Salaries?

[Murdoch01]

Having been in the industry for many years, I still notice that there is a grey area when it comes to 'the Industry Standard' for Rotary Pilot Salaries. I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest here but trying to establish an evidence based standard for us and those that may be interested in a career in flying to refer to. I appreciate that market forces and economic influences have a part to play but I am respectfully asking you all to compile information on this thread that is evidenced based, anonymous and accurate such that we can all have an appreciation of our value and where the highs and lows are in our industry. This could depart into many deep discussions (which I embrace) but for the sake of this thread, please keep those to another post. Just the data for now. Nothing sinister intended in this thread - I'm just seeking some transparency which is always a good thing.
Fill in the gaps for 2018 rates (ensure it is evidenced or it means nothing);
Offshore FO
Offshore SFO (IR/non IR)
Offshore Capt
SAR FO/SFO (IR/non IR)
SAR Capt
Police Capt (IR/non IR)
HEMS Capt (IR/non IR)
Corporate FO/SFO (IR/non IR)
Corporate Capt
Power Distribution Capt (IR/non IR)
Windfarm Capt (IR/non IR)
TRI/TRE additional supplement
Test Capt (IR/non IR)
Corporate Capt
Sim Operator
AC Positioning Capt

It may have been done before (which I have not found with any significant detail but please direct me if I am wrong?) but lets get it refreshed for 2018.
Thank you.

[QTG]

Hands up all those who are going to amuse us by telling us how much they earn!

[helimo]

Onshore FO IR Freelance 250€ daily rate

[Sloppy Link]

UK Police salaries are public knowledge (unless TUPE'd over).

[Murdoch01]

I’m not asking for you to identify your own earnings. Just help us populate knowledge of salaries we do know. It could help a lot of people and safeguard our worth in a world that is trimming to the core.

[helimutt]

You won't find any offshore guys without an IR these days. Capt/SFO or FO.

Salaries range from around £60k for FO up to over £100k for senior offshore captains and more if they are TRI/E etc.


Onshore Corporate Captain, IR, Multi crew, £75k.

Certain organisations pay a lot more for an experienced Corporate Onshore Captain, these range from £85k-£100k+ and will include a pension, usually health benefits and sometimes a car allowance. The good ones that is. The bad ones will pay whatever they can get away with.

[Hot_LZ]

Offshore FO - £48-60k
Offshore SFO £65-80k
Offshore Capt £80-100k+

The above is same for SAR

LZ

[Impress to inflate]

Offshore FO.........Not Enough
Offshore SFO (IR/non IR).......Still not enough/Never heard of one.
Offshore Capt.......Getting there but still not close
SAR FO/SFO (IR/non IR).......See Above
SAR Capt........Far to little
Police Capt (IR/non IR)......To little/More would be nice
HEMS Capt (IR/non IR)......See Police Capt
Corporate FO/SFO (IR/non IR)......Almost there
Corporate Capt.......A tad shy but close
Power Distribution Capt (IR/non IR)........Electrifying close
Windfarm Capt (IR/non IR).......A smidge more needed
TRI/TRE additional supplement........A few more quid needed
Test Capt (IR/non IR).........Close but no cigar
Corporate Capt.........What ever he can get
Sim Operator........Far to much !
AC Positioning Capt.........HOW MUCH !

Sorry, couldn't help myself

[Murdoch01]

Offshore FO.........Not Enough
Offshore SFO (IR/non IR).......Still not enough/Never heard of one.
Offshore Capt.......Getting there but still not close
SAR FO/SFO (IR/non IR).......See Above
SAR Capt........Far to little
Police Capt (IR/non IR)......To little/More would be nice
HEMS Capt (IR/non IR)......See Police Capt
Corporate FO/SFO (IR/non IR)......Almost there
Corporate Capt.......A tad shy but close
Power Distribution Capt (IR/non IR)........Electrifying close
Windfarm Capt (IR/non IR).......A smidge more needed
TRI/TRE additional supplement........A few more quid needed
Test Capt (IR/non IR).........Close but no cigar
Corporate Capt.........What ever he can get
Sim Operator........Far to much !
AC Positioning Capt.........HOW MUCH !

Sorry, couldn't help myself

Ha, brill! I know that this is healthy cynicism and all of us will nod knowingly but are we paid fairly? Why are police and HEMS paid so badly for example. I have friends who do these roles and they fly a rostered FTL, in poor weather, require an IR, fly at night on NVIS, have unsociable hrs, land in hazardous unprepared sites and deal with sometimes very unpalatable subject matter.....And all by themselves? They carry the aviation responsibility squarely on their shoulders......

