Airline Pay Awards 2017/18

[Boeing 7E7]

Would anyone like to comment on their own airline pay awards agreed over the last year? There appears to be a definite tightening of the jobs market for pilots and it would be interesting to see if this is being reflected in pay awards. At present we see in the media reports of noticeable pay increases by an increasing number of significant airlines. It might be helpful to collate some of this information into one place and understand some of the details.

I understand, for example that:

Aer Lingus agreed 11%
Easyjet 6%
Ryanair 20%
Thomas cook 8%?

[Rated De]

Meanwhile in the antipodes,

Connections in Australia tell me



that a foreign subsidiary on half the money is to fly the 737 domestically (in direct contravention of workplace laws) for Qantas
Another Qantas domestic subsidiary is to start flying an A320, taking flying from the domestic Qantas 737 pilots
The companies quietly lobbied for pilots to be included on skills shortage list. (announced over Christmas)

Anyone would think it were 'contract season' which amazingly expires at year end..


Naturally the union is wringing its hands, after all conditions have been 'advancing to the rear' for 30 years and organised labour representatives believe this shortage is just cyclical! :mad:


The magic eight ball tips a contract advance of MINUS 3% with offsets off course!

[whitemonk]

Jet2 = 3% + £3000

[Tricia Takanawa]

BA treading water (RPI pay rise). 1.4% of basic salary bonus. And apparently massively under crewed. Not sure these figures are going to help too much. Yr 5 A320 capt now £86k.

[MCDU2]

Percentages are meaningless without being put into context and also if starting off from a low base. Half of nothing is still nothing.

Aer Lingus took 10% off the gross of all pilots under a reorganisaton called Greenfield around 8 years ago now. With inflation that pay cut has never been restored nor will it ever be. The 11% you quote is over a 3 year period and is only just above inflation in a country which taxes over 50% once you earn a little over 30K a year.

[GKOC41]

Her Indoors, works in school (not teacher)
2018 0%
2017 0%
2016 0%
And so on
Sometimes Pilots need a reality check

[IcanCmyhousefromhere]

You think?
So we should align our recompense with who? A secretary, dinner lady, cleaner?
Maybe you could give more details for your point of view because I’m struggling to see it.

[pitotheat]

It’s pointless comparing either total pay or increases in pay across different professions. Pay is awarded with regard to retention, shortages of skills, bench marking as well as inflation. Therefore low pressure on salary increases in one sector would not translate to another at any one time. As it happens pilot shortages are driving salaries up at the moment. That will continue until the airlines feel there is no longer a problem. If Corbyn and his bunch of retards get in you will see a burgeoning and unsustainable public sector growth in size and pay. In addition many public sector jobs have annual increments in pay which is rarely mentioned in comparison tables.

[Boeing 7E7]

Her Indoors, works in school (not teacher)
2018 0%
2017 0%
2016 0%
And so on
Sometimes Pilots need a reality check

I hear you. But shouldn’t it be the other way around? It’s outrageous that teachers have not had a pay rise 3+ years (along with Nurses, midwives and countless others) while those higher up the food chain award themselves inflation busting pay rises and bonuses. Because they can.

Perhaps any anger should be directed towards them, rather than Pilots, who are attempting to do something about it?

I think we are in the same side.

[Boeing 7E7]

I hear all all your comments and understand where many of them come from.

But this thread is intended to highlight what pilot pay awards have been given or agreed in 2017/18 rather than any commentary on it. For clarity I’d be most grateful if you could set up another thread for that. I appreciate this might be difficult but would be grateful if you could. Many thanks!

[Wakarider]

BA 4.1% I believe

[clamchowder]

I understand VS have a pay deal for the next 2 or 3 years. Don't know the % if someone would like to add?

[VinRouge]

Any rise for the Norwegian chaps?

[THRILLSEEKER]

BA treading water (RPI pay rise). 1.4% of basic salary bonus. And apparently massively under crewed. Not sure these figures are going to help too much. Yr 5 A320 capt now £86k.


A senior SFO friend in BA said that they were extremely close to having to recruit DEC 2 years ago as practically all senior enough FO's didn't want SH command and were just switching to LH FO/SFO instead. The seniority number ran very low and it was only the fact they had recruited recently some experienced FO's from EZ/RYR/MON etc that they had enough very junior (in time) to BA to fill the positions. I believe one guy was even in BA less than a year before he made the juno to LH seat, admittingly he joined with over 4000Hrs but still a unbelievably short time to command in BA.

