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View Full Version : Why do people live near airports & then complain?


GLIDER 90
26th Feb 2018, 12:46
Afternoon All

Something which I have never been able to work out, is why do some people choose to live next to a airport and then start quibbing about the noise. The airport itself as been there for probably 50 or 60 years longer than them, with the aircraft been a lot quieter, noise levels reduced and less pollution. You should move away if not happy with your surroundings!!

Uplinker
26th Feb 2018, 14:11
Excuse my language, but it is because some people are :mad:

The same thing happens near Churches. Some ******** moves in near the Church and within weeks starts complaining about the bells ringing, or the clock chiming. “So tell me, when you were looking at the house you were interested in, did you not notice the very large stone building that has been there for 500-700 years? It has a tower at one end, so is visible above the buildings and trees, but you still did not see it? Did you look at an Ordnance Survey map and note what there was around the house?”.

People move into London under the approach flightpath of Heathrow and then complain about the airplane noise. LOOK AT A BLOODY MAP BEFORE YOU BUY A HOUSE !

Sorry, this is one of my bugbears - Do people move within earshot of a motorway or railway and then demand the traffic be stopped ? They probably do actually.

GLIDER 90
26th Feb 2018, 14:20
Uplinker

Well said!

Cheers

good egg
26th Feb 2018, 16:36
While I share the general sentiment there are some exceptions...

1) Flightpath changes
2) Numbers of flights
3) Aircraft types (and, to an extent, altitudes flown)

...if, for instance, a “nearby” airport produced an ACP which included a PRNAV flightpath directly over my house, then airlines used that route for numerous long-haul, heavy, slow-climbing aircraft, then I wouldn’t be best pleased. Especially if those flights were early morning or late at night.

My house is “near” a major airport, overflown by arrivals to/departures from a more distant major airport. I don’t consider it an issue as things are. I factored it in when I bought the house. But if that changed and affected me and my family I’d feel justified to grumble about it.

There are social benefits, of course, but dismissing environmental concerns (in this case noise) is a little foolhardy IMHO.

There’s a balance to be struck, or a settlement to be made.

WilliumMate
26th Feb 2018, 16:50
Probably 15 or so years ago a City chap bought a nice house somewhere further south which had a branch line running close to the bottom of the garden. What he didn't realise was that there was a 'whistle board' there as well to tell drivers to whistle up to warn users of a foot crossing a bit further up the line. City chap was not happy and complained to the local council. The local council then slapped a noise abatement order on Railtrack, as it was then called. Railtrack took council to the High Court, council told not to be so stupid. City chap had to lump it.

Wodrick
26th Feb 2018, 17:53
I have the same thing with Dogs. They knew we had dogs, they hate dogs but still bought and moved in. By way of complaining they walked up the track, wound the dogs up, filmed them and went to the police with their film. I have been told by a reliable source that they were laughed out of the station.

chevvron
26th Feb 2018, 17:54
It's the same with those pompous idiots who buy themselves a cottage in the countryside then complain about being woken at dawn by cocks crowing.
IT'S THE COUNTRYSIDE; people keep chickens there!
Siiliest I heard (and I admit I've posted it before) was the lady who went knocking on doors in Fulham with a petition to get the football club closed down.
Didn't she notice the football stadium (established in 1879) with it's 100 odd ft tall floodlight towers nearby when she paid one and a quarter million quid for her house? Did she not realise the signs on lamp posts and telephone poles pointing out that parking restrictions would apply on matchdays applied to residents as well as football supporters?

GLIDER 90
26th Feb 2018, 18:04
Hello Good Egg

In reply to your comments I understand what you are saying, but to be fair with living near to a major airport those are the risks you take when buying a property especially a major airport. With regards to dismissing the environmental concerns which I would never do, I did say in my thread with quieter aircraft where noise levels are reduced with less pollution. I have lived in Lincolnshire all my life and lived 3 miles from RAF Scampton & RAF Waddington which were home to the Vulcan Bombers as you can imagine made a lot of noise when taking off all times of the day & night. Far noisier than of the aircraft now but no one made a fuss.

Regards
Glider 90

dook
26th Feb 2018, 18:15
Reminds me of the Singing Postman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZYkse1x-ys

Piltdown Man
26th Feb 2018, 18:25
But Glider, people did complain. But they were told to “P!ss off!” by a nice chap who job it was to tell people to p!ss off. Some forces chappies even responded with a “Madam, that is the sound of freedom”. But I’ll have to say things this is have been a problem for years. The problem is the law. And after you have met a few lawyers, you’ll see what the problem is with law. And who makes the law? A far worse form of scum called a politician.

