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EGLD
24th Feb 2018, 10:28
Morning All,

So when is the clampdown coming on this ridiculous behaviour?

What started out as a reasonable idea with cabbies keeping their phones tucked in the corner to the right of the steering wheel has now gone full retard amongst the masses who can barely leave the house without endangering themselves and others.

I must've seen at least 4 instances this week alone of 5 inch smartphones placed almost directly in front of the driver at eye level, obscuring a massive percentage of their view.

You'd think common sense would prevail and there would be no need for people to be TOLD not to endanger themselves and others, but I feel a nationwide campaign and increased penalty will be required similar to seatbelt/using mobile phones.

The worst offenders all have something in common, but I'm not going there......

I don't want KnC getting too excited this early on a Saturday

andytug
24th Feb 2018, 10:35
Morning All,

So when is the clampdown coming on this ridiculous behaviour?

What started out as a reasonable idea with cabbies keeping their phones tucked in the corner to the right of the steering wheel has now gone full retard amongst the masses who can barely leave the house without endangering themselves and others.

I must've seen at least 4 instances this week alone of 5 inch smartphones placed almost directly in front of the driver at eye level, obscuring a massive percentage of their view.

You'd think common sense would prevail and there would be no need for people to be TOLD not to endanger themselves and others, but I feel a nationwide campaign and increased penalty will be required similar to seatbelt/using mobile phones.

The worst offenders all have something in common, but I'm not going there......

I don't want KnC getting too excited this early on a Saturday

I have genuinely followed someone in a Renault Scenic who was using a full size iPad on top of the dash for a sat nav. Could just about read it from 20 yards behind him!
Afaik the rule is nothing should be within the wiper sweep area? So all those with their sat nav sat slap bang in the middle of the windscreen under the mirror are ilegal.....

funfly
24th Feb 2018, 10:38
EGLD
Feeling better for getting that off your chest?
btw agree with you.

EGLD
24th Feb 2018, 10:39
Feeling better for getting that off your chest?

I do actually, cheers :ok:

bnt
24th Feb 2018, 10:52
That reads to me like an argument for a heads-up display (HUD) in your car. I'm hardly the first to think of this - I know Citroen did it on the C6 - and now I see it's becoming more common and there are also 3rd-party options (https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/best-head-up-displays/) hitting the market.

Saintsman
24th Feb 2018, 13:06
I wonder how many of them are using a Sat Nav to show them the directions to a place they already know the whereabouts?

off watch
24th Feb 2018, 13:14
Maybe not for directions, Saintsman, but to give advance warning of traffic holdups & thus alternate routes ..... ?

TangoAlphad
24th Feb 2018, 13:19
Maybe not for directions, Saintsman, but to give advance warning of traffic holdups & thus alternate routes ..... ?

Yup. I have about 5 variations of how I can drive to the airport and I always have my phone on for 'directions' as it updates on traffic and adjusts.

off watch
24th Feb 2018, 13:27
TangoAlphad - I guess that's sensible for anyone driving in the Grampians, given the number of times the A939 is closed due to snow ;-)

Sallyann1234
24th Feb 2018, 13:29
When I need satnav I have the TomTom app running on a 6" tablet, laying flat on the dashboard where it gets the best view of the satellites.

In that position the screen is actually invisible, intentionally so as I find the voice instructions alone are perfectly adequate.

TangoAlphad
24th Feb 2018, 13:31
TangoAlphad - I guess that's sensible for anyone driving in the Grampians, given the number of times the A939 is closed due to snow ;-)

My profile has long needed updating and I'm a good 600 miles away from there... ;)

RatherBeFlying
24th Feb 2018, 15:04
Mine is just above the dashboard next to the windshield pillar.

Having barely escaped being run over by a city bus turning left, it turns out that the side mirrors of many North American busses create a blind spot big enough to hide a pedestrian in the crosswalk while turning left.

The drivers unions are on the case as a number of pedestrians have been killed by left turning busses:(

lomapaseo
24th Feb 2018, 15:10
I don't like the idea of HUDs in street vehicles where close in vision as well as side vision is a must.

I would imagine that even a fighter pilot would have problems taking turns on a taxi out using a HUD

DType
24th Feb 2018, 15:17
To say nothing of parking permit, emissions sticker, autobahn vignette, old tax disc holder, dangling dolly, expired parking ticket(s), etc. No wonder dashcams are so popular, they enable you to see whatever it was you hit which you couldn't see because of the dashcam, etc.
When I was young, I talked my father into subscribing to a Swiss motoring magazine, on the pretext that it would improve my French. A letter to the editor moaned that although post war cars had much bigger windows, he was forbidden by Swiss law from obscuring any of this enormous new area of glass. The editor replied that it would be unwise of him to negate the benefits of the improved visibility provided by the manufacturer.
I guess we need that Swiss law here (if it still exists).

