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tdracer
5th Mar 2018, 02:24
OK, with all the debate surrounding how bad (or good) the recent Dunkirk movie is, and the rumors of a Dambusters remake, I think it would be interesting to discuss which WWII movies really hit the mark.
Since I'm starting the thread, I'm making up a few rules:
There will be three categories - 1) is factually based, 2) is a fictional story but takes place within actual events (such as D-day or the Battle of Britain), 3) is 'fantasy' - the events supposedly occur during WWII, but the events are fictional - often an example of how someone wished WWII had gone (Inglorious Bastards being an extreme example).
They must be movies - as fantastic as I think Band of Brothers is (I think the raid at Brecourt Manor may be one of the best filmed battle scenes ever), it's a mini-series. There is a whole lot of good you can do in a 10 hour mini-series that simply isn't possible in a ~2 hour movie.
Realism and accuracy is important (and not just to the events - I think it's meaningful when the equipment, uniforms, etc. are accurate or at least look close ('Patton' was a great movie, but I can never get over that both sides use American tanks, and the German tanks look suspiciously like they are Patton tanks - irony alert).
OK, that being said:
1) Factually based I'd probably pick 'A Bridge too Far'. Extraordinarily well filmed and acted, it's reasonably close to the factual story, and the impact of the film was overwhelming. First time I watched it was with my father - a WWII combat vet but from the Pacific. He was really quiet when we left the theater - it was a little too realistic to be comfortable. Plus it tells a story that wasn't widely known before the movie (at least not on this side of the pond).
Honorable mentions to "Tora, Tora, Tora" - it's documentary style is bit dry for the average audience, but you'll never find a better depiction of the events of Dec. 7, 1941, and "Battle of Britain" - special effects are a bit dated but given it was made ~50 years ago I give them some slack (and they used real aircraft).

2) Fictional Story based on real events:
First on my list has to be "Saving Private Ryan" - again well filmed and acted, impressive special effects, and a riveting story (even if it's fictional). The simple fact that veterans of D-Day found the Omaha landing sequence so realistic as to cause issues says a lot.
Honorable mention to "Twelve O'clock High" - outstanding depiction of how desperate the European air war was in 1942-43 time period.

3) Fantasy
I simply love "Kelly's Hero's". Yea, I know there are plot holes you could drive a Sherman Tank through, but it's dynamite entertainment, the equipment is right (I was told the Tiger tanks are actually old Russian tanks mocked up to look like Tigers, but they do look pretty close - and real surviving Tiger tanks are extremely rare), and the story is fun.

westhawk
5th Mar 2018, 03:35
Honorable mention to "Twelve O'clock High" - outstanding depiction of how desperate the European air war was in 1942-43 time period.

2) You stole my thunder tdracer! Oh well, I liked 12OCH allot for the character study aspect of the main characters, especially the Gregory Peck character. In particular, the scene where "General Savage" delivers quite possibly the very best "dressing down" ever captured on film! Also see Command Decision for a similar attributes.

3) Fantasy: Gotta go with Stalag 17 and The Great Escape for their excellent plots, plot devices, dialogue and compelling acting. Honorable mention to The Dirty Dozen just because it was filled with gratuitous violent action and crude characters! Also, Lee Marvin was one of the top movie tough guys of his era, so he had that going for him!

tdracer
5th Mar 2018, 03:50
Westhawk, agree that The Great Escape and Stalag 17 are great movies, but The Great Escape belongs in category 1) - it's based on a true story, granted with some major liberties (I read a book about the actual Great Escape long ago). I thought about including it as an honorable mention.
Personally I'd put Stalag 17 into cat. 2) but agree it's borderline between 2) and 3).
Totally agree with Gregory Peck in 12 O'clock High - assume performance by a great actor. There may have been a Gregory Peck movie I've seen somewhere along the line where I didn't think he was great, but if there was I certainly can't remember it...

WingNut60
5th Mar 2018, 04:30
.....
3) Fantasy
I simply love "Kelly's Hero's". .....

I'm not sure the line that separates types 2 & 3, and I had to double-check before sticking my neck out, but I did seem to remember (correctly ??) that Kelley's Heroes was based, no matter how loosely, on a real event.

The story was covered in a book called “Nazi Gold: The Sensational Story of the World’s Greatest Robbery”.
It tells of a escapade perpetrated by a combination of renegade Nazi and American officers and was once listed in the Guinness Book of Records, in the 1960’s, as the “biggest” robbery ever.

Hokulea
5th Mar 2018, 04:40
For me:

1) A Bridge Too Far and The Battle of Britain are hard to beat. I also enjoyed The Longest Day, Tora Tora Tora and Sink the Bismark. A less well known film I still watch every so often is The Battle of the River Plate.

2) Saving Private Ryan is a standout. As I mentioned in the Dambusters thread, I also love The Cruel Sea.

3) I'm struggling with this one. There are plenty of movies but can't think of one that stands out for me right now - I suspect it's because I've always preferred fact of fiction! ETA - how about The Guns of Navarone? I don't get bored of that movie.

On a side note, I've just watched The Darkest Hour. I'm not sure it counts as a war movie as such, but it's certainly one of the most powerful movies I've watched in recent years and would go into category 1.

meadowrun
5th Mar 2018, 04:41
It won't be "Battle of the Bulge". Apparently even Eisenhower panned it as a bit of fluff.


We used "12 O'clock High" in management sessions. Played the whole movie. Then many questions about relating aspects of the film to running commercial airlines in the midst of a down cycle.


I do admire "A Bridge Too Far", mostly for its gallantry. Not many films about efforts, mistakes and losing in such dire situations.

Hokulea
5th Mar 2018, 04:49
Thought of another couple for category 3 which I love: The Caine Mutiny (although the novel is better than the movie) and Mister Roberts.

oldpax
5th Mar 2018, 04:57
"Enemy at the gates?"

oldpax
5th Mar 2018, 05:01
Try to edit again!!Here in Thailand Pattaya city has cable TV and as more and more Russian tourists turned up the cable company introduced Russin channels.there were a lot of Russian WW 2 movies shown from their side of the conflict ,I watched a few and some were very good although I cannot speak or read Russian it was easy to understand!!!

Barksdale Boy
5th Mar 2018, 05:08
633 Sqn. if only for the music and Harry Andrews' last line.

troppo
5th Mar 2018, 05:32
I don't know if any war movie is 'good' however my all time favorites would be Downfall, Saving Private Ryan, Memphis Belle, The Guns of Navarone and Where Eagles Dare and Escape to Victory the latter three primarily for their casts and the telling of stories you simply don't get these days.

B Fraser
5th Mar 2018, 06:23
It has to be "The Battle Of Britain" if only for the lovely Ms York wandering around in her undies. grrrrrrrrr.

Pontius Navigator
5th Mar 2018, 06:36
Cockleshell Heroes, Battle of the River Platte (Anticipation), Sink the Tirpitz, Operation Pedestal, Desert Rats, Sink the Bismarck, The Password is Courage, The Colditz Story, The Wooden Horse, River Kwai, Albert RN,

I also watched some contemporary WW 2 films with David Niven or John Mills. They were good too, especially a desert one with David Niven and the platoon, out of ammunition, fixing bayonets and advancing on German anti-tank and machine guns.