We used to have complaints about our towing operation at our gliding club. On some days we’ve even had complaints about the noise of airbrakes and winch wires. I’m sure there are people who complain about the sounds coming from conversations in monestaries housing silent orders. Not until common sense prevails will things change. (So nothing is going to happen any time soon). There is nothing so stupid as members of the public which is why voting involves nothing too taxing for their brain, just their normal signature.

GLIDER 90
26th Feb 2018, 19:07
Hello Piltdown Man

Not where we lived!

good egg
26th Feb 2018, 19:43
Hey glider

No worries. I’m merely saying it’s not as simple as saying “choose to live near an airport and expect to put up with the noise”.
Times change, routes change, aircraft profiles change.
I live in a relatively rural idyll. Still close to airport(s) but far enough from current flightpaths that it’s not an issue.
I don’t really mind a bit of distant roar.
But I do understand people who have bought a house in a similar situation who have then had changes imposed on them to their detriment (environmentally, through noise/pollution...and even financially, in terms of house price) due to re-alignment of flightpaths.

I’m easy-come-easy-go. Some people are more affected by noise than me (as with any aspect in life).

I don’t think that current policy on airspace change is particularly transparent (despite consultations) or entirely fair. But then what is?

With Brexit looming there is added importance to “connectability” for UK plc. Whether that can be achieved fairly/equitably is questionable, on many fronts.

G-CPTN
26th Feb 2018, 20:14
http://images.archant.co.uk/polopoly_fs/1.4629996.1469428377!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_630/image.jpg

http://www.hertsad.co.uk/polopoly_fs/1.4629997!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_630/image.jpg

Luton Airport flight path changes unfair to Hertfordshire residents (http://www.hertsad.co.uk/news/luton-airport-flight-path-changes-unfair-to-hertfordshire-residents-1-4630000).

Luton Airport expansion unsuitable (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-42625455).

The proposed expansion to more than double Luton's passenger numbers is both unsuitable to the local area and unsustainable in the context of the constraints that exist in rural Hertfordshire.
Campaign group LADACAN claims aircraft noise has increased tenfold since 2013.

Trinity 09L
26th Feb 2018, 20:22
I have resided around LHR since 1973. I miss the tridents,707, VC10 etc. �� I only complain about the out of hours aircraft if noisy. R3 will be a disaster and a rude awakening.

racedo
26th Feb 2018, 20:28
Is that lady in the big place in Windsor complaining .................... AGAIN.

Surely she could have built that castle somewhere else...

G-CPTN
26th Feb 2018, 20:30
In the very early 1970s, I lived within sight of Luton Airport and was woken in the very early hours every morning by the departure of a Court Line BAC 1/11 ripping open the sky as it departed directly away from my house.

Trinity 09L
26th Feb 2018, 20:35
Is that lady in the big place in Windsor complaining .................... AGAIN.

Surely she could have built that castle somewhere else...

One has one staff to complain. One has returned from the Norfolk retreat to easterly ops. :rolleyes:

ExSp33db1rd
26th Feb 2018, 20:49
I know this is a repeat, but .... I like the story of the UK Council ( forget where ) who were asked to close down what had origionally been a USAF WWII airstrip somewhere in the green fields of that Green and Pleasant Land. The Council, in favour of the retention of a now busy, revenue producing, airport attended a protest meeting, and projected a photo of the original airstrip on to the stage, literally just an airstrip with a couple of attendant buildings surrounded by green fields. The presenter then pointed to one of the protesters in the audience and said .. "Now Sir, please come up and show us YOUR house"

Collapse of Stout Party.

Our local aero club were recently asked, as were all neighbours, to comment on the proposed development of an adjoining section of land, as required by local government rules. We responded that we had no objection, but suggested that a clause be inserted in the Consent Approval, that no one would ever be allowed to object to living in the vicinity of the existing airport. Unfortunately our suggestion was ignored.

In my experience aeroplanes get up and go, whereas lawnmowers, strimmers, chain saws, outboard motors being cleaned out before being taken home, kindergartens ..... ?

charliegolf
26th Feb 2018, 20:56
Didn't Madogga do that- bought a country pile near a long established airfield dahn sarf and immediately whining about it?

CG

Trossie
26th Feb 2018, 21:22
LOOK AT A BLOODY MAP BEFORE YOU BUY A HOUSE !Thanks to modern schooling, most do not appear able to read maps.

Windy Militant
26th Feb 2018, 21:38
Didn't Madogga do that- bought a country pile near a long established airfield dahn sarf and immediately whining about it?

CG

Apparently she didn't It was someone name dropping to try and get the field shut down. But it back fired as she got her helicopter refuelled at said strip and so was happy to have it there.

