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ShotOne
17th Feb 2018, 20:34
Meetings between Jeremy Corbyn and Czech spy Jan Sarkocy have been revealed in late 80’s. Corbyn claims not to have known he was a spy (he was unmasked and expelled after an MI5 operation three years later). Even if we accept this, in what way were meetings with a Soviet-bloc “diplomat” supposed to benefit Corbyn’s constituents?

racedo
17th Feb 2018, 21:16
MPs meet foreign diplomats (business people / citizens) all the time.
Uk Diplomats / Business people / Citizens do it in countrys abroad.

Some at their request some at the others.

For both it is to appear relevant that they are in touch with "people" who will pass on information than can be gleaned from Hansard or todays Newspapers.

In 1980's Corbyn was an irrelevant bank bench MP never likely to be ever considered for ANY front bench position in the event Labour ever made it to power.

Likely any meeting was well known about by Security services and probably bugged as well.

If there was ANYTHING of substance to this then you can be pretty sure it would have been released decades ago by a leak to the media or by an MP in HOC.

I know my MP in 1980's was in touch with Russian diplomats in late 1970's. Neighbours grandfather was living in Volgograd and she wanted to visit him / bring him to UK so after no joy from Embassy she spoke to MP. He did have a number of meetings with a Russian diplomat and eventually she got a visa to visit him just before he died.

As MP was an arch Tory with ex services background should he be discredited for meeting with someone. Oh he was up to his neck in dodgy contacts in Africa with dodgy dealings as well. This came about after his death.

In 1980's Jeremy Corbyn was talking to Adams and McGuinness in Northern Ireland, this while Uk Govt was officially not talking but unofficially having conversations.
Do I think some of Corbyns conversations with them were "official but deniable" the answer is yes because sometimes you don't get to choose whom you go through and can use different ways of getting a message.

Curious Pax
17th Feb 2018, 22:17
Strikes me there’s some out there panicking about the next election result, so have started the mud slinging early, via The Sun in this case. Ironic that the same people are probably a lot more ambivalent about the alleged Trump connections to Russia more recently - they could even have their own fingers in the same pie!

KelvinD
17th Feb 2018, 22:38
I agree with both racedo and Curious Pax. During my security training in the army centuries ago, one of our lectures concerned Soviet Bloc spies. I was quite surprised when it was explained to us that there was something like 1,200 spies in the UK and the securtiy services knew them all. When asked why they weren't all locked up/expelled, the answer was that as long as they were known, they could be monitored, followed etc whereas if they were kicked out they would be replaced by unknown replacements and the unearthing and snooping would have to be started all over again.
I have no doubt that still applied on the 1980s and the security services were aware of contacts and exchanges 25 years before the UK press.

Mr Oleo Strut
17th Feb 2018, 23:55
I'm looking forward to The Sun doing a massive exposé reminding the plebs of the damage done to the country by the Cambridge Apostles, Burgess, Philby, MacLean, Blunt and others, all Communist traitors and senior members of the UK establishment. They were the real reds under the beds, not back-bench Labour MPs.

Highway1
18th Feb 2018, 01:09
Not much of a spy really - certainly not in the same league as Jack Jones head of the TGWU who worked for Russia for decades.

Krystal n chips
18th Feb 2018, 03:58
Meetings between Jeremy Corbyn and Czech spy Jan Sarkocy have been revealed in late 80’s. Corbyn claims not to have known he was a spy (he was unmasked and expelled after an MI5 operation three years later). Even if we accept this, in what way were meetings with a Soviet-bloc “diplomat” supposed to benefit Corbyn’s constituents?

Did you ever read "MAD" magazine at all ?.....one feature was "Spy vs Spy " in which spies were depicted dressed, erm, as comic spies. Sadly, in real life, they aren't quite so attired, thus how Corbyn could be aware he was talking to one would be interesting to learn.

As others have said, there have been far more prominent contacts and, while we're at it, lets not forget there were, lets call them "significant overtures " across the Channel leading up to 1939 from members of the UK establishment

You will be aghast to learn I to have spoken to a Russian, well East German ( as was at the time ) which is near enough, spy in the less than secure environment of a USAF bar on the former G.A.F Memmingen base.....tis a long story, and pure farce, but, one valiantly refused to reveal the innermost workings of the mighty Jaguar despite intense interrogation. Actually, one was most disappointed because in the security films the target usually got seduced by an attractive lady.

It gets worse ! Somewhere deep in the KGB archives there are less than flattering, and compromising, photographs taken from a Russian "trawler " of one being violently sick over the side of a Grimsby trawler ( never let it be said the M.o.D cannot be fiscally prudent when the need arises as this rust bucket hulk proved ) .....personally, I blame this sorry state of affairs on the swell and the aroma of stale fish and ammonia coming from the hold although it's possible cans of Tuborg may also have contributed.

If I may suggest as much, your paranoia could be reduced significantly by not reading the Mail / Sun / Telegraph......and believing all that is printed therein.

ORAC
18th Feb 2018, 05:53
During the Cold War there were many hard left Marxist Labour Marxist members who saw communism, as practiced by the USSR, as the preferable economic system and were dedicated to the downfall of Capitalism. Among those were Corbyn and McDonnell.

It is not surprising they had contacts with diplomats/agents and provided them with what assistance they could to achieve that aim. They did nothing illegal as, being both backbenchers and known Marxists they had no access to classified information. They were merely some amongst many “fellow travellers” who were exploited by the USSR and their minions. It is well established, for example, that CND was massively funded by the USSR.

The Czech agen5 in question has stated that no payments were ever made and that Corbyn was, in his view, a useful idiot who was willing to provide what help he could.

There remain many dedicated Marxists who still wish the downfall of the capitalist system. McDonnell amongst them. They are entitled to their views and are doing nothing illegal, any more than those who still hawk the Socialist Weekly from stalls at the weekends whilst railing against NATO etc.

The only question and choice you have to make is whether you think they ought to lead the government if the United Kingdom. And, frankly, McDonnell is more of a threat than Corbyn.

https://youtu.be/9lCcFjRhiaw

Trossie
18th Feb 2018, 07:42
The Czech agen[t] in question has stated that no payments were ever made and that Corbyn was, in his view, a useful idiot who was willing to provide what help he could.
I think that the Czech actually referred to him as an "honest idiot". It's the adjectives that we differ on here, not the noun!

racedo
18th Feb 2018, 10:55
. It is well established, for example, that CND was massively funded by the USSR.


Amazingly then that one Catharine, (now Baroness ) Ashton, was able to become EU Foreign Affairs head.
There was not a word of dissent from NATO / UK establishment after being with CND for a number of years looking after membership.

Perhaps the security services just completely overlooked that in their security screening.......................:E

cavortingcheetah
18th Feb 2018, 11:06
McDonnell is by far the more important cog in the storm trooper supported command structure of what passes these days for a labour party but which, in reality bears no resemblance to that sometimes excellent political entity. Corbyn is nothing more than a stalking horse for Momentum and the completely unprincipled and rabid face of Marxism that would send people like me and some of you too, to the gulags.

ORAC
18th Feb 2018, 11:24
Amazingly then that one Catharine, (now Baroness ) Ashton, was able to become EU Foreign Affairs head.

Why would that be a surprise? Seeing as the 11th President of the EU Commission was José Manuel Durão Barroso who, to quote his Wiki biography (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Manuel_Barroso) was one of the leaders of the underground Maoist MRPP (Reorganising Movement of the Proletariat Party, later PCTP/MRPP; and a leader of the Communist Party of the Portuguese Workers/Revolutionary Movement of the Portuguese Proletariat.

