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View Full Version : Can anyone identify this bullet?


funfly
22nd Feb 2018, 14:31
Can anyone identify this bullet please?

http://funflyart.co.uk/images/bullet.jpg

Edited so say that I picked it up years ago in Rhodesia

Exrigger
22nd Feb 2018, 14:46
7.62 x 51 NATO | Cartridgecollector.net (http://www.cartridgecollector.net/762-x-51-nato)

7.62 BALL (1973 – 1981)

funfly
22nd Feb 2018, 14:47
What sort of gun would have fired it?

Highway1
22nd Feb 2018, 14:50
SLR (or FN)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L1A1_Self-Loading_Rifle

sitigeltfel
22nd Feb 2018, 14:52
Here's another one for any armourers out there. It was found near Sisteron yesterday and declared harmless by the bomb disposal bods.
Its overall length is 40cm / 15.75in.

http://www.laprovence.com/media/imagecache/v4-detail-article/breves/2018-02/2018-02-22/breves5a8ec8323cd92_1.jpg

MOSTAFA
22nd Feb 2018, 14:52
Rhodesia - probably an FN FAL or an AK47.

Exrigger
22nd Feb 2018, 14:56
I see someone has beaten me to it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FAL#Rhodesia

NutLoose
22nd Feb 2018, 14:58
7.62x39 cartridges coded "964" and "75" (http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?10942-7-62x39-cartridges-coded-quot-964-quot-and-quot-75-quot)

https://www.pprune.org/data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxITEhUTExIWFhUXGBgXFxgYFxgYFxgYGBcWFxYdFxcYHSggGBsl GxUVITEhJSkrLi4uGB8zODMtNygtLisBCgoKDg0OGhAQGy0mICUtLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLf/AABEIAMIBAwMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAACAgMBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAFBgMEAAIHAQj/xAA+EAACAAQEBAMFBwIGAQUAAAABAgADBBEFEiExBkFRYRMicTKBkaHBBxQj QlKx0eHwFTNicpLxghYkorLS/8QAGQEAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDAAQF/8QAKBEAAgIBBQEAAgEEAwAAAAAAAAECESEDEhMxQVEiYTIUcaHwQrHx/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwClwfRtPmGpqDmd9RfkOQHSH4DIbjbaFHhWYMi9gIcZc wW1j0UsHI+y2s3SI0n5WJJsD10hXxzi6XKPhyh4kztsp7n6QoV+Nz5p/EmH/Ymlvh9YjPXS6KR0m+zsSYnKG7qPfEs4U9ShR8kxDuDY/Doe8cUkLM38P3sYJSJzqdlv2Noh/UX2h+D4zruHyWkjJnLIPZJ1YDox5+vx7y1FWF5wg4Tjs9Rc3KjcE5h05wTra xmQuikgDUcxFoTg+yM9KVmcZcYLSyGdSC50UdWO0c54YpXqJhqJ5Lu5vc8vT t2gBxbibT6hUJ8q8u5h14ZmAKIDmm8dFI6e1DrThVAAFumsZOm3F99ecVUmX 9Y1rJhWwAu+/Ze5hrBR5V4g6as2VOew/wC4Hf8AquUp9pjr7vjvC7xPWE7knvy90LCtc7wktVRGWnuOw4VxRLmEK1uxZ 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Range Report and a question about popped primers - Calguns.net (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=320628&styleid=9)

Not NATO. as that has a circle divided into 4 quadrants as a mark.

underfire
22nd Feb 2018, 15:17
What is diameter of round in Post#5?

Looks like a tank round.

B2N2
22nd Feb 2018, 17:15
Can anyone identify this bullet please?

http://funflyart.co.uk/images/bullet.jpg



Technically not a bullet but an empty fired casing.

Exrigger
22nd Feb 2018, 17:33
Just a bit more from my link, that I forgot to post:

A SERIES (1973 - 1983)

In early 1973 the new headstamp series was launched. The PMP was replaced with an A, together with a two digit date. The A was for ARMSCOR. Also introduced was a variation of the British Modelling System (L1A1), where the R1M1 was used. R denoted South Africa (RSA) and 1 denoted the first model of the specific calibre. Any change that would affect the operational ability or efficiency would necessitate a change from R1 to R2 etc. M1 is the first mark of the specific model and any concession or deviation from manufacturing specification that was granted to a manufacturer but would not affect the operational efficiency of the design would then change the Mark from M1 to M2 etc.