BB, 633 Sqn, that shot of a Land Rover always jarred with me. Agree about the music.

Pontius Navigator
5th Mar 2018, 06:37
Oh, and fictional, The Cruel Sea.

Hempy
5th Mar 2018, 06:52
In no particular order or category,

Unbroken
Memphis Belle
Downfall
BoB
Saving Pvt Ryan
Enemy at the Gates
Schindler’s List
Letters From Iwo Jima
The Thin Red Line
The Bridge on the River Kwai

BehindBlueEyes
5th Mar 2018, 07:04
Would it be too shameful to nominate Where Eagles Dare for Category 3?

Pure escapism but great fun and fabulous score too. I can watch it again and again. Burton and Eastwood in their prime. Great performances also from Derren Nesbitt as Major Von Hapen and the lovely Ingrid Pitt.

“Broadsword calling Danny Boy.”

Hokulea
5th Mar 2018, 07:09
How on earth did I forget this? Cat. 2: Das Boot.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was
5th Mar 2018, 07:09
In Cat 2, Saving Private Ryan is my all time favourite, followed by Hacksaw Ridge or Flags Of Our Fathers.

vctenderness
5th Mar 2018, 09:04
Downfall must hold the record for the most ‘overdubbed’ use of the Hitler rant scene to portray every event imaginable.

jolihokistix
5th Mar 2018, 09:19
Not directly WWII movies, but classics like Casablanca must surely be up there for Cat 3.

vapilot2004
5th Mar 2018, 09:51
Stephen Spielberg and Tom Hanks would appreciate this thread. I too would add Saving Private Ryan as my favorite all time WWII flick as well as seconding Flags of Our Fathers and Letters from Iwo Jima.

Of two movies based upon true events, The Imitation Game was nicely done and while it was no Academy Award winner, nor an epic movie by any stretch of the imagination, I appreciated the effort of Indianapolis: Men of Courage, if only due to the fact that I was schooled by my father on the terrible miscarriage of justice by the USN against Captain McVay.

Two complete fiction choices, but fun to watch are: Inglorious Basterds and Fury, the former very well acted with beautiful set design, and the latter, an accurate portrayal of tank warfare.

Edit: Turns out Fury, while overall a work of fiction, was in fact, based upon multiple true stories of WWII tankers.

Krystal n chips
5th Mar 2018, 09:57
Not a great fan of war movies, however, some are more interesting than others.

Memphis Belle
Saving Private Ryan
Das Boot
Schindler's List

A special mention in the fiction category for "The Dirty Dozen" as there are several scenes that appeal to my irreverent sense of humour and it's hard to disagree with Charles Bronson's closing sentiments.

"Kelly's Heroes "......obviously, as me and "Oddball" have a lot in common

Now, the bit some of you are going to take exception to.

Non of those films made after the war by the British, in black and white, and containing the same pool of otherwise nondescript and not over talented actors all portraying every stereotype character under the sun combined with endless jingoism for a rapt public.....well those who like jingoism that is.

Plenty to choose from, but thus far we've been spared a nomination for one of the worst "Ice Cold in Alex "....thankfully.

Expatrick
5th Mar 2018, 10:04
Of the Holocaust films -

Son of Saul

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Saul

Despite my limited Hungarian, watched it easily without the subtitles...

Buster11
5th Mar 2018, 10:34
Surely Andzrej Wajda's Kanal, about the Warsaw uprising, must be up there in category 1, along with his A Generation on the same topic.

Another of his films, Katyn, has a personal angle as his father was one of hundreds of Polish oficers massacred there by the Soviets in 1940.

Mr Mac
5th Mar 2018, 12:03
In like order but in no set order :-
Battle of Britain
Gettysburg
Das Boot
Cruel Sea
Sink The Bismark
Battle of the River Platte
Apocalypse Now

Sorry Krystal n Chips - Ice Cold in Alex as well

Dislike
Fury - ex tanker from late 70,s so know something of armoured warfare, and no Tiger would go charging into an open field at oncoming enemy armour.
U what ever - enigma machine theft - dire.
Inglorious Bastards - just do not get it or even some of his other films.
There are other post WW2 films which were also a bit dire but too many to mention.

Left field choices
Catch 22
Kelly Heroes

Regards
Mr Mac

paulc
5th Mar 2018, 12:16
Hacksaw Ridge should be on Cat 1 as it is based on real events / person.

keyboard flier
5th Mar 2018, 12:18
Reach for the Sky is a favourite of mine.

Krystal n chips
5th Mar 2018, 12:18
In like order but in no set order :-
Battle of Britain
Gettysburg
Das Boot
Cruel Sea
Sink The Bismark
Battle of the River Platte
Apocalypse Now

Sorry Krystal n Chips - Ice Cold in Alex as well

Dislike
Fury - ex tanker from late 70,s so know something of armoured warfare, and no Tiger would go charging into an open field at oncoming enemy armour.
U what ever - enigma machine theft - dire.
Inglorious Bastards - just do not get it or even some of his other films.
There are other post WW2 films which were also a bit dire but too many to mention.

Left field choices
Catch 22
Kelly Heroes

Regards
Mr Mac

Ah, slight problem with era's here Mr Mac.;)

Apocalypse Now came some time later, very good film I agree, but some of the cousins would be upset if I said why.

david1300
5th Mar 2018, 12:25
Cross of Iron - surprised it hasn't been mentioned

At ease
5th Mar 2018, 13:42
Cross of Iron - surprised it hasn't been mentioned

Another one featuring James Mason is "The Desert Fox".

"The Train" - Burt Lancaster, Paul Schofield.

"From Here To Eternity" - Lancaster, Sinatra, Clift, Borgine, Superman, and last but certainly not least, Donna Reed.

"The Scarlet and the Black" - Plummer/Peck.

Speaking of Sinatra and trains - "Von Ryan's Express".

"King Rat" - Segal/Fox(the other one)/Courtenay/Mills.

"The Bridge over the River Kwai" - Holden, Hawkins, Obi Won.

Mostly Harmless
5th Mar 2018, 13:43
All of my choices are listed except:

Empire of the Sun.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was
5th Mar 2018, 13:46
Hacksaw Ridge should be on Cat 1 as it is based on real events / person.
But not overly true to the actual events, so more a 1.5 I reckon.

Mr Mac
5th Mar 2018, 13:54
KnC
Sorry forgot the WW2 bit, so scratch Gettysburg and Apocalypse Now, both good films incidentally and the former historically accurate. Then add Cross Of Iron , Stalingrad, and Bridge too Far, and to keep the cousins happy, Bridge at Remagen just for the lack of CGI if nothing else.

Regards
Mr Mac

Highway1
5th Mar 2018, 14:05
Stalingrad - the German version

Film I keep coming back to watching is the Battle of Britain. It just had everything, great aircraft, real dogfights, great music, humour and above all Larry Olivier doing a fantastic Hugh Dowding.

mothminor
5th Mar 2018, 14:17
Whilst not strictly a film (dvd/blue ray box set) and totally American.....................