Mind you he later became the non-executive chairman of Goldman Sachs in London. So he obviously got better......

ShotOne
18th Feb 2018, 11:27
Whether or not he was a paid informant the question still arises why Corbyn was having meetings with a Soviet bloc “diplomat” at the height of the Cold War. Why not just give a straightforward account of the reason for the meeting?

Nemrytter
18th Feb 2018, 11:30
And Boris supposedly met with Russian spies in the last couple of years. It happens. Get over it.

hiflymk3
18th Feb 2018, 13:55
And let's not forget the Profumo affair.

Gertrude the Wombat
18th Feb 2018, 14:02
And let's not forget the Profumo affair.
Ah, nostalgia for the good old days, when government ministers would resign if caught out lying.

racedo
18th Feb 2018, 15:14
Whether or not he was a paid informant the question still arises why Corbyn was having meetings with a Soviet bloc “diplomat” at the height of the Cold War. Why not just give a straightforward account of the reason for the meeting?

MPs get requests all the time for meetings and assume person making the request is doing so legitimately.

In 1980's there was no way of checking whom on tinternt was whom so if Alexander Dubcek from Czechslovakia requests a meeting you assume that it is he who turns up.

How many MPs have been caught out taking to fake Sheikhs ?

Ogre
18th Feb 2018, 19:35
It makes me smile that I now have friends and colleagues from Poland, Yugoslavia, Hungary, and China, yet 30 years ago just talking to them would have required me to report the contact to the military police.

I don't seriously believe Corbyn is a serious threat to the UK with this news (other topics yes, but not this one) but as an idealogic young man he was just so gullible to believe that providing the information was going to make the UK a better place. Ideological zealots like that are dangerous to any government, and are everywhere!

racedo
18th Feb 2018, 21:50
Passing information to a Czech 'diplomat' during the 1980's in the cold war is absolutely NOT the same as speaking to a random diplomat today or being caught out in some shady deal by a fake sheikh.

We can only assume 2 things here. He was either fully complicit and acting against the interests of the UK in favour of his communist leanings or he really didn't realise he was talking to an agent, in which case he is a bigger idiot than most of us thought, including his Soviet 'handler'.

Whichever of these it is, it is clear he is not fit to be PM and should resign immediately and so should McDonnell. The fact he was also so close to another of the UK's foes during the 1980's in Adams & co make it fairly clear where his priorities lay.

How can these cretins stay in place after calling for so many resignations from others?


Really

So a politician having a conversation with a Russian or Chinese diplomat today is A OK.......

Mind you if reading the claims he supposedly was able to pass on the info of what Maggie T was having for breakfeast the following morning and what she would be wearing.

Wonder how much the "spys" pension is today and how much have UK media have paid him.

ShotOne
18th Feb 2018, 22:18
The fact that nobody had trusted him with secret information at that point is irrelevant; he was prepared to share what he did have.

KelvinD
19th Feb 2018, 00:46
he was prepared to share what he did have.
And you know that how?

ORAC
19th Feb 2018, 03:58
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2Feb276f76-14ef-11e8-bd57-2103cff3c1b2.png?crop=1500%2C1000%2C0%2C0&resize=1370

Krystal n chips
19th Feb 2018, 05:35
Passing information to a Czech 'diplomat' during the 1980's in the cold war is absolutely NOT the same as speaking to a random diplomat today or being caught out in some shady deal by a fake sheikh.

We can only assume 2 things here. He was either fully complicit and acting against the interests of the UK in favour of his communist leanings or he really didn't realise he was talking to an agent, in which case he is a bigger idiot than most of us thought, including his Soviet 'handler'.

Whichever of these it is, it is clear he is not fit to be PM and should resign immediately and so should McDonnell. The fact he was also so close to another of the UK's foes during the 1980's in Adams & co make it fairly clear where his priorities lay.

How can these cretins stay in place after calling for so many resignations from others?

Followed by, or possibly in conjunction with, this equally priceless little gem....

" The fact that nobody had trusted him with secret information at that point is irrelevant; he was prepared to share what he did have

Who would have thunk it ! Another first for JB !

John le Carre eclipsed after all these years !

With apologies to Simon and Garfunkel here.....

"Where have you gone Joe McCarthy, JB turns its lonely eyes to you...wu wu wu "

Shurely though, with such hitherto undiscovered talent, it can only be a matter of days before a rail ticket arrives to either Vauxhall or Cheltenham where "you will be met on arrival ".

Trossie
19th Feb 2018, 06:40
... It happens. Get over it.
The 'left' really, really don't like this Thread, do they? With comments like that they are just wishing that it would go away and stop highlighting what an idiot (not my term, just repeating what some Czech guy who has known him said!) they have at the head of their only hopes for their form of politics in this country.

Just imagine the howls from the left if this had been a leader of the Tory Party that had information like this come out about them? The equivalent Thread would be about 20 pages long by now!

But when their shining beacon of leftiedom (or 'idiot', as someone else has called him) has this brought up against him it's "It happens. Get over it."

With this being thrown in on top of all his other very dodgy contacts and activities in his past as a political 'adult', it highlights just how immensely unsuitable he is to hold the position that he does, let alone any higher position. Stop trying to defend him or deflect the justified criticism, he is unsuitable. Just "Get over it."

Krystal n chips
19th Feb 2018, 06:50
The 'left' really, really don't like this Thread, do they? With comments like that they are just wishing that it would go away and stop highlighting what an idiot (not my term, just repeating what some Czech guy who has known him said!) they have at the head of their only hopes for their form of politics in this country.

Just imagine the howls from the left if this had been a leader of the Tory Party that had information like this come out about them? The equivalent Thread would be about 20 pages long by now!

But when their shining beacon of leftiedom (or 'idiot', as someone else has called him) has this brought up against him it's "It happens. Get over it."

With this being thrown in on top of all his other very dodgy contacts and activities in his past as a political 'adult', it highlights just how immensely unsuitable he is to hold the position that he does, let alone any higher position. Stop trying to defend him or deflect the justified criticism, he is unsuitable. Just "Get over it."

наоборот, товарищ, паранойя - это удовольствие читать

Will you be writing the foreword for the forthcoming Shot One / Prophead collaborative novel then ?

Trossie
19th Feb 2018, 07:06
Go for it Komrade! One is doing very well at keeping this Thread at the top of the JB list, isn't one? Good work. Keep it up!

Gertrude the Wombat
19th Feb 2018, 12:15
At least the BBC seem to be completely ignoring the whole story.
'Cos Corbyn is pro-brexit and the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation is pro-brexit (the clue's in the name, really) so they're not running any criticism of him?

Andy_S
19th Feb 2018, 12:55
Jezza really isn't very good at picking his friends, is he?

Homeless man mourned by Jeremy Corbyn was suspected migrant sex offender (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/19/homeless-man-lionised-jeremy-corbyn-suspected-migrant-sex-offender/)

Highway1
19th Feb 2018, 13:04
It would seem he was more 'Johnny English' than 'George Smiley' however so any novel would certainly be a comedy. I do think the UK government missed a trick though. Imagine how much disinformation they could have spread using agent Abbott.



oh please - I dont think even the Russkis would have been desperate enough to recruit agent Abbott - you can imagine the confusion in the Kremlin, 'we have a report from Agent Abbott claiming the UK has 20 million troops....or it might be 2 million troops... or maybe only 200,000' :uhoh:

Hussar 54
19th Feb 2018, 13:32
We had a similar thing with one of our politicos about seven or eight years ago.

Eventually, they managed to nail him on Tax Evasion charges as he didn't declare the ' Consultancy Fees ' he received for providing ' advice ' to a Russian company in the early 90's.