VP959
24th Feb 2018, 17:34
That reads to me like an argument for a heads-up display (HUD) in your car. I'm hardly the first to think of this - I know Citroen did it on the C6 - and now I see it's becoming more common and there are also 3rd-party options (https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/best-head-up-displays/) hitting the market.

The HUD on mine has the option to display simple sat nav directions at junctions, turn offs, roundabouts etc. It works pretty well and is preferable (in my view) to having a nagging voice coming from the car. I find the voice instructions more distracting than the simple arrows that are projected on to the screen.

My only slight criticism is that the HUD in my car has a fixed focus distance and that is around 20ft in front of the car. That's fine around town in traffic, but less than ideal on the open road, where it really needs to focus around infinity, to save your eyes having to accommodate for the apparent distance change.

Pontius Navigator
24th Feb 2018, 17:46
Surely better is the dashcam. Provided the screen is big enough then you can drive head down and stick whatever you like on the wind screen?

llondel
24th Feb 2018, 18:00
My phone lives below dash level when mounted in the car. I don't like having anything obscuring the front view.

As for using satnav to get where you already know how to go, I'm another one who uses it more to choose which route depending on current traffic. Fire it up in the morning and the first decision is at the end of my road to determine whether to turn left or right.

Standard Noise
24th Feb 2018, 19:19
I've had built in satnav on my last two Bavarian tanks with HUD on both as well. The phone stays in a pocket (cos it connects through the tank stereo) and I can't be doing with windscreen versions of anything. Apart from anything else, they're dangerous if you're involved in an RTC.

Just one thing though, it's not foolproof. Given some of the routes it's taken me on, I do wonder how the Germans made it to Warsaw...

racedo
24th Feb 2018, 19:22
As previously mentioned I pretty much live in hire cars and most ones now have a built in system that I program when i need.

I drive couple of hrs every Sun and Friday as stay away for work and use because it me a rough idea of time it will take, in reality its not needed and if traffic is crap well traffic is crap.

I know sometimes have been distracted and most of my time is on Dual / Motorway .

racedo
24th Feb 2018, 19:23
I do wonder how the Germans made it to Warsaw...

Road maps and they still have the Moscow street ones as well ......................... just in case :E

Checkboard
24th Feb 2018, 19:26
You've got the wrong end of the stick.

They're not using Satnav.

They're using synthetic vision (so they can see where they're going) while playing Pokemon Go. ;)

ZeBedie
24th Feb 2018, 20:11
I can remember when you'd get nicked for not having your tax disc in the approved location. Some of the phones and even ipads stuck in the middle of windscreens are outrageous. Where are the police when you need then to do something useful like this?

SRFred
24th Feb 2018, 21:01
In that position the screen is actually invisible, intentionally so as I find the voice instructions alone are perfectly adequate.


Can you tell the difference between the electronic voice and SWMBO? :E

Loose rivets
24th Feb 2018, 23:04
I love my HUD. It shows varying angles as one circumnavigates a roundabout, the arrow swings towards the exit as you arrive at it.

Speed selected is in green, while speed attained is in amber. Warnings written in English in case one can not understand gongs and sounds of atomic bombs being expelled through a constricted bottom.

Good stuff. I long for the day when there is no windscreen, just a load of data. Oh, and that data being displayed to one while one is still having tea and toast in bed.


'One' is most perplexed by this. I've just checked and it's certainly the right way up on the .jpg file.

Please could you stand on your heads while I pour myself another brandy.

jut Removed and re-acquired the photo. It's the same.

RINKER
24th Feb 2018, 23:33
EGLD I completely agree with you on this.
I think they must create blind spots
As has been said on here a chipped windscreen within the wiper
swept area
Is an mot failure in the Uk.
Iím surprised people donít get stopped by the police for this.

R

FullOppositeRudder
25th Feb 2018, 02:05
I have a 50 series Garmin GPS on each of our vehicles. They fit nicely in the extreme lower RHS of the windscreen, and at my height and driving position probably 80% of their mass is superimposed against the bonnet so there are no blind spots worthy of concern. I have found them to be a very useful aid to driving - whether the guidance system is in use or not. They operate whenever the ignition is on, and I mostly use the the digital GPS speed readout feature - much more easy to see with sunglasses than the relatively small analogue dial on the Pajero.