Band of Brothers

Highway1
5th Mar 2018, 14:22
I always prefer Pacific to BoB - it just seemed more realistic.

Tankertrashnav
5th Mar 2018, 14:24
"The Bridge over the River Kwai" - Holden, Hawkins, Obi Won.

:confused:

Took me a while to work that one out. I think Alec Guinness was both bemused and amused at the fact that he was mainly associated with this role by a whole new generation of film goers, although I'm sure he didn't object to picking up the cheque! Actually William Holden was given top billing for The Bridge on the River Kwai by the studio, but in the event Guinness acted him off the screen and got the best actor Oscar for his portrayal of Colonel Nicholson.

K & C - we have crossed swords on political matters many a time, but I have never been so shocked as at your description of Ice Cold in Alex as "one of the worst"! If you consider John Mills, Anthony Quayle, Sylvia Syms and Harry Andrews as "nondescript and not over talented actors" then I would like to hear who you do consider talented. Incidentally it was made in the same year as Bridge on the River Kwai, 1958 - a vintage year for WW2 films, and both of those are near the top of my list.

Another vote for The Train both for the superb performances by Paul Schofield and Burt Lancaster and the wonderful old locomotive which was the real star!

rog747
5th Mar 2018, 14:42
In no particular order but a few get my top votes:

I being a Brit of a certain age on every sunday afternoon there would be a usually british black and white war film as a must watch after Mum's Sunday roast but
first we listened to the wirelsss the clitheore kid then round the horn on the BBC light programme (now radio 2)
then the film would be on BBC or ITV (we had no other channels then)


Cruel Sea (a Fav)
memphis belle (a Fav)
dunkirk 2017 (a huge fav)
dark victory 2017 not seen it yet
one of our aircraft is missing
dambusters
carve her name with pride
atonement - a FAV
enigma - a fav
633 squadron
the first of the few - a FAV
downfall
casablanca - oh yes!
pearl harbor
charlotte grey
Churchill brian cox 2017
the gathering storm 2002 a must watch
reach for the sky
Sink The Bismarck awesome
Battle of the River Plate
Defiance jamie bell and daniel craig gripping
ice cold in alex
a town like alice amazing
in which we serve noel coward so british
bridge on the river kwai
went the day well superb
gift horse
we dive at dawn
odette
appointment in london
U-571 my pal was in this
the sea shall not have them
they who dare about Rhodes italian occupation on the greek islands
battle of the V-1
tower of terror 1941 British secret agent in Germany takes a job as the assistant to an elderly lighthouse keeper, planning to make his escape with some valuable documents.
run silent run deep
mosquito squadron
angels one five
operation crossbow
midway
The Diary of Anne Frank
colditz 2005 laurence fox tom hardy like this
The English Patient
Anthropoid gripping
Operation daybreak
the imitation game superb
Suite Française
USS Indianapolis: Men of Courage (could have been so much better)

the new remake of the dambusters has been mooted for several years now - i think the delay dilemma is what they call the dog now as to not offend the PC's LOL


TV Mini series
Resistance
french subtitles (superbe)

Australia
hugh jackman nicole kidman - darwin gets attacked by the Japanese


children saved from the nazis
docu-film about sir nicholas winton - met him several times

South Pacific (musical rodgers and hammerstein)
the sound of music (ditto)

my boy jack WW1 daniel radcliffe

tow1709
5th Mar 2018, 15:04
Rog747 - glad to see "the Sea shall not have them" get a mention. This was the very first film of any genre I ever saw on TV, being screened on the day we got our first TV back in 1961. I was allowed to stay up late and watch the end, despite school in the morning.

Another of the Sunday afternoon set was San Demetrio, London, telling the story of the salvaging of the petrol tanker of that name after the attack on convoy HX 84 by the German pocket battleship Admiral Scheer on 5 November 1940.

annakm
5th Mar 2018, 15:12
South Pacific
The Sound of Music
The Producers - especially Springtime for Hitler.

Serious choices would be, although already mention; Empire of the Sun,
Schindler’s List and my very favourite, Das Boot.

Private jet
5th Mar 2018, 15:22
"What did you do in the war Daddy?"

longer ron
5th Mar 2018, 15:47
Plenty to choose from, but thus far we've been spared a nomination for one of the worst "Ice Cold in Alex "....thankfully.

Not sure why anybody would think of 'Ice Cold' as being a bad film,it was well acted and highly entertaining and young Sylvia looked lovely :).

What would have made KnC's blood boil though was that in the original book it was the Sgt Major that got the Lootenant Nurse - but obviously that was not deemed acceptable in 1958 :) and so Capt Anson got the girl LOL.

Tankertrashnav
5th Mar 2018, 16:00
rog747 - I think your tastes are what might be described as catholic. Are there any WW2 films you don't like?

I see you include The English Patient. As I said to Mrs TTN when we walked out of the cinema - "well that's two hours of my life I won't ever get back". She had to restrain me from slashing my wrists half way through.

Awful!

(Oh and as for Pearl Harbor - that was a joke, right?)

rog747
5th Mar 2018, 16:08
Rog747 - glad to see "the Sea shall not have them" get a mention. This was the very first film of any genre I ever saw on TV, being screened on the day we got our first TV back in 1961. I was allowed to stay up late and watch the end, despite school in the morning.

Another of the Sunday afternoon set was San Demetrio, London, telling the story of the salvaging of the petrol tanker of that name after the attack on convoy HX 84 by the German pocket battleship Admiral Scheer on 5 November 1940.

San Demetrio, London

not seen this thanks - will look out for it - maybe on talking pictures TV freeview CH 81 sky 343

edit - i do recall this - they wanted to save the tanker full of oil which was so needed

rog747
5th Mar 2018, 16:14
rog747 - I think your tastes are what might be described as catholic. Are there any WW2 films you don't like?

I see you include The English Patient. As I said to Mrs TTN when we walked out of the cinema - "well that's two hours of my life I won't ever get back". She had to restrain me from slashing my wrists half way through.

Awful!

(Oh and as for Pearl Harbor - that was a joke, right?)

lol
well plenty i haven't mentioned especially those made in the 70's and 80's plus many US made films although from here to eternity perhaps should get a mention
i like the pacific war and would like to find some decent movies about it
well pearl harbor was one i thought i would like - the CGI was good and the nurses...

english patient i like for the photography - sort of out of africa - ish

i included ice cold in alex BTW

finfly1
5th Mar 2018, 16:16
Did not immediately notice anyone mentioning one of my favorites---


-



PATTON!!

Krystal n chips
5th Mar 2018, 16:25
:confused:


K & C - we have crossed swords on political matters many a time, but I have never been so shocked as at your description of Ice Cold in Alex as "one of the worst"! If you consider John Mills, Anthony Quayle, Sylvia Syms and Harry Andrews as "nondescript and not over talented actors" then I would like to hear who you do consider talented. Incidentally it was made in the same year as Bridge on the River Kwai, 1958 - a vintage year for WW2 films, and both of those are near the top of my list.



