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atakacs
7th Feb 2018, 10:06
Ok i might get some flack for this but am I the only one to find the Starman shots too good to be true?
Does anyone have technical details as if how these videos are shot and transmited to earth?
Also am I to understand that the 3rd stage has relit capabilities? Or do they have attached orbital manoeuvring engines?

Nige321
7th Feb 2018, 10:12
am I the only one to find the Starman shots too good to be true?
Probably, yes.

Does anyone have technical details as if how these videos are shot and transmited to earth?
Just Google it, all the info is out there.
The car has a tubular rig around it with cameras on...
http://a57.foxnews.com/images.foxnews.com/content/fox-news/auto/2018/02/06/starman-set-to-take-ride-into-outer-space-in-tesla-roadster/_jcr_content/par/featured_image/media-0.img.jpg/931/524/1517836049958.jpg?ve=1&tl=1&text=big-top-image

ORAC
7th Feb 2018, 10:21
You’ll know it’s real when you see the speeding ticket appear on the windscreen...

p.s.. Apparently there is a folded towel in the glove box. Just in case the Vogon fleet turns up....

charliegolf
7th Feb 2018, 11:36
Does The Stig know it's a one-way trip!

CG

artschool
7th Feb 2018, 11:46
how do we know the space suit is empty?

maybe this is all just an elaborate ruse to get rid of his arch nemesis?

atakacs
7th Feb 2018, 12:00
Just Google it, all the info is out there.
The car has a tubular rig around it with cameras on...
Well I have seen that (and other similar articles) but they are short on actual technical details...
How did they manage the sun orbit insertion burn? Musk is mentioning 3rd stage burn so it means it has multiple burns capabilities?
What about attitude control? From the images we have to belive it is fully 3 axis controlled.
Some tech specs for the camera / lens would be interesting. To be honest I'm surprised that we see so much of earth in the shot... And I'm sure the weather systems are consistent...
I'm not saying it did not happen but it is hard to independly corroborate. And quite frankly I wouldn't put it past EM to actually stage it. In any case if they did what they claim they did it was a massive engineering effort, not a last minute afterthought.

TWT
7th Feb 2018, 12:44
atakacs, I can't help you with the technical details of how SpaceX are doing the live video transmissions from the Roadster. I'd expect it to be confidential at this stage.

I can help you though with how it was done on the Apollo program in the 60's on the Apollo program. Enough here to keep you busy.

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/ApolloTV-Acrobat7.pdf

Technology has progressed somewhat in the last 50 years so I'm not surprised at all by the Roadster live pics. And SpaceX has a big budget :)

Nige321
7th Feb 2018, 13:28
I'm not saying it did not happen but it is hard to independly corroborate. And quite frankly I wouldn't put it past EM to actually stage it. In any case if they did what they claim they did it was a massive engineering effort, not a last minute afterthought.

Oh please...
Why would he stage anything??

What's the 'last minute afterthought'...??

clareprop
7th Feb 2018, 13:39
Ok i might get some flack for this but am I the only one to find the Starman shots too good to be true?

I genuinely want to try to find out where you are coming from but I don't want to misunderstand you.

Are you suggesting that this is all fakery?

wiggy
7th Feb 2018, 14:09
I genuinely want to try to find out where you are coming from but I don't want to misunderstand you.

Are you suggesting that this is all fakery?

One upon a time there would have been no pictures...sorry, images, and the conspiracy theorists would have been saying “OK, if Musk really put a car in space where are the pictures”?

Nowadays they say “ OK, I see the pictures but did Musk really put a car in space”...

I think Buzz Aldrin had a description for such people.....

chevvron
7th Feb 2018, 15:23
One upon a time there would have been no pictures...sorry, images, and the conspiracy theorists would have been saying “OK, if Musk really put a car in space where are the pictures”?

Nowadays they say “ OK, I see the pictures but did Musk really put a car in space”...

I think Buzz Aldrin had a description for such people.....

He's put a car in space, now let's see him put a London Bus on the Moon.

WhatsaLizad?
7th Feb 2018, 20:34
atakacs,

Did the round spherical earth in the background fill you with self doubt and lead you down the path of insecurity?

vapilot2004
7th Feb 2018, 20:37
If they can put a Tesla in space, why can't they...

Checkboard
7th Feb 2018, 20:46
How did they manage the sun orbit insertion burn? Musk is mentioning 3rd stage burn so it means it has multiple burns capabilities?
What about attitude control? From the images we have to belive it is fully 3 axis controlled.
Yes - it will move through the Van Allen Belts, and accept the radiation hit from that, then burn to stabilize a solar orbit. This will prove that the electronics can survive the environment.