Any chance that the UK authorities might do the same with Corbyn ??

sitigeltfel
19th Feb 2018, 15:20
At least the BBC seem to be completely ignoring the whole story. Maybe the floodgates are about to open.

When Thornberry was asked about Corbyn's contacts with Palestinian terrorists, Venezuelan tyrants and Czech spies, she said it was because he is an "Internationalist".

racedo
19th Feb 2018, 17:03
Jezza really isn't very good at picking his friends, is he?

Homeless man mourned by Jeremy Corbyn was suspected migrant sex offender (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/19/homeless-man-lionised-jeremy-corbyn-suspected-migrant-sex-offender/)

So he put a card for a homeless who died yards from Parliment.................. so how again should someone know WHOM has committed a criminal offence or any offence.

Please do tell.

racedo
19th Feb 2018, 17:06
When Thornberry was asked about Corbyn's contacts with Palestinian terrorists, Venezuelan tyrants and Czech spies, she said it was because he is an "Internationalist".

What about PM May's willingness to meet with people practising genocide in Yemen, support IS and Al Qaeda in Syria and around the world.

As PM she has access to lots more information than a mere opposition leader yuet she still meets with them.

Gertrude the Wombat
19th Feb 2018, 17:10
Any chance that the UK authorities might do the same with Corbyn ??
Unlikely - he probably did it for free.

racedo
19th Feb 2018, 17:14
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/10/awkward-handshakes-through-history

Oh dear look at handshakes through the years with Maggie Thatcher meeting with an ANC leader,

Mind you she met hands with Rober Mugabe as well.

Lets not even go to teh fact that she was more than happy to invite Jimmy Saville into Number 10 and have him raise money for the torys as well.

Krystal n chips
19th Feb 2018, 17:15
When Thornberry was asked about Corbyn's contacts with Palestinian terrorists, Venezuelan tyrants and Czech spies, she said it was because he is an "Internationalist".

Siti....dashed good try there old boy !

Now, casteth thine mind back a few years......just by way of comparison...

Tories have forgotten that Thatcher wasn't just a terrorist sympathiser, but close friends with one | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/tories-have-forgotten-that-thatcher-wasnt-just-a-terrorist-sympathiser-but-close-friends-with-one-10507850.html)

Hussar 54
19th Feb 2018, 17:29
Unlikely - he probably did it for free.


Or maybe not.....


‘It was a consensual collaboration,’ Mr Sarkocy said. At his home in rural Slovakia, the 64-year-old added: ‘He was our asset, he had been recruited. He was getting money from us.’


Jeremy Corbyn was paid by Czech secret police spy claims | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5401097/Jeremy-Corbyn-paid-Czech-secret-police-spy-claims.html)

KelvinD
19th Feb 2018, 17:31
racedo: Well said! Mind you, you have left yourself open to accusations of the use of common sense. And we know that will not do!
The example of Syria is particularly sad. Assad (and his Dad) may have been harsh on those who don't toe the line but, to their credit, they managed to eradicate religious fanaticism, mainly of the Sunni variety. Hafez sorted out his own son and sent him into exile when it was found he was very corrupt. And our glorious leaders will supply & arm anyone who wants to return to the old days of extreme tribalism, religious savagery etc.
The same applies to Ukraine. The democratically elected leader of that country was overthrown. Despite the fact he was apparently a toe rag, he was nevertheless elected by popular vote. Our governments support the usurpers while banging on about democracy!
Meanwhile, let's wait and see what the hysterics will have to say about the response of the Czech government regarding Corbyn's contacts. Their records show he was a "person of interest" and never a paid asset.

Hussar 54
19th Feb 2018, 19:25
Meeting or shaking the hand of some undesirable people is absolutely different to being a paid informant to the Czechs during the cold war IF that is what he was.


Weren't the Czechs, at the time, the world's largest producer of Semtex ?

A useful tool for some of his other political friends of the time.

So just maybe he wasn't actually paid anything by the Czechs, and for anyone to suggest that he was is incorrect.

racedo
19th Feb 2018, 19:58
Meeting or shaking the hand of some undesirable people is absolutely different to being a paid informant to the Czechs during the cold war IF that is what he was.

This is someone that could end up as leader and was well known to be cosying up to the IRA. IF it turns out he was happy to pass information to those that were, to all intense and purposes, enemies of the UK then he should be prosecuted never mind sacked.

A full investigation should be carried out and that goes for the other 14 people mentioned.

ROFL

So Security services supposedly have this information for 30 years and not a thing.................. which shows what a crock it is.

As for cosying and meeting with IRA................ I am unaware he was doing it, he was meeting with Sinn Fein which included Gerry Adams who was an MP elected at same time in 1983 election.
MPs I believe have every right to visit House of Commons have they not ? and talk to other MPs ?

Oh and meeting Martin McGuinness................... wasn't this the same guy that notorious left wing socialist Willie Whitelaw flew to London in 1970's to arrange a ceasefire under a Tory PM ?

racedo
19th Feb 2018, 20:03
Weren't the Czechs, at the time, the world's largest producer of Semtex ?

A useful tool for some of his other political friends of the time.

So just maybe he wasn't actually paid anything by the Czechs, and for anyone to suggest that he was is incorrect.

PIRA got their Semtex from Libya which followed the US/UK bombing of Libya in 1986 did it not ?

After all once you sell (give) weapons and explosives to people you are then not responsible if they happen to fall into the wrong hands....................

At least this is the clear statement of HM Government on their handing of weapons to Free Syrian Army which found their way to Al Qaeda / IS is it not.

It was statement of HM Govt on Hawks sold to Indonesia used to bomb East Timorese.

It is statement of HM Govt on use of weapons and HMG personnel to target people in an illegal war being carried out by Saudi's in Yemen.

Gertrude the Wombat
19th Feb 2018, 20:05
Meeting or shaking the hand of some undesirable people is absolutely different to being a paid informant to the Czechs during the cold war
Yup - it can happen quite by accident. For example I once had to shake hands with Peter Mandelson - I hadn't seen him coming in time to get out of the way fast enough.

Hussar 54
19th Feb 2018, 20:26
PIRA got their Semtex from Libya which followed the US/UK bombing of Libya in 1986 did it not ?

After all once you sell (give) weapons and explosives to people you are then not responsible if they happen to fall into the wrong hands....................

At least this is the clear statement of HM Government on their handing of weapons to Free Syrian Army which found their way to Al Qaeda / IS is it not.

It was statement of HM Govt on Hawks sold to Indonesia used to bomb East Timorese.

It is statement of HM Govt on use of weapons and HMG personnel to target people in an illegal war being carried out by Saudi's in Yemen.


I won't disagree with anything you say about what the UK have done and continue to do with their arms sales. Likewise, the French, Israeli, US and Russian Governments continue to sell arms to whoever has the cash to buy them, so the UK is not alone in this respect.

And as you said,

After all once you sell (give) weapons and explosives to people you are then not responsible if they happen to fall into the wrong hands

I'm fairly sure that Libya didn't make the Semtex which finished up in Ireland but most probably bought it from the same country that Corbyn is alleged to have had ' inappropriate ' contact with at the same time he was meeting the political front for the IRA.

Coincidence, I'm sure, and not even worth mentioning so perhaps I shouldn't....

racedo
19th Feb 2018, 21:41
I'm fairly sure that Libya didn't make the Semtex which finished up in Ireland but most probably bought it from the same country that Corbyn is alleged to have had ' inappropriate ' contact with at the same time he was meeting the political front for the IRA.