[Murdoch01]

Why are police and HEMS paid so badly? Isn’t it time for them to be recognised monetarily for the role they carry out? I have friends who do these jobs and they are Captains who fly high stakes missions, in very poor weather, require an IR, fly at night on NVIS, have unsociable hrs, land in hazardous unprepared sites and deal with sometimes very unpalatable subject matter.....? Single pilot as well. Although they do have part assistance from a crew member they carry the aviation responsibility squarely on their shoulders......all for the lowest salaries in the industry. Is this acceptable anymore?

[KATTAGORRIA]

Why are police and HEMS paid so badly? Isn’t it time for them to be recognised monetarily for the role they carry out? I have friends who do these jobs and they are Captains who fly high stakes missions, in very poor weather, require an IR, fly at night on NVIS, have unsociable hrs, land in hazardous unprepared sites and deal with sometimes very unpalatable subject matter.....? Single pilot as well. Although they do have part assistance from a crew member they carry the aviation responsibility squarely on their shoulders......all for the lowest salaries in the industry. Is this acceptable anymore?

I agree, and this situation happens all over Europe

[hihover]

Unfortunately Murdoch, the times we live in are changing. Big industry cares about safety and their shareholders....not sure which takes the priority.

The end-users are the Oil and Gas suppliers and their core industry - Oil and Gas - has been severely hit in recent years due to diminishing oil and gas prices. That means exploration budgets are cut, air transportation cuts, reviews of air transportation contracts etc etc. These all roll downhill to the air transportation personnel at the coalface.

Add to that, further decline due to a few serious and high-profile accidents, you then have an industry that is shedding its surplus personnel who still need to work. Quite rightly, they will take any reasonable job offer, and potential employers are aware of this because they get 40+ applicants for every job. There is no real need for Police and HEMS to pay big money for helicopter pilots with so many quality people to choose from.....As you said - market forces.

As sad as this is, we are no different to any other industry with a surplus of people (for whatever reason).

For those younger pilots with IRs, I would recommend the airlines. This is a growth industry. The helicopter industry as we knew it will take a long time to bounce back, if ever.

Nobody's fault, thats life. Good luck with your survey.

[Brutal]

hihover....40+ applicants for every job?? a) is that Qualified applicants? b) not where I work, not any more...
quote: "There is no real need for Police and HEMS to pay big money for helicopter pilots with so many quality people to choose from"
I would like to see proof of this? The first 12 c.v.'s across my desk this week went straight in the bin....certainly not qualified! Add to this the huge amount of retiree's starting to happen, (mainly ex-mil) that was predicted 12+ years ago, with less and less leaving/available, no one training to become helo pilots the last couple of years, anyone with any sense is off to the airlines, many pilots taking/taken early retirement and others just completely fed up with the rotary industry, it is starting to bite....Add to this the topic of this thread, the completely p*%s poor wages and disgraceful pensions offered by some, (one yellow HEMS unit offer 3%)?!?!?!??!???!?!?? then there will be a shortage of good guys and gals to choose from...this was the topic of a conference this week in London....
Are there Pilots out of work, Yes ! Are there 100's of qualified pilots out of work, definitely not!! However, all you will hear from employers is that they also have 40 qualified applicants for every job, that way the scaremongering keeps the wages and pensions low, which is exactly what they want!
They may be able to employ pilots, but not many stay for the long haul as no matter how good the job, eventually the pay/pensions are too low to retain pilots!
B.

[Brutal]

H.99 Read my post...I Stated QUALIFIED........

New CPL's are not...
Babcocks Requirements are NOT that high... Or do we give a 150 hr cpl a type rating on a 135/145 and let them fly single pilot in all sorts of weather?? I remember having a brand new CPL and couldn't get a job as I wasn't "qualified"
You need a certain amount of experience..and I get it, like all jobs, you can't get the job without experience, but how do you get it??
When companies start to feel the squeeze when all the "Qualified " pilots have dried up, (we are almost there)...then they will be forced to invest in training and type ratings...
Compared to a few years back, there is a drastic reduction in ex-mil guys leaving the forces and becoming available....
Companies will always try to save every penny, hence the situation on the N.Sea where Type ratings are king..you could have been loyal to a company for 20 years but then they lose a contract on that type you fly, and your service means nothing as the new guy with the type that they want will keep his/her job?? Hence why people are leaving the N.sea even if they are secure because they have seen how the operators treat people with utter contempt!
I sit in on senior meetings with management, they know there is a lack of Suitable qualified pilots and (although they would never admit it publicly), they are concerned...
B.

[megan]

If I had my time over I'd fly a jet for a private owner. Visitor (frequent) to local FBO day before Xmas gave the handler a $25K watch and pilot reported a $500K bonus. :ooh:500 PIC multi, HEMS experience, NVIS experience, 135/145 rated. Not many people around with thatThere are folks with 20K hours mutli that don't have the other quals asked for. Possible candidate?