BALL (1973 – 1981)

Argonautical
22nd Feb 2018, 17:59
Intersting site that cartridge collecter one especially the two Rhodesian rounds. I am pretty sure the Rhodesians never manufactured any ammo and the two rounds featured must have been privately done, perhaps by an American troopie but who really knows now. I don't think the rifling twist of the FN would be suitable for the much lighter and shorter AK bullet.

funfly
22nd Feb 2018, 19:07
Technically not a bullet but an empty fired casing.

No, it's actually half of a cufflink, the locals were collecting the spent cartridges and making cuff links, I bought this one from the side of the road near Harare or whatever it was called then.

MOSTAFA
22nd Feb 2018, 19:57
Fun fly you are absolutely right and sadly - that's the problem with pprune nowadays there are just too many as*eholes out there trying to outdo or be clever. All you did was ask a perfectly legit question about a photo. Can I suggest you already have the answer - my best guess is that it's fits either A FN FAL or an AK47.

wdew
22nd Feb 2018, 20:07
R1M1
South African 7.62x 51 military round
Used in FN FAL R1 R2 G3 LMG etc
PMP factory outside Pretoria

Loose rivets
23rd Feb 2018, 01:29
Another enduring memory.

A quintessential English gentlelady and her husband had repatriated themselves and she was SLFing with me in one of our aircraft. One very significant reason they'd given everything up, she confided, was that "the cost of ammunition was becoming prohibitive."

A different world.

Me firing Automag. Necked-down 762 with a quicker burn. This is real. That weighty gun would just stop at my peke resisting with both hands.

I'm puzzled by this shot. It had just fired, but shows no sign of having done so.

krismiler
23rd Feb 2018, 02:12
South Africa could produce most of its military requirements with the exception of highly specialised equipment. The armoured personnel carriers and artillery were particularly good.

Rhodesia wasn't at the same level but did an exceptional job with very limited resources. Armoured vehicles adapted from trucks were made locally as well as bombs for aircraft. There was some production of light ammunition but more specialised requirements such as for the Hawker Hunters had to be imported.

The South African military were well involved, particularly towards the end and SA ammunition wouldn't have been unusual in the country.

Bull at a Gate
23rd Feb 2018, 05:13
All these experts but not one has pointed out that it’s not a bullet.

Pinky the pilot
23rd Feb 2018, 05:39
All these experts but not one has pointed out that it’s not a bullet.

Re read post #10.

And wdew is correct.

chevvron
23rd Feb 2018, 17:37
It's a cartridge case not a bullet. The bullet is the bit which is spat out the other end when the percussion cap (the bit in the middle with a dent in it) is struck by he firing pin thus making the dent.

Bull at a Gate
24th Feb 2018, 01:44
There I was, being smart, and as Pinky points out, I was wrong - it had been pointed out.

Sorry. In my own defence I am getting my cataracts fixed on Wednesday.

Avtrician
24th Feb 2018, 12:16
Interestingly enough, the Rusky AK could use the NATO 7.62, but the rusky "equivalant" was a hair longer in the cartridge body, and I think the bullet was 7.63 so it wouldnt fit a NATO rifle..

krismiler
24th Feb 2018, 19:10
This was deliberate so that the Russians could use captured NATO ammunition but not vice versa.

Crabman
24th Feb 2018, 21:03
Interestingly enough, the Rusky AK could use the NATO 7.62, but the rusky "equivalant" was a hair longer in the cartridge body, and I think the bullet was 7.63 so it wouldnt fit a NATO rifle.. This was deliberate so that the Russians could use captured NATO ammunition but not vice versa. I have heard this many times over the years. I may have even heard it years ago in basic training. But, it is a myth.

NATO 7.62 x 51 mm
AK-47: 7.62 x 39 mm

Avtrician
25th Feb 2018, 00:19
Ah well, we didnt come accross to many AKs in Oz.. :)

Pinky the pilot
25th Feb 2018, 06:46
I have heard this many times over the years. I may have even heard it years ago in basic training. But, it is a myth.

