'Vampire and Venom Boys'

[Steve Bond]

Provisionally planned for publication in 2020, I am now starting to research for another in the 'Boys' book series. The search is now on for anyone who flew or maintained any variants of the Vampire, Sea Vampire, Venom or Sea Venom.

So, if you did and would like to contribute your stories for 'Vampire and Venom Boys' please do get in touch! If you would prefer to contact me directly, please send me a private message here and I will give you my email address.

Many thanks in anticipation.

Steve

[AncientAviator]

There can't be many of us left ?
What are you looking for Steve ?
Rob, trained on Vampires, flew Sea Venoms

[Martin the Martian]

At the rate these books come out I look forward to the release of Chipmunk Boys and Pembroke Boys soon.

[Steve Bond]

Hi Rob,

I am looking for your memories basically. What were they like to fly, where/when were you flying them, memorable events, incidents, deployments, exercises, plus photographs if you have them.

Private message sent

Steve

[ian16th]

Is this resricted to a/c in UK service?

I am aware of at least one SAAF Vampire pilot, still around.

[Steve Bond]

No, not restricted to UK.

[Danny42C]

Here's one for starters (from my Post in 2013):

"I had an unnerving experience in a Vampire one day. It must have been in summer, for when I closed and sealed the canopy it got uncomfortably warm, and I fully opened the "eyeball" fresh air inlet up on the left. Half-way through take-off, I'd just got the nosewheel off when something small hit me hard on the cheek, and it was followed by more tiny missiles. I hastily pulled my goggles down (this was long before helmets and visors); we were far too far down to stop and I took it round for a quick circuit and down. Downwind the fusillade had stopped, but looking in my lap I found two or three small BA bolts.

I climbed out, the cockpit was checked: there were more of them all over the floor and of course others could have gone anywhere in the aircraft. The Vampire was put u/s at once. Maintenance records were checked and the whole sad story came to light.

It seemed that an instrument technician had recently done a job in the cockpit, changed an instrument or something of the sort. To do it, he had taken a little cardboard box of these BA bolts, opened it and found there was no flat surface to put the open box - except that the tiny thing could just fit in the open "eyeball". Of course the inevitable happened: he upended the box and the whole lot went down into the air duct.

He now considered the situation. If he reported the occurrence, half the front end of the aircraft would have to be unshipped to retrieve the bolts, and he would not be Chiefy's blue-eyed boy. On the other hand, the bolts were wholly contained in the ducting and could not possibly escape to do any harm. They could stay down there (wherever they had got to) for the life of the aircraft and no one be any the wiser. And of course, they were "C" stores (consumables); he did not have to account for them.

He took the logical way out and kept his mouth shut. It was just his hard luck that the gale that went through the duct when the aircraft got under way was enough to convert the bolts into the swarm of projectiles which had attacked me. He was for the High Jump: I do not know what happened to him....."

Danny.

[Steve Bond]

Thanks Danny, always best to own up! Where did this happen?

[Danny42C]

Steve (#8),

RAF Thornaby ca 1953: on 608 (Auxiliary) Squadron R.Aux.A.F. I was a regular on a ground tour there; 608 let me fly their aircraft to keep my hand in as I'd flown Vampires III and V on 20 Squadron previously).

When the Vampire lands, the tail-pipe is very hot and evaporates all the last drops of AVTUR when shut down on the line. The erks used to put their (cold) HAFFI meat pies in the pipe to warm up.. Checking the pipe for pies and Cornish Pasties was part of the walk-round for the next pilot.

Happy Days! Danny.

[Steve Bond]

Thanks Danny, love the pies story!

[RetiredBA/BY]

There can't be many of us left ?
What are you looking for Steve ?
Rob, trained on Vampires, flew Sea Venoms

Knock it off, some of us who flew on Vampires (T11 at Swinderby) aren,t THAT old!

[brakedwell]

Knock it off, some of us who flew on Vampires (T11 at Swinderby) aren,t THAT old!

I'm beginning to feel old :sad:

[pr00ne]

Who came up with that silly "boys" title?

Ridiculous!

[Dick Whittingham]

After the T-Bird in Canada in '53 the Vampire came as a bit of a shock. After learning my trade on 605sqn I rejoined in ' 57. Flew various marks. IIRC, 5,9,10,11 & 22. Many a tale there.

Dick

[jindabyne]

For once, I agree prOOne. Naff. Content's OK though.

[rcsa]

I have a couple of mates in Zimbabwe who were still flying Vampires in Rhodesian Air Force service as late at 1980. Bill Sykes flew the Vampire that was camera ship for the aerial sequences of the film about Jack Malloch's Spit - the Spit (and Jack) was lost during filming, sadly. That was in 1982, I think. PM me if you want me to pass on a contact.

[Steve Bond]

Dick Whittingham and rcsa - thanks very much, private messages sent.

[POBJOY]

Dick W What was the 'shock' after the T33 !!! I though the T bird was a tandem dual version of the Shooting Star so quite a veteran.