Had a friend who ran a model club got a visit from the local plod due to a noise complaint from an overlooking block of flats.
The Constable leapt out of the panda car all officious and ready to book em Dan-o, however the sergeant following took one look and burst out laughing.
Turned out he knew my mate and the fact that this was a Model Glider club.
Sarge was also a modeller so spent nearly an hour flying with them before departing back to the station. ;)

RedhillPhil
26th Feb 2018, 22:06
Probably 15 or so years ago a City chap bought a nice house somewhere further south which had a branch line running close to the bottom of the garden. What he didn't realise was that there was a 'whistle board' there as well to tell drivers to whistle up to warn users of a foot crossing a bit further up the line. City chap was not happy and complained to the local council. The local council then slapped a noise abatement order on Railtrack, as it was then called. Railtrack took council to the High Court, council told not to be so stupid. City chap had to lump it.



Remember those two girls that were killed whilst using the foot crossing at Elsenham a few years ago? There used to be whistle boards there for the crossing but the local nimbys put pressure - and succeeded - in getting them removed by Network Rail.
It wasn't the lack of an audible warning per se that caused the fatalities, it was just one more contributing factor in a catalogue of unfortunate and tragic occurances.

ShotOne
26th Feb 2018, 22:17
At Manchester airport we have a dedicated group who lodge noise complaints without fail for every departure. Last year several hundred complaints were lodged BEFORE the aircraft took off. They had set up automatic software to file the complaint but forgotten about the clock change.

jack11111
26th Feb 2018, 22:29
Previously:

"Why do people live near airports & then complain?"

For the same reason a dog licks his nuts...because he CAN.

Jump Complete
26th Feb 2018, 22:47
I once read in a book about Concorde, that during the flight test programme, there were noise complaints about the Supersonic runs up the Irish sea. On one occasion, the timings of the runs were published but the flight did not go ahead. Noise complaints were still recieved!

ExSp33db1rd
26th Feb 2018, 22:55
The most tragic example going on at the moment is the action of the Santa Monica, California, council who have been trying to close down the iconic Douglas aircraft airport, KSMO, near the coast just North of LAX for a few years now. The FAA have managed to stop them until 2025, but the council have retaliated by making large lengths of the runway at each end unuseable. The airport is still "open", but unuseable to all but the smallest aircraft. Another dodge that they suggested was to refuse to renew the refuelling facility leases, i.e. you could fly in but not buy fuel to fly out, was the idea, but I think that they backed off that when they thought of the runway shortening gambit.
The S.M. Council claim to want to turn the land into a Public Recreational Park, Yeah ! Right !, just watch the multi high rise, property tax producing,more street clogging car producing, buildings go up once they have the land in their evil grasp.

Barstewards.

Thanks to modern schooling, most do not appear able to read maps.

They just Ask Siri.

RatherBeFlying
26th Feb 2018, 23:11
At one of my previous glider clubs, real estate agents would list a house a half mile down the takeoff path in January. Come March or April the new owner would discover a longstanding glider operation with some 3,000 aerotow launches a year:uhoh:

A few miles away, a rural estate subdivision was put in and the half dozen or so new rural homeowners spent a few years badgering Transport Canada and the rural municipality with noise complaints, even though they were well away from our usual towplane flight paths.

Unfortunately the rural municipality had been forceably amalgamated with the big city twenty odd miles distant. The big city bylaw officers would sniff about, but had no background in rural issues and preexisting uses.

Calgary added a new runway and changed the approach and departure routes to the annoyance of certain neighborhoods. Those folks would be much happier with a glider club as neighbors.

Ken Borough
27th Feb 2018, 05:39
Come to Oz and read about or listen to the complaints about noise from wind farms. The complainants whine more than a fleet of HS748s or F27s winding up!

sitigeltfel
27th Feb 2018, 06:25
We have a similar issue here with a dog and cat shelter for strays. It was built fifty years ago, well away from homes so that barking and howling wouldn't be an issue. Since then the expansion of the town has seen luxury housing built close to it and guess what, the buyers have been complaining about the noise. Many of the properties are second homes, only used in summer. Bizarrely, the home owners won a case against the shelter and it was given six months to find a solution. The core problem was that some of the dog pens faced the new homes and didn't have sound proofing, which was never needed before.
A big effort was made to rehome many of the dogs to other centres and raise cash for new soundproof kennels and that is where my charity cash has gone.
The fund raising has been a success and work has begun on the new facilities.

FullOppositeRudder
27th Feb 2018, 06:33
A few decades ago our gliding club - a winch operation - had a few glorious months with a couple of farming brothers who wanted better utilisation of their Auster. A compliant tail hook was discovered somewhere and speedily fitted, and they were granted a hasty endorsement for glider towing. They used to fly the 35+ miles to our strip every afternoon on the weekend, and we made good use of their generous offer. Most of us became familiar with swinging the prop, and the varied ritual of priming, and turns back and forward before the magic word was uttered from the cockpit, and the Gipsy spluttered into life on the next pull (or not).