TTN.

We've had a difference of opinion over this before as well.

As I say, I consider all of the British films made about the war in this period to be nothing other than jingoism. Hackneyed plots / scripts / dialogue and equally ham acting, in particular from the first name on your list. His "character " acting was abysmal.

There was a series about the British film industry not too long ago and they more or less admitted it was a gravy train for a small pool of actors who obviously did very well given all they had to do was portray a stereotype of the character they were playing.

The ending to "Ice Cold in Alex" is dire....the bit where they are all in a bar drinking happily.

Anthony Quayle I will concede on however.

To be honest, I can't really think of any decent actors from that period.

goudie
5th Mar 2018, 17:58
I thought 'The Hill' was pretty good showing another aspect of what also happens during wars.
Harry Andrews was very good as the RSM and Ian Hendry as the psychopathic NCO
' From here to Eternity' was a brilliant film with first class actors and script.

Expatrick
5th Mar 2018, 17:59
I see you include The English Patient. As I said to Mrs TTN when we walked out of the cinema - "well that's two hours of my life I won't ever get back". She had to restrain me from slashing my wrists half way through.

Awful!

Well, it was aimed at a rather sophisticated audience!

Ethel the Aardvark
5th Mar 2018, 18:12
Bit of a sucker for Murphy’s War and Hannibal jones with Oliver Reed.
Cat 3 of course

Jack D
5th Mar 2018, 18:22
All quiet on the western front ( 1930 original )

Birdsong

Kilo 2 Bravo ( Kajaki)

Perhaps more in the anti war genre?

Jack D
5th Mar 2018, 18:33
Sorry didn’t RTFQ ! WW 11 only !
How about .. in a nautical vein
The cruel sea
Das Boot
Sink the Bismarck

tdracer
5th Mar 2018, 21:00
Great input, and I have few disagreements (outside of rog747's list - seriously dude, Pearl Harbor a great movie?), and a handful that I'm not familiar with that I'll need to look into.
Finfly1, I did mention Patton as a great movie, I just can't get over them portraying the Germans using Patton tanks - they didn't even bother to try to hide it with some add-ons.
Oh, another honorable mention for Cat 2) (or maybe 2.5), "Hell is for Hero's" with Steve McQueen (I'm a big McQueen fan).

BTW, I'm hoping someone out there can help me with this - I have a memory fragment of a WWII movie that watched on TV with my dad roughly 50 years ago (so it's likely made before 1965). Anyway, the fragment is two Allied tanks (probably American) hide in barn while a couple German tanks are approaching. As the lead German tank is coming up out of a ditch - exposing the unarmored belly - the Allied tanks both fire, causing the German to actually flip over backwards (rather unlikely outcome I'd think, but obviously a memorable scene). I have no idea what movie that might be, and I've watched dozens of old WWII movies over the years hoping to find that scene with no luck. Any one know what movie that might have been?

sidevalve
5th Mar 2018, 21:05
"Battle of the Bulge"?? (made in 1965)

spInY nORmAn
5th Mar 2018, 21:40
"Conspiracy" (2001). Depiction of the 1942 Wannsee conference where the "final solution" was hammered out. Disquieting, to say the least.

lomapaseo
5th Mar 2018, 21:55
How about Conspiracy?

I thought the acting was superb

piperboy84
5th Mar 2018, 22:10
1. Wound my heart with a monotonous languor.
2. au revoir monsieur,
good luck.
Thank you,
HALT!
3. Broadsword to Danny boy

Tankertrashnav
5th Mar 2018, 22:51
Well, it was aimed at a rather sophisticated audience!

Ouch !

I was teaching at the time, and at school the next day one of our teachers told me she had been in tears during the film.

I told her I had been too!

The ending to "Ice Cold in Alex" is dire....the bit where they are all in a bar drinking happily.


Oh come on - that's the best bit! So good I remember Carlsberg used it for a TV ad about 20 years ago.

layman
5th Mar 2018, 23:32
Just to add to the list:

Captain Correlli's Mandolin - light fiction with a serious undertone ...

To Hell and Back (Audie Murphy's 'autobiography')

And while I've both watched & read Stephen Ambrose's "Band of Brothers" be aware there is considerable fiction/exaggeration by him of Easy Company actions

vapilot2004
5th Mar 2018, 23:57
Fury - ex tanker from late 70,s so know something of armoured warfare, and no Tiger would go charging into an open field at oncoming enemy armour.


I'm not disagreeing with your knowledge of tank warfare tactics, Mr Mac, nor your characterization of the Tiger battle being farfetched, however, overall the movie received praise from many a former tanker as to its accuracy and the director went to great pains to recreate many of the battle scenes:

Though at first glance, Fury may seem as if it's just another World War II movie with a stellar cast (I mean, Brad Pitt, Shia Labeouf, Jon Bernthal, Logan Lerman, Michael Peña, and Scott Eastwood? Yes, please), don't write it off as that just yet: While yes, the movie deals with the much-employed setting of World War II, it's actually much more true-to-life than it seems — even if it's not based on one singular story. From Street Kings writer/director David Ayer, Fury is actually based on a collection of true stories from real-life army veterans who spent their time during World War II in tanks, just like Pitt's tank crew in the film...

...The result was extensive research about soldiers who were real "tankers" during the war. In Fury , Pitt portrays US Army Staff Sergeant Don "Wardaddy" Collier, who's the head of a tanker crew maneuvering a Sherman tank across Germany in a single day toward the end of the war. According to the Charlotte Observer , Pitt spoke with veterans about their experiences, including a now 90-year-old man named Ray Stewart who fought at the Battle of the Bulge as a tank gunner and driver.




http://i66.tinypic.com/543k1.png

In the following, an account of the author of Death Traps: The Survival of an American Armored Division in World War II., Lt Belton Cooper shared a lone tanker's fight with a German infantry unit and was the story that inspired the movie Fury:
“In the fighting around Hastenrath and Scherpenseel, the tankers, without adequate infantry support, performed almost superhuman acts of heroism to hold on throughout the night. It was reported that one of the tankers, in his tank on a road junction, was the only surviving member of his crew but was determined to hold his position at all costs.

The lone tanker had previously sighted his 76mm tank gun down the middle of the road. He depressed the mechanism slightly and loaded a 76mm HE [high explosive—used against non-armored targets]. As the Germans advanced in parallel columns along each side of the road, he fired. The HE shell hit the ground about 150 feet in front of the tank and ricocheted to a height of about three feet before exploding.

The shock took the Germans completely by surprise. The American tanker continued to fire all the HE he had as rapidly as possible, swinging the turret around to spray the German infantry, who were trying to escape into the fields on both sides of the highway. Loading and firing the gun by himself was extremely difficult, because he had to cross to the other side of the gun to load and then come back to the gunner’s position to fire.

After exhausting his HE and .30-caliber ammunition, he opened the turret and swung the .50 caliber around on the ring mount and opened fire again. He continued firing until all of his .50-caliber ammunition was exhausted, then he grabbed a .45 submachine gun from the fighting compartment and opened fire with this. After using all the ammunition from his Thompson and his pistol, he dropped back in the turret and closed the hatch.

