Russia's Putin unveils 'invincible' nuclear weapons

[Heathrow Harry]

Russia's Putin unveils 'invincible' nuclear weapons - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43239331)

Some nice graphics in the video but the audience don't look terribly excited.....

J V Stalin would have has "applause breaking into standing ovation " at the very least :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Also they clearly "launch" from Russia but the other land masses are carefully altered so you can't see who the target is........

____________________________________________

Russia has developed a new array of nuclear weapons that are invincible, according to President Vladimir Putin.


Mr Putin made the claims as he laid out his key policies for a fourth presidential term, ahead of an election he is expected to win in 17 days' time.
The weapons he boasted of included a cruise missile that he said could "reach anywhere in the world".


He said of the West: "They need to take account of a new reality and understand ... [this]... is not a bluff." Giving his annual state of the nation speech, Mr Putin used video presentations to showcase the development of two new nuclear delivery systems that he said could evade detection. One included a "low-flying, difficult-to-spot cruise missile... with a practically unlimited range and an unpredictable flight path, which can bypass lines of interception and is invincible in the face of all existing and future systems of both missile defence and air defence".


Another weapon he discussed was a submarine-launched, long-range missile capable of delivering a nuclear warhead.

[dead_pan]

All existing and future defensive systems?? Blimey,that's a bit of a bold claim. No doubt one to whip his social media fanbase into a frenzy.

Kanyon, on the other hand, has certainly got western planners scratching their heads.

[Lonewolf_50]

Arms Race, Part 10? OK, I guess it's time to practice ducking and covering.

[tartare]

Yes. I read this. I call bull****skiovitch.
Either the Russian defence industry has achieved multiple simultaneous technological breakthroughs, or Comrade Vladimir is just repackaging and reannouncing programs at various stages of development- and spinning them all as operationally ready or deployed.

[Turbine D]

Surely Trump will have several Twitter responses. "Our IBCMs are faster than yours." "You have yet to see our mini-cruise missiles enter your front door key hole at Mach 5.7" "Call me if you would like to discuss over lunch someday, bring your red button so we can compare."

[Alber Ratman]

I am not going to lose any sleep tonight.

[Basil]

I am not going to lose any sleep tonight.
I s'pose Putin feels he has to jump on the willy-waving bandwagon.

[Ascend Charlie]

There should be a demo flight of the low-flying cruise missile with a "practically unlimited range", by flying it around the world twenty times without a refuel.

Otherwise, a load of Horsztschmitzki.

[oldpax]

But what is the point?Are the Russians still of a mindset that we are still in a cold war ?Ploughshares not guns!Nobody wants to invade Russia ,the people are happier than they have ever been ,who is bankrolling all this technology(missilewise)!

[Art Smass]

.....who is bankrolling all this technology(missilewise)!

sales of Putin's annual macho calendar :}

[tdracer]

Claims are easy, credible evidence not so much.
One of the reports I saw said a "nuclear powered" cruise missile. Pretty much everyone gave up on nuclear powered missiles or aircraft decades ago - granted if you could make one work it would have nearly unlimited range but just to make something workable would be groundbreaking - making it fit on a cruise missile would be earth shaking.
I wonder what part of "MAD" Putin is forgetting? The USA still has a plentiful supply of instant sunshine that could be quickly rained on Russia.

[gileraguy]

electioneering, I'll wager...

[jack11111]

Vladimir is going to arm the peasants and Trumpet will arm the teachers.

[Heathrow Harry]

electioneering, I'll wager...


yes - amazing what people will say to get elected..................

[NutLoose]

Invincible nukes, what's the point, they would never kill every nuke sent in response and what got through on both sides would turn the world and their respective countries into a desolate barren rock.

One included a "low-flying, difficult-to-spot cruise missile... with a practically unlimited range and an unpredictable flight path, which can bypass lines of interception and is invincible in the face of all existing and future systems of both missile defence and air defence".Hmmm.. rather like a spotty kid in a Cessna 172 on a visit to Moscow.