Unfortunately one of the ladies in the nearby village was aghast at these goings on, and demanded to speak to the 'person in charge'. Our club president went down to see what it was all about. She started the discussion by pointing out this 'glider behind an aeroplane' thing was quite illegal, but she hadn't called the police so far, and wouldn't if we stopped doing it straight away. Our man was able to bring her right up to date on that one ....

It turned out the real problem was that her chooks had gone off the lay somewhat, and the egg numbers were well down on what was there last year. Our man was also a poultry farmer, and asked to meet the chooks. These turned out to be a rather motley 'moth eaten' group - perhaps ten at the most, of somewhat aged poultry "How old would they be?" he asked. She wasn't sure - perhaps four or five years, which co-incided somewhat with his estimate, albeit on the low low side perhaps.

At that point in the discussion the Auster with client aircraft in station went over the top at about 600 feet. The poultry were completely unmoved by this daring 'attack' and went on with their business in complete ignorance of the 'near miss'.

Our bloke, ever the diplomat, said that in future the combination would avoid overflying the premises as much as would be safely possible, and also suggested the perhaps it was time to retire the present flock and start with some new 'point of lay' youngsters. The troubled waters were stilled, and he took his leave with her almost apologetic for troubling us. We don't know if she took his advice and retired the old girls.

We didn't have any more problems. In point of fact, she had probably lived there for fifty or so years, so we were the new kids on the block relatively speaking. Eventually our friends sold the Auster and we went back to our winches. It was fun while it lasted.

It still is.

FOR

Zeus
27th Feb 2018, 07:22
A school friend became an estate agent and advised to "spend time in the area" if we were serious about buying a property.
These were wise words and we narrowly avoided buying a place that was close to a hidden railway cutting that carried heavy freight traffic. Estate agents would time their visits for when the trains weren't running.
An ex bought a place in Bracknell and ignored the "spend some time there" rule only to find that her little bit of heaven was under Concorde's flight path. She had a dreadful time trying to sell it and finally sold it to an air trafficker who loved the fact that you could see the aircraft "up close and personal".

Kiltrash
27th Feb 2018, 07:33
Not aircraft noise put street Parking
We have friends who have lived for several years near a popular lo co airport to the north of London
Now due to the high cost of parking at said airport the local resident roads are infested with holidaymakers leaving their cars for 7-14 days in residential roads and as they are not resident permit zones there is nothing the locals can do, unless drop kerbs are blocked then tickets can be issued
Friend return from work and cant park within 300 yards of their house

One of the downsides to living near a major popular destination

gruntie
27th Feb 2018, 07:50
They also do it by living near a racetrack (of the car variety), out in the sticks, built round an old airfield, been there 70+ years, etc. Every house & cottage for miles around does B&B and they are booked solid every race and track day: local garages & bodyshops get endless work from the inevitable “offs”. Some prat knocked on my door and asked if I would sign a petition to ban it: I replied that I would sign a petition to ban HIM, but if he wanted my scrawl on his miserable piece of paper then he could stick it where the sun didn’t shine.......

In the original vein I remember reading about a group of influential residents in Belgium who managed to get a small harmless GA field closed down. Celebrations were short-lived however as nearby Zaventem straightened their approach paths and instead of the occasional Cessna overhead, the erstwhile residents benefited from regular laden DC10s etc which quite drowned out the cries of ‘serve you right’.

G-CPTN
27th Feb 2018, 07:56
Luton Airport holidaymakers' cars vandalised on side streets (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-40862367).

pulse1
27th Feb 2018, 08:27
I remember flying with a captain the other year and on final approach I asked for props to max. He replied 'Can you just wait another mile..' so I complied and in about a mile props went up. I queried it later expecting some technical or airmanship reason. He replied 'My wifes friend lives about there and she's rather annoying and complains to me about the noise of aircraft into the airport so I like to time bringing up the props coming up to her house for added effect'.

Generally I am one of these crazy people who loves aircraft noise and yearn for the days, almost every day, when BAC1-11 training and testing used to rip the sky apart with that awful, chest throbbing noise. And the CAT Barons used to return from their late night navex, sounding a bit like a Merlin.

However, I am sometimes tempted to complain, not to the airport, but to the operators of various commercial flight training organisations who allow, or maybe encourage, their students to go into fine pitch well before the procedure turn onto the ILS. The sound of a Duchess, in fine pitch, droning slowly round that turn creates a most irritating noise which disturbs the rural peace for too long. I know it isn't necessary because most of them leave their pitch change until they are established on the ILS. I'm guessing that the noisy ones are probably the less experienced students who are being given less to worry about during that critical phase of the approach but that doesn't make it less annoying.

arketip
27th Feb 2018, 09:34
Why do people live near airports & then complain?

Easy, because the land/house is cheap to buy because of the airport.