He opened his box of hand grenades and grabbed one. When he heard German infantry climb onto the back of the tank, he pulled the pin, cracked the turret hatch slightly, and threw the grenade. It killed all the Germans on the back of the tank and those around it on the ground. He continued to do this until all of his hand grenades were gone; then he closed the hatch and secured it.

By this time, the German infantry unit apparently decided to bypass the tank. From the vicious rate of fire, they must have assumed they had encountered an entire reinforced roadblock. When our infantry arrived the next day, they found the brave young tanker still alive in his tank. The entire surrounding area was littered with German dead and wounded. This, to me, was one of the most courageous acts of individual heroism in World War II.”



kind regards, vap

meadowrun
6th Mar 2018, 00:11
Note hedge cutters, scavenged out of steel girders, welded on the tank prow.
Hastily improvised and installed by the engineers to get through the Normandy hedgerows.
Bit like a chopper wire cutter.

b1lanc
6th Mar 2018, 00:36
1) Dam Busters and Tora Tora Tora (if you expand to WWI, I'd also include Sergeant York and post WWII the Yangtze Incident), Battle of the River Platte (might be in category 2), 30 Seconds over Tokyo (some of the best low level flight footage IMHO), Patton
2) Malta Story, Appointment in London, BoB, Sahara (Bogart version)
3) The Purple Plain (if you like Gregory Peck, you should check this one out), A Guy Named Joe, Dark Blue World (Czech), The Night My Number Came Up, Run Silent Run Deep, Ill Met By Moonlight, The Blue Max (if you expand to WWI).

tdracer
6th Mar 2018, 01:12
"Battle of the Bulge"?? (made in 1965)
If that was in response to my query, no it wasn't "Battle of the Bulge" (not a very good movie IMHO). There is a scene where the American tanks shoot the German tanks in the underbelly as they move over a ridge (in that great Ardennes desert tank battle :ugh:), but that's not what I'm talking about.
Memory says it was a black and white movie, but it's been so long that I'm not sure I trust that part.
Piperboy - no argument - The Longest Day belongs on the list, I should have included it. I also really enjoy 'Where Eagles Dare" but definitely a cat 3) :E BTW, 'Kelly's Hero's" and "Where Eagles Dare" are in both in the same Blu-ray box set (my DVD of Kelly's Hero's somehow got damaged - when I went to Amazon to replace it, it was cheaper to get the box set with Where Eagles Dare than to buy Kelly's Hero's by itself)
VAP - I didn't particularly like Fury, but no question they went out of their way in the realism department. Saw a TV show about how they filmed the Sherman vs. Tiger battle scenes and it was impressive. They went so far as to locate a surviving Tiger that was used for some scenes (they had another, newer armored vehicle that was mocked up to look like a Tiger for some of the moving scenes).
The mini-series Pacific is pretty good - I wish my dad had still been around to watch it with me (his unit is depicted in some of the scenes on Guadalcanal) - but somehow I just don't find it as enjoyable as Band of Brothers.

Barksdale Boy
6th Mar 2018, 01:54
No one has mentioned The War Lover - memorable for a great line from Steve McQueen. He's walking through the grounds of King's College Cambridge with the love interest (presumably after a couple of pints in The Eagle) when she says "Flying must be wonderful - I mean breaking through the clouds and seeing the dawn!" Steve fixes her with his steeliest look and says "Dawns are for co-pilots".

westhawk
6th Mar 2018, 04:04
A little offbeat perhaps, but Hell in the Pacific with Lee Marvin and Tohiro Mifuni stands out in my memory as a rather interesting work of film art.

rog747
6th Mar 2018, 04:13
The Night My Number Came Up

i really like this film and have just seen it again on talking pictures CH 81 freeview but it is post war no?

India Four Two
6th Mar 2018, 04:34
I didn't particularly like Fury, but no question they went out of their way in the realism department.

I did like Fury. Not for the plot, which I thought was stupid, but because for the first time I had an inkling of what it must have been like for my Dad, who was a tank driver. I never found out anything from him, because he refused to talk about his experiences in Burma.

My favourite film is A Bridge Too Far. My least favourite is the recent Dunkirk movie. I would have walked out, except I was with my son, who had bought the tickets.

Who could make a war movie without mentioning the name of the enemy? What Spitfire pilot would ditch with the canopy closed!

Ogre
6th Mar 2018, 08:02
Three for the 3) category, "Von Ryans Express" (but mostly for Trevor Howard), "In which we serve" and "We dive at dawn".

"The Longest Day" is worth an evening with the beer and peanuts, with a definite all star cast to choose from.

Honourable mentions to "Operation Petticoat" and "Father Goose" for having Cary Grant in them.

Mr Mac
6th Mar 2018, 08:09
VAP
Not disagreeing about the "feel" of the thing (a bit like Memphis Bell in that aspect) it is just the incident with the Tiger I personally find far fetched, especially given the fact that the Germans were retreating at this stage of the conflict and husbanding resources, not to mention the very real threat from the allied air force for any movement in the open. I always remember the smell of churned earth and fumes from my short time with tanks, combined with the normal smells we humans tend to give off that become far more noticeable when closed up ! Long time ago for me now, and at least nobody was shooting live rounds at us.

Kind reagrds
Mr Mac

Hokulea
6th Mar 2018, 08:27
tdracer,

I can't remember such a scene in any movie I've seen. However, maybe it's worth a list a couple of movies I haven't seen that involve tanks in WWII, it may help narrow things down!

The Tanks Are Coming (1951)
Battleground (1949)
Tank Battalion (1958) - skimmed through this on youtube and didn't see what you described, but may have missed it

I rewatched the original Dunkirk movie a few years ago (the 1958 version) and although not the best it was much better than I remembered. I've yet to see the new movie.

vapilot2004
6th Mar 2018, 09:43
Cheers, Mr Mac. We can no doubt chalk up the Tiger battle scene to Hollywood's proclivity for grandiosity. I recall talking with a friend of my brother's who served during Desert Storm in an Abrams. When asked what the heat was like, he said it had air conditioning, not for the men, but the machine.

While the action occurs outside of the war, I enjoyed The Eichmann Show quite a lot, if only for the nostalgic view of how television was run. It was based on the true story of the live television coverage of the Eichmann trial.

Another true story, Men of Honor, is an interesting look into Navy divers from the POV of a black recruit. Robert De Niro and Cuba Gooding Jr both provide good performances.

While Hollywood once again took a great deal of artistic license, Defiance, another oft-missed but worthwhile film, is about the true story of the Jewish Bielski Brothers in Poland.

Thanks for the thread, tdracer. :ok:

johnfairr
6th Mar 2018, 10:06
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but Kirk Douglas in the WW1 film "Paths of Glory" was particularly harrowing, yet all the more believable for it.

ukc_mike
6th Mar 2018, 10:35
Nobody voting for "Theirs Is the Glory"?

