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GLIDER 90
28th Feb 2018, 22:38
Anyone know if they are going to remake the Dambusters film yet, from what I have read the producer has been working on other films. But saying that it was about 15 years ago! apparently they have made some Lancaster Bomber models but that's is as far has he as got. I would think by now he would know if he is or not going to make the film, and put everyone in the picture. Personally I think they should not bother and stick to the original film.

Regards
Glider 90

rotornut
28th Feb 2018, 22:52
And they'll change Gibson's dog name to "A Dog With Colour".

vapilot2004
28th Feb 2018, 23:01
If they do, that would be the 4th movie. First was made in 1955, then one in 1981 and 2003. I watched the most recent flick, but not the first two.

The best part of the entire scheme is how it highlights the British way of thinking for success, no matter the obstacles. This mindset is likely why so many technologies we take for granted (and sometimes credit, at least here in the states) were first discovered/explored in the Isles.

Ascend Charlie
1st Mar 2018, 06:18
No, Ginger was Algy's mate. Or was it Biggles?

DaveReidUK
1st Mar 2018, 06:43
Good luck trying to recreate this without CGI (I believe there were actually four used when making the film, though only three actually flew):

https://dambusters.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/2012_04_25_14_06_470001.jpg?w=636

Hokulea
1st Mar 2018, 07:39
If they do, that would be the 4th movie. First was made in 1955, then one in 1981 and 2003. I watched the most recent flick, but not the first two.

The best part of the entire scheme is how it highlights the British way of thinking for success, no matter the obstacles. This mindset is likely why so many technologies we take for granted (and sometimes credit, at least here in the states) were first discovered/explored in the Isles.
I'm confused. I'm only aware of the 1955 movie. What were the others?

DaveReidUK
1st Mar 2018, 07:56
I'm confused. I'm only aware of the 1955 movie. What were the others?

There have been several documentaries on the Dambusters over the years, and even a video game (in 1981, I believe).

I remember a two-part series on Channel 4 in 2003, with an accompanying book, where present-day RAF pilots attempted to emulate the raid flying simulators.

Like you, I'm not aware of any feature films other than the original 1955 one.

Hokulea
1st Mar 2018, 08:37
I remember a two-part series on Channel 4 in 2003, with an accompanying book, where present-day RAF pilots attempted to emulate the raid flying simulators.
I tried looking for that online but with no success so far. Do you happen to recall how the pilots fared?

FullOppositeRudder
1st Mar 2018, 09:26
I hope they don't try for a remake of the Dam Busters. Some films (like the Thomas Crown Affair) can only be successfully made once. The 1955 effort at the Dam Busters was totally believable and had the ring of authenticity (for a high school lad like me). For a lot of people, it still told a story which needed to be put out there. The modern film industry would be incapable of handling this in an authentic manner. The world has moved on, and it's best to leave things how they were in that era.

FOR

Union Jack
1st Mar 2018, 09:28
May I suggest a wee shoogle with Google on the admittedly somewhat unlikely combination of "Dambusters" and "Stephen Fry"....

Jack

Sallyann1234
1st Mar 2018, 09:49
Following on from certain other war films, will we find that the raid was carried out by the US Air Force?

charliegolf
1st Mar 2018, 09:52
Following on from certain other war films, will we find that the raid was carried out by the US Air Force?

No. But we will in all likelihood, be introduced to a dashing US exchange officer/scientist who solved the last intractable problem in the process, thereby allowing the raid to go ahead successfully!

CG

Exrigger
1st Mar 2018, 10:15
The latest on the remake that I can find:

https://dambustersblog.com/2018/01/25/jacksons-new-ww1-film-means-further-delay-for-dambusters-remake/

As to films:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dam_Busters_(film)

DaveReidUK
1st Mar 2018, 10:26
I tried looking for that online but with no success so far. Do you happen to recall how the pilots fared?

It's a while back, but I'm not sure it was an unqualified success. The guinea-pigs were fresh out of Cranwell rather than seasoned RAF pilots.

I don't think the documentary is available (legally) online, but you can get hold of the accompanying book fairly cheaply:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51MCO9OVDtL._SX376_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dambusters-David-COWARD-JOHNSTONE-SWEETMAN/dp/B0049N3HM2

Blacksheep
1st Mar 2018, 12:28
(And I once worked with someone who had flown in that 1955 original.)I once had a nice chat with Joe Kmiecek who was then on 207 Sqn when I was at Northolt in the late 70s. He was one of the pilots in the film and he said they flew their dam attacks in daylight and the film crew set camera exposures to make the film look like they were flying at night. He was full of admiration for anyone who would fly a Lancaster across the continent at low level at night, then conduct an attack at 60 feet using spotlights to judge the height.