Coincidence, I'm sure, and not even worth mentioning so perhaps I shouldn't....

Well Telegraph today is claiming the Czechesloakian spy had a farwell dinner hosted by MOD inside MOD HQ in London and attended by Jeremy Corbyn.

So lets just have a look at that....................

UK Security services expel a spy and MOD then decide oh lets have a going away party at UK Govt expense for him in the MOD and invite along MPs who have no Military involvement.

How likely is that ?

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/05/25/Britain-expels-Czechoslovak-diplomats-accused-of-spying/3714612072000/

Also interesting that in 1989 when said spy was expelled that they were

Expelled were Jan Paclicek, third secretry and press attache; Dr. Helena Krepelkova, second secretary; Jan Farkocy, third secretary; and Rudolf Kasparovsky, technical adviser.

No military attache there it seems............... so why would MOD hold a dinner ?

Great thing about HM Govt is that they keep a record of everything no matter how banal and trivial so a reception for a Foreign Diplomat who has been expelled and it is being held in MOD would have been duly recorded as would all the attendees.

Police would have policed the matter appropriately as it was a time of concern about PIRA activities plus supposedly foreign diplomats involved.

Time is easy as it will be between 25th of May and 8th of June 1989.

longer ron
19th Feb 2018, 21:45
Yup - it can happen quite by accident. For example I once had to shake hands with Peter Mandelson - I hadn't seen him coming in time to get out of the way fast enough.

Gawd what a horrible thought - how many times did you wash your hands after that :eek:

Gertrude the Wombat
19th Feb 2018, 21:53
Gawd what a horrible thought - how many times did you wash your hands after that :eek:

I did visit the loo quite soon afterwards, yes.

KelvinD
20th Feb 2018, 09:23
Prophead: For goodness' sake man. Green was NOT sacked for viewing legal porn. He was sacked for being a lying toe rag. He basically admitted as much on radio this morning.

Jack D
20th Feb 2018, 10:09
Given his or their age at the time, political orientation and activist sympathies would there be a plausible reason why sensitive information would not be passed. Perhaps unwittingly or not after a few vodkas ... apart from the obvious such as loyalty to the country, respect for the political system and so on . Just viewing this from another angle before the “innocent until proven guilty “ rants start ,

ShotOne
20th Feb 2018, 10:10
The posts by the true-believers here say everything about leftwing politics today. Whatever the evidence, it will make no difference to them. Corbyn has turned a once-proud party into a personality cult; anything against their hero is automatically a “smear” so doesn’t even need explaining

Trossie
20th Feb 2018, 10:16
The posts by the true-believers here say everything about leftwing politics today. Whatever the evidence, it will make no difference to them. Corbyn has turned a once-proud party into a personality cult; anything against their hero is automatically a “smear” so doesn’t even need explainingSounds like religion.

charliegolf
20th Feb 2018, 10:52
The posts by the true-believers here say everything about leftwing politics today. Whatever the evidence, it will make no difference to them. Corbyn has turned a once-proud party into a personality cult; anything against their hero is automatically a “smear” so doesn’t even need explaining

My personal belief is that only a tiny minority of voters will change their affiliations other than the odd protest vote. Kiddie porn participation pics/vids aside, Shotone's view works for the Tories too. And the Taffs and the Jocks and the Fenians too. It's because everyone thinks they've sensibly weighed up the arguments, debated the issues and come to an informed decision. It surprises me that it causes surprise.:ok:

CG

ShotOne
20th Feb 2018, 11:08
“Works for the Tories too..” The point is cg, it doesn’t. As has been pointed out, when questions arose about Mr Green he was required to a) give an explanation b)resign when it was found unsatisfactory. In this case neither has happened

Blacksheep
20th Feb 2018, 12:41
MPs I believe have every right to visit House of Commons have they not ? and talk to other MPs ?Gerry Adams was indeed elected but as he didn't submit to the Oath and take his seat he was never an actual MP.

As for Corbyn, he was as described - an "honest idiot" and he still is, although that's a bigger danger now than it was then. It's not abnormal for young people to have hard-core socialist tendencies, but hanging onto them into one's late sixties is. Having a social conscience is admirable but some of the things that Corbyn and his deputy McDonnell say indicate an intention to go much further than Atlee's Labour administration (and for goodness sake, that was bad enough!)

sitigeltfel
20th Feb 2018, 14:47
Corbyn has turned a once-proud party into a personality cult; anything against their hero is automatically a “smear” so doesn’t even need explaining

If smears are a problem, he can call on Jim the washing machine salesman to remove them. Make sure the correct white powder is used though.
Needs to be whiter than white, not high as a kite.

racedo
20th Feb 2018, 18:29
Gerry Adams was indeed elected but as he didn't submit to the Oath and take his seat he was never an actual MP.



Factually incorrect.

The designation of WHOM is an MP is the returning office for said constituency after a count has occurred.

Parliment doesn't get to decide WHOM is an MP although courts have been usedin the past to disqualify people.

racedo
20th Feb 2018, 18:42
Or in other words, you don't have a clue whether he was or not. The fact he has been under suspicion before for having links to IRA terrorists suggests that he would be wise to allow access to his Stasi file. The same goes for McDonnell. This will not go away and will follow them unless it is discredited.

Stasi was East German security services and any data held by them is now held by German Government not any individual.

Yet the former spy's claims have been disputed by the head of the Czech intelligence archives.
Svetlana Ptáčníková said: “Mr Corbyn was neither registered [by the StB] as a collaborator, nor does this [his alleged collaboration] stem from archive documents."


So now that Czech Intelligence services have discredited the claims of a former diplomat I assume you will agree the claims are discredited.


As for claims that he met McDonnell in Guildford................. as he was a spy being watched by MI5 then archive records will of course be available for his visit.


As Wasaw pact diplomats had to notify Foreign Office when they went more than 20 miles from their embassy then this would have had to have been notifified in following Diplomatic protocols.

racedo
20th Feb 2018, 18:48
“Works for the Tories too..” The point is cg, it doesn’t. As has been pointed out, when questions arose about Mr Green he was required to a) give an explanation b)resign when it was found unsatisfactory. In this case neither has happened

Green wasn't required to resign, he was instructed by Prime Minister of resign or be fired. He had every right not to resign.

He is still MP for Ashford.

racedo
20th Feb 2018, 18:56
The posts by the true-believers here say everything about leftwing politics today. Whatever the evidence, it will make no difference to them. Corbyn has turned a once-proud party into a personality cult; anything against their hero is automatically a “smear” so doesn’t even need explaining

As I have already asked ................

Where is the evidence ?

Czech intelligence service who hold the archives say there is nothing.

HOC hold all records of visitors so lets see that.

Diplomat has claimed MOD held a reception in MOD HQ where Jeremy Corbyn was present but only problem with that was
Jan Sarkocy was NOT a designated military attache as press had indicated in 1989 when he was expelled.
Therefore no reason why they would hold a reception for a 3rd secretary.
Secondly all Govt buildings with PIRA threat had full security and everyone signs in and out so an Archive record would exist of attendees.
Timing of supposed reception would be in a 2 week Window in May - June 1989 which makes it even easier................ strange no records exist as HM Govt keeps records for EVERYTHING.

racedo
20th Feb 2018, 18:59
No I don't, would you expect MI5 to give up foreign politicians as past informers if asked?

Czech govt have zero to do with Czecheslovakian Govt of that time and the archives exist.

What you are now claiming is, a discredited Diplomat whose claim he was a Military Attache, not supported by HM Govts official decision to expel him, should be believed because it suits your politics.