BlankBox
6th Mar 2018, 10:48
...ya'll forgot Trapper John & crew...so sad.. :{

bentbanana
6th Mar 2018, 19:04
An interesting film not yet mentioned - "Sophie Scholl - The Final Days" about a German resistance movement called "Die Weisse Rose" during WW11.
An interesting insight from a German perspective, including comments from Hitlers´Secretary (Traudl Junge) at the beginning and the end.

Pontius Navigator
6th Mar 2018, 19:15
The Longest Day was noted for its star studded cast but what i particularly liked was they played the role cast and didn't seem to have star cameo roles.

In contrast Battle of the Bulge had parts bigged up for the star. I think Telly Savalas was grossly overacted with shades of Sgt Bilko.

wiggy
6th Mar 2018, 19:59
I’m going to side with those who mention “Stalingrad” ( yes, the German version) . That one came to mind again a couple of days ago when we flew over the top of Volgograd back towards europe...clear skies, good views of the city and river, there was snow on the ground of course and it was really hard not to think of and reflect on Von Paulus’s 6th Army trooping into captivity.....

tdracer
6th Mar 2018, 22:39
tdracer,
The Tanks Are Coming (1951)
Battleground (1949)
Tank Battalion (1958) - skimmed through this on youtube and didn't see what you described, but may have missed it

I rewatched the original Dunkirk movie a few years ago (the 1958 version) and although not the best it was much better than I remembered. I've yet to see the new movie.

It's not Battleground - I have it on DVD - a very good movie for it's time but it hasn't aged particularly well (for those who might not know - it follows a platoon from the 101st in the Battle of the Bulge).
I'll look into the other two.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with the new Dunkirk movie (especially if you have to pay to watch it - I'm pissed that I wasted my money).

Tankertrashnav
6th Mar 2018, 22:58
ukc mike - you mentioned Theirs is the Glory. An interesting choice and I suspect a lot on here may never have heard of it. Basically a re-enactment of the Arnhem part of Market Garden, using many of the original troops who had taken part.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theirs_Is_the_Glory

The film first came to my notice when I acquired one of these interesting souvenir "tickets" for the premiere, made from aluminium from crashed gliders.

An Aluminium Ticket ? johnwinter.net (http://www.johnwinter.net/jw/2017/10/an-aluminium-ticket/)

okiesteve
6th Mar 2018, 23:45
The Big Red One starring Lee MarvinA Midnight Clear and starring Ethan Hawke, Gary SiniseTwo little known but very good WW2 movies i think

b1lanc
7th Mar 2018, 00:32
The Night My Number Came Up

i really like this film and have just seen it again on talking pictures CH 81 freeview but it is post war no?
I believe it is, but I could never tell exactly how much post-war it was. Somebody posted he entire film on utube a couple of months back. Hadn't seen it in years.

Pinky the pilot
7th Mar 2018, 05:05
Dunno about Von Ryan's Express being a good movie. Only ever saw it once, back in the late 60's but even then I scoffed at the scene where a 'Messerschmitt' was shot down by a group of soldiers armed only with IIRC, MP38/40 (?) machine pistols.:hmm:

Standing by to be corrected if necessary.

crewmeal
7th Mar 2018, 11:15
Someone bought me the box set of allo allo. I couldn't stop laughing. However any movie with Jack Hawkins in will be a favourite along with Sink the Bismark.

Trossie
7th Mar 2018, 12:43
I agree with most of the films proposed so far.

My top few include:

The Dam Busters
Battle of Britain
A Bridge Too Far
Tora, Tora, Tora
Das Boot
Bridge over the River Kwai
Darkest Hour
(and more)

Kelly's Heroes deserves a very high place too!

I couldn't get too enthusiastic about The English Patient.
I have been advised by other family members to avoid watching Dunkirk as I would pick too many holes in it; from the trailers that I have seen and comparing it with books that I read about it as a kid (by 'Gun Buster', etc.) the cast were in almost pristine parade-ground condition compared with the 'tattered' and worn-out condition of the soldiers that I'd read about.

After comments on here I need to get to watch Ice Cold in Alex.

While not being movies but rather TV series, both 'Allo 'Allo and Dad's Army are excellent!

Some movies that haven't been mentioned but deserve a place for a very important aspect of World War II:
The Piainist
The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas
For Those I Loved

Buster11
7th Mar 2018, 14:30
A couple more come to mind, Grigori Chukhrai's Ballad of a Soldier and Kon Ichikawa's The Burmese Harp. It wasn't only the Anglophone countries that made excellent films on WW2 topics; some had a good deal more firsthand experience of the War than we did.

Highway1
7th Mar 2018, 16:11
Do.

Harry Andrews as a Warrant Officer is a natural. A work of art, cinematically. In that film and in others,

I suppose it helped that he spent 5 years in the Royal Artillery in WW2 - playing himself perhaps?

Tankertrashnav
7th Mar 2018, 17:19
some had a good deal more firsthand experience of the War than we did.

Tell that to my mum who got into the Andersen shelter after getting the rest of the family in about 20 seconds before a bomb destroyed their house in Caterham, during a 1940 raid on Kenley. 20 seconds later and there would have been no

Tankertrashnav!

dead_pan
7th Mar 2018, 18:43
Anyone mentioned Come and See yet? Peerless IMO

Fury wasn't half bad

Pontius Navigator
7th Mar 2018, 18:50
Was it Norman Hartnell in Dunkirk, the Battery Sgt Maj when John Mills pitched up?

Haven't seen mention of Bridge at Remargen. Always thought it was a typical Holywood film until we drove through Remargen last year and saw how faithful the plot was. Always remember Hans Christian Blech who survived The Longest Day before being demoted and posted to the Battle of the Bulge, and finally getting his commission back as a Captain. He was as prominent as an M48 tank pretending to being a Tiger :)

Highway1
8th Mar 2018, 12:07
Was it Norman Hartnell in Dunkirk, the Battery Sgt Maj when John Mills pitched up?


Norman Hartnell designed frocks for the Queen - perhaps you are thinking of William Hartnell the actor but he wasnt in Dunkirk. The RSM in the artillery battery scene was Warwick Ashton.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNWI3YjNmZGEtMDFiNy00ODc0LTg4ZjktOTQzMTJiOGQ4ZjY1XkEyXkFq [email protected]@._V1_.jpg

Pontius Navigator
8th Mar 2018, 12:40
Highway, thank you for the correction. Of actors of the period, while many may not have seen war service, they may have done National Service or had expert tutelage and certainly look the part.

My most memorable recollection was from Cockleshell Heroes, the beach scene, Trevor Howard turns away from Victor Maddern, takes two paces and salutes, returning Madden's salute which he knows was given.

Gordon17
8th Mar 2018, 13:08
William Hartnell played the sergeant in The Way Ahead.

MG23
8th Mar 2018, 15:13
I've forgotten the name, but we watched a Russian WWII movie recently about a group of 28 Soviet soldiers who pushed back an attack by a much larger number of Germans during the assault on Moscow. There's a '28' in the title, but I can't remember the rest.