NATO 7.62 x 51 mm
AK-47: 7.62 x 39 mm

Crabman is quite correct. I have heard the same myth many times and the ammunition mentioned is absolutely not interchangeable!

I have firearms chambered for both calibres and once as an experiment I tried to see if the Russian 7.62 x 39 round would chamber in a firearm chambered for the NATO round.

The Russian round would slip so far into the NATO chamber that the bolt would not grasp the rim. The NATO round has a case head diameter of about .468", the Russian round about .443".

Also the Russian ammo generally has a projectile of around .311" whereas the NATO round is .308"

How do I know? I have an example of both rounds and a micrometer next to the keyboard as I type this.

An addition; Pondering upon the above myth made me wonder if it was originally based on the old Soviet 7.62 rimmed cartridge of WW11 vintage. (7.62 x 59??) At a rapid glance, it could bear a resemblance to the .303 British round.:hmm: Case shape was quite different though, I think.

Got a few of the old Soviet rounds in my collection somewhere. Will have to try to find them check them out. However IIRC, they could not possibly chamber a .303 rifle, nor could the reverse occur.

Argonautical
25th Feb 2018, 20:38
When I heard this "myth", it was only applicable to artillary, the bad guys supposedly made their guns with calibers 1mm larger than ours. I don't know enough about artillery to know if it was true or not.

B2N2
26th Feb 2018, 03:21
Interestingly enough, the Rusky AK could use the NATO 7.62, but the rusky "equivalant" was a hair longer in the cartridge body, and I think the bullet was 7.63 so it wouldnt fit a NATO rifle..

And....that’s absolute rubbish.
Tell me how these would ever fit:

https://www.ingunowners.com/rimg.php?referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ingunowners.com%2Fforums% 2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D89433&src=http://i41.tinypic.com/wionwx.jpg

7.62x51 where 51 is the length of the casing in millimeters.
7.62 is de diameter of the projectile but still doesn’t say anything about the length or shape of the projectile.

From left to right all 7.62’s

https://m1-garand-rifle.com/30-06/pictures/7.62-cartridges-dscf6698.jpg

7.62x25 Tokarev pistol round
7.62x39 AK round
7.62x52R rifle round where the R denotes it’s a “rimmed” cartridge as the rim is sticking out of the base of the casing.
All 7.62’s, all completely different.

Pinky the pilot
26th Feb 2018, 09:57
B2N2; In your post above, the first photo displays, to me at least, what looks like a 30.06 and the 7.62 NATO rounds.

Not the NATO and Russian examples!

Maybe its just the way it shows on my computer but......:confused:

TWT
26th Feb 2018, 10:11
Pinky, I think the 'extreme' case taper on the smaller round in that pic gives it away as an AK round, and the larger one with much less taper seems to fit the bill for a NATO round in a size comparison.

( standing by to be proven wrong...) ;)

B2N2
26th Feb 2018, 13:47
B2N2; In your post above, the first photo displays, to me at least, what looks like a 30.06 and the 7.62 NATO rounds.

Not the NATO and Russian examples!

Maybe its just the way it shows on my computer but......:confused:

Ok here’s another picture:

https://www.mdshooters.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92624&stc=1&d=1375295314

From left to right
7.62x54R which is a Comm Bloc WW2 rifle and machine gun round
7.62x51 or what used to be “standard NATO” rifle round
7.62x39 AK round with the tapered shellcasing.

rigpiggy
26th Feb 2018, 15:55
Wrt the ruskies making things 1 mm bigger, i think that you were thinking about mortars

Super VC-10
26th Feb 2018, 18:01
Can anyone identify this bullet please?

http://funflyart.co.uk/images/bullet.jpg

Edited so say that I picked it up years ago in Rhodesia

Can just about make out some letters on it Je..m.y C...yn - any ideas?

funfly
27th Feb 2018, 12:28
B2N2
Where are you getting all this live ammo from?
Oh sorry, I’ve just noticed you are in the U S

Gets coat and runs.

B2N2
8th Mar 2018, 12:20
B2N2
Where are you getting all this live ammo from?
Oh sorry, I’ve just noticed you are in the U S
.

Google pics.
I don’t have any use for 7.62 Nato.
But I do for .303 British.
;)