Krystal n chips
21st Feb 2018, 03:48
" Caution "...contains a link to the Guardian.

Disclaimer.....no Bots were involved in the compilation of this post.

Despite the fervent, and fevered, hopes of many on here, clearly the fallacy and allegations have attracted a wider audience not given to histrionics and able to distinguish fact from fiction.

The fiction, in this case, originating from the three media sources mentioned......now there's a surprise !

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/20/no-evidence-corbyn-was-spy-for-czechoslovakia-say-intelligence-experts

However, all is not lost for those convinced any and everybody who is left wing and socialist is automatically a died in the wool "Trot / Marx / Lenin / Mao / Kim il fat wun" sympathiser because, much to their delight no doubt, two former Labour MP's ( and one Tory ) do get a less than honourable mentions when it comes to providing information.

sitigeltfel
21st Feb 2018, 05:58
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3e20a9f2e527f40c110cfd5406a1ff265627a6e7167595d7d2b70e01185f ef3a.jpg?w=600&h=510

Jetex_Jim
21st Feb 2018, 07:09
https://twitter.com/EdwardHMO/status/966035327830945793

ShotOne
21st Feb 2018, 08:35
“Czech intelligence....say there’s nothing..” No they didn’t racedo. They said Corbyn was a “person of interest” rather than a paid informant. This falls well short of explaining why a back-bench MP was conducting meetings with a “diplomat” (to give Corbyn generous benefit of the doubt) of a hostile foreign power.

Krystal n chips
21st Feb 2018, 09:12
“Czech intelligence....say there’s nothing..” No they didn’t racedo. They said Corbyn was a “person of interest” rather than a paid informant. This falls well short of explaining why a back-bench MP was conducting meetings with a “diplomat” (to give Corbyn generous benefit of the doubt) of a hostile foreign power.

Ah, that indomitable British trait.......tenacity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1VmCts-35s

Pace
21st Feb 2018, 09:43
No, I am saying any MP who was a known communist sympathiser that met with a Czech diplomat that was later expelled for spying probably should be investigated.

Investigated by who ? The Daily Mail or some official investigation
I am no fan of Corbyn but smell the media targeting the player not the ball because they fear losing control of the ball

It’s called raking up mud by the judge and jury media

sitigeltfel
21st Feb 2018, 09:54
Investigated by who ? The Daily Mail or some official investigation
I am no fan of Corbyn but smell the media targeting the player not the ball because they fear losing control of the ball

It’s called raking up mud by the judge and jury media

Accepts cash from the despotic Iranian regime.
Gives support to Irish terrorists who slaughter British citizens.
Tells us that the Venezuelan socialist disaster is a model for the UK economy.

Now, it is not difficult to believe that he was in the pay of other regimes when his proven record is examined.

Paid in cash, or by Czech?

ORAC
21st Feb 2018, 09:58
Jeremy Corbyn vs Vaclac Havel....

https://order-order.com/2018/02/20/live-truth-corbyn-versus-havel/

treadigraph
21st Feb 2018, 10:15
I loved the "Venezuala reports UK food shortages" link amongst the comments in that Guido item

food shortages in Britain being reported in Venezuala

Trossie
21st Feb 2018, 10:44
What you are now claiming is, ... ... ..., should be believed because it suits your politics.Why not? If any accusation is made against any Tory. the left will be claiming that, even if discredited, it should be believed 'because it suits their politics'. What's good for the goose is good for the gander (just to bring in some gender equality!).

sitigeltfel
21st Feb 2018, 11:23
I loved the "Venezuala reports UK food shortages" link amongst the comments in that Guido item

The difference is that people in the UK have many alternative choices, in the Socialist paradise of Venezuela, they have none.

Let them eat rabbits!

Trossie
21st Feb 2018, 11:30
Corbyn ?was the baddie in 1970s Bond movie? (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/corbyn-was-the-baddie-in-1970s-bond-movie-20180220144612)

treadigraph
21st Feb 2018, 12:00
I can see Komrade Korbyn shortly offering the gullible free fried chicken (and a coke) in a bid to further boost his popularity.

Krystal n chips
21st Feb 2018, 12:27
All sitting comfortably chaps ?....

Out in the real world....

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/21/labour-mp-barry-gardiner-fantasist-media-corbyn-spy-claims

It's the last paragraph, the one containing the views of the Mail, the rag being more than complicit in this saga and the justification ( non that's anywhere near credible ) for publishing these allegations that, astute readers will note, bears " a close similarity " to several posts on here.

Quelle surprise !

Pace
21st Feb 2018, 12:34
Labour to sweep London in local elections with best result for any party since 1968, new poll suggests | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-london-local-elections-2018-win-best-results-party-poll-a8221081.html)

The right wing media attacks on Corbyn are more motivated by the above today’s news than any desire to get truth
As stated you can’t play the ball so stick your foot under the player
That comes from me no supporter of Corbyn

racedo
21st Feb 2018, 18:05
No, I am saying any MP who was a known communist sympathiser that met with a Czech diplomat that was later expelled for spying probably should be investigated. They were no doubt under suspicion at the time and if this is new evidence then it should be looked into.




ROFL

You clearly have never met the Met's Finest or or of the MI mob.

They knew every spy by name and record and whom they met and they met a lot of people including Govt ministers................... that is an accredited diplomats job is repreesenting their country in an Embassy.

racedo
21st Feb 2018, 18:17
https://reportdigital.wordpress.com/2015/07/23/photo-archive-jeremy-corbyn-1987-socialist-society-conference-chesterfield-labourleadership/

Oh dear the Spys story keeps coming undone as supposedly he was meeting Cobyn in house of Commons in 1987 when Chesterfield Socialist conference was taking place............. there is even a photo of him there and ITN recorded the event.

KelvinD
21st Feb 2018, 19:12
The Czech authorities kept huge amounts of intelligence on everything and everyone and their record keeping was very detailed. I had a good, close up view of this in late 1993, very soon after the Czech Republic and Slovakia had split. I was doing a job for the Chief of Police in Brno and our in-country agent/friend of mine just happened to be a friend of the Chief. (Imagine that!). One day in the chief's office, my mate and the Chief were in some heated discussion and eventually my friend told me what was going on. Someone in the city had come into possession of a 3 inch floppy which contained huge lists of domestic informers, their secret police handlers, addresses etc. And it was huge. My friend had escaped from Communist Czechoslovakia, via Hungary and found refuge in the US some years before. He wanted to take this list and get some revenge on some people. Fortunately, the chief was of a cooler temperament and he decided it would be foolish to allow this to find its way into wider circulation.
The point was though the amount of detail the security people maintained and from what I saw, I can be sure that the info coming now form the Czechs can be counted as reliable.
The info from the media here on the other hand...

ORAC
21st Feb 2018, 19:16
When will they learn, it’s never the offence - if there was one - it’s always the cover up....

https://order-order.com/2018/02/21/stasi-file-reveals-corbyns-peace-group-was-infiltrated-by-east-german-spies/

https://order-order.com/2018/02/21/read-in-full-stasi-file-on-british-labour-party/

https://order-order.com/2018/02/21/can-guido-readers-get-corbyn-sign-stasi-archives-consent-form/

Stasi kept 'top secret' files on Labour group which Jeremy Corbyn helped to run (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/02/21/stasi-kept-top-secret-files-labour-group-jeremy-corbyn-helped/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5633745/jeremy-corbyn-ran-a-peace-group-which-was-riddled-with-communist-spies-secret-files-show/

East German spies infiltrated peace group led by Corbyn | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5417549/East-German-spies-infiltrated-peace-group-led-Corbyn.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailUK)

MG23
21st Feb 2018, 19:50
To be fair, it's not exactly a shock to discover that left-wingers in the UK were working for the Soviets.

racedo
21st Feb 2018, 21:19
When will they learn, it’s never the offence - if there was one - it’s always the cover up....