[NutLoose]

This might help you

Jever Steam Laundry - Home Page (http://www.rafjever.org/index.htm)

[Steve Bond]

Thanks NutLoose

[Steve Bond]

The "boys" title was suggested by a Lightning pilot closely involved in the first of the series, and successive titles having followed the same format have simply stuck with it.

[Steve Bond]

Thanks Lee

[MrBernoulli]

Steve Bond, I don't know how to get hold of him directly, but author Frederick Forsyth flew Vampires in the RAF in the late 1950s, so he might be worth approaching for some tales?

Many here will know that, quite apart from Forsyth's many best-selling novels, he also wrote a great short story, The Shepherd (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shepherd), about an RAF pilot flying a Vampire from Germany to England on a dark and cold Christmas Eve, 1957.

Forsyth's page (https://www.penguin.co.uk/authors/frederick-forsyth/1000661/) on the Penguin Books website page states "He lives in Buckinghamshire, England." Perhaps an approach to Penguin Random House UK (https://www.penguinrandomhouse.co.uk/about-us/offices/) could eventually put you in touch with Forsyth? He is almost 80 years old now, so don't wait too long to make contact!

Additionally, Steve, there is Nigel Lamb (8-time British Unlimited Aerobatic Champion, 4-time British Freestyle Champion, 2014 Red Bull Air Race World Champion!) who survived a crash landing in a Rhodesian Air Force Vampire FB9 (no ejection seat ...), in 1977, following an engine fire warning. That has got be a tale worth re-telling, if Nigel will agree. And perhaps he will also have other stories from his time flying the Vampire in Rhodesia. :ok:

You might try contacting Nigel through his website (http://www.nigellamb.com/contact) or Twitter (https://twitter.com/nigellamb?lang=en).

[NutLoose]

Haynes Wessex book...... COOL

[Steve Bond]

Thanks for the heads up on Frederick Forsyth. Someone else did mention that, so I am hopeful of making contact.

I know Nigel Lamb and have spoken to him in the past on this topic, and will be picking up those threads again.

[brakedwell]

Freddie was a National Service u/t pilot. He did his Vampire course at Worksop, just down the road from us lot at Swinderby.

[Danny42C]

Martin the Martian (#3),

One for your Pembroke book, then:

I was air-trafficing at Leeming around 1970. A Pembroke took off from Catterick (Still an acive airfield then), and immediately announced an emergency: they had lost an engine. As we were only a few miles South of them, and as they were heading in our direction anyway, they chose us, we cleared the circuit and they landed safely on one on our 16.

The Nav came up to the Tower to "make his number". "What's with the donk?", I asked, "Lose oil pressure?" ... "Lost a pot!" he replied. It was true, a whole cylinder had blown off the Leonides: the projectile had gone through both (?) cabin walls without hurting anyone.

The 'punch line"? It was carrying the CinC of Maintenance Command back to his HQ! ... How we laughed!

[Mike Gallafent]

Joined 16 Sqn at Celle in June 53 then equipped with Vampire V. Venoms began arriving in 1954. Somebody, in their wisdom, chose to swap the functions of the R/T and R/P switches. Habits die hard and luckily concrete headed rockets landed in field.

Re the Leonides. In Borneo on Twin Pins always carried an apple. Numerous strip sorties could use up safety caps on engine starts. Apple stuffed up exhaust pipe sufficed to gain back pressure...

[Mogwi]

You might find that Navywings at Yeovilton have a contact for FF.

[threeputt]

My late Father-in-Law, Flt Lt Geoff Cocks, was a QFI at Swinderby in the mid 50's.
3P

[brakedwell]

My late Father-in-Law, Flt Lt Geoff Cocks, was a QFI at Swinderby in the mid 50's.
3P

Fg off G Cocks was not my instructor when I was a student on 111 course at Swinderby in 1956/7, but I did fly with him a few times on instrument and handling checks.

[threeputt]

Brakedwell
Yes Fg Off at the time! Eventually became an A1QFI(FW) and A1QHI(RW), which I doubt many other pilots ever achieved. Retired as a Flt Lt then went on to fly civilian RW, mainly on Jet Rangers. Died in 2012 aged 84.
3P

[brakedwell]

3P
I remember Geoff being a very nice person. Always calm and approachable, he was one of the younger instructors on our flight.

[NutLoose]

Martin the Martian (#3),

One for your Pembroke book, then:

I was air-trafficing at Leeming around 1970. A Pembroke took off from Catterick (Still an acive airfield then), and immediately announced an emergency: they had lost an engine. As we were only a few miles South of them, and as they were heading in our direction anyway, they chose us, we cleared the circuit and they landed safely on one on our 16.

The Nav came up to the Tower to "make his number". "What's with the donk?", I asked, "Lose oil pressure?" ... "Lost a pot!" he replied. It was true, a whole cylinder had blown off the Leonides: the projectile had gone through both (?) cabin walls without hurting anyone.