Back then I enquired about the pay levels to see if it could tempt me away from the Orange juggernaught to switch to a LGW/LHR SH CPT position if recruitment did come about.

On the pay scales back then (only 2 years ago) it would have taken me 18 YEARS to draw level to the annual BASIC that I was on (EJ Capt plus 10% annual bonus) due to having to start at Y1 captain scale in BA.. 18 YEARS! And thats without our last inflation busting circa 6% pay rise.

If Nigel does in fact have a critical shortage over Y18/19, especially in the LH seat then they are screwed to attract sufficient, if any at all, experienced and type rated captains to fill their SH fleet.

Interesting times ahead over the next 2-3 years I feel. :sad:


Not that I'd now switch - but still would ask questions IF the package were better :roll eyes:


Ps - EJ Y1 (to year I cant physically flying amore) basic now 105K without any loyalty bonus of upto 15% p/yr dependant upon length of service.

[cumulustratus]

I think the point is there are many professions that have seen no pay rise in years so the fact ours generally does increase above inflation isn't so bad. Not comparing jobs with salaries but there are many out there who work as hard or harder for less pay and no rises for several consecutive years now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we shouldn't be paid.. yes I earn more than I think any of my non flying friends but I am away from home a lot. I miss birthdays and holidays and family/friend get togethers often. I need to live close to my base etc and these things deserve a financial compensation but I think we forget that we aren't the only professionals out there and we aren't hard done by.

What a brilliant example of how Mrs Thatcher and her followers have managed to brainwash an entire population into thinking that a worker demanding a pay rise is somehow stealing money from another worker in a completely unrelated profession. Workers claiming better reward for their Labour needs to be measured against the profit of the business owners/shareholders. A fair balance
between return on capital for investors and reward/work for employees needs to be established. In modern civilization, where the wealth of the few is growing much faster than the average resources of the population in general, a capital investment shouldnt necessarily be guaranteed continuous used exponential growth.

If any of these concepts seem foreign to you, then please join your local union and let those who do grasp them speak for you. And for your own benefit, don't join a certain low cost carrier who feeds off of employees as yourself.I think the point is there are many professions that have seen no pay rise in years so the fact ours generally does increase above inflation isn't so bad. Not comparing jobs with salaries but there are many out there who work as hard or harder for less pay and no rises for several consecutive years now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we shouldn't be paid.. yes I earn more than I think any of my non flying friends but I am away from home a lot. I miss birthdays and holidays and family/friend get togethers often. I need to live close to my base etc and these things deserve a financial compensation but I think we forget that we aren't the only professionals out there and we aren't hard done by.

What a brilliant example of how Mrs Thatcher and her followers have managed to brainwash an entire population into thinking that a worker demanding a pay rise is somehow stealing money from another worker in a completely unrelated profession. Workers claiming better reward for their labour needs to be measured against the profit of the business owners/shareholders. A fair balance between return on capital for investors and reward/work for employees needs to be established. In modern civilization, where the wealth of the few is growing much faster than the average resources of the population in general, a capital investment shouldn't necessarily be guaranteed continuous exponential growth.

If any of these concepts seem foreign to you, then please join your local union and let those who do grasp them speak for you. And for your own benefit, don't join a certain low cost carrier who feeds off of employees as yourself.

[Snapper5]

From the top of my head I believe VS is a 4% rise which makes a year 1 FO around £72k (fixed flight pay of 16k per year ) probably add $12k for beer tokens on top of that .

[Flocks]

Flybe had a 3 years increased plan.
Basic from 64K£ then 67K£ (currently) to 70K£ (1st April 2018)

More less an increase of 10% over 3 years.

Pilot have also now a limit of 750hr a year, an extra night stop payment and an extra over time payment (more than 75hr a month)

[EAM]

I understand, for example that:

Aer Lingus agreed 11%
Easyjet 6%
Ryanair 20%
Thomas cook 8%?

Well, that only makes sense if you add on how many years this will run.
As far as I know the RYR is 20% over 5 years (2017 5%, 2018 5%, 2019 5% ....)
otherwise its a confusing information.

[Trossie]

Flybe had a 3 years increased plan.

... ...

Pilot have also now a limit of 750hr a year, an extra night stop payment and an extra over time payment (more than 75hr a month)Now isn't that worth more in real value than the money?

[Boeing 7E7]

And what of our colleagues in the US or mainland Europe? Anyone know?