[touring_pilot]

PNG Pilots get:

a sack of peanuts
no health benefits - apart from the runs
no super
crap airlines

[hihover]

Brutal - I hear what you are saying but the term "Qualified" is only a starting point in many cases. You advertise for the pilot you would choose in an ideal world, however, if they don't exist or are not interested then you have two options - either widen the door or increase the salary/package.

I need 139 pilots at the moment (thats AW 139, not one hundred and thirty-nine pilots), but we require a very special set of skills and few meet the requirements. I am often in a position of having to trade skills and experience in order to get close to the right man.

[Nescafe]

I need 139 pilots at the moment

I hope you’re ready for an influx of PMs, from 130hrs R22 guys and upwards!

[Murdoch01]

This has been an interesting exercise. It seems that there are some pilots not getting anywhere near their worth and some doing okay (FOs paid the same as Capt in a different sector). This example was one of the reasons I commenced this thread. It is my belief that there should exist an Industry minimum for certain positions in the aircraft. Any amount above that minimum would be a weighting for time served, ad-quals, hostile environment, unsociable hrs, critical nature of role etc.......so why are we not at our Union doors asking for some perfectly reasonable parity? I believe the industry as a whole would benefit as companies would engender loyalty, would suffer less turn over and constant training/re-qual costs and the pilot would know where he stood and have a predictable pay spine upon which to aspire.
Companies are trying to get more for less - it is the way of it. But you pay peanuts, you get monkeys (eventually) and that means higher costs to train to standard at the end of the day. You may as well pay the experienced pilots the right amount in the first place. Notice, I'm not saying we all need a pay rise. I'm saying we need parity in the industry so we cannot fall fowl of the scaremongering that companies invoke. Which is a dreadful untruth. There are not ques of pilots behind me. It is a massive and expensive faff to re-employ and train a new pilot.........pilots are still a rare and valuable asset - actually, a completely unique and essential part of a lot of multi million £/$ industries. If we were not there, the industries would cease to function!
So how do we change it? Strike, go to the Unions? Suggestions please?
Oh, and I haven't even commented on the weight of responsibility that we hold. People's lives in our hands and the multi million pound machinery. Other sectors with that kind of burden get paid appropriately (perhaps? Another discussion?). Doctors, airline pilots, train drivers, dentists etc

[Medevac999]

Brutal - I hear what you are saying but the term "Qualified" is only a starting point in many cases. You advertise for the pilot you would choose in an ideal world, however, if they don't exist or are not interested then you have two options - either widen the door or increase the salary/package.

I need 139 pilots at the moment (thats AW 139, not one hundred and thirty-nine pilots), but we require a very special set of skills and few meet the requirements. I am often in a position of having to trade skills and experience in order to get close to the right man.

Rotational or residential?

[helimutt]

Brutal - I hear what you are saying but the term "Qualified" is only a starting point in many cases. You advertise for the pilot you would choose in an ideal world, however, if they don't exist or are not interested then you have two options - either widen the door or increase the salary/package.

I need 139 pilots at the moment (thats AW 139, not one hundred and thirty-nine pilots), but we require a very special set of skills and few meet the requirements. I am often in a position of having to trade skills and experience in order to get close to the right man.

So basically you're one of the employers who believe that only a type rated person will do because you don't wish to invest in the right candidate? I've lost count of the amount of times ive seen this. Come with the type rating and you can have a job. It's like Pay2Fly in places like Ryanair. I'll just go do a £50k type rating for the slim chance of a job which pays less than that per year, and be loyal to the company. If helicopter companies wished to invest in people (they don't) they should factor in the cost of these type ratings into the costs of the job. It'll never happen though. :ugh:

[GoodGrief]

It was different in the 90's.
Friend of mine was given instrument and 332 ratings.
I came on line about 15 months later and they had stopped that practice.:{

[RVDT]

Why are police and HEMS paid so badly? Isn’t it time for them to be recognised monetarily
for the role they carry out? I have friends who do these jobs and they are Captains who fly high stakes
missions, in very poor weather, require an IR, fly at night on NVIS, have unsociable hrs, land in hazardous
unprepared sites and deal with sometimes very unpalatable subject matter.....? Single pilot as well.
Although they do have part assistance from a crew member they carry the aviation responsibility squarely
on their shoulders......all for the lowest salaries in the industry. Is this acceptable anymore?

No, but there are plenty of people with multi-thousand hours of IR experience who can't even get a sniff of a HEMS interview as:

a) there are not ex-mil,

I was always of the opinion possibly unfounded that the these guys supplemented their meagre stipe with an ex-mil pension? Could be wrong.