Highway1
1st Mar 2018, 12:56
Not in favour of another remake - after the Dunkirk remake they should leave the subject alone.

Were there any remakes that were better than the original fim?

Sallyann1234
1st Mar 2018, 13:24
He was full of admiration for anyone who would fly a Lancaster across the continent at low level at night, then conduct an attack at 60 feet using spotlights to judge the height.
And the speed had to be precisely correct too at the point of bomb release.

For anyone interested, Guy Gibson's own memoir of the raid is available for a nominal sum on Kindle. It was written before the end of the war, so necessarily light on technical detail but still worth a read.
And his dog is mentioned several times.

galaxy flyer
1st Mar 2018, 14:31
No. But we will in all likelihood, be introduced to a dashing US exchange officer/scientist who solved the last intractable problem in the process, thereby allowing the raid to go ahead successfully!

CG


And Guy Gibson will be half-American

GF

Tankertrashnav
1st Mar 2018, 17:38
Can anyone think of a film remake that was better than the original? Most are real turkeys (think Get Carter, Flight of the Phoenix etc.). I preferred the Gary Oldman version of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier Spy to the original TV series (heresy, some might say) but I cant think of many other examples.

meadowrun
1st Mar 2018, 17:44
Imagination Tank running on empty

vapilot2004
1st Mar 2018, 19:33
I'm confused. I'm only aware of the 1955 movie. What were the others?

There was a TV movie made at Pinewood after the turn of the millennium. The other Dambusters I thought was a movie was actually a documentary/docu-fiction type. Apologies if I led anyone astray.

ExSp33db1rd
1st Mar 2018, 22:40
And Guy Gibson will be half-American

and fly with his hat on.

DaveReidUK
1st Mar 2018, 22:55
There was a TV movie made at Pinewood after the turn of the millennium.

Coincidentally, Gary Johnstone's feature-length 2003 TV documentary for Channel 4 was also made at Pinewood.

For anyone who wants to see it, there's a copy currently being advertised on ebay at 3.99:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162909519574?clk_rvr_id=1454498687228&rmvSB=true

Airclues
1st Mar 2018, 23:18
Guy Gibson's own memoir of the raid is available for a nominal sum on Kindle.

"Enemy Coast Ahead" by Guy Gibson is also available in printed form on Amazon. It's an excellent read.

galaxy flyer
2nd Mar 2018, 01:58
I just read James Holland’s book, Dam Busters, quite good and see no reason for the movie. There was an American pilot on the raids, Joe McCarthy.

GF

tdracer
2nd Mar 2018, 03:05
Imagination Tank running on empty
Sadly, at least in Hollywood, that's been the case for years. While there has been the occasional good original movie, if it wasn't for remakes, sequels, and comic book based stories Hollywood wouldn't even be able to sustain itself. Worse, most of the remakes have been re-written to be current day politically correct and in the process have all but ruined the stories (and some of the sequels have the same problem).
Precious few sequels are as good as the original (the Star Wars "Empire Strikes Back" being one of most notable exceptions) - and remakes even less so.
If they do indeed do a remake of 'Dambusters', I'd bet good money that the filming and special effects would be impressive - and everything else about the movie will suck.

Jetex_Jim
2nd Mar 2018, 03:20
A

and fly with his hat on.

He takes his hat off at the end.

https://goo.gl/images/SgxXzWhttps://goo.gl/images/SgxXzW

meadowrun
2nd Mar 2018, 03:42
Sadly I mourn for current filmmaking. Crafting a fine film is becoming a lost skill.
Think of your five favorite films and how you feel when you remember them, or watch them again or how you felt that first time you saw them.
Checkers recently mentioned re-watching "Casablanca". Hollywood at that time was absolutely churning them out for insatiable audiences amid a looming war and they managed to produce a piece of art. Just one example. You will know yours.

Too little of that kind of stuff around these days.

L-H
2nd Mar 2018, 04:15
Totally agree, my three all time favourites are:

The Way Ahead
The Way to The Stars
A Matter of Life and Death

All crackingly well written, acted, directed and produced. Great stories with brilliant characterisation. Another brilliant film of the period that is little known is 'The Journey Together' telling the story of aircrew training during the war with the focus on a pilot trainee (Dickie Attenborough) who gets chopped and retrains as a nav.