East German spies infiltrated peace group led by Corbyn | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5417549/East-German-spies-infiltrated-peace-group-led-Corbyn.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailUK)


Hardly a shock as UK Intelligence services infiltrated them as well, just like they had CND infiltrated and Familes for Defence was also well infiltrated.

racedo
21st Feb 2018, 21:20
To be fair, it's not exactly a shock to discover that left-wingers in the UK were working for the Soviets.

Think you may be shocked that there were a few right wingers as well......

Krystal n chips
22nd Feb 2018, 05:11
I wish to commend the current Gov't, seriously !....for their unstinting efforts to ensure they are not returned to office after the next GE....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/21/spying-row-how-corbyn-seized-chance-to-take-on-the-sun

Can we assume, definitive though it is, the use of the word "hallucinatory " won't meet with universal approval from some contributors on here ?

treadigraph
22nd Feb 2018, 07:17
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/PortalPictures/February2018/2202-MATT-PORTAL-WEB-P1.png?imwidth=300

Krystal n chips
22nd Feb 2018, 11:30
Ooops !

Now, leaving the rags aside for one minute ( no doubt they will claim he sent a doppelganger, apart from the Sun in deference to the limited vocabulary of the readership ) we await the deductive skills, and exotic imaginations (of which there is no shortage on here relating to this topic) as to why, and this is where it gets a shade complex, Corbyn could, erm, be in two places at once.....and a mere 150 miles away from a closed venue at that.

https://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/jeremy-corbyn-in-chesterfield-on-the-day-of-alleged-czech-spy-meeting-1-9030107

Over to you..chaps..for your entries for this years Man Booker prize !

Trossie
22nd Feb 2018, 13:12
Komrad, old chap! You are doing a spiffingly good job, with your constant posts, at keeping attention to Komrad Cob's dodgy past dealings at the top of this JB reading list! Keep up the good work old boy!! Someone might write out a good Czech for you some day for 'services provided'.

ShotOne
22nd Feb 2018, 13:22
So Krystal you’re trying to tell us none of these meetings took place? Do try to keep up with the Central Committee old boy because even Corbyn himself isn’t saying that. But if you’re correct I’m sure we’ll see him take legal action against those saying so.

Krystal n chips
22nd Feb 2018, 15:06
So Krystal you’re trying to tell us none of these meetings took place? Do try to keep up with the Central Committee old boy because even Corbyn himself isn’t saying that. But if you’re correct I’m sure we’ll see him take legal action against those saying so.

Not in the slightest, in response to the first part of your post that is, however, if you have a viable explanation as to why he was 150 miles away from the H.o.P which were closed when he allegedly had a meeting there on the day in question....then please feel free to share it.

It would also seem, in response to the latter part of your post, you don't read the links provided.

@ Trossie....it must be heart breaking, just when you thought all your wildest dreams and wishes were about to come true, only to find them dashed like flotsam on the shore.

57mm
22nd Feb 2018, 16:55
Can't see what all the fuss is about; after all, erstwhile Labour defence minister Denis Healey was once a member of the Communist party......

Trossie
22nd Feb 2018, 18:36
...

@ Trossie....it must be heart breaking, just when you thought all your wildest dreams and wishes were about to come true, only to find them dashed like flotsam on the shore.
(What's with the "@"?)

'Heart breaking'?? I am absolutely delighted that my 'wildest dreams' are being met with a leftie doing his best to keep attention on his glorious leader's dodgy past dealings!! Keep it up, Komrad! Another reply will keep this topic right to the top!!

Lancelot37
22nd Feb 2018, 19:03
The penalty for Treason in this country is execution. Wonder if will ever get to a trial to prove one way or the other. Comrade Corbyn is the best advert for voting Tory that we've ever had.

G-CPTN
23rd Feb 2018, 08:42
The penalty for Treason in this country is execution.

Not since 1998:- Since the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 became law, the maximum sentence for treason in the UK has been life imprisonment.

ORAC
23rd Feb 2018, 09:24
I am reminded of a quote by a defecting Soviet security agent who was asked if the UK should be worried by infiltration into organisations such as CND, Stop the War, Mikitant (as it was in those days) etc.

“Not really”, he replied, “they haven’t got anything worth stealing”....

Planemike
23rd Feb 2018, 09:31
The penalty for Treason in this country is execution. Wonder if will ever get to a trial to prove one way or the other. Comrade Corbyn is the best advert for voting Tory that we've ever had.


Alternatively, he could be the best reason for voting Socialist !!!
Just saying, to give a balance view...!!!

NutLoose
23rd Feb 2018, 11:07
So does this all make Diane Abbott a sleeper?

TURIN
23rd Feb 2018, 12:40
...Corbyn seems very reluctant to allow his personal files from that era to be published.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but who amongst us keeps personal 'files' for that length of time?

Krystal n chips
23rd Feb 2018, 13:00
Indeed, I don't think anyone really believes that Corbyn or McDonnell were selling secrets or even had any secrets worth selling. The reason these organisations would have been infiltrated was to encourage civil & political unrest at the time and spread Communist propaganda. It is far more likely these idealists would have been used and encouraged to stir things up.

There are also theories that protests around secure sites such as Greenham Common were used as a cover to spy on said facilities and this would seem plausible, you just need enough easily encouraged gullible lefties. I think we have always had plenty of those.

I doubt a large number of people that were being used by the soviets ever knew they were doing so. This would fit in with the accusation of 'Useful Idiot'.

The story here is that, a potential PM and Chancellor may have been used in such a way and, if they were, we need to know about it. There is also the fact that after making such a fuss about people being made to reveal their earnings and tax returns, Corbyn seems very reluctant to allow his personal files from that era to be published.

Prophead ..ahem, cough !....

Seemingly you did in, erm, # 18

" Passing information to a Czech 'diplomat' during the 1980's in the cold war is absolutely NOT the same as speaking to a random diplomat today or being caught out in some shady deal by a fake sheikh.

We can only assume 2 things here. He was either fully complicit and acting against the interests of the UK in favour of his communist leanings or he really didn't realise he was talking to an agent, in which case he is a bigger idiot than most of us thought, including his Soviet 'handler'.

But, with the ability to change tack like that, surely you will be in great demand at Cowes Week !...or as a sub-editor on the Mail.

However, lest I be accused of being churlish here and with the forthcoming novel in mind, it's possible you did so to entice the audience further into the web of intrigue it will doubtless contain.

ShotOne
23rd Feb 2018, 13:17
The point is Krystal we’ve no idea what the meetings were about. Perhaps an innocent cup of tea like your man says. Personally I agree that the selling secrets angle is probably wide of the mark, if only because nobody was daft enough to trust him with any. But to simply state it’s all smears leaving the key questions unanswered won’t wash for anyone but the true faithful. Corbyn can teach us all about smears; just ask the widow of Leon Brittan who he viciously slandered on the basis of no evidence at all. Kinder gentler politics indeed!

Mike6567
23rd Feb 2018, 14:46
I always think in the end when Mr Corbyn has been PM for a while and everything is falling apart he will be like Alec Guinness at the end of "Bridge on the River Kwai" when he reailises what he has done.

