Hour building - Cross country....

[Ginger Ninja]

I am doing ATPL's course at the moment and squeezing in my hour building at the same time.

I have been looking through the minimum requirements before being allowed to start the MEIR/CPL course (to make sure I meet them!).

The CAA website states;

"Flying experience

You must also have completed at least 50 hours of cross country flight time as Pilot in Command (PIC) in aeroplanes, TMGs, helicopters or airships of which at least 10 hours shall be in aeroplanes."

Could someone help clarify what the proper definition is of a "cross country flight"?

I asked within my flying club, which I got varied answers. I have googled and as expected, loads of different opinions. I found a couple of posts on here were folk stated it was either;


take off at airfield A and land at airfield B, to other folk saying
as long as you are not flying within the circuit pattern, have pre-planned a route, you fly the route and thereafter return to the same airfield.

I know that part of the hour building, I must complete a 300NM flight with two full stop landings at two different airfields.

I might answer my own question here, but on checking the CAA website under CPL requirements, it states (I have only copied part of this);

"CPL(A) modular experience requirements which must be met before the CPL skills test.

This must include the following:

Pilot in Command (PIC)
100 hours as PIC, of which 20 hours of cross-country flight as PIC, which shall include a VFR cross-country flight of at least 540km (300 NM), in the course of which full stop landings at two aerodromes different from the aerodrome of departure must be made.

Night
5 hours of flight time must be completed at night, comprising 3 hours of dual instruction which must include at least 1 hour of cross-country navigation and 5 solo take-offs and 5 solo full stop landings."

When I completed my night rating, my so called cross country was take off and landing at the same airfield, but I was required to pre-plan my route and stick to that route.

So, am I right in saying there is no requirement to fly to different airfields all the time to gain 50 hours cross country?

Sorry for the long post for could be most likely a simple answer.

[selfin]

For EASA licences the definition is in FCL.010 of Part-FCL (https://www.easa.europa.eu/regulations):

"Cross-country" means a flight between a point of departure and a point of arrival following a pre-planned route, using standard navigation procedures.

The aerodromes of departure and arrival may be the same unless the context requires otherwise.

... the minimum requirements before being allowed to start...

Distinction should be made between course commencement and application requirements.

If you intend to additionally obtain standard US or Canadian flight crew licences then be aware that they are based on more rigorous definitions.

[B2N2]

Can we really call it a cross country if you can see the other Airport from the pattern?

In FAA land:
PPL /IR/CPL at least 50nm w/landing.
ATP at least 50nm but no landing required.
Part 135 - Airport to Airport counts

Back on topic;
You need the XC time, might as well make it decent flights.

[selfin]

Can we really call it a cross country if you can see the other Airport from the pattern?

It is the legal definition which is considered for the experience requirements. Any pre-planned route followed by a standard navigation procedure is countable according to Part-FCL and UK ANO. The provision in US federal regulations is almost identical, save for disallowing A to A operations, for purposes such as 14 CFR 135.243.

In FAA land ... at least 50nm ... required.

For most aeronautical experience requirements 14 CFR 61 requires distances greater than 50 nm.

[+TSRA]

There is a legal answer (in EASA land there is apparently no minimum distance) and an intent answer. I'll speak to intent.

Why do you think we are required, during training for a license or rating, to complete a cross-country exercise?

Is it to fly to a bunch of places we can see to rack up the hours or is to learn valuable skills about in-flight navigation, airfield procedures, and aircraft performance (to name a few)?

You could fly from your airport to a point x number of miles away then back to your airport, but what have you learned? You've learned how to depart and arrive at your local field and how to turn around.

Hour building for a license is not supposed to be just adding digits in a book for someone to look over during a flight test. Its meant to give you the skills and experience to demonstrate that you have the requisite knowledge to hold the license in question.

When I was instructing, I always relished the "I got lost" conversation when my student(s) got back from a cross-country, because we could then talk about how they got "unlost" and build up their confidence. It might have cost the student an extra couple of bucks, but what they learned from the experience was priceless.

So my advise to you is go to an airport far enough away that you're pushing your boundaries, get "lost," learn some great skills.

[Ginger Ninja]

Thanks guys.

My fault for not making things clear. I don't mean it to come across as if I will avoid flying into other airfields. I have every intention of going to other airfields.

I was asking purely to clarify if I had to dedicate 50 hours of doing this.

Thanks for you help as always!