The substantial front roof pillars on both of these vehicles would constitute a potentially much more serious blind spot issue than the GPS.

Nice piece of gear. I don't feel completely equipped when driving a vehicle without one.

FOR

Krystal n chips
25th Feb 2018, 05:49
Morning All,

So when is the clampdown coming on this ridiculous behaviour?

You'd think common sense would prevail and there would be no need for people to be TOLD not to endanger themselves and others, but I feel a nationwide campaign and increased penalty will be required similar to seatbelt/using mobile phones.

The worst offenders all have something in common, but I'm not going there......

I don't want KnC getting too excited this early on a Saturday

Have you thought of sending a letter, or an email, to the Mail / Excess at all ?

The rags are always desperately in need of a new "crusade" and your apoplectic observations would clearly fulfil the criteria. We can only hope you were either a passenger or pedestrian when engaged in these observations however because otherwise your own driving would also have been distracted by conducting them in the first place.

Fascinating to note however, that, you consider 10.38 am to be early.

Alas, at 10.38 yesterday I was long since awake and out of the house, and at the time yesterday engaged in a futile conversation with "management " as to why, with the impending weather conditions, it would be a good idea to let both the public and the volunteer staff know well in advance that operations would be suspended.

As this conversation was with an individual who thought a German frikkadelle was, erm, an onion bahji and confessed he had never heard of them before when he saw me eating one last week, you should get an idea as to why I feel my logical concerns didn't permeate his skull.

Anyway, HUD's, in cars.

There's a pretentious added extra for the "desperate to part with money " brigade if ever there was one.

I've had a HUD installed in every car I've driven since 1973.....and it has never cost me anything. It's also worked perfectly over the years...if I say so myself.

Staying with aviation and cars however, certain German marques have long since had RNAV installed, or rather the principle has been practiced by the drivers, so it can only be a matter of time before the more discerning driver can boast of their vehicle being Cat111C equipped to get up the drive to their garage.

Windy Militant
25th Feb 2018, 12:31
I'm not sure that HUDs are going to be a good thing especially after seeing the advert for a new model of Italian car which promises access to all your favourite phone apps on the cars touch screen display. Maybe Checkerboard is not far wrong with his Pokemon quip.
PS I remember being shown details of the new Infra Red cameras fitted to a certain marque of German cars at a thermography seminar about ten years ago, they don't seem to have caught on as much as was hoped!;)

RedhillPhil
25th Feb 2018, 13:49
I have a 50 series Garmin GPS on each of our vehicles. They fit nicely in the extreme lower RHS of the windscreen, and at my height and driving position probably 80% of their mass is superimposed against the bonnet so there are no blind spots worthy of concern. I have found them to be a very useful aid to driving - whether the guidance system is in use or not. They operate whenever the ignition is on, and I mostly use the the digital GPS speed readout feature - much more easy to see with sunglasses than the relatively small analogue dial on the Pajero.

The substantial front roof pillars on both of these vehicles would constitute a potentially much more serious blind spot issue than the GPS.

Nice piece of gear. I don't feel completely equipped when driving a vehicle without one.

FOR




What he said.

EGLD
25th Feb 2018, 15:25
Have you thought of sending a letter, or an email, to the Mail / Excess at all ?

The rags are always desperately in need of a new "crusade" and your apoplectic observations would clearly fulfil the criteria. We can only hope you were either a passenger or pedestrian when engaged in these observations however because otherwise your own driving would also have been distracted by conducting them in the first place.

Fascinating to note however, that, you consider 10.38 am to be early.

Alas, at 10.38 yesterday I was long since awake and out of the house, and at the time yesterday engaged in a futile conversation with "management " as to why, with the impending weather conditions, it would be a good idea to let both the public and the volunteer staff know well in advance that operations would be suspended.

As this conversation was with an individual who thought a German frikkadelle was, erm, an onion bahji and confessed he had never heard of them before when he saw me eating one last week, you should get an idea as to why I feel my logical concerns didn't permeate his skull.

Anyway, HUD's, in cars.

There's a pretentious added extra for the "desperate to part with money " brigade if ever there was one.

I've had a HUD installed in every car I've driven since 1973.....and it has never cost me anything. It's also worked perfectly over the years...if I say so myself.

Staying with aviation and cars however, certain German marques have long since had RNAV installed, or rather the principle has been practiced by the drivers, so it can only be a matter of time before the more discerning driver can boast of their vehicle being Cat111C equipped to get up the drive to their garage.