Can I post youtube clips? at 50+ secs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRHVMi3LxZE

Highway1
23rd Feb 2018, 14:56
I used to think that the Soviet espionage services were quite efficient but I have to reassess that view now that it turns out their secret agents were Jeremy Corbyn and Donald Trump..:sad:

Ancient Observer
23rd Feb 2018, 15:14
If labour are elected, Corbyn will only run the Labour Party for a few days. He will stand aside for Comrade Seumas Milne. Corrade Milne will not be an MP, so he will be given a Lordship.
Comrade Lord Milne will then implement their policy.
And if you think that is far fetched, remember what Labour did to get Red Ken in as the boss of the GLC. Immediately after the labour election win, the winning Labour leader was, er, "retired" by the Trots and Pinkoes.

MG23
23rd Feb 2018, 15:58
I always think in the end when Mr Corbyn has been PM for a while and everything is falling apart he will be like Alec Guinness at the end of "Bridge on the River Kwai" when he reailises what he has done.

Why?

All the left care about is power. They'd rather be king in a subsistence economy than flipping burgers in a 21st century nation.

It's the kids who vote for him who'll be regretting what they did, as they find themselves living in Norther Korea.

Mike6567
23rd Feb 2018, 16:17
You are correct MG. I had assumed he is a bit dim but as you say the rest know what they are aiming for.
I can't think of a clip for when the masses realise what they have done.

Krystal n chips
23rd Feb 2018, 17:08
The point is Krystal we’ve no idea what the meetings were about. Perhaps an innocent cup of tea like your man says. Personally I agree that the selling secrets angle is probably wide of the mark, if only because nobody was daft enough to trust him with any. But to simply state it’s all smears leaving the key questions unanswered won’t wash for anyone but the true faithful. Corbyn can teach us all about smears; just ask the widow of Leon Brittan who he viciously slandered on the basis of no evidence at all. Kinder gentler politics indeed!

Actually, the key points are, that these seem to be routine meetings, common practice for many years, now being promoted in certain media with a vested interest in being detrimental to Corbyn, and the Labour party, to attempt to influence, by inference, the electorate with the all too evident demise of the Tory party in sight and the emerging prospect of a Labour Gov't as a result.

Others are that the former agents version of events has obviously come under closer scrutiny and have found to be not entirely accurate shall we say, as well as being discredited by sources whom most people would consider to be more reliable.

How's the research into how he was transmogrified ( that's a good Guardian word ) from actually being in Chesterfield to being in London coming along ?


Prophead ....

" What I said seems pretty consistent to me"

Well it would now wouldn't it, you wrote it after all....in contrast to which, I simply noted the, erm, divergence from your original deductions.

ShotOne
23rd Feb 2018, 19:49
So these were routine meetings, common practice...but he was in Chesterfield at the time? For all of them. Make your mind up.

Trossie
23rd Feb 2018, 19:59
Of course, everyone does realise that if Komrad Corbyn did ever manage to get into No 10, Momentum would have all the freedom to have this discussion shut down.They will have a General Enhancement of Socialist Tendency Policy Office established to crack down on all this dissent.

Trossie
23rd Feb 2018, 20:01
Komrad KnC, still keeping this to the top of the reading list I see. Well done old chap!

thegypsy
23rd Feb 2018, 20:59
I would guess the Komrad would never have been accepted into the V Bomber Force if interviewed by Bing Cross:{

andytug
23rd Feb 2018, 22:01
And how easy, exactly, would it be for Comrade Corbyn to turn the UK into a poorer version of Venezuela, as the media seem to be pushing the line that that it is his intention?

Krystal n chips
24th Feb 2018, 04:17
So these were routine meetings, common practice...but he was in Chesterfield at the time? For all of them. Make your mind up.

Oh dear.

Allow me to add some clarification to assuage your confusion here.

Meetings.

Common practice for politicians of all hues to meet with diplomats and "diplomats " ( the British may not be entirely innocent in this respect you will be shocked to learn )over tea n biccies, or canapés if you want to be posh and sophisticated of course, for years. Nothing remotely new there.

The Chesterfield conundrum.

Now, I'm not a spook, but, from what is available in the public domain, those who are tend to be very interested in details. Thus it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect the former agent in question to be similarly trained.

Unfortunately however, in the case of the alleged meeting in the H.o.P his attention to detail seems to have lapsed somewhat. I would suggest you read the link provided to confirm this.

racedo
24th Feb 2018, 10:36
Oh dear.

Allow me to add some clarification to assuage your confusion here.

Meetings.

Common practice for politicians of all hues to meet with diplomats and "diplomats " ( the British may not be entirely innocent in this respect you will be shocked to learn )over tea n biccies, or canapés if you want to be posh and sophisticated of course, for years. Nothing remotely new there.

The Chesterfield conundrum.

Now, I'm not a spook, but, from what is available in the public domain, those who are tend to be very interested in details. Thus it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect the former agent in question to be similarly trained.

Unfortunately however, in the case of the alleged meeting in the H.o.P his attention to detail seems to have lapsed somewhat. I would suggest you read the link provided to confirm this.

Bearing in mind the Chesterfield Socialist conference was a gathering of all on the left post Tory election victory. Anybody who was anybody on the left needed to be there, the abscence of Corbyn would have been noted and commented on big time.

ShotOne
24th Feb 2018, 11:31
That’s a straight repeat of your earlier post; what have you “clarified”? Either these meetings took place, “tea n biccies” all above board, or they’re all a fabrication and your man never met the spy. You can’t have it both ways so make your mind up. Which is it? All that’s being asked is a straightforward explanation from Corbyn. But all we’ve heard is bluster and threats; A snapshot of how his UK Soviet Republic would be run.

racedo
24th Feb 2018, 14:44
That’s a straight repeat of your earlier post; what have you “clarified”? Either these meetings took place, “tea n biccies” all above board, or they’re all a fabrication and your man never met the spy. You can’t have it both ways so make your mind up. Which is it? All that’s being asked is a straightforward explanation from Corbyn. But all we’ve heard is bluster and threats; A snapshot of how his UK Soviet Republic would be run.

Do I believe Corbyn met people is House of Commons............... yes,

Would some of them have been spies for the then Warsaw pact countrys.................. probably,
Would some of them have been spies for NATO countrys................. probably,
Would some of them have been spies for Israel, other countrys................. probably
Would he have met members of UK Intelligence services in various different guises.............. the answer is a clear Yes on that one.

Did Corbyn attend Chesterfiedl Socialist meeting the answer is Yes.
which neatly kills the claim he was in House of Commons on a Saturday.

Would a politician walk away from an ideological conference of like minded people (Left or Right), to return to London (3 -4 hrs minimum at that time), to go to a closed building to meet with a non descript Diplomat whom had met once or twice previously ?

Answer is an easy one and that is a No.

Nothing in it for Corbyn.
Where as Chesterfield conference was bringing together loads of people of the left with an Aim of an Anti Tory and Labour, Socialist Coalition.

We are talking of a unknown Labour left winger, viewed as never likely to be ever considered for a position in HMG, in the unlikely even Labour ever got back into power.

Great thing about HMG is that is keeps records, yet strangely media are not running to access them with FOI.

Easy to detail visitors who went into HOC on day of Chesterfield conference, even easier who attended the supposed MOD Function for a diplomat who was being expelled who WAS NOT an accredited Military Attache as per HMG when he was expelled.

The devil is in the detail and once you start looking at it then it is clear it doesn't add up.

UK Security Services will have all the details because they good at following Spies around London.

Planemike
24th Feb 2018, 16:21
Seems that the MP who first raised this matter is having to "back track"... Ho hum....!!