When I watch any of these I am left with a real sense of satisfaction and a belief that the modern film industry has lost something.

Hokulea
2nd Mar 2018, 04:58
I don't think the documentary is available (legally) online, but you can get hold of the accompanying book fairly cheaply
Thank you very much, I'll definitely order a copy. I have quite a collection of books about WWII, many inherited from my father who was in the RAF at that time (and a long time afterwards) and probably hard to get hold of these days.

vapilot - thanks for the clarification.

I definitely agree that some films just don't need to be remade. The 1955 Dambusters film is one of my favourites, along with The Cruel Sea, Battle of Britain and A Bridge Too Far among many others.

pineridge
2nd Mar 2018, 21:11
Just finished watching "Reach for the Sky" . Full length version on You Tube from 1956 starring Kenneth More as Douglas Bader. I was 13 years old when I saw it for the first time at our local "Astra" at RAF Thorney Island.

b1lanc
2nd Mar 2018, 21:30
I hope they don't try for a remake of the Dam Busters. Some films (like the Thomas Crown Affair) can only be successfully made once. The 1955 effort at the Dam Busters was totally believable and had the ring of authenticity (for a high school lad like me). For a lot of people, it still told a story which needed to be put out there. The modern film industry would be incapable of handling this in an authentic manner. The world has moved on, and it's best to leave things how they were in that era.

FOR
Well, if Vera were to cross the ocean and join Thumper again, and Just Jane gets airborne, it could be interesting. But, I had thought about who might play lead roles and I'm not sure you could match the calibre of Todd, Redgrave, and the many excellent supporting cast members with anyone today.

b1lanc
2nd Mar 2018, 21:48
Another brilliant film of the period that is little known is 'The Journey Together' telling the story of aircrew training during the war with the focus on a pilot trainee (Dickie Attenborough) who gets chopped and retrains as a nav.

I had never heard of that until I saw it on Amazon last month (free if you have prime). When I saw Attenborough and Edward G. Robinson in the same cast, I had to look. Imagine my surprise when the Lancs showed up. Great film. Another excellent film not widely known is The Purple Plain (Mossies, Burma).

Malta Story with Alec Guinness as a Spit recce pilot on Malta (much included in the story based upon exploits of Adrian Warburton). Not the best special effects but very faithful to actual events including actual films of Operation Pedestal, the Ohio, and Spits departing the American aircraft carrier Wasp during a later convoy.

Appoinment in London, Dam Busters, A Matter of Life and Death, The Way to the Stars, Reach for the Sky.....all the Brit films of that genre were outstanding - BoB too.

On the US side, Twelve O'Clock High, Command Decision, Air Force (which hit home as my math teacher was a P-40 pilot at Clark Field at the time of the attacks), God Is My Co-Pilot (very Hollywood'ized) but introduced me to the Flying Tigers and correspondence with Gen Robert L. Scott, Tora Tora Tora for being faithfully true to facts at the expense of acting. Too much Hollywood in most, but still enjoyable.

PS. one of the best books I've ever read is Murray Peden's A Thousand Shall Fall. I could not put that very large book down.

SARF
2nd Mar 2018, 22:29
Angels One five.

Septic calling.. septic calling. Tell the tiger our race will be postponed...

Indefinitely

NutLoose
2nd Mar 2018, 22:41
They did the flying in the original at 60 Ft as in the raid but on film it looked too high, so they reshot it at 30 Ft.

b1lanc
2nd Mar 2018, 22:43
Angels One five.

Septic calling.. septic calling. Tell the tiger our race will be postponed...

Indefinitely
Forgot about that classic and I'm a big Jack Hawkins fan too.....

Hokulea
3rd Mar 2018, 05:32
I mentioned the movie earlier - The Cruel Sea - and although it was made well before my time, it turned me into a fan of Jack Hawkins even if he passed away only a few years after I was born.

TURIN
3rd Mar 2018, 10:11
And they'll change Gibson's dog name to "A Dog With Colour".

Every feckin time this subject comes up some eejit mentions the dog, like its the most important fact in the film. Give it a rest please.

oldpax
3rd Mar 2018, 11:51
While Peter Jackson is making his mind up about the Dambusters remake he could do a budget movie of Operation Manna with the replica (and real )lancs,then the Americans could also be in with B-17s and operation chowhound!!!