Plus - what else are they going to do with their particular skill set?

P.S. VIP - ATPL (non IR) Light Twin EC Type - B1.3 on type - EUR 140K fully found - equal time - global ops.

[hihover]

Mutt, you seem to have gone off at a tangent here, I don't know of any helicopter operators offering a Ryanair type of package.

So basically you're one of the employers who believe that only a type rated person will do because you don't wish to invest in the right candidate? I've lost count of the amount of times ive seen this.

You can't be thinking this through before you bash your thoughts into the keyboard, why would anyone pay to train (type rating) an unknown pilot when there are qualified pilots (with operational experience on type) out there? Don't compare this to Ryanair, its a different business model. I am not surprised you have lost count.

The days of being offered a job because you have a type rating and a pulse are over.

The industry is in turmoil but I have no doubt it will settle down. The problem with the helicopter industry is that we seem unable to forecast with any certainty what the industry will be like next year. With that in mind, do you really expect an employer, who does not know you, to invest 50k to see if you're a good fit??

Good luck with that!!

[helimutt]

The days of being offered a job because you have a type rating and a pulse are over.

The industry is in turmoil but I have no doubt it will settle down. The problem with the helicopter industry is that we seem unable to forecast with any certainty what the industry will be like next year. With that in mind, do you really expect an employer, who does not know you, to invest 50k to see if you're a good fit??

Good luck with that!!


Well the companies can continue in the system they have, whereby they only employ a 'ready to go, type rated, known quantity' and good luck to them. Pilots are becoming wise to the bigger companies nowadays. They know there is no loyalty to a company anymore. You only have to look at most of the offshore NS companies and the way they treated people over the last 6-7 years. I always said I would never ever pay for another type rating to get a job again. Yes thats my prerogative and if it means I get a job in the local supermarket instead of flying then so be it. My days of funding my flying are over. It won't surprise me to see young pilots paying to fly in the near future. (just like the ryanair model). Good luck to them but see where it gets them when they're complaining about sh*t wages down the line. Hey maybe i'm wrong and it'll all be jobs and type ratings for all in the next few years. Somehow i doubt it having been in this game for 20+ years.

[helicrazi]

I would not bank on it. Unless the oil price doubles. And that's unlikely.

Oil price is irrelevant to this. Irrelevant in the sense it doesn't need to increase, it's just fine where it is.

[MightyGem]

I was always of the opinion possibly unfounded that the these guys supplemented their meagre stipe with an ex-mil pension?
The ex Mil guys possibly did, if they had left at a point in their Military service when they were entitled to draw a pension immediately. However, the pilots that hadn't served with the Military, and there were a few, couldn't.

[Sloppy Link]

The ex Mil guys possibly did, if they had left at a point in their Military service when they were entitled to draw a pension immediately. However, the pilots that hadn't served with the Military, and there were a few, couldn't.

Due the drawdown of the military in the wake if an outbreak of peace and the military keeping hold of their pilots for longer (especially the AAC who no longer "retire" NCOs at their 22 year point), the amount of non-military pilots in the Police/HEMS world is now on the up......will salaries change? I doubt it.

[clear to land]

Ex-military Helo now a B777 TRE in the sandpit. $USD21k (inc accomodation) per month plus school fees paid and another 2.3k into Provident. No its nowhere near as much fun but I push a button and someone actually brings me a coffee when I ask. It provides a far better life for my family than staying in helo's ever would but I still miss it (last rotary PIC 1998 so 20yrs now!!!)

[Jeffory]

If you have the means to, change over to fixed wing post haste. You can fly helicopters for fun when you are earning good money at an airline. Helicopter industry is an absolute joke unless you are already at the top of town.

[megan]

I believe the industry as a whole would benefit as companies would engender loyalty, would suffer less turn over and constant training/re-qual costsScene, oil company conference room, assembled, pilots of oil company owned and operated operation and oil company executive whose aviation knowledge was zip. Statement, "We don't give a f$#%^ about you people. You've got it too good". Reason, stable work force, no turn over. Bye the way, the statement is word for word.

[Flying Bull]

Scene, oil company conference room, assembled, pilots of oil company owned and operated operation and oil company executive whose aviation knowledge was zip. Statement, "We don't give a f$#%^ about you people. You've got it too good". Reason, stable work force, no turn over. Bye the way, the statement is word for word.

For the ones capable of german
https://youtu.be/tpUB3LvM4Jo
1% of mankind are psychos, no empathy- but they can hide it in public...
In management top positions you find 14ish % of them.....
So quite possibly the statement was from one of them....