It amazes me the World elects Muppets to positions of power..

[A_Van]

I like the comment from Turbine D :-)


Indeed, the truth evaporates as soon as it leaves development and testing engineers. Industrial "generals", though have good technical education and knowledge, report to mil. customers what they would like to hear. The latters report to the mil hightest mngt (where technical education does not exist any more) about some general user requirements only. And hell knows what do they understand or not. And finally, the ministers report to the guy number 1, all of them having no technical knowledge at all. Then come fantasies and statements like "my red button is much bigger and more red than yours" :-)
The only real thing that I agree with in all this poorly structured stream of information is that it was a bad move from the US back in early 2000's (was it 2000 or 2002) when the US unilaterally broke the 1972 year treaty concerning anti ballistic missile defense. The reason was clear: Russia was in a bad shape at this time and temptation was high, but the Russians warned (I clearly remember): "Don't do that, otherwise we'll be back". Nobody listened.
Now we have Aegis with SM deployed all around, NATO at out door step with 5-10 min flight time. Also showcases like the one in Yugoslavia. Thus, efforts to deal with this new situation are justified.
IMHO, it is more dangerous than it was before, when there were many ICBMs, but only one region per country allowed to be defended by anti-ICBM missiles (Grand Forks and Moscow).

[Old-Duffer]

Every time I hear something like this, I'm reminded of Neville Shute's wonderful book: "On The Beach" and the film. It's all about the world being destroyed as a nuclear cloud moves slowly south after an exchange of weapons in the northern hemisphere.

The cloud eventually reaches Australia, where the story is set.

Old Duffer

[NutLoose]

I remember that one, they are on a sub and end up racing cars before the end.


NATO at our door step with 5-10 min flight time. both ways, you seem to have missed that little point.

[DANbudgieman]

"They need to take account of a new reality and understand ... [this]... is not a bluff."

Aye... More like bulls**t. Is he trying to vie with Trump (a most appropriate name, in the north of England sense) for the world leader blowing most hot air out of his a**e?

[Buster Hyman]

Why all the posturing? He doesn't need to convince the Proles when he controls the Elections in two major countries...

[PEI_3721]

Electioneering, posturing, “you are doing this so are we - but first”, etc; yes, but still to be taken seriously.

With improving missile defences then highly manoeuvrable ICBM warheads, stealth, decoys, and jamming would be useful updates; and perhaps not that expensive.
Similarly an alternative nuclear strike capability based on a submarine / air launched long range hypersonic cruise missile could offer a worldwide strike capability, and pose new problems for detection and interception. This system would also provide an alternative second strike capability or give a ‘tactical’ nuclear option which might be required to combat emergent threats.
In addition, a common non-nuclear air/sea hypersonic missile would offer significant flexibility choosing how to deal with a wide range of targets; land, sea, and air (yes air to air), and as a political tool

[beardy]

I understood that one of the problems that hypersonic missiles suffered from was communications (because of interference from the superheated boundary layer around the missile.) This would mean no inflight adjustments for a manoeuvring target nor for evasion, the target position would have to be programmed before launch, and no recall/self destruct option.

[langleybaston]

Surely it matters not how invincible his weapons are. He has to be sure that absolutely none of his potential enemies' weapons can get through. None.

[NutLoose]

LB,

I personally think that Chernobyl put that myth to bed, the fact a "contained" leak spread throughout Europe so rapidly and so widely shows that if it had gone seriously Pete Tong Europe would have been decimated with the fallout, even if he manages to take out the US without a solitary return strike, the rest of the world, Russia included would be pretty much dead from there on. It's ok having bunkers to retreat too, but eventually they will have to return above ground.