Windy Militant
3rd Mar 2018, 12:28
If it could be made by a team similar to the one that made a Band of Brothers for HBO it might be decent effort. However I don't think that the story is well known enough state side to swing the bean counters.
And we all know what happens when they get involved:mad:

Highway1
3rd Mar 2018, 12:47
One of my favorites is Strategic Air Command with Jimmy Stewart - although the real stars were the B36 and B47's - real aircraft.. :ok:

And of course Jimmy Stewart was also in No Highway In the Sky - essential watching for anyone in aviation.

G-CPTN
3rd Mar 2018, 12:56
With people spending large sums of money to have new examples of long-discontinued vehicles 'bespoke' built (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-jaguar-xkss-d-type-be-revealed-november), why not build a few Lancasters?

At one stage the number of airworthy Spitfires was countable on one hand, however, currently the number is approaching three figures.

meadowrun
3rd Mar 2018, 12:58
Merlins would be a problem.
They could be replaced with something else but you'd never get the right sound without a computer assist.

spInY nORmAn
3rd Mar 2018, 19:29
One of my favorites is Strategic Air Command with Jimmy Stewart - although the real stars were the B36 and B47's - real aircraft..

B36 - 6 turning and 4 burning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FJVxtTNjJk

spInY nORmAn
3rd Mar 2018, 19:39
The recreation of the bouncing bomb a few years back was kinda interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJGY6ao-V9E

G-CPTN
3rd Mar 2018, 21:20
Thanks for that video - during half-term, I took my grandsons to the Brooklands Museum where they were able to see a display with a mock-up of the Barnes Wallis bouncing bomb - this video will show them how it works in real life.

Highway1
3rd Mar 2018, 21:53
B36 - 6 turning and 4 burning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FJVxtTNjJk


Outstanding example of the advent of the jet age - 10 engines for those that are worried about ETOPS..:ok:

Random SLF
3rd Mar 2018, 22:01
With people spending large sums of money to have new examples of long-discontinued vehicles 'bespoke' built, why not build a few Lancasters?

If they ever do, they'll 'build' them on a computer somewhere. Most of the modern big-budget blockbuster movies feature Computer Generated Imagery (CGI) to some extent, and not just the Sci-Fi and Horror genres.

Toadstool
4th Mar 2018, 06:14
Every feckin time this subject comes up some eejit mentions the dog, like its the most important fact in the film. Give it a rest please.

I'm with you on that one. I was waiting for their first poster to mention it. Didn't take long. Wood...trees.

Trossie
4th Mar 2018, 07:11
Funny old thing, I was quoted in Post #15, but the post that I am quoted from has disappeared!

Success in this raid was central to the entire effort. The code word for that success is just as central. The reason for the choice of that code word is important to knowing the people involved. Attempting to re-write or edit out any of that aspect of history would be just as bad as Sallyann1234's suggestion that these sort of remakes would have the raid carried out by the US air force. People who have any problem with some of these simple facts from history should just get over themselves.

I don't think that there should be any remake of the film. The original did a very good job and it should be left at that. (And unedited too!)

(An aside from that film, the pilot that I'd once worked with who flew in it said that Todd was disliked by the pilots as being 'a bit full of himself' and had to stand on a step for a lot of the scenes to hide his 'height challenge'!)

For a very good read on the topic, read 'Dam Busters' by James Holland. It goes into a lot of interesting 'behind the scenes' detail. His book on the Battle of Britain is equally as good.

FAR CU
4th Mar 2018, 07:17
Can anyone say whether Raymond Rhodes ever served with 617 SQN?
He was last living in Ulverston, Tasmania, and was given to recount his experiences with 617 around the time of the dams raid. He told me that he was a Lancaster pilot, that he was shot up over France or Holland (I cannot remember which country) at night, that his nav. who he said was named Nick , was a casualty on that occasion. The circumstances that Ray said attended the death of Nick were to me barely believable.

Ray also claimed to be closely related to the test cricketer Wilfred Rhodes
and that he had married Moira in England during the war.

A further claim was that he had spoken about his RAF service with Ian McNamara on the latter's popular radio program 'Australia All Over'.
That would have been between 1998 and 2005.

I only raise this matter here because of the potential that among the hundreds viewing these posts , someone is full-bottle on most aspects of
617's history.

Ogre
4th Mar 2018, 08:43
With people spending large sums of money to have new examples of long-discontinued vehicles 'bespoke' built (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-jaguar-xkss-d-type-be-revealed-november), why not build a few Lancasters?