Boxkite Montgolfier
27th Feb 2018, 10:03
There is a great deal of smugness and nonsense written on this thread by individuals who congratulate themselves for not living near or under a flightpath!
My family have endured unnecessary aircraft noise for considerably longer than Heathrow's modern existence and now they want to increase noise and pollution yet again!
It infuriates me, as a retired military and commercial pilot watching the latest protégées blanket approach paths by dropping their gear early.
Necessity for early gear deployment are rare but I watch some clowns boring into LHR with needless regularity having deployed gear well over 20 miles from touchdown.
BA are very good generally but foreign operators and Virgin should be aware of the consequences and should not be surprised when their individual flights are complained about.
The supposition that people buy houses under a flight path and then complain is in many cases arrant rubbish!

hiflymk3
27th Feb 2018, 10:39
Lived in Fulham in the 70/80s under the Heathrow arrivals flightpath. I could usually identify the aircraft by the noise and they were noisier then, especially Concorde which always turned heads up. Never bothered me, the din from road traffic was just as loud.

Captivep
27th Feb 2018, 12:35
IIRC, Turweston has an unusual circuit pattern because some high-flying lawyer (pardon the pun) bought a house which had sat under the approach for decades and managed to force them to change it.

G-CPTN
27th Feb 2018, 12:56
In 1971, I bought a house in a village near Thurleigh, and was delighted to meet Concorde 'flying down the High Street' during crew familiarisation flights before entering commercial service.

ShyTorque
27th Feb 2018, 13:54
A school friend became an estate agent and advised to "spend time in the area" if we were serious about buying a property.
These were wise words and we narrowly avoided buying a place that was close to a hidden railway cutting that carried heavy freight traffic. Estate agents would time their visits for when the trains weren't running.A school friend became an estate agent and advised to "spend time in the area" if we were serious about buying a property.
These were wise words and we narrowly avoided buying a place that was close to a hidden railway cutting that carried heavy freight traffic. Estate agents would time their visits for when the trains weren't running.In the year 2000 my wife and I went to view two houses in a village, same estate agent for both.

The first was described as "in a quiet location". As we turned into the driveway, we couldn't help but "notice" the inter city express train roaring at 120 mph along the embankment at the bottom of the garden. I reversed out....

We drove a few hundred yards to the second house. We couldn't help but notice the rows of sandbags outside the adjacent front doors along the main street and the muddy brown tidemark two feet up the walls of the houses, where the river had been only a few months previously.

We still don't live in that village.

pulse1
27th Feb 2018, 14:18
In 1971, I bought a house in a village near Thurleigh, and was delighted to meet Concorde 'flying down the High Street' during crew familiarisation flights before entering commercial service.

I wonder if you were a neighbour of someone I employed in Bedford a few years earlier to work permanent nights. Before starting the job he very quickly bought a house in the country where he thought it would be possible to sleep during the day. Too late, he discovered that his house was on the centre line of one of the Thurleigh runways. This was during the trials of the blind landing system which involved endless circuits by a suitably equipped Varsity, trundling round over his head every 10 minutes or so. There was no respite even during low visibility as it appeared that they were more likely to be out there testing it for real.

nonsense
27th Feb 2018, 14:40
Roughly 16 years ago I moved into a home right next to a suburban commuter railway line. Having lived in the general area for much of my life I was aware there were some freight trains on the line; it turned out to be 4 each day, at about noon, late afternoon, midnight and 4am. So I posted to a usenet group (remember them?) dedicated to local rail, asking about the freight trains and got a bollocking from one of the grumpier regulars for complaining about a trainline which preceded my arrival by over a century. In fact I was just curious what the trains were (steel products) and where they were going (Hastings, for the Melbourne, Aus, folks), which someone else politely explained to me.

Soon afterwards, a friend of mine (who, coincidentally works for the steel company!) lost her flatmate who moved to the far side of town to be closer to her nursing course. Flatmate rented a nice ground floor flat a short walk from the hospital, completely failing to notice the enormous railway bridge over the main road nearby. We were actually moving her furniture in the first time a train went past in the cutting 20 feet from her bedroom window; obviously she got no sympathy from me!

About six years ago, my friend (the one who works for the steel company) decided to move closer to her new job site; we spent about a year searching for the perfect 3 car garage with an acceptable home attached (she's an engineer, we're like that). Bizarrely the local estate agents never twigged that we were buying a garage, not a house, nor for that matter that I was merely the decoy partner. Anyway, moving day came, and once again we're lugging furniture. It's a nice sunny autumn day, easter, not much wind, and seemingly every pilot in Melbourne is practising their touch and go landings at Moorabbin, which entails a circuit pretty much exactly over my friend's new house... Despite a year of Saturdays spent gazing at houses in the area she'd never noticed the aircraft overhead. She was almost panicking, but like my trains, she barely notices them any more, and unlike my trains, they are very weather dependent anyway. In fact we got chatting to one of the neighbours yesterday, who wanted her to be upset about the planes and she just couldn't be bothered argueing...