The 'punch line"? It was carrying the CinC of Maintenance Command back to his HQ! ... How we laughed!

I was up at Gut doing an engine change on a Jag next to a 60 Sqn Pembroke that had also thrown a pot and the side was black with oil, it was on a medivac and had the patient on board if my memory serves me correctly.
I remember the incident because the guy working up on the wing asked his mate to throw up a screwdriver which he did, the guy didn't manage to catch it and it disappeared down into the depths of the open oil tank. They were there fishing for it for hours.

[Steve Bond]

Contact now made with Frederick Forsyth I'm happy to say.

[NutLoose]

May interest you Steve

https://www.eos-magazine-forum.com/showthread.php?45380-Vampire-A2A&p=423122#post423122

[Steve Bond]

Superb photograph of a lovely Vampire T.11. Is it still up for sale I wonder?

[glad rag]

Who came up with that silly "boys" title?

Ridiculous!

Go on then pr0ne knock one out for us!

[NutLoose]

Meteor has probably gone to the US, don't know about the Vampire.

[Steve Bond]

Dick Whittingham, would love to hear your stories. Please check your private messages. Thanks.

[Steve Bond]

Dick Whittingham, please respond to my private message, thanks.

[Alex Whittingham]

If you mean my father, I'm afraid he died about three weeks ago, see thread on Gp Capt TH (Dick) Whittingham. Can I help, though?

The 'shock' was how rudimentary the Vampire was compared to the T33

[Steve Bond]

I gosh I am sorry to hear that Alex. He sent me a message suggesting he could help with stories about his time on Vampires and I followed up with an e mail asking him to contact me again. My sincere condolences.

[RifRaf3]

One of the most memorable features of the Vampire T11 (or Mk35 Australian), apart from its painful discomfort, was that you could fly it quite well without using the control column. The pitch trim wheel was very sensitive and required only about half a turn to do a loop, but more remarkable was the secondary effect of rudder input. Smooth input of rudder at most speeds resulted in a reasonably well-balanced turn with little nose drop. On my test flights, I found to my ground crew passengers' alarm, that in smooth conditions, I could take off and land without touching the control column and also do reasonable aerobatics. They could see neither my left hand nor my feet, so I would lean into turns and fwd/back for pitch and they were easily convinced that leaning was sufficient to control the aircraft. I had them convinced that the control column was 'for emergency and testing use only' until one of them mentioned it to one of the instructors.

[Mike Gallafent]

On 16 Sqn at Celle 1953-56, equipped with Vampires then Venoms. Email: [email protected]

[Steve Bond]

Thanks RifRaf3 and Mike.

[Bill Macgillivray]

And having been on the first JP3 course we found the T11 to be rather basic!!

Bill

[brakedwell]

I was on 111 course at 8 FTS Swinderby from October 1956 to August 1957, followed by six weeks filling in time at 7 FTS Valley awaiting a Hunter Course. All the students at Valley were members of the Fleet Air Arm. I remember finding the Vampire being so much easier to fly than the Piston Provost with only one hairy experience in the T11, although high mach number/high IAS control problems in single seat FB5 and FB9 were commonplace during the course. They were grounded for four weeks after two single seat Vampires failed to recover from high speed dives during medium level exercises. Trying to emulate test pilots in the Sound Barrier film frightened the pants off most of us! During the grounding from mid June to mid July 1957 our time was occupied cleaning the single seaters using an evil mixture called virgin's juice. A De Havilland team arrived and all the booms were found to be twisted beyond limits and serious dents in the bullet fairings on the tail were thought to be causing airflow problems around the tail. Not surprising as a lot of them had seen service in Korea!
The T11 incident gave me a fright. The brand new aircraft appeared on the flight line in the early part of the course and we all wanted to have a go in it. I think my turn came three days later for a solo medium level aerobatics and high speed run exercise. Pulling out of a high G dive around 20000 feet there was almighty bang and the aircraft flicked on to it's back. After recovering to level flight I was shocked to see the port wing had changed colour from silver to green! There was a strong tendency for the wing to drop, but it was controllanle and a few stalls confirmed the need to add an extra 10 to 15 knots on finals. The reason for the flick soon became apparent. The port wing was thinner than the starboard wing. One had been built at Hawarden and the other at Hatfield, hence the difference. The thin wing had been corrected by adding a very deep layer of filler, which broke away under stress after a few flight. Another memory - I managed to coax a T11 up to 49700 feet over the Irish Sea on a solo flight from Valley, tip-toeing between a high speed and a low speed stall with engine grumbling away gasping for air.

[pr00ne]

No Vampires saw service in Korea.

[brakedwell]

No Vampires saw service in Korea.

That’s what they told us, but nothing could change the fact that most of them were knackered.

[Prangster]

I remember seeing a mid air between 2 T11's over Colwick near Nottingham. I was crossing the school playground and for some reason my heaad snapped up and left in time to see the aircraft hit each other I'd say at about 25000ft sorry cant give date