At one stage the number of airworthy Spitfires was countable on one hand, however, currently the number is approaching three figures.

The company who currently holds the patent and plans for the Spitfire was asked, as a suggestion by one of their employees, why they didn't go into business building new airframes for the private market. It seemed a good idea on paper, but after a big of thought it was agreed that getting the airframes up to modern standards would cost a lot of money, and the original life was only in the region of 50 hours so to go back and do the work to raise that to a decent figure would have cost even more. A case of "nice try, no cigar"...

Pontius Navigator
4th Mar 2018, 10:57
Can anyone say whether Raymond Rhodes ever served with 617 SQN?
He was last living in Ulverston, Tasmania, and was given to recount his experiences with 617 around the time of the dams raid. He told me that he was a Lancaster pilot, that he was shot up over France or Holland (I cannot remember which country) at night, that his nav. who he said was named Nick , was a casualty on that occasion. The circumstances that Ray said attended the death of Nick were to me barely believable.
.
There is no mention of Rhodes in http://www.dambusters.org.uk/war-personalities/lost-in-action/ but of course the aircraft may have survived.

I checked FreeBMD for a marriage between 1939-1947 - nil.

London Gazette - nil.

Not conclusive but not positive either.

Found a Sgt Rhodes, RAF, Nav posted to 550Sqn 30 Jun 45 from HCU. 550 Squadron and RAF North Killingholme Association (http://www.550squadronassociation.org.uk/php-library/mysql-utils/reports/rpt_squadron_servicemen.php)

Found a FS R Rhodes, RAF Graveley which was a Halifax unit. https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/namesearch/?FirstName=Raymond&Surname=Rhodes&RecordType=Ww2&RecordDateStartYear=1939&RecordDateEndYear=1945

Of course you didnt suggest he was on Chastise himself.

G-CPTN
4th Mar 2018, 11:00
Dambusters: All the men who took part (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22544568)

No mention that Rhodes took part in the raids on the dams.

DaveReidUK
4th Mar 2018, 11:44
Can anyone say whether Raymond Rhodes ever served with 617 SQN?
He was last living in Ulverston, Tasmania, and was given to recount his experiences with 617 around the time of the dams raid. He told me that he was a Lancaster pilot, that he was shot up over France or Holland (I cannot remember which country) at night, that his nav. who he said was named Nick , was a casualty on that occasion. The circumstances that Ray said attended the death of Nick were to me barely believable.

Not necessarily conclusive, but a search of the CWGC website fails to find any deaths of a Nick/Nicholas (or any other variation of the name) from 617 Squadron.

Pontius Navigator
4th Mar 2018, 12:22
Far CU, care to expand? Is he still alive? What was unbelievable as many things in war are unbelievable?

FAR CU
4th Mar 2018, 12:44
Thanks for ferreting Dave Reid and Pontius Navigator.

It's looking probable then that our man was one of that sad contingent
who created for themselves an imaginary war service. Ray and Moira Rhodes had a son Gary who lived somewhere near Cygnet in the south of Tasmania.
He was estranged from his father according to Ray. So maybe the cause of that rift was the fabrications of the father. Maybe it is possible to find out
whether Wilfred Rhodes had a son, grandson or nephew, name of Raymond.

If indeed there was no marriage in the UK during, or shortly after the war years of anyone going by the names in question , and there exists no immigration record of these individuals supposed to have migrated from the UK to Australia, then it may also be that who they really were will remain an
unknown.

Certainly Ray Rhodes phone number was listed at the address where I knew he and Moira to live in Ulverstone until fairly recently.

Next step will be to search the Tasmania electoral roles for Ray, Moira and Gary. Why so ? Well, who likes to find they have been spun as the truth, a load of Walter Mitty type stories. Can make a person feel gullible.
Even a little contaminated.

Another story, this time relating to an alleged trainee pilot in the Dutch Air Force , that I have not been able to confirm, was that of Hans ("Tex") Moes-Bollen who claimed to have been a Dutch trainee pilot just after the war, and that he was injured in the crash of a two-seat F84 in the States
in 1947 or 1948, when the plane crashed in flames damaging his eyes. Hans, whether going under an alias or not, claimed to have lost a leg crop-dusting in a Tiger Moth in Australia, which would have been , I guess, in the late forties or early fifties. (Certainly, when I met this plausible individual in Airlie Beach, Queensland in 1998, he only had one leg to stand on.)
Hans said that as a youth in Rotterdam in 1940 the Gestapo had a big price on his head , as he had in the back streets in the night successfully garroted Germans with a length of piano wire. Hans said he was born in Laredo, Texas, where his Dutch father had worked for the Rand Corporation. (Pardon the Le Carre segue.)