Now somebody mentioned churches; I grew up about a hundred metres from a church and primary school. Parking was at a premium on Sundays, the occasional funeral and the daily school-o'clock pickup, but when we first moved in in the 1970s, they had no bell tower. About a decade ago they built one (neglecting to obtain planning permission first), installed a nice bell, and behind the bell, a loudspeaker. The council quite rightly stomped on their ambitions for hourly bells, but they were allowed one at 6pm. And so every evening at 6pm, we'd hear: "hisssssss_BONG_BONG_BONG_BONG_BONG_BONG_hisssssss", at least until the sheer tackiness of it drove the parishoners to insist the church desist...

And finally, just last year I left the steel train behind and moved close to Moorabbin airport, where many evenings about 11pm, I hear a pair of Oxford training aircraft return from Warrnambool, reminding me it is perhaps time for bed. This afternoon, a lovely mild late summer day, as we had lunch, the sky was positively alive. And frankly, I reckon they were all having more fun than the passengers on the trains going past my old place.

I live in a city. There are noises, some of them regular like the steel trains and the Oxford trainers and the hum of traffic every morning. And yes, I even lived next to a lost dogs's shelter and a freeway when I was a student. And the rent reflected the salubrious location...

ShyTorque
27th Feb 2018, 15:49
Years ago the land next to our house was farmland, including floodplain. The farmer couldn't grow much on it because it is dense clay and either too wet to get a tractor over, or rock hard to the plough. He sold it to a housing developer. The first half was built on, the rest lay fallow for a while, due to the housing slump. We moved away for a few years, due to a job move. We let the house out till we came back to the area. On our return, a lady soon appeared at our door, trying to get me to join her campaign against the second phase of the housing development. I told her the planning permission had already been passed, which it had. She didn't seem to believe me. I asked her why she was objecting and she replied that it would ruin the village. I then asked her where she actually lived...She lived on the first phase of the new development! I laughed out loud and told her she was objecting to the same development as the one she actually lived on. She hasn't spoken to me in the twenty years since.

As an aside, the owners of the new houses built on floodplain have very major issues with rising damp. No surprise there then.

Lantern10
27th Feb 2018, 19:29
It's because the snowflakes belong to the me me me me generation

Doctor Cruces
27th Feb 2018, 19:40
Holbeach Range, late eighties. 0905 and the first 4 A10s have just strafed the panels and off round for the next run. Telephone rings, posh voice asks how long this is going to go on for and has a fit when he's told all day, 9 - 5, Mon - Fri.

It seems hes just bought a dirty great bungalow for his retirement from the City, quite cheaply, just over the sea wall from the range. Obviously done no research and it transpires he only saw the property once, on a Bank Holiday week end.

GLIDER 90
27th Feb 2018, 20:33
Evening Doctor Cruces

Sounds about right!!

Glider 90

racedo
27th Feb 2018, 22:05
Friends had bought a house where all of a sudden after new funding one of the services started using a feature close to it for helicopter training. Not been used before.

On one occasion as he out in Garden cleaning up, crew decided it would be fun to hover lower and lower, he went in called up the base and put through to a V Senior Hofficer who told him no way would they hover lower than 1500 ft, he stepped out with phone and got immediate apology, crew still playing around until got a clear message from base to FO for tea and biscuits. He had photos as well but did have a nice visit from Hofficer Sqdn lesder who he said he shared tea and biscuits with as brought as way of apology.

Second occassion they using that and other point for night flying, called at 1 am which meant he was giving them lots of leeway. Got a poor response until he reminded person that his neighbour was local MP and very very supportive of military and he had visited him earlier than evening. Perhaps if when he called around to bring him to station in nearest town for train to London he could mention it. Amazingly got a call from someone quite senior apologising next morning.
He did mention to MP, who visited said base couple of months later as part of constituebcy duty, met the Officer who had rang to apologise and MP said he had been asked to ask for him as been very helpful and polite when neighbour had called and had written to MOD to highlight this.

Friends found out a week or two later when Hofficer rang to say thanks and got given direct number for duty officer to call anytime with any issues.

Sometimes once an idiot gets into a plane / helicopter there is no way seniors know what they get up to.

It works both ways.

ExSp33db1rd
28th Feb 2018, 00:59
Once lived just down the Gt. West Road from Heathrow. The early morning, still dark, departure of the then BOAC York Freighter using 10L came straight overhead at about 50', apprently only achieving aviation due to the curvature of the Earth !

Magic !