Interesting read

Is Vladimir Putin bluffing or should we be worried about his new 'miracle weapons'? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-02/is-vladimir-putin-bluffing-on-nuclear-weapons/9502240)

[ORAC]

So why the hysterics and protests about the US/NATO missile defence system if it is useless anyway?…………

[tdracer]

The primary purpose of the US/NATO missile defense system is to intercept a small number of incoming from a rogue state (Iran and North Korea come to mind). It was never planned to intercept hundreds (or more) of warheads from a major Russian strike.

Edited to add that I'm speaking of the current missile defense - not the Star Wars program proposed by Regan back in the 1980's

[ORAC]

I know exactly what it’s for - but the Russian excuse/claims were that it was intended to defend against them. Put in would seem to have demolished their own argument.

[A_Van]

beardy.

You are right about the plasma issue. But it is well-known for decades since the problem to communicate with descending spacecraft crew had arisen. Many successful research and experiments were undertaken recently in US, Russia, China and even Germany. No idea if anybody implemented any solution in a real thing, but all this seems doable.

Also no idea why there are some hysterics about long-range missiles mentioned by Putin (though I think he should not have talked about this publicly).

Nuke-powered cruise missile is a "grand-dad stuff". I recall I read about it being a kid in mil. academy. Here are a couple of links:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersonic_Low_Altitude_Missile


https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3406-nuclear-powered-drone-aircraft-on-drawing-board/


And "highly" manoeuvrable ICBM warhead is not an advanced thing to do for the industry that was launching "shuttle like" spacecraft some 30+ years ago.


As for "Armageddon", radiation will not be the major killer, but global "N-winter". Even NZ would not give a shelter.

[Heathrow Harry]

Apparently they're running a naming competition with the public for some of the new kit - but they've warned that trying a "Boaty McBoatface" campaign will NOT be appreciated and we all know what that means..........

[Heathrow Harry]

Probably some variant on "Strike", "Mighty", "Storm", "property of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin" etc etc

[tartare]

Well personally I just want to know if that Samat whatever it is can actually do the fractional orbital bombardment thing.
Now that's a real threat.
Sneaking up from the south like that - most unsporting... Particularly when chaps have oriented more or less their entire defensive posture to Ivan coming over the pole.
The rest of the announcement - load of wishful thinking bollocks Vladimir.

[A_Van]

Well personally I just want to know if that Samat whatever it is can actually do the fractional orbital bombardment thing.
Now that's a real threat.
Sneaking up from the south like that - most unsporting... Particularly when chaps have oriented more or less their entire defensive posture to Ivan coming over the pole.....


But no change as far as technology is concerned, just a scalability issue. Put THAAD and GBI facilities along the country perimeter if you are sure they work as announced.



The rest of the announcement - load of wishful thinking bollocks Vladimir.

Hmm, it looks like the "dagger" missile (carried by MiG) is already in some operational AF units.

[tartare]

With greatest of genuine respect - мой друг I don't believe it.
With all due acknowledgement to Comrade Korolev et al and your nations expertise in missiles/rocketry - a cruise missile with a miniature reactor and unlimited range - this is the Dagger - no?
Like Comrade Kim's missile that will threaten the US - show me a test - and then you've convinced me.
I won't be frightened of the North Koreans until they air burst a nuke, re-entered from orbit.
Similarly, until I see said cruise missile travel around the world and keep going - it's just propaganda.

[A_Van]

With greatest of genuine respect - мой друг I don't believe it.
With all due acknowledgement to Comrade Korolev et al and your nations expertise in missiles/rocketry ...


Thanks.



- a cruise missile with a miniature reactor and unlimited range - this is the Dagger - no?


No. "Dagger" (this name is used in the English-speaking media, in Russian it's called "Kinzhal") is this one:

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2018-03-02/putin-unveils-kinzhal-hypersonic-missile


As for the N-driven "unlimited range" cruise missile, I wrote earlier that prototyping was done in US and RU back in 50's and 60's. Thus, technology wise it is not a challenge (at least for US, RU and probably China). Believing it or not, it's up to you. Sorry, but nobody would show you test results, if any. US would not share the results either.