Krystal n chips
24th Feb 2018, 17:35
That’s a straight repeat of your earlier post; what have you “clarified”? Either these meetings took place, “tea n biccies” all above board, or they’re all a fabrication and your man never met the spy. You can’t have it both ways so make your mind up. Which is it? All that’s being asked is a straightforward explanation from Corbyn. But all we’ve heard is bluster and threats; A snapshot of how his UK Soviet Republic would be run.

Let me think here......JB version

"Balaclava clad Momentum thugs force honest Tory MP into retracting statement !! "

Reality statement.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/24/ben-bradley-apologises-unreservedly-for-corbyn-spy-claims

The video is even better. Note the former occupation of Steve Baker. True to the duplicity of his Branch when it comes to being unable to answer reasonable questions and confronted with overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

It's always nice when novels have a happy ending......

ORAC
25th Feb 2018, 07:28
In the Grauniad, so it must be true......

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/25/corbyn-czechoslovakian-spy-cold-war-long-shadow-labour-left

Trossie
25th Feb 2018, 07:41
And how easy, exactly, would it be for Comrade Corbyn to turn the UK into a poorer version of Venezuela, as the media seem to be pushing the line that that it is his intention?The way that Mr Broon was doing so in 2010 before the electorate stopped him.

Trossie
25th Feb 2018, 07:44
Heard an excellent comment on the radio yesterday: Corbyn wasn't a Soviet agent; he was a Tory 'sleeper' agent embedded in the Labour Party to be activated when the Tories weren't doing quite so well.

Cornish Jack
25th Feb 2018, 17:26
I understand that the nice Mr Bradley has very generously made some donations to charities which are in need of funds as a result of his Party's social policies. Could this be true? He seemed (like some of JB's contributors) to be so confident of the truth of the scandal which he helped to expose. I find this quite worrying. It is almost as though one should doubt the words of our elected representatives. I fully appreciate that, as a member of a Party which knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing, he would feel that attempting to trash someone's reputation was a matter of little consequence. One can only hope that his donations reflect the high level of stupidity of his actions. Perhaps his dedicated supporters on this forum would suffer sufficient pangs of conscience to do likewise ... but, then again .........

ORAC
25th Feb 2018, 17:40
Then again, John McDonnell has refused to apologise for calling for Esther McVey to be lynched, or calling all Tory MPs murderers for causing the Grenfell fire, and many other offences; thus saving himself having to contribute a penny to anyone. No doubt he contributed in the past to his IRA pals.

I know the hand of which of the two I’d more willingly shake.....

neila83
25th Feb 2018, 17:43
The way that Mr Broon was doing so in 2010 before the electorate stopped him.

You're not really that dim are you? I guess you don't know a lot about Venezuela? If you think the UK has ever been close to being 'a poorer Venezuela', you have no idea what a privileged life you've led. I have close friends from there, they would be happy to inform you on a few things.

Trossie
25th Feb 2018, 17:53
Mr Broon was doing his best to head us in that direction. The Spend-Spend-Spend (Oh and it's 'costed'!!!?) mantra that we hear from the Cortwit will take us that way faster than Broon was doing. (I fully agree that we are a long, long, long way from being like Venezuela but when you look at who in this country has 'lauded' Venezuela so much, that should explain my concerns about the party that has had both Broon and the Cortwit as its leader.)

I think that Mr Bradley has done very well apologising for his error. I wish that just some of those on t'other side would do similar. ORAC's comments cover that one quite well.

neila83
25th Feb 2018, 18:28
Mr Broon was doing his best to head us in that direction. The Spend-Spend-Spend (Oh and it's 'costed'!!!?) mantra that we hear from the Cortwit will take us that way faster than Broon was doing. (I fully agree that we are a long, long, long way from being like Venezuela but when you look at who in this country has 'lauded' Venezuela so much, that should explain my concerns about the party that has had both Broon and the Cortwit as its leader.)

I think that Mr Bradley has done very well apologising for his error. I wish that just some of those on t'other side would do similar. ORAC's comments cover that one quite well.

Economists shouldn't talk about how to fly planes. Perfectly fair, I've been put in my place here before. And if they don't want to be hypocrites, pilots probably shouldn't talk about economics judging by this tripe. (Ok I don't actually know if you're a pilot, but you sure as hell don't know much about economics).

If you care to read outside the pages of the Mail/Sun you'll find that the rest of the world actually credits Mr. Broon with averting a global financial catastrophe. Yes, far worse than the one we went through. Now it is possible that you know better than the leaders of the rest of the free world and their advisors, but it's unlikely. Whatever else he did or didn' dot, he was probably the best person we could have had at the helm at that time. Ironically for precisely some of the reasons he didn't make a good PM.

I don't think he was a great PM, indeed he was a huge disappointment, and by any historical measure he ran the country in a right of centre way. Anyone believing a narrative he was some kind of Bolivarian really needs to go and read a bit and think for themselves. Its painfully obvious when people are regurgitating soundbites without really knowing what they mean.

neila83
25th Feb 2018, 18:30
Coming back to topic, I'd say we should be far more worried about Teresa May's meetings with Rupert Murdoch and Paul Dacre. One wonders why they might be afraid of Mr. Corbyn? I mean, we know they definitely have Britain's best interests at heart.

aox
25th Feb 2018, 19:55
I used to think that the Soviet espionage services were quite efficient but I have to reassess that view now that it turns out their secret agents were Jeremy Corbyn and Donald Trump..:sad:

The truth is stranger ...

It transpires during this weekend, a diplomat confessed in 1951 to supplying information to the Soviet Union, and instead of him being tried and convicted the Foreign Office covered it all up, and he ended up working for the Daily Telegraph.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/unmasked-the-daily-telegraph-reporter-david-pink-floyd-who-spied-for-moscow-gv9mqp0vt

cavortingcheetah
25th Feb 2018, 20:28
It really doesn't matter anyway.
Once the Marxists move into power and Jeremy Corbyn, the Trojan horse, has been replaced by someone more radical, it will only be a matter of time before Britain is bailed out of its forthcoming financial catastrophe by Russia in the time honoured tradition in which payment will be becoming a base of the Russian navy and air force.
A triumph for Russia and the youth of Britain will get what they most deserve, stern government and swift centralised retribution for any comments to the critical contrary.

k3k3
25th Feb 2018, 21:12
It was all forseen a long time ago:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/a-very-british-coup/on-demand/1867-001

neila83
25th Feb 2018, 21:58
It really doesn't matter anyway.
Once the Marxists move into power and Jeremy Corbyn, the Trojan horse, has been replaced by someone more radical, it will only be a matter of time before Britain is bailed out of its forthcoming financial catastrophe by Russia in the time honoured tradition in which payment will be becoming a base of the Russian navy and air force.
A triumph for Russia and the youth of Britain will get what they most deserve, stern government and swift centralised retribution for any comments to the critical contrary.

Right.......

ShotOne
26th Feb 2018, 08:43
Odd to see Labour moaning about smears since they're Ok about dishing them out. Not so much about apologies though; “Why aren’t we lynching the bitch” “Thatcher should be assassinated”. “More evil than any human..” In the last case there was a lame partial retraction but not a breath of apology for any of the others.

I can’t help feeling that Corbyn is actually relieved by the Cold War controversy as it distracts the pressure from his own side over his Brexit shimmying. After over a year of cynical fence-sitting seemingly heading now for a worst-of-all-worlds: Out but with an EU veto over our world trade for ever

Trossie
26th Feb 2018, 21:20
Methinks that he's been hoping that this 'soviet spy' story would build up a bit more steam in order to help mask his Brexit U-turn! He wants us to be subjugated to someone non-British and if the USSR isn't around any more the EU will do in its place.

Big wooden spoon and stir.