RAF Scampton?

[GLIDER 90]

Hello All

Anyone know when the Vulcans were at RAF Scampton the dispersal bay numbers, I know of Bravo, Echo, dispersal but not the bay numbers of that era. I know it's a bit sad!! but being a Vulcan Nut I'm interested in anything about the V Force. I know in Craig Bulmans book it showed you the the layout of RAF Waddington during the 1970's.

Regards
Glider 90

[Wensleydale]

Why not ask them yourself? RAF Scampton Heritage Centre is [email protected]

[BEagle]

The premier Scampton squadron used Foxtrot, south of the RW at the western end of the aerodrome - easily visible from Tillbridge Lane (and the AMQs, much to their chagrin at times!).

F25 and F26 were closest to the taxiway parallel with the RW, with 26 closer to RW05. F23 and F24 were parallel to F25/26, with F23 to the west. F27 was aligned perpendicular to the taxiway west of F23/26; F28 was similarly aligned to the east of F24/25. A central entrance gave access to Foxtrot if F27 or F28 was occupied.

We were always advised of the allocated bay number after landing.

[Pontius Navigator]

BEagle, interesting given that each dispersal had 4 bays. Did they create extra spots when 9 and 35 returned to UK?

[pr00ne]

PN,

Weren’t all of the V-force bases originally built with 24 dispersals, enough for 8 each for 3 Squadrons?
I remember this coming up in a post years ago when someone enquired about centralised servicing when all squadron aircraft were allocated to Engineering Wing and the squadrons then consisted of nothing but aircrew.

When 35 returned from Cyprus, and when centralised servicing was abolished and the squadrons acquired their own aircraft again (mid 70’s?) how did 27, 35, 617 and the OCU fit into Scampton’s 4 hangars (1 for Eng Wing/ASF)?

[Timelord]

Small point of detail but didn’t 35 go to Waddo, IX to Scampton?

[esscee]

Other way round. 35 to Scampton and 9 to Waddo.

[Pontius Navigator]

Curiously Wiki entry for Scampton makes no mention of 35 Sqn though it is shown in 35s entry.

The new RAF website has yet to add any meaningful historical detail.

A further detail, with the change of magvar Scampton is shown as 04/22.

[ian16th]

PN,

Weren’t all of the V-force bases originally built with 24 dispersals, enough for 8 each for 3 Squadrons?

At Marham, when 214 became 'operational' as a tanker Sqdn, and 49 were posted in to make up the 3 Sqdn bomber wing, there was no need to build any additional bays.

The only change was the 214 moved from their dispersal that was the nearest one to the Bomb Dump, to a dispersal that was nearly in Swaffham.

49 took over the dispersal next to the bomb dump.

[Pontius Navigator]

PN,

Weren’t all of the V-force bases originally built with 24 dispersals, enough for 8 each for 3 Squadrons?

No, they all got the runway extension but the infrastructure was actually designed to meet the force plan - strange really :).

Hard to see it all on Google Earth but Finningley only had a few dispersals with most aircraft outside the hangars. OTOH the mess was enlarged to accommodate the additional crews under training. The other 1 Gp bases all had 24 dispersals = 80 Vulcan.

The 3 Gp bases, apart from Marham, were two sqn stations although this is not clear on Google. Wyton only seems to have 8. This 2-Sqn setup was a disadvantage when the 3 Vulcan sqns replaced 10/15 at Cottesmore as the mess was too small.

[H Peacock]

aerodrome

What an amazing word; much underused!

[ZH875]

...Wyton only seems to have 8
One set of H pans is cunningly disguised by building the donuts car park over them.

[morton]

BEAGLE. The premier Scampton squadron used Foxtrot, south of the RW at the western end of the aerodrome.
Did you really mean 1066 Squadron? :D Or was there another squadron there before them? Here is a Hastings on F dispersal as seen from under the wing of an immaculate XL319. Similarly an immaculate TG511 on E dispersal alongside XL319 taken at the same time – about August 1974 and all buffed up for a Royal visit as I recall.

[NRU74]

The only change was the 214 moved from their dispersal that was the nearest one to the Bomb Dump, to a dispersal that was nearly in Swaffham.

When 214 became a Victor Squadron the dispersal was nicknamed ‘Beachamwell Static’ (by Crossie I think)

[aw ditor]

HP

"Aerodrome", still much used in the current Air Navigation Order 2016, and its predecessors back to Pontius'.

[Finningley Boy]

It's incredible to compare the effort to present an adequate defence posture back in the 1950s compared with anything today. Finningley, Gaydon, Scampton, Wyton, Waddington, Cottesmore, Marham, Honington, Wittering and Coningsby all subject to a massive expansion plan and after four entire new purpose built airfields, all of an elaborate advanced design, had just been built in West Germany, all at a time when rationing was yet to finish. Its often said that the past is another country, I'd say more like another planet! Of course needless to say, the A15 running along side Scampton had to be rerouted with a bulge in its hitherto straight run in order to accommodate the lengthened runway, wonder what it would be like trying to cut through the beaurocracy of today in such short order to do that.:ugh:

FB:)

[The Oberon]

Just as an aside, the curve in the A15 was supposed to be the reason for the NAAFI being called "The Flying Bowman", the bowstring representing the original A15 and the stave showing the new bends.