I have a bumper sticker that states " I LOVE the noise of aircraft". I bought it in support of the Save Santa Monica airport group, but don't dare display it in Santa Monica lest I get a brick through my windscreen ( or worse, doubtless Trump will support the arming of airport protesters ? ) and it is a bit pointless here in N.Z., but I still display it !

eal401
28th Feb 2018, 14:09
Necessity for early gear deployment are rare but I watch some clowns boring into LHR with needless regularity having deployed gear well over 20 miles from touchdown.

Gear down 20 miles from touchdown at Heathrow? As regular SLF into Heathrow on a variety of airlines, that's getting filed into the "Never happened" drawer.

ExRAFRadar
28th Feb 2018, 15:07
Always the way.

I've heard of several airports with massive noise complaint issues but on investigation they only comeback to the same (relatively) 'few' people lodging the same complaints so 3000+ complaints suddenly loses a lot if weight and is largely ignored.

I remember flying with a captain the other year and on final approach I asked for props to max. He replied 'Can you just wait another mile..' so I complied and in about a mile props went up. I queried it later expecting some technical or airmanship reason. He replied 'My wifes friend lives about there and she's rather annoying and complains to me about the noise of aircraft into the airport so I like to time bringing up the props coming up to her house for added effect'.

What a thoroughly professional pilot. Unless of course it didn't happen.

WilliumMate
28th Feb 2018, 16:51
Gear down 20 miles from touchdown at Heathrow? As regular SLF into Heathrow on a variety of airlines, that's getting filed into the "Never happened" drawer.

Spent a couple of days at the National Archives last summer (I know life on the wild side, oh yes) and spent lunchtime in the gardens watching the arrivals pass overhead. Most if not all were just getting the gear down approaching Kew.

pulse1
28th Feb 2018, 17:04
On my one and only jet flight from Little Rissington in a JP5 I was told to avoid a particular house as we climbed to the North. As we were climbing through about 8000' at the time I was surprised that some NIMBY could make trouble for flights at that height and it must be difficult to avoid as, from that height, the cone of noise must be quite large.

visibility3miles
28th Feb 2018, 17:10
I've heard of one real estate agent telling customers that they would live three miles away from the nearby general aviation airport [BY ROAD] without mentioning that it was a half mile away as the crow flies.

Liar! Or at least very disingenuous...

No wonder the buyers were unpleasantly surprised.

twb3
28th Feb 2018, 17:24
I have the good fortune of living near a small airport that is the base for at least three flying Stearmans. It's always a pleasure to enjoy the sound of a proper big round engine as they fly over - somtimes all three in formation!

Seriously, though, not doing one's due diligence before buying seems endemic. Here we have people that build or buy on the floodplain and then are surprised when their house becomes a submarine in the spring.

DaveReidUK
28th Feb 2018, 17:51
Gear down 20 miles from touchdown at Heathrow? As regular SLF into Heathrow on a variety of airlines, that's getting filed into the "Never happened" drawer.

Well it might happen occasionally, but if we make the not unreasonable assumption that nobody drops the gear until they are on the ILS, only a very small percentage of landers are established by 20 miles (on westerlies, that's roughly abeam LCY) and the number with the gear down at that point will be an even lower proportion of arrivals.

That's not my idea of "regularly".

RAT 5
28th Feb 2018, 18:27
In 80's here used to be a guy off the western end of LGW. OK B732, BAC111, B727, etc were noise beasts. Various takeoff techniques were employed. The contentious one was to use max reduced thrust to 3000' and stagger out in a shallow climb spreading noise over the gentle Susses countryside. This was a mandatory technique at night, with max thrust/noise levels calculated. That sometimes meant a TFS was touch & go or even needed a fuel stop. But the legislators decided on this; politics. This was all before NAPD 1 & 2.
The pilots amongst us wondered why we didn't thunder off at max grunt, max angle spreading that noise over the smallest area closest to the airport, called a car park, and then reduce to climb at 3000'. A sort NAPD 2, but always max thrust.
Nope, not approved.
So this guy at LGW would sit in his garden with binoculars, an ATC radio, a glass of Pimms and the phone. He was on first name terms with all the controllers. If the test match was on the phone was quieter.

posso
28th Feb 2018, 21:29
Just to put the thrust reverse on so to speak, Any truth in the rumour that back in the day (1980s), Doug Arnold bought the ex Dan air Comet G-BDIT had it flown into Blackbushe supposedly for use as a restaurant.


Allegedly just got it to so he could fire up the engines to pizz off the local moaning neighbours!

CloudHound
28th Feb 2018, 22:24
Oh you've tapped a rich vein!

I used to take the out-of-hours telephone calls at Manchester Airport in the 1990s and early norties. So many rib ticklers but one comes to mind.