From what I understand, the story was somewhat mythologised by Soviet propaganda, but the movie was well done. And it's one of the few movies where I've ever seen Russians shooting SVT-40s and anti-tank rifles (most of which seem to have ended up here in Canada after the end of the Soviet Union).

Jetex_Jim
8th Mar 2018, 16:30
William Hartnell played the sergeant in The Way Ahead.
Though he's possible more famous as the first Doctor Who.

Tankertrashnav
8th Mar 2018, 16:52
Also appeared in The Yangtse Incident, where he plays the part of a sailor who has to masquerade as an officer to fool the Chinese. Pre Dr Who days he was best known as CSM Bullimore in the TV series The Army Game.

tdracer
9th Mar 2018, 00:41
While looking for a DVD of 'Theirs is the Glory' (one of the movies I was previously unaware of, I stumbled on this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005MXQD4W/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

No idea of they have an equivalent set for other than Region 1, but it's worth a look - if nothing else something for those of us on the west side of the pond. The ten movies are:Appointment with Venus-Island Rescue; The Wind Cannot Read; Operation Amsterdam; Theirs is the Glory; The Day Will Dawn; Seven Thunders-The Beasts of Marseille; Unpublished Story; Two Thousand Women; Secret Mission; The Flemish Farm.

b1lanc
9th Mar 2018, 02:13
No idea of they have an equivalent set for other than Region 1,
This whole DVD region issue is absurd. There are many films and Brit TV shows that I've wanted to watch that simply are not available in the US in Region 1. Interestingly, there are a number of US films only available in Region 2. Some DVD player manufacturers (I bought mine from a local big-name store headquartered in Ark) have both PAL and NTSC built in and a quick code sequence on the remote makes them region free. I now happily enjoy Region 2 DVDs purchased from the UK and Australia.

West Coast
9th Mar 2018, 04:04
Leaving the boundaries of the thread momentarily, if you run out of WWII movies, I suggest the movie “Taking Chance”. Not a war story per se, rather the story of the journey home for one of the fallen from Iraq.

If it doesn’t choke you up, you’re lacking a soul.

Ethel the Aardvark
9th Mar 2018, 07:11
Mediterranio was a funny feel good movie of a bunch of Italian soldiers posted to a Greek island during ww2.
My old pop was a marine based at Eastney barracks in Portsmouth when they filmed cockle shell heroes he said it was laugh a minute with all of the actors antics.

Innominate
9th Mar 2018, 07:30
William Hartnell also played the eponymous NCO in Carry On Sergeant, although that hardly counts as a war film!

vapilot2004
9th Mar 2018, 08:11
Leaving the boundaries of the thread momentarily, if you run out of WWII movies, I suggest the movie “Taking Chance”. Not a war story per se, rather the story of the journey home for one of the fallen from Iraq.

If it doesn’t choke you up, you’re lacking a soul.

A great movie, and my favorite kind - one based on a true story.

ukc_mike
9th Mar 2018, 10:33
While looking for a DVD of 'Theirs is the Glory' (one of the movies I was previously unaware of.
I bought mine in the little museum next to the bridge in Arnhem. Might be rather a long trip for some people on this forum though.

Tankertrashnav
9th Mar 2018, 21:10
While looking for a DVD of 'Theirs is the Glory' (one of the movies I was previously unaware of, I stumbled on this:

If you click on the link I gave earlier when I mentioned the souvenir ticket there is a link to the complete film on You Tube

An Aluminium Ticket ? johnwinter.net (http://www.johnwinter.net/jw/2017/10/an-aluminium-ticket/)

Effluent Man
9th Mar 2018, 21:28
Battle of Britain will always be special for me. One day in June 1968 I had bunked off school to sunbathe on the beach. I heard the sound of approaching aircraft and the whole caboodle came over in company with a B25 Mitchell being used to film them.

Apart from the flying scenes though my favourite scene was the one of Ralph Richardson meeting the German ambassador and being mortified that he lost his temper.

FullOppositeRudder
10th Mar 2018, 06:46
I have led a very sheltered life. I've only seen three or four.

In order of appearance on the rather grotty screen in our local town institute:

The Desert Fox - Too young to recall much about it. My Dad liked it.
Reach for the Sky - 5 stars
The Dam Busters - 5 Stars
The One That Got Away - 4 stars

And them much later:

The Battle of Britain - 10 stars, (5 for the film and another 5 for Susannah York - (by other standards, a perfect 10 if ever there was one... :D))

I've even bought the DVD.

FOR

rogerg
10th Mar 2018, 08:33
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/rogerg1/susannah_york_battle_of_britain1%20-%20Copy.jpg (http://s1184.photobucket.com/user/rogerg1/media/susannah_york_battle_of_britain1%20-%20Copy.jpg.html)
Here 'Tis!!.


Sorry, I have been photo shopped. How do you post picture now?

goudie
10th Mar 2018, 09:44
BEagle will be along very soon!

Pontius Navigator
10th Mar 2018, 12:59
Desert Fox is available on YoyTube though it stopped after a few minutes when I watched it. The opening action scene was good with a realistic stutter of Sten guns and no Bollywood's explosive bullets.

EEngr
10th Mar 2018, 15:01
But I have high hopes for The Last Battle

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5138232/

The book (by Harding) was pretty good, although more of a historical account than a dramatization. If done well, the story is pretty interesting.

Heathrow Harry
10th Mar 2018, 15:03
"ice cold in Alex" surely.................

ChrisVJ
10th Mar 2018, 19:51
tdracer

Many years ago we were moving house and I found a silver tankard engraved "The Flemish Farm" and my mother said it had belonged to my father who had flown aircraft for a film company during the war. He was killed in 1945. Somehow it stayed with my stuff through many moves, eventually to Canada. I was going through the stuff we had just thrown into plastic tubs when the tankard appeared again so I looked up the name on the Internet and found out it who the distributor was.

I called them and they very kindly sent me a copy in N. American format. I can't actually see my father in the film but it does have interest.

GLIDER 90
10th Mar 2018, 20:10
Mine would be the Dambusters.

Chronus
10th Mar 2018, 20:12
Catch 22 said it all for me.

Super VC-10
10th Mar 2018, 21:03
I quite enjoyed "Is Paris Burning?" Really want to see Downfall.

hiflymk3
10th Mar 2018, 21:24
I quite enjoyed "Is Paris Burning?" Really want to see Downfall.

Coincidence, Mrs h was watching Is Paris Burning? on dvd early this evening, I was busy pottering so only caught bits. One bit I did catch about an hour into the film was an Intermission as they used to have in cinemas. On a dvd? It went on for a few minutes and the film resumed. I did suggest I walk in with a torch and tray of ice cream but Mrs h preferred a glass of wine.

I thoroughly recommend Downfall.

Dan Gerous
11th Mar 2018, 11:48
Well for the Dambusters fans...

https://www.thedambusters75.co.uk/

Highway1
12th Mar 2018, 00:06
Interesting that in the past year 2 films have been released about the assassination of Heydrich in Prague. First we had 'Anthropoid' starring Cillian Murphy (Dunkirk) and now 'The Man With The Iron Heart' starring Jason Clarke (Terminator Genesis).

