Getting an ATPL H whilst serving

[faarn]

I have read through CAP 804 and the CAA website but still not fully clear on my best options for transition to the civilian world and am hoping for some advise from people on here.

As it stands I meet all the requirements for part-FCL credit and am keen to start my ATPL H (I can see no advantage in going for the CPL H / IR). I don't plan on leaving for another 3-4 years (better pension) and wonder when people think I should start the ATPL H process? I know I have 18 months from starting the exams to complete them then I think 36 months to complete my IR. What I am unclear on is whether my military unrestricted helicopter green rating allows me to 'renew' a civilian IR. Also can I open the ATPL H on a military helicopter or does it have to be a civilian one.

Clearly I want to try to keep costs down and am looking at the best way to do this. I also haven't ruled out getting an ATPL A but bar JEFTS have no fixed wing experience (I presume this would be far more expensive to achieve).

Any advise welcomed.

[FloaterNorthWest]

Go to the website below and speak to them. They can tell you the current situation with military credits for licence conversion. CAP 804 is no longer amended so the information may be out of date.

https://www.ukflying.com/

[[email protected]]

Even if you have an unrestricted green mil instrument rating, you can't use that to either get or renew a civil IR - you still have to take the exams, do training at an ATO and then pass the civvy test.

Thanks for nothing 22 Gp.

[Mustapha Cuppa]

Even if you have an unrestricted green mil instrument rating, [..] you still have to [..] do training at an ATO

Since when?

[Lima Juliet]

I heard from a good source in the CAA that a revised version of CAP804 is on short final to land.

As for the 22Gp thing. I used to think that, but then I started to understand how our military groundschool and training system has diverged significantly from the commercial world. Trying to do the thing in reverse is equally tricky as well - if an ATPL(A)/(H) holder wants to join the military and skip the majority of military flying trg it is tricky, even for ME roles. Personnally, I think we missed a trick with MFTS where we should have used the civvy licences as a ‘backbone’ with the military parts like formation, low level and tactics bolted onto it. But I guess that ship has already sailed, sadly?

[faarn]

Go to the website below and speak to them. They can tell you the current situation with military credits for licence conversion. CAP 804 is no longer amended so the information may be out of date.

https://www.ukflying.com/

I've just had a good look through there. There a few routes to CPL MEIR which aren't too expensive but what are the job prospects like post this and do previous helicopter/PIC hours count for anything (even if not officially)?

[switch_on_lofty]

Looked into this a couple of years ago.
Unless your mil type is a twin easa type e.g Bell 212/412 you can't open your ir civil licence on mil type.
First you need to do the 14 theory exams. This takes a while, read months-years.
Then you have to do a type rating, cpl test and ir practical in an easa type.
Expect £20-30k for the lot.
Might change soon though, I was told that in 2015 though, glad I didn't wait.

[[email protected]]

Mustapha - you are correct - the QSP stuff gives you a bye on the training and allows you to go straight for the test. However, you will need to use a civvy aircraft for the IR since the mil (at the moment) won't allow you to use yours, even if it is an EASA registered one - therefore you will need to use an ATO and get a type rating . This is what most of the guys and girls who went to Bristow from SAR had to do - get a twin squirrel rating and then the IR test.

Lima Juliet - I get the ATPL licence thing compared to our mil groundschool but anyone who has an unrestricted mil instrument rating will have an almost identical test for their civ IR as they would for their IRT - it makes no sense not to recognise the mil one.

[roving]

A total of 145 pilots formally applied to leave the Royal Air Force in the last three financial years.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2018-01-15/debates/339A7950-66EC-4672-836E-D322C4FA5874/RoyalAirForcePilots

Given the number of RAF pilots applying to leave the service there must be quite a few intending to transition to civilian flying.

[airpolice]

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2018-01-15/debates/339A7950-66EC-4672-836E-D322C4FA5874/RoyalAirForcePilots

Given the number of RAF pilots applying to leave the service there must be quite a few intending to transition to civilian flying.

I suspect that should read, applied to leave early.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Faarn - everyone I know from light blue rotary that has left and wanted a fixed wing job in the last couple of years has got one iirc.

You need to knuckle down and do the licenses, and some CV/Interview help goes a long way. Also be prepared to take an interim job to build some fixed wing hours, but most of the contacts I have went BA, Easy, Jet2 and maybe FlyBe I think.

There's plenty of potential, but also be prepared for a down tick. More chance than a rotary job I reckon though!

[dingo9]

Faarn. As above. Join an AEF and build FW hrs whilst you study for the exams. It’s great fun. RW license will cost you more and the long term pay prospects are less than FW.

[A and C]

You will find your local RAF flying club a useful source of practical information on obtaining civil licences as well as a place to fly at a reasonable cost.

[S-Works]

Be aware that CAP804 is advisory only and there is no current plan to release an updated copy. Sadly it is also the only place that contains any information pertaining to military accreditation......

Its down to the Head of Training of your chosen school to assess your experience and put together an appropriate programme. You will have to do all the exams and flight training and this will involve you going through the CPL/IR as you can't direct access an ATPL unless taking a skill test on a multi pilot aircraft which grants you only that type rating. Your military instrument does count towards the training but you cant keep it current on the basis of a military IRT which means a yearly test with a CAA examiner or renewal on leaving the mob but ensuring you don't hit the 7 year barrier.

[faarn]

Thanks for all the information. It seems it will cost about £25,000 to get FW or RW Quals and as suggested the FW route provides better job prospects. I will certainly look at the AEF and see what advice they can offer. I guess the bonus of planning 4 years out is I can save up and do it in stages and keep my exit bonus and pension to subsidise my pay for a few years after leaving.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

I will certainly look at the AEF and see what advice they can offer.

Fine, as long as you are aware of the obvious caveats - you will get about 7 hours as a convex and from then on, it takes a lot of 20-minute cadet sorties to build hours! If you are prepared to go there on every free day you have, you will end up getting some hours under your belt, and you certainly have time on your side, but the usual limiting factors can slow progress significantly. NB you may have quite a commute to your AEF, depending on where you live - some of them have so many pilots already that they will simply turn you away. Inevitably, those in the South-East are (so I'm told) the most flush for pilots. And as a current serving guy/girl, don't expect to receive a penny towards fuel costs etc.

A simpler alternative which others have taken is just to book yourself a couple of trips to Florida where the weather and serviceability is guaranteed, and the view out of the window (aircraft and accommodation!) is probably more entertaining even if you don't get to go upside down. Please note that I am not trying to play down the pleasure of AEF - I enjoyed my time on the Tutor immensely, and there is genuine satisafaction in taking cadets flying, some of whom had never left the ground before at all - but I'm simply trying to be realistic about your chances of achieving what you want.

[airpolice]

Or join your nearest RAFFCA Flying Club and get cheap flying.