Lady called about wanting me to stop a/c flying low over her house. It was in the centre of Knutsford, Cheshire some 5 or 6 miles finals for R06 (pre Runway 2). She sounded very distressed, so I tried to find the root cause of her problem.

She accused the airport of being in cahoots with the estate agent who sold her the house as she had only viewed it twice. Her claim was that we had diverted traffic during the period of her visits lulling her to believe noise wasn't an issue.

I didn't really know how to answer her but tried to explain that a/c takeoff and land into wind so what ever prevailed affected one end of the runway or t'other.

She asked "who is responsible for this?" and when I said "God' she hung up:ouch:

WingNut60
28th Feb 2018, 22:59
No train, plane or low level nuclear device can compete with an Indonesian mesjid (mosque) during Ramadhan.
And you can forget about complaining.

Choosing a suitable place of abode in Indonesia largely revolves around scanning for the chrome plated domes and associated speakers.

WhatsaLizad?
1st Mar 2018, 01:56
There is a great deal of smugness and nonsense written on this thread by individuals who congratulate themselves for not living near or under a flightpath!
My family have endured unnecessary aircraft noise for considerably longer than Heathrow's modern existence and now they want to increase noise and pollution yet again!
It infuriates me, as a retired military and commercial pilot watching the latest protégées blanket approach paths by dropping their gear early.
Necessity for early gear deployment are rare but I watch some clowns boring into LHR with needless regularity having deployed gear well over 20 miles from touchdown.
BA are very good generally but foreign operators and Virgin should be aware of the consequences and should not be surprised when their individual flights are complained about.
The supposition that people buy houses under a flight path and then complain is in many cases arrant rubbish!


I can assure you that in the spirit of my colonial ancestor rebels, when I am back flying near King George's lair, wave to me 30 miles out with gear down, full flaps, 1 1/2 dots low on the GS and probably the speed brakes fully deployed despite the FOM. :E

Krystal n chips
1st Mar 2018, 03:30
Oh you've tapped a rich vein!

I used to take the out-of-hours telephone calls at Manchester Airport in the 1990s and early norties. So many rib ticklers but one comes to mind.

Lady called about wanting me to stop a/c flying low over her house. It was in the centre of Knutsford, Cheshire some 5 or 6 miles finals for R06 (pre Runway 2). She sounded very distressed, so I tried to find the root cause of her problem.

She accused the airport of being in cahoots with the estate agent who sold her the house as she had only viewed it twice. Her claim was that we had diverted traffic during the period of her visits lulling her to believe noise wasn't an issue.

I didn't really know how to answer her but tried to explain that a/c takeoff and land into wind so what ever prevailed affected one end of the runway or t'other.

She asked "who is responsible for this?" and when I said "God' she hung up:ouch:

Ah yes, Knutsford, a charming, almost permanently gridlocked idyll closely twinned with Wilmslow and Prestbury when it comes to another reason for residence .......the all important and prestigious post code.

Always bemusing to see the number of outdoor pools flying over this location though.

Let's not forget the close neighbour here, certainly with regard to post code social status, Hale. The residents here taking exception to trains ( freight ) running at night, despite the railway having been around since the 19th century.

But pride of place must go to the two individuals featured in "The Secret life of the Motorway " living adjacent to, and having moved in long after it's construction, the M6 in Birmingham .

The unforeseen, for them, problem was that the Motorway had to be, um, maintained and the bulk of this work was being done at night. For once, you could actually feel sorry for "Highways England" who did their level best to keep the noise levels down faced with these two who had decided it was their life's calling to acquire as much noise monitoring kit as money could buy and to produce reams of results in support of their displeasure.

It should be noted no other residents were bothered in this respect.

Having lived adjacent to the WCML, near an approach, within earshot of a Motorway and major arterial route, noise has never really been of any consequence.

The most detrimental impact however, was when those great rugger chaps, home and away supporters, suddenly "discovered " a convenient if somewhat tortuous rat run to enable them to leave the ground and avoid, in theory, the main road used by everybody else. It never occurred to them their chosen escape route ended at, erm, the same main road they were trying to avoid and thus the congestion was exacerbated rather than alleviated.

Boxkite Montgolfier
1st Mar 2018, 11:00
eal401

Clearly you sleep a lot as a SLP particularly into London.

I am intrigued as to your experience as passenger confounds mine as an airline captain with 40 years operation ex LHR.

I witness approaches on radar and visibly from a balcony point with clear identifiable approach points and frequently see gear extended as mentioned.

I suspect your drawer is fuller than you think!

GLIDER 90
1st Mar 2018, 13:38
Thanks for the replys, much appreciated.

Glider 90

chevvron
1st Mar 2018, 15:09
A now retired Airport Manager at Fairoaks had a 'form letter' he sent to complainers who had recently moved to the area.
It suggested the house buyer contact the estate agents who brokered their purchase and claim compensation from them.