Pontius Navigator
4th Mar 2018, 13:04
I found a marriage in Manchester in 1952 to a Moira McManus.

DaveReidUK
4th Mar 2018, 13:07
he was injured in the crash of a two-seat F84 in the States

Hmmmm. You don't see many of those. :O

Danny42C
4th Mar 2018, 14:25
Highway1 (#42),

He was a B-24 ("Liberator") pilot in the US Army Air Corps in WWII. From Wiki:

"He became the first major American movie star to wear a military uniform in World War II.[2]" ..."Following a mission to Ludwigshafen, Germany, on January 7, 1944, Stewart was promoted to major.[48][N 4] Stewart was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for actions as deputy commander of the 2nd Combat Bombardment Wing "...... "His official tally of mission credits while assigned to the 445th and 453rd Bomb Groups was 20 sorties"......"Stewart continued to go on missions uncredited, flying with the pathfinder squadron of the 389th Bombardment Group"....

Danny.

FAR CU
4th Mar 2018, 15:34
Hmmmm. You don't see many of those.

oops. . . .. . Hans more likely was saying that after his basic training he was sent in a detachment of students for an F84 course in the States. The accident that he referred to may have been in an F80, more likely. He said he was in the back seat and that his aircraft was the rear one in a diamond four landing in formation, when the accident happened..

Tankertrashnav
4th Mar 2018, 23:05
Every feckin time this subject comes up some eejit mentions the dog, like its the most important fact in the film. Give it a rest please.


Amen to that! Belongs in the same junk pile as the hoary old chestnut about Prince Harry's supposed paternity. The idiots that post them seem to think they are saying something original and amusing, instead of repeating the same old claptrap.

GLIDER 90
5th Mar 2018, 17:02
Hello All

Thanks for the replys.

Regards
Glider 90

jindabyne
5th Mar 2018, 19:09
Tanker - tick!

Nige321
5th Mar 2018, 21:12
The original has been remastered in 4K!

Dambuster film showing (http://www.close-upfilm.com/2018/02/the-dambusters-back-in-cinemas-for-one-day-only/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvYjIKNgOKw

sidtheesexist
29th Nov 2018, 06:25
Just read an interview with Peter Jackson in the DT which confirms that the re make is deffo on! I cannot wait.

clareprop
29th Nov 2018, 07:02
Apparently, to be super-inclusive and PC, the three-legged, brindle, non gender-specific dog's name is Nigella.

Pontius Navigator
29th Nov 2018, 07:34
Apparently, to be super-inclusive and PC, the three-legged, brindle, non gender-specific dog's name is Nigella.
And the film will have colour?😁

oldbeefer
29th Nov 2018, 18:59
Other war films - seem to remember that 12 o'clock High was used in my Officer Training for how to, and not to, command. Anyone else remember it from IOT?

beamer
29th Nov 2018, 19:12
Oldbeefer

Yep, I remember sitting in Whittle Hall watching Gregory Peck at his finest. I also recall watching Tunes of Glory with John Mills and Alec Guiness, again, studies in how not to command.


As for the Dambusters remake, completely unnecessary in my view. I know Peter Jackson has a fine track record but I fear we will finish up with another 'Dunkirk'.

tdracer
29th Nov 2018, 22:12
As for the Dambusters remake, completely unnecessary in my view. I know Peter Jackson has a fine track record but I fear we will finish up with another 'Dunkirk'.


Perhaps it's part of the curse of growing old, but I feel that way about nearly all remakes - especially remakes of a classic. Remakes are another symptom of how bankrupt of ideas Hollywood and company have become - they can't think of anything original so take an old screenplay, make it PC, add a bunch of hokey CGI special effects, and release it targeted to the young who haven't seen the original and don't realize what they are missing. Remake of Ben Hurr - sucked, remake of Ghost Busters - sucked, heck the only remake I can think of that I liked as well (or better) than the original was 'Heaven Can Wait" - and that was 40 years ago!

Loose rivets
29th Nov 2018, 23:31
He takes his hat off at the end.

So he does.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/888x499/1oweej_52fde83c2f76530d3741e9394c2e2a741232838b.jpg

Pontius Navigator
30th Nov 2018, 07:52
You only have to compare screen plays.