If radiation doesn't zap the electronics of the upper-stage rocket, its engines will fire up, accelerate Musk's Roadster to about 24,600 miles per hours, and inject it into orbit that will loop indefinitely between Earth and Mars.
https://www.sciencealert.com/spacex-falcon-heavy-launch-success-elon-musk-tesla-roadster-mars

G-CPTN
7th Feb 2018, 21:53
Was there any payload apart from the car?

farsouth
7th Feb 2018, 22:32
Was there any payload apart from the car?

No - this was the first test of a new launch system. Elon Musk publicly gave it only a 50/50 chance of success, and said he would be happy if it didn't blow up and damage the launch pad (I suspect he was a little more confident than that, but better not to raise expectations).
So they would not want to risk an expensive payload and would normally put in a dummy load to simulate the mass of a proper payload. In this case, the "dummy" was sitting in a Tesla!

stagger
7th Feb 2018, 22:50
The way the booster rockets returned to land at Cape Canaveral was absolutely astonishing - and really did look like the start of a new era in space exploration.

But I thought the whole Tesla + Starman sideshow was unnecessary and not particularly impressive. We've been bunging large objects into orbit space for decades. Added nothing to the amazing feat of landing the boosters.

G-CPTN
7th Feb 2018, 22:55
But I thought the whole Tesla + Starman sideshow was unnecessary and not particularly impressive. We've been bunging large objects into orbit space for decades. Added nothing to the amazing feat of landing the boosters.

Showmanship - worthwhile publicity (and at no cost to the punters).

TURIN
7th Feb 2018, 23:40
The way the booster rockets returned to land at Cape Canaveral was absolutely astonishing - and really did look like the start of a new era in space exploration.

But I thought the whole Tesla + Starman sideshow was unnecessary and not particularly impressive. We've been bunging large objects into orbit space for decades. Added nothing to the amazing feat of landing the boosters.

Absolutely. The TV news I saw concentrated on the quirky car in space/Bowie nonsense. Great publicity, but the technical feat of bringing those boosters back seemd totally lost on them.

I keep watching and I'm still astonished!:ok:

India Four Two
7th Feb 2018, 23:59
I was astonished too. The boosters landed at the same time as far as I could tell!

The Starman/Tesla Roadster was of course, great PR. I bet the price of used Roadsters has gone up!

A friend of mine did wonder if anybody had seen Elon’s ex-girlfriend since Starman was launched ! :E

Ascend Charlie
8th Feb 2018, 00:32
Need one helluva long extension cord to recharge it...

jolihokistix
8th Feb 2018, 00:42
If they could erect a Concord at the entrance to Heathrow, then he has just placed a Tesla hoarding somewhat higher.


If space is full of random rocks, then one sleek red sports car will surely be of special interest to scientists of the future.

Jetex_Jim
8th Feb 2018, 04:28
https://www.instagram.com/p/Be6VZEzgAEk/

atakacs
8th Feb 2018, 06:15
atakacs,

Did the round spherical earth in the background fill you with self doubt and lead you down the path of insecurity?

;)

Well in a previous life (late 90's) I actually worked as a payload specialist for telecom satellites. Although I was not directly involved in the launch and post launch operations I spent quite some time discussing those matters with colleagues. All I can say it is not trivial to send anything in a precise place in space, to have it 3-axis stabilized and to feed live video from it. Absolutely possible and within current technology available to a private venture but not something you would do casually. There has been a lot of engineering (read $$) put into this.

And, sorry to repeat myself, some of the pictures are just too good to be true (even the launch control feed had SpaceX people saying "it really looks like CGI"). I mean this last picture with the moon as background... really ? I would be most interested to see where the payload was supposed to be 12h ago and the tracking data.

Anyway, hat's off for the Falcon Heavy launch success and the amazing PR move. But still having my doubts about the video..

SMT Member
8th Feb 2018, 07:04
The usual payload for a first flight of a new rocket, is a block of concrete. Which, I'm sure you agree - and Elon Musk certainly did - is boring as [email protected] The idea of launching his old car into space, complete with hints to 'Hitchhikers' and David Bowie on the stereo was inspired, and is certain to inspire a number of kids too. If this 'stunt' mean more kids will go down the path of rocket science, then I'd say it's worth every penny.

http://i67.tinypic.com/wgqart.jpg

ChrisJ800
8th Feb 2018, 07:15
DJI drones for <$1000 come with digital video transmitters that can transmit 5 miles. A more powerful transmitter and much bigger and better antennas and Im sure you could transmit digital video from Space.

Katamarino
8th Feb 2018, 08:48
There's always some nut looking for the conspiracy theory!

ORAC
8th Feb 2018, 08:55
All photos taken in earth orbit before final transfer orbit burn - and the orbit and camera positions no doubt very