontius Navigator
7th Mar 2018, 07:29
PS: I think we are the only country that actually has traffic lights ON roundabouts

Unfortunately you are wrong. The UK now seems obsessed with putting traffic lights on roundabouts. the county council here in Norfolk are currently 'upgrading' several sets of lights (which seemed fine to all the users that I have talked to) and also installing lights on a nearby roundabout. It will cause large tailbacks at peak times but this almost seems to be the plan:mad:

I am of the firm belief that Traffic Planners ( I will NOT use the word Engineer in this context) should have been strangled at birth:mad::mad::mad::mad:

In Boston, for some mad reason they removed traffic lights on each end of the 'in town' roundabouts. Crazy as out was the traffic flows more freely. What b^ggers up the traffic flow is the pedestrian lights, especially those not at cross roads.

Pontius Navigator
7th Mar 2018, 07:33
No, because they don't arrive at the stop line until they arrive at the stop line.

Though some people do seem to think that because they reached the back of the queue before you did, they should be able to go first.

Spot on, and same at a roundabouts with traffic flowing from the right ignoring traffic queuing on the left. If I stop on reaching the dashed line across the road it totally confuses traffic waiting on the left!

obgraham
7th Mar 2018, 08:21
I find it oddly satisfying that those of you who are forever mocking the driving skills of non-Euro/Brits can’t seem to figure out a 4-way stop.

Blues&twos
7th Mar 2018, 08:28
4 way stop, pretty similar to 4 way roundabout when all four combatants arrive at the give way lines at the same time.

Hokulea
7th Mar 2018, 08:55
Not an issue at all!
https://youtu.be/gw-nvo4BzOM

andytug
7th Mar 2018, 09:29
What the majority of UK motorists seem to have forgotten is that indicators are to "indicate" what you are going to do, In Advance!!
So many if they use then at all only put them in having already commenced the manoeuvre, then if you're lucky they may look in the mirror and realise it was a stupid thing to do. Lane changes on motorways are a prime example, roundabouts also...

Pontius Navigator
7th Mar 2018, 20:16
AT , as I said above, MSM, manoeuvre, signal, mirror.

dixi188
7th Mar 2018, 20:35
Had a Texan captain fly with us out of Southend about 1980. I used to drive back and forth to the hotel most days, but one night about 4am he asked if he could drive as he had driven "4 on the floor" is his youth.
He turned left out of the airport on the wrong side of the road until I put him right,(left), got to a roundabout, stopped and said I better drive as he was at a loss as to which way round to go.

ShyTorque
7th Mar 2018, 21:19
I was lucky enough to be working in Norway when the country's first roundabout was opened. No-one knew how to cope with it.

Everyone stopped, everyone waited, everyone went. Everyone crashed into each other.

Repeated every day for about a week.

ExSp33db1rd
7th Mar 2018, 22:23
Norway .... wasn't it Sweden that changed from left hand drive to right hand drive one weekend ? That must have been fun.

Read somewhere that Ireland was considering the same action, cars to change on Saturday, heavy goods vehicles and buses on Sunday ?

Loose rivets
7th Mar 2018, 22:54
Tee hee . . . I've told the story before on pprune about getting my pal Paddy's Rover V8 into the garage to repair the throttle cable.

Why don't you drive it there? asks I.

Irritated look.

I'll . . . no, Oil tie a string to the carb, you drive, and Oil throttle from the back seat.

I talk Irish while I'm there.:}

This we did, and it worked perfectly. After all, my James motorcycle was the first powered vehicle my captain pal had ever driven, and he spent several dangerous years on my pillion before taking me on my first flight.

'Every time I wanted power, it just came, just as though I was treading on the pedal.'

Our minds were as one.


However, half way there he had to swerve. On a blind bend, a red-faced man in a tweed jacket and a Trabant, came around the corner, opposite way, on our side of the road. My pal said nothing.

The garage fixed our cable, and we were on our way. Half way home, the same thing happened.

'Bejeeeeeeeeeebers!' Exhaled I, 'Wasn't that the same man in the same Trabant, coulmin' t'other way? The one we swerved for on the way out?

My pal answered, putting aside his rich English accent - that hasn't normally altered after 45 years of Ireland, two Irish wives, and two delightful Irish daughters.

'Oh, to be sure, he always does that.' He reverted to Englishness after swerving back to the left lane. 'It takes a while to learn to drive in Ireland.'



Norway. I was there quite often in the early 70's. It's strange, but quite a few people didn't know why everyone was driving at 30 mph with their headlights on. Others did, and assured us that anyone not doing this during the transition period would find themselves in a lumber camp.