In the 1940s there was much more dialogue and a block buster would go off with a huge bang.

Today there is little dialogue and you don't miss much of you don't hear it but they call it a block buster with lots of hugs bangs.

LordGrumpy
1st Dec 2018, 09:44
Perhaps a finer idea might be. To produce a concise factual information loaded documentary and then: leave the subject alone.

Pinky the pilot
1st Dec 2018, 09:57
Perhaps a finer idea might be. To produce a concise factual information loaded documentary and then: leave the subject alone.

And that comment M'Lud, is really the only one with which I am in total agreement!:ok::ok:


Besides......AFAIC, Could anyone play Gibson as well as Richard Todd?:confused:

Pontius Navigator
1st Dec 2018, 11:42
Besides......AFAIC, Could anyone play Gibson as well as Richard Todd?:confused:

Tom Cruise?



Hat, coat, scarf . . .

TURIN
1st Dec 2018, 12:30
Reading this thread you would think no one has been to see a new film for twenty years.

There have been some extraordinary and wonderful movies every year. You just need to put your own prejudices aside and enjoy it.

I thought the new Dunkirk was incredible. My 80 yr old father exclaimed it should be compulsory viewing for teenagers.
I really enjoyed the all female Ghostbusters reboot. A Star is born with Lady Gaga is apparently well worth seeing (not seen it myself).The Magnificent Seven reboot. Great fun, nothing like the original but very enjoyable. The Italian Job, same title totally different story. Not wrong, just different.
Suffragette: Superb piece of film making, it opened my eyes.
This year we have Bohemian Rhapsody and First Man released two weeks apart, I watched both and can't decide which was best. Both unique people, both exraordinary in different ways, both changed many people's lives.

Yes, there are some stinkers but there always has been, ever since movies were first made.

I look forward to the new Dambusters film.

Edit to add...By the way the 1966 feature Thunderbirds are Go is on Film 4 at the moment. Now there is a classic. The live action version made a few years ago was utter garbage.

tdracer
1st Dec 2018, 21:17
Turin, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but apparently the majority don't agree with you.
Ghostbusters 1984 IMBd 7.8 rating, Ghostbusters 2016 IMBd 5.4 rating.
Magnificence 7 1960 IMBd 7.8, Mag 7 2016 IMBd 6.9 (BTW, I thought the 2016 remake was pretty good by remake standards, but still not up to the original)
Ben Hur 1959 IMBd 8.1, Ben Hur 2016 IMBd 5.7.
Get the idea?
In fact, looking through remakes on IMBd, the only one I could find that the remake scores higher than the original is "Oceans Eleven" - (1960 original 6.6, 2001 remake 7.8) - but it's not really a remake since the plots are so fundamentally different.
Dunkirk is interesting - people seem to either love it or hate it with little in between (personally I hated it - the non-linear time line drove me up a wall, and I found it hard to care about the fate of characters).
Not saying Hollywood and company are incapable of making good movies, just that their track record is not good - especially when it comes to remakes.

Mr Optimistic
1st Dec 2018, 21:44
Stop. Please stop. It was so long ago, it's not our lives.

TURIN
3rd Dec 2018, 09:16
Each to their own. IMDB are not the font of all knowledge and wisdom. Ask Joe Bloggs what they think of Bohemian Rhapsody and you will get a very different answer than the so called critics gave.

Mr Mac
3rd Dec 2018, 09:53
Tdracer
I think the remake of the Thomas Crown with Pierce Brosnan was one of the few remakes which in my humble opinion was better or at least on par with the original.

Regards
Mr Mac

pr00ne
3rd Dec 2018, 11:03
Pinky the Pilot,

Asy ANYONE who had met and knew Gibson and you will hear that the Richard Todd portrayal of him was about as authentic as if he had been played by lady Gaga!

Pontius Navigator
3rd Dec 2018, 12:39
Pinky the Pilot,

Asy ANYONE who had met and knew Gibson and you will hear that the Richard Todd portrayal of him was about as authentic as if he had been played by lady Gaga!
In a recent documentary one of his sqn members said he was referred to as Arch Bastard. I think this could have applied to several publicly adored airmen, Bader springs to mind, and I met another.

Haraka
3rd Dec 2018, 15:15
"Its not "Bayder" ,it's " Barder" as in Bastard!!" Apocryphally.

pr00ne
3rd Dec 2018, 16:22
I met BADER twice, and both times were thoroughly unpleasant and distasteful.