[zero/zero]

A senior SFO friend in BA said...

Wow... he/she must be pretty Sss...enior

[A38lephant]

And what of our colleagues in the US or mainland Europe? Anyone know?

I believe delta got circa 33% last year on their basic. Yes, that’s 33 with no decimal points between the 3s 😮

[Pilotless]

The expectation of pay 'award' bemuses me, not only in the term itself (an award for what?), but the expectation that an employer is somehow duty-bound to pay more for nothing in return. No they are not.

Doubters of this hard-nosed view might like to heed the demise of 3,000 jobs at Toys R Us and 2,500 jobs at Maplin due to work practices and technological innovation at Amazon and othr Gig economy operators, as a marker to future pilot job security - irrespective of the swingometer suggesting an uptick in demand.

As airlines stand to make huge savings from artificial intelligence and autonomous aircraft, pilots should make themselves as cheap as possible if they are to justify their existence in 10 to 15 years from now, look ahead a bit and drop altogether ideas their 'value' to employers. Regretfully, the job is already beyond its sell-by-date and justification making any pay 'award' is unwarranted; a pay decrease, maybe.

[Kakpipe Cosmonaut]

If aircraft are to be autonomous in 10-15 years time it doesn't matter how 'cheap' they are, they'll still be obsolete.

[ReallyAnnoyed]

No idea from which level the pay comes though, but a hefty rise percentage wise at least:


Spirit pilots ratify long-term contract, ending 3-year labor struggle | Labor content from ATWOnline (http://atwonline.com/labor/spirit-pilots-ratify-long-term-contract-ending-3-year-labor-struggle)

[clamchowder]

So, pilotless, you'll save us all by putting yourself forward for the CC at your respective airline with that tag line. I wonder how many will tell you you're insane?
If we are redundant in 10-15 years (bull****) might as well milk 'em while we can!

Serious note, I understand SAS Ireland based at LHR (contractors) are getting a pay increase quite soon. Again, don't know specifics.

[flyingmed]

No idea from which level the pay comes though, but a hefty rise percentage wise at least:


Spirit pilots ratify long-term contract, ending 3-year labor struggle | Labor content from ATWOnline (http://atwonline.com/labor/spirit-pilots-ratify-long-term-contract-ending-3-year-labor-struggle)

"an average 43% pay increase effective on the date of signing" :D

[macdo]

The expectation of pay 'award' bemuses me, not only in the term itself (an award for what?), but the expectation that an employer is somehow duty-bound to pay more for nothing in return. No they are not.

Doubters of this hard-nosed view might like to heed the demise of 3,000 jobs at Toys R Us and 2,500 jobs at Maplin due to work practices and technological innovation at Amazon and othr Gig economy operators, as a marker to future pilot job security - irrespective of the swingometer suggesting an uptick in demand.

As airlines stand to make huge savings from artificial intelligence and autonomous aircraft, pilots should make themselves as cheap as possible if they are to justify their existence in 10 to 15 years from now, look ahead a bit and drop altogether ideas their 'value' to employers. Regretfully, the job is already beyond its sell-by-date and justification making any pay 'award' is unwarranted; a pay decrease, maybe.

You get pay award/increases whatever you want to call them for two reasons.
1. To allow for inflation, otherwise you are taking a cut every year.
2. To share in the good times, so not only the board of directors fill their pockets.
and...... To make up for the times when the same b.o.d's have come to you and asked you to take a pay cut because times are hard.

Get real! We aren't shelf stackers and checkout staff at Maplins ToysRus. Who probably wouldn't be losing their jobs if the overpaid BoD's had done their jobs properly.

[hans brinker]

Finally signed new contract after 3 years. Rates went up 50%. We are still about 30% behind same equipment rates at the US Legacy carriers.
Average pre-tax/year 2nd year FO $110.000, 5 year PIC $210.000. Additional 11-15 % added by company to pension fund.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Just to clear up any confusion, pilotless is either a former BA legacy cabin crew employee who was shown the door for being a prat, and hates pilots, or a current legacy cabin crew member who is a prat, and hates pilots.

Offer up a silent prayer for this individual - imagine being that bitter and twisted you spend time spewing bile on a forum for people you hate instead of getting on with your life.

I hope they find peace.

[Tommy Gavin]

Interesting to keep this thread on top as there are quite a few T&C's to be renegotiated this year. It's possibly the best year for negotiations in over a decade.