The best dispersal was the one near the back gate onto the B1398, Line Eng. was also in the same place. It meant that it when on night shift, at supper time, it was easy to nip out for a swift half at "Mr. Bells"

[Wensleydale]

Just as an aside, the curve in the A15 was supposed to be the reason for the NAAFI being called "The Flying Bowman", the bowstring representing the original A15 and the stave showing the new bends.
The RAF Scampton crest has a bow with an arrow representing the runway. I would imagine that the NAAFI was named for this badge.


http://www.terrane.co.uk/prodimg/MG1647_1_Large.jpg

[staircase]

I remember one of the old ‘bomber boy’ captains convincing one of the less intellectually gifted co-pilots, that the only reason the runway had been able to be extended north east was because the Romans, had for some reason, made a miscalculation in the directional orientation of Ermine Street at that point.

Mind you, the same captain failed to convince us that the only reason the Nazis had not used a U- Boat to shell the Lincolnshire airfields during the war, was the height restriction of the bridge over the Trent at Gainsborough.

Oh, such times spent at Happy Hour on a Friday evening!

[GLIDER 90]

Morning All

Thanks very much for the replys, much appreciated.

Regards
Glider 90

[pr00ne]

It's incredible to compare the effort to present an adequate defence posture back in the 1950s compared with anything today. to do that

FB:)

FinningleyBoy,

Not so sure that it was as straight forward and positive as you make out! Bear in mind that this construction programme was started in the early to mid 50's when the only means of delivering the 10,000lb monstrosities which were the atomic weapons of the time required large 4 jet bombers that simply would not have been able to operate from the tired and run down wartime airfields which is what the RAF had at the time. There were no other delivery options available then, so when the Labour Government of the day took the decision that the UK would be an atomic power, and later Churchill took the same decision about the hydrogen bomb, we had no option but to build the 10 Class A airfields that you mention.

At the time the USAF were constructing even more and larger airfields in the UK to house SAC forward deployed as the B-47 could not reach the Soviet Union from the US, and this programme dwarfed the RAF one.

And it was not all rosy and positive, there was a cost to the building of these 10 airfields, three V-Bombers and the Atomic and later Hydrogen bombs. This cost was the disbandment of the entire operational strength of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force, (20 fighter squadrons and many many more Fighter Control Units and Royal Auxiliary Air Force Regiment LAA squadrons) a reduction of over a half in flying squadrons in Germany, two thirds in Fighter Command, the axing of the RNVR flying squadrons, the disbandment of every single RAF Regiment squadron in Germany (over 30) and the complete abandonment of the conventional ground attack and day fighter role in Germany.

And it didn't last that long. The B1 Victors were gone by 1964, the Valiants by 1965 and the B1 Vulcans by 1967. The Thor force and the Mk 1 Bloodhound squadrons (to be the future core of the Royal Air Force) were all gone by 1963 without replacement.

And is it such a contrast to today? The V-Force peaked at 144 bombers, the UK F-35 force will peak at 138. We have four Trident submarines and a replacement class under design and development, the UK Cold war fighter force shrank to a low of 5 Lightning squadrons at the height of the cold war, we have 5 equivalent Typhoon squadrons going to 7 or 8 and we have two huge 65,000 ton aircraft carriers.

Looking back with rose tinted spectacles can be extremely misleading.

[Pontius Navigator]

pr00ne, a good summary but it could also explain the Hastings and Beverley in Service too. Re Bloodhound, remember the BH2 a much more capable missile.

[Finningley Boy]

pr00ne,

I'm fully aware of the impact of Duncan Sandys policy on Fighter Defence in 1957 and the subsequent run down. There were many reductions from that time forward, all but one of the airfields taken over my the RAF in Germany, at the end of the war, were handed back by 1961. A period of reduction followed a burst of expansion you might say. Ever since the overall trend has been reduction often not driven by prioritising military concerns. I'm well aware also that the peak of about 10 Bloodhound Squadrons reached by 1963 were down to a single squadron in 1965. These were the promised replacements for the missing fighter squadrons. The leap in performance, as you would certainly know, between the type of first generation fighters the Auxilliary squadrons had and that expected by the early 1960s wad indeed a trade off. But the intention was to remove all day fighter squadrons anyway. pr00ne, I'm not looking at the past through rose tinted specs, I think you're a bit to over sensitive to what you think are sweeping opinions with a right wing lean sometimes. I was merely looking back a t the extent of 'development' back at the time and under the economic circumstances. The 144 V-bombers were all delivered in short order, how long do you think til the 138th F-35 is delivered? The two aircraft carriers we're only getting because the contractual obligation the government of the day entered into ensured that cancellation would always be the costliest option. There is nothing from the last 28 years which compares with anything like the V-Force plan.

FB:(

[Pontius Navigator]

FB, the rapidity of the build up of the V Force was to meet the threat of the time. The Lincoln was truly obsolete and the V bombers were two generations ahead. The step change, Buccaneer, GR1, GR4, Typhoon, to F35, are not, I submit as big a step taking decades compared with a decade. The threat from the 1980s has evolved more slowly.

[Finningley Boy]

Yes quite PN, I was merely reflecting upon the effort at brand new construction and revolutionary development in such a short space of time together with the rather unhealthy state of the economy. pr00ne points to things like the wind up (or down) of the auxiliary air force, well ok but this was against a back drop of a much larger and in depth capable force. The assets to which pr00ne refers to in the present are upgrades which have been in the pipe line since I still had dark hair and so did Tony Blair! What I find astonishing about today is, the various upgrades and improvements probably squeeze a lot more wedge out of the treasury for their over run over due delivery. And pr00ne is slightly off target comparing five Lightning squadrons with five Typhoon squadrons, the former were the pure interceptor force of the UK until 1969, the latter are almost the entire RAF air combat capability today. They are if you like, the V-Force, offensive air support, Tactical Air Superiority, anti-ship and armed reconnaissance, certainly will be by March next year when the last of the old Tonkas get loaded on the back of the scrap collectors low loader. How is the USMC getting along with the Harriers we gave them?:}

FB:)