:D:D this whole post is just.....just great :ok:

Pontius Navigator
25th Feb 2018, 17:34
Nice piece of gear. I don't feel completely equipped when driving a vehicle without one.

FOR
Agree. It also gives me a useful reminder of the speed against the speed limit (not always correct but more so than not.

MG23
25th Feb 2018, 17:46
No wonder dashcams are so popular, they enable you to see whatever it was you hit which you couldn't see because of the dashcam, etc.

Weird. My dashcam is hidden behind the rear-view mirror, in the spot that would be completely filled by the built-in cameras if I'd bought the model with the adaptive cruise control.

So, anyway, if this problem is so serious that police should be stopping people to prevent accidents, you can presumably point to the massive rise in accidents that they've caused?

RAT 5
25th Feb 2018, 19:59
It is an offence to use a hand-held mobile phone while in motion; just chatting even, not dialling. Reason, you have only one hand on the wheel, but tucking it under your chin is no defence. You are distracted.
Is it also illegal to drink or eat while driving. The one-handed rule still applies, after all. And what about the cool elbow out of the window cruising?

And the police are having a field day catching the hand-held mobile criminals.

But those who have impaired their view of where they are going and what they are going to hit. They seem to escape the full force of plod, but who is less in control?

Is this another case of don't let the logic get in the way of an easy motorist beating?

The thing is, catching the mobile phone user can be contentious as they can put it down and it could be your word against theirs; but gadget jungles on the windscreen are more easily spottable. Even parking attendants could photo them in car-parks or on the street. It'd be a doddle. In theory it's against the law. The illogical thing is, if tax discs still existed, your car would be checked for that, and you may be nicked for it or not, but yet the windscreen jungle would go unchallenged. Safety? Hm.

G-CPTN
25th Feb 2018, 20:05
It is an offence to use a hand-held mobile phone while in motion; just chatting even, not dialling. Reason, you have only one hand on the wheel, but tucking it under your chin is no defence. You are distracted.
Is it also illegal to drink or eat while driving. The one-handed rule still applies, after all. And what about the cool elbow out of the window cruising?
That would imply that it is illegal to smoke whilst driving . . .

It’s not illegal to eat and drive at the same time. However, if you present a significant danger while snacking on the move, the police could prosecute you for careless driving if they consider you not in proper control of the vehicle.
drinking at the wheel is not illegal, but it can carry the same careless driving penalty.
Smoking at the wheel is not an offence in itself, but if it leads to careless driving it could land you in trouble with the law.

From (and more at):- https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/know-how/driving-myths-your-questions-answered/

Pontius Navigator
25th Feb 2018, 20:24
The thing is, catching the mobile phone user can be contentious as they can put it down and it could be your word against theirs;.

Your phone can incriminate you in the same way as your dashcam and satnav can.

They all log activities, many you can often not access yourself.

Sallyann1234
25th Feb 2018, 21:48
Your phone can incriminate you in the same way as your dashcam and satnav can.

They all log activities, many you can often not access yourself.
It's routine for police to take the driver's phone for forensic tests if they suspect it was used before an RTC.

G-CPTN
25th Feb 2018, 21:58
It's routine for police to take the driver's phone for forensic tests if they suspect it was used before an RTC.
Under what specific powers can the police 'confiscate' mobile 'phones?
Do they need a warrant from a court?

What if the suspect disposes of the 'phone?


AIUI, the police cannot insist that you hand over a camera after you have taken a photograph in a public place - even if the photograph was of a police officer.

MG23
26th Feb 2018, 01:41
But those who have impaired their view of where they are going and what they are going to hit. They seem to escape the full force of plod, but who is less in control?

There's a huge difference between using a hand-held phone as you drive--which requires taking your eyes off the road and at least one hand off the wheel--and having one attached to the dash so you can follow the GPS directions.

And if you hit someone because your phone is attached to the dashboard, you're simply not looking where you're going. It's not as though another car is going to suddenly appear on the road in the spot that's blocked by the phone. If you were looking where you were going, you should have seen them well before you reached a position where you could crash into them.

Sallyann1234
26th Feb 2018, 21:44
Under what specific powers can the police 'confiscate' mobile 'phones?
Why did you put 'confiscate' in quotes? I didn't use that word.

If police believe that the collision was caused by a crime, they can and do seize anything that can be used as evidence. If for instance they suspect that the driver might have been using their phone they will most certainly take it for testing.


AIUI, the police cannot insist that you hand over a camera after you have taken a photograph in a public place - even if the photograph was of a police officer.
Correct, providing it is actually in a public place and no crime has been committed. But that is an entirely different matter from this discussion.