[NutLoose]

So the potential is there to overshoot it and send it back. :E

[pasta]

You are right about the plasma issue. But it is well-known for decades since the problem to communicate with descending spacecraft crew had arisen. Many successful research and experiments were undertaken recently in US, Russia, China and even Germany. No idea if anybody implemented any solution in a real thing, but all this seems doable.


I thought that problem had been solved; the Space Shuttle maintained continuous communication during re-entry, via a satellite (TDRSS) "behind" the re-entry path, which is how NASA maintained data/comms during the first part of the Columbia disaster.

Mind you, as re-entry vehicles go the Shuttle was rather large; it might be a greater challenge for smaller vehicles.

[Lyneham Lad]

On Aviation Analysis Wing website:-

Russian Kinzhal hypersonic missile is based on Iskander-M (http://www.aviationanalysis.net/2018/03/russia-kinzhal-missile-based-on-iskander-m.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AviationAnalysisWing+%28Aviation+Analys is+Wing%29)

Snip:-
Russia's new air launched Kinzhal hypersonic missile is a modified version of the 9M723 missile equipping the mobile Iskander-M surface to surface short range tactical ballistic missile system.

The Kinzhal(Dagger) was revealed by Russian President Vladimir Putin along with five other strategic weapons that supposedly gave Russia an strategic edge over United States.

Dubbed the Kh-47M2 Kinzhal, the air-to-ground missile is initially carried by a MiG-31BM interceptor under its belly hard point.

The massive twin engine MiG-31 remains the fastest operational fighter capable of clocking a top speed close to Mach 3. Cruise speed is 2.35 Mach with a combat range of 1450 km.

The carrier aircraft will serve as the first stage for the Kinzhal, accelerating the missile to a pre-determined altitude and speed that will enable an strategic standoff strike range of 2000 km (1250 miles).

[Lonewolf_50]

The question remains: is the missile invisible, or just hard to track?

[jolihokistix]

Putin just taking several leaves out of li'l Kim's book in the east, but more democratically.

Kim Jong-Un never promised anyone jam tomorrow.

[A_Van]

One thing is clear: Raytheon and LockMart will remain good stocks to buy :-)

[NutLoose]

I cannot see the point in having a missile that can cruise around the world, surely the longer time it is airborne increases the possibility of it being intercepted and neutralised, hence why you tend to sit a sub full of fun off the oppositions seaboard.

[Brat]

The question remains: is the missile invisible, or just hard to track?

It is probably about as visible as the brand new Russian superfighter f-35/F-22 ‘killler' deployed to Syria.

Now you see them, now you don’t. FFS the Russian airforce can't afford buying them, and the Indians don’t want them.
Russia Admits Su-57s Were In Syria But Claims They Left After Just Two Days - The Drive (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18927/russia-admits-su-57s-were-in-syria-but-claims-they-left-after-just-two-days)

Russia has a well earned reputation for telling porky pies,
the Western press has a reputation of gobbling them up and spewing then out as ‘amazing’ headlines.

[Lyneham Lad]

U.S. Hypersonic Weapons ‘Coming’ As Putin Touts Russia’s Lead (http://aviationweek.com/defense/us-hypersonic-weapons-coming-putin-touts-russia-s-lead?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20180306_AW-05_444&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_5_5&utm_rid=CPEN1000003474208&utm_campaign=13917&utm_medium=email&elq2=8fb5d8cc06f14a2a83d2a88b8840012c)

Snip:-
As Russian President Vladimir Putin displayed video of the country’s Kinzhal air-launched hypersonic strike missile in his March 1 state of the union address, Darpa’s director confirmed the U.S. will flight test operational prototypes of a similar weapon in 2022-23.

The race continues...