I watched TMWTIH and thought it very good but haven't yet managed to catch Anthropoid

galaxy flyer
12th Mar 2018, 00:40
Just watched “Darkest Hour”; very good and I admit there was some fiction introduced, but well done. It’d be interesting to hear if Churchill’s first couple of weeks were that depressing.


GF

Tankertrashnav
12th Mar 2018, 00:43
A much earlier film about Heidrich's assassination called Operation Daybreak was made in 1975, with the ever sinister Anton Diffring playing Heidrich.

Trossie
12th Mar 2018, 13:27
Just watched “Darkest Hour”; very good and I admit there was some fiction introduced, but well done. It’d be interesting to hear if Churchill’s first couple of weeks were that depressing.


GF
They were! Churchill became PM on the day that the Germans invaded the Low Countries and just over two weeks later the British Army was being evacuated back to Britain with their wrecked equipment all left behind. Ambassador Kennedy was sending messages back to Washington that Britain was finished. Depressing and alone.

galaxy flyer
12th Mar 2018, 14:35
Trossie,

I knew the history, intellectually, if you will; but the visuals of near defeat by Lord Halifax, the doddering nature of Churchill at times made it much more real emotionally. That and the ever present whiskey. The movie didn’t explain the change of heart by King George at all, a lapse in my mind.

It was all emotionally striking how alone Churchill was within his War Cabinet and Imperial General Staff, his decision to evacuate Dunkirk was his alone. Not only was Britain alone, but Churchill very nearly was, as depicted. I have the companion book on the way.

GF

hiflymk3
12th Mar 2018, 15:35
Anyone mentioned Patton Lust for Glory yet? I cannot comment on its full accuracy but George C. Scott and Karl Malden do a good turn at Patton and Bradley.

Trossie
15th Mar 2018, 08:08
GF, Read James Holland's book "The Battle of Britain: Five Months That Changed History; May-October 1940". He feels that the day that the Battle of Britain effectively started was 10 May 1940 as that was the day that the Germans invaded the Low Countries. It was the day that Churchill became Prime Minister. Holland covers Churchill's lonely task at the time very well. (It also give excellent background information on the Battle of Britain. Another good read is Boris Johnson's "The Churchill Factor: How One Man Made History" which also covers that period, and the person, well. Alone he managed to overcome the supporters of Lord Halifax and Ambassador Kennedy. The world was lucky to have had Churchill in the right place at the right time.

RedhillPhil
18th Mar 2018, 16:23
Has "Das Boot" had a mention? Definitely one of the top ones.

flash8
18th Mar 2018, 16:38
Come and See.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_and_See

A 1985 Russian film on WWII set in Belarus, well worth watching with subtitles for non Russian speakers.

Consistently voted as one of the top war dramas of all time, rated 8.2 on imdb, ranked number 24 in Empire magazine's "The 100 Best Films Of World Cinema", additionally is placed on the wikipedia article "List of films considered the best" (never mind WWII) and having viewed it a few times I can see why, quite a masterpiece.

Not however for the faint of heart.

tdracer
14th May 2018, 07:10
Just watched “Darkest Hour”; very good and I admit there was some fiction introduced, but well done. It’d be interesting to hear if Churchill’s first couple of weeks were that depressing.
GF

Resurrecting an older thread here, but I finally got a chance to watch 'Darkest Hour' - very good movie, but raises the question I often have after watching such a movie: How historically accurate is it? Made somewhat more difficult in this case since it's not something I'm very familiar with. So, how much was accurate, and how much was 'Hollywood'?
(BTW, I saw a bit on TV earlier today Ike Eisenhower condemned "Battle of the Bulge" when it came out in 1965 because it was so historically inaccurate).
Went on Amazon recently with the idea of buying a DVD of 'Dambusters' - it doesn't appear to be currently available in Region 1 format...

jolihokistix
14th May 2018, 08:53
The Beast of War (1988) may have already been mentioned, about a Russian tank crew in Afghanistan, but I have not been back through the thread to check.

Harley Quinn
14th May 2018, 09:18
Downfall for me, the sense of incessant despondency builds throughout the film and as someone else mentioned, it must have the record for overdubbing.

Here's my favourite, despite the spelling:

Hitler hears the Harriers have been scrapped

Xray4277
18th Aug 2018, 19:00
TTN.

We've had a difference of opinion over this before as well.

As I say, I consider all of the British films made about the war in this period to be nothing other than jingoism. Hackneyed plots / scripts / dialogue and equally ham acting, in particular from the first name on your list. His "character " acting was abysmal.

There was a series about the British film industry not too long ago and they more or less admitted it was a gravy train for a small pool of actors who obviously did very well given all they had to do was portray a stereotype of the character they were playing.

The ending to "Ice Cold in Alex" is dire....the bit where they are all in a bar drinking happily.

Anthony Quayle I will concede on however.

To be honest, I can't really think of any decent actors from that period.

Er...Jack Hawkins? Watch the scene in "The Cruel Sea" where he has to choose between rescuing some men in the water or depth-charging the U-Boat which is underneath them.. He hardly says anything but his face shows it all. He is the man on the spot, he has to decide, no-one is going to decide for him or let him off the hook. Absolute class. And one of the very best war films (or films about war) ever made. Very true to the book too, which is rare.

Xray4277
18th Aug 2018, 19:10
Stalingrad - the German version

Film I keep coming back to watching is the Battle of Britain. It just had everything, great aircraft, real dogfights, great music, humour and above all Larry Olivier doing a fantastic Hugh Dowding.

I saw it at the cinema with my father when it was first released. Great in it s day but looking a bit dated now IMO. Too many late-60s anachronisms (haircuts especially!) and the flying sequences are not as good as they seemed at the time. Much prefer 'Dunkirk' (2017) for ultra-realistic dogfighting scenes.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
26th Aug 2018, 15:41
Not exactly a WWII film, but then again it is too

The Reader

flash8
26th Aug 2018, 23:46
Does "Ice Cold in Alex" count? Utterly superb movie.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/1000x796/ice_cold_in_alex_1958_003_john_mills_sylvia_syms_anthony_qua yle_11bccb1e869f87a1d14249aea3afc6405d84efee.jpg

Not sure Sylvia Sims beauty was ever bettered.

Chuck Glider
27th Aug 2018, 06:41
Not exactly a WWII film, but then again it is too

The Reader
Agree...although IMO the final scene should have been left on the cutting room floor.

Pontius Navigator
27th Aug 2018, 06:49
Chuck, it might have been a personal dig at brand new officers and Provost ones at that.

Uncle Fred
27th Aug 2018, 18:45
Flash

You might have seen, over the past year or two, a Russian movie entitled "The Dawns Here are Quiet." Eight parts to the series if I recall. Superb production quality. Story about a Sergeant left well behind the lines to command an anti-aircraft battery that is now manned by female recruits who are taking up the slack so the men can be sent to the front.

I was surprised at just how good this was--easily in the top ten for me re. war films. More than worth the time.