Pontius Navigator
3rd Dec 2018, 18:29
I met BADER twice, and both times were thoroughly unpleasant and distasteful.
The other BoB Ace I was alluding too was similarly !!!

As stn cdr he invited all livers in to Christmas drinks. The barman was present with bar books. As a former stn cdr he requested Hon membership; several spoke against but he avoided black balling.

Visiting the Mess the SDO greeted him in the bar. He ordered a drink, asked the SDO and then told the barman - 'this officer's bar book'. There are other stories out there.

tdracer
4th Dec 2018, 00:58
Each to their own. IMDB are not the font of all knowledge and wisdom. Ask Joe Bloggs what they think of Bohemian Rhapsody and you will get a very different answer than the so called critics gave.
IMBd is not 'critics' as such - it's pretty much a popular vote of the 'members' (and pretty much anyone can become a member simply by signing up). IMBd ratings are frequently contrary to the critics. Rotten Tomatoes 'audience score' is the same way.
I've often found movies that the critics loved that left me cold, but it's pretty rare that it goes the other way and I find a movie that the critics panned that I really liked.

Mr. Mac - the Thomas Crown remake was rather good (and I like Pierce Brosnan) - but personally I'd still go for the Steve McQueen original.

Pinky the pilot
4th Dec 2018, 08:41
Asy ANYONE who had met and knew Gibson and you will hear that the Richard Todd portrayal of him was about as authentic as if he had been played by lady Gaga!

Heard somewhat similar before, I must admit, prOOne, but my argument is that Richard Todd was probably told exactly what GG was really like and chose to play him in a somewhat more 'sympathetic' way!:hmm: (A possibly poor choice of expression but I cannot think of anything else at present):O

Besides, how would the movie had been greeted if RT played GG as he really was?:confused:

I really could not think of any current Actor who could do the same! But maybe that's just my problem!

Allan Lupton
4th Dec 2018, 12:05
Don't forget that Gibson and Todd were much the same age but the film was made ten+ years after the raid, so Todd was a 36-year-old playing the part of Gibson who was not yet 25 at the time of the raid.
Also, as has been written above, The Dam Busters film was entertainment, not documentary, so a few details still being classified hardly matters.

TractorBoy
4th Dec 2018, 13:34
Amen to that! Belongs in the same junk pile as the hoary old chestnut about Prince Harry's supposed paternity. The idiots that post them seem to think they are saying something original and amusing, instead of repeating the same old claptrap.

So you don't mind that they'll either be cutting out or altering the success code word from the film for PC reasons then....

TURIN
4th Dec 2018, 21:21
So you don't mind that they'll either be cutting out or altering the success code word from the film for PC reasons then....

No I don't mind, because its irrelevant!! Considering that much of the original was censored (for other reasons) no one gives a hoot.

For the record if they don't change the name I will not bat an eyelid, if they do change it I may smile inwardly at the reaction of the "I told you so" brigade.

MAINJAFAD
5th Dec 2018, 01:56
The other BoB Ace I was alluding too was similarly !!!

As stn cdr he invited all livers in to Christmas drinks. The barman was present with bar books. As a former stn cdr he requested Hon membership; several spoke against but he avoided black balling.

Visiting the Mess the SDO greeted him in the bar. He ordered a drink, asked the SDO and then told the barman - 'this officer's bar book'. There are other stories out there.

Bet he was one of Bader's men at one point. First name begin with a D or a J? (suspect the Latter).

Haraka
5th Dec 2018, 06:32
Second name also beginning with "J" of course. Stories ,including versions of the one by P.N. abounded around the Service in my time . (Garden earth in a Valletta anybody?)
One alleged Baderism, when whacking another leg amputee pilot( there were a few) on his "tin leg"with his stick.

"There's only room for one legless pilot in this Air force, old boy "

Pontius Navigator
5th Dec 2018, 07:25
Correct, J.

I wonder if Bader's victim was Musgrave? Stn Cdr at South Verney in '61.

jindabyne
5th Dec 2018, 10:03
(Garden earth in a Valletta anybody?)

An Argosy, Haraka :ok:

Pontius Navigator
5th Dec 2018, 10:31
Then there was the Armstrong Siddley Saphire imported as duty free but HMC wouldn't wear it, war hero or not.
​​​​​​

Barksdale Boy
5th Dec 2018, 12:42
Jindabyne: pretty certain you're right - it was an Argosy.