[A_Van]

Thought some news on this topic would be interesting: one piece of the Russian "porky pie" has just successfully passed its next test saying "hi" to SM-3 and GBI ( and to Bush Jr who withdrew from the ABM treaty) :rolleyes:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-america-should-fear-russias-new-avangard-hypersonic-weapon-we-dont-have-any-defense (https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-america-should-fear-russias-new-avangard-hypersonic-weapon-we-dont-have-any-defense)

Even Oz news made comments:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/russia-hails-successful-test-of-new-hypersonic-weapons-system/news-story/1c8b858007c607385cb93c66764c9cdc (https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/russia-hails-successful-test-of-new-hypersonic-weapons-system/news-story/1c8b858007c607385cb93c66764c9cdc)

[Imagegear]

Of one thing I am certain: Somebody, somewhere has a bigger one. As ever, should this thing ever be launched in anger, something bigger will be launched.

There comes a time where a proportional response becomes the ultimate response.

IG

[ORAC]

A pointless PR weapon for the Russian public which does nothing the RS-28 and RSM-56 can’t do.

The GBI, Patriot and other missiles have a limited capability against single shot opponents such as North Korea or Iran and are useless against either of the above.

But whatever persuades Putin to waste money in such directions the better.

[Melchett01]

Regardless of the actual truth behind these claims, it does reveal an interesting point about thinking in places like Russia and China. The West continues to focus on stealth platforms and yet there seems to be a growing trend towards hypersonic missile technologies amongst what we would traditionally describe as our potential enemies. It’s a little bit like those drunken arguments you used to have with mates about who would win a fight between improbable opponents like Godzilla and King Kong. What does the future hold - stealth or hypersonic? Or is hypersonic the new stealth? One might argue that it is; it would certainly ft in with the thinking that the pilot is likely to be the weakest link in future air power delivery. Would be interesting to understand our opponents’ doctrine to see their views on these things if we are to be appropriately configured for the next rather than last conflict. So much for COIN being the only future conflict!

[A_Van]

A pointless PR weapon for the Russian public which does nothing the RS-28 and RSM-56 can’t do.

You are definitely too far from that subject and "compare cold and green". Here, the key point is the manoeuvrable final stage. The current booster itself is pretty old, even ancient. What you mention are new ICBMs, which may or may not be equipped with such a final stage.

The GBI, Patriot and other missiles have a limited capability against single shot opponents such as North Korea or Iran and are useless against either of the above.

Not really. GBI is a powerful thing and can intercept as many targets as the double number of interceptors deployed. The same with SM-3 (not its current "release" but potential future ones). The issue is that the targets should be ballistic, i.e. their trajectories are predictable. Patriot and THAAD are local area defence systems.


But whatever persuades Putin to waste money in such directions the better.

It's rather opposite. The adversary will now have to spend zillions to develop new generation of SAMs and install them along the whole perimeter of its territory (and even more inland).
It would be way cheaper to remain within the ABM treaty (and pull China in).

[A_Van]

Regardless of the actual truth behind these claims, it does reveal an interesting point about thinking in places like Russia and China. The West continues to focus on stealth platforms and yet there seems to be a growing trend towards hypersonic missile technologies amongst what we would traditionally describe as our potential enemies. It’s a little bit like those drunken arguments you used to have with mates about who would win a fight between improbable opponents like Godzilla and King Kong. What does the future hold - stealth or hypersonic? Or is hypersonic the new stealth? One might argue that it is; it would certainly ft in with the thinking that the pilot is likely to be the weakest link in future air power delivery. Would be interesting to understand our opponents’ doctrine to see their views on these things if we are to be appropriately configured for the next rather than last conflict. So much for COIN being the only future conflict!

An interesting point indeed. IMHO, both concepts make sense. I would compare the risks of the adversary's invention of a "silver bullet" that would make my gadget(s) useless.

[Jetstream67]

Odd . . .. . A lot of money to spend when all you need is a tourist visa or rubber dinghy to evade and overcome the UK's current defense capability

[Jetstream67]

Apparently they're running a naming competition with the public for some of the new kit - but they've warned that trying a "Boaty McBoatface" campaign will NOT be appreciated and we all know what that means..........
Nasty McNuke face would do it . .

[UPP]

"Bangy McBangface".........?

[ORAC]

I think it’s more Putin trying to pull the Reagan “Star wars” trick and get the USA to spend a fortune responding to a non-existent threat.

Three problems though. Firstly, I don’t think the US sees the weapons as a threat worth responding too; Secondly they don’t see Russia as an existential threat any more (they saw communism as an existential threat, a capitalist Russia, not so much; lastly the US attention has switched to concentrating on China.

[Bigbux]

"Bangy McBangface".........?


Pute Mc Puteface. works well in Spanish.

[Torquelink]

I think it’s more Putin trying to pull the Reagan “Star wars” trick and get the USA to spend a fortune responding to a non-existent threat.

Russia's economy is approximately the same size as S Korea's or Spain's and is much smaller than those of France and the UK and just a fraction of the US's or China's. The country appears to export little but oil, gas and military hardware. For how long can it continue to pour resources into advanced weaponry in an attempt to maintain "superpower" status alongside the US and China? Presumably everything else which advanced Western countries take for granted such as healthcare, education, social care, pensions, infrastructure etc have been neglected. How long will the apparently compliant population tolerate being a third world country in virtually every respect except for the military? Putin and his corrupt mafia cronies would appear to control everything to their own advantage while neglecting pretty much everything else - and eliminate all opposition both literally and through control of the media.

It is not beyond imagining that a repeat of the Reagan Star Wars scenario i.e. a massive ramp up of Western military expenditure which helped force the collapse of the USSR in the 1980s would eventually result in the overthrow of Putin and his henchmen as the population got increasingly fed up with becoming poorer and poorer. The establishment of a regime more focused on domestic issues rather than creating trouble abroad would be in everyone's interest.

[Rick777]

Hypersonic weapons are great until your enemy has lasers to defend against them.

[West Coast]

Mounted on sharks?

[Pontius Navigator]

Melchett, stealth and hypersonic strategic systems are both sides of the 'bomber will always get through ' argument. Both can be used for first strike but only stealth platforms are reusable. Stealth systems also lose the surprise element for an attack on a continental size target set. This suggests that stealth is a better system if you expect to be engaged in a protracted war or against a smaller rogue State.

The utility of a non-nuclear strategic missile was always in doubt as your opponent might counter with nuclear just in case. The same logic could be applied to a hypersonic missile if you detected a massive attack.

[ORAC]

Puts things in context. Ignoring the stroke to the UK ego, it places Russia 10th, below India in the “average” category......

https://order-order.com/2019/01/04/uk-ranked-worlds-second-powerful-nation/

UK Ranked as World’s Second Most Powerful Nation

The UK has been ranked the world’s second most powerful nation despite Brexit. The Henry Jackson Society‘s Audit of Geopolitical Capability (https://henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/HJS-2019-Audit-of-Geopolitical-Capability-Report-web.pdf) used a model involving four attributes, 33 indicators and 1240 potential data observations and placed the UK after the US but slightly ahead of China.

The Audit’s Chief Analyst, James Rogers, said that the UK voting to leave the EU “has had no discernible impact on the UK’s fundamental ability to apply itself around the World”, but does recommend increased R&D spend and armed forces’ projection capacities to prevent the UK falling behind, particularly in light of China’s naval buildup. Politicians who like to call Britain a small island in the North Atlantic would do well to read the report in full (https://henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/HJS-2019-Audit-of-Geopolitical-Capability-Report-web.pdf)…

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/653x373/power_rank_c3a9f4ee9041437b4918e487874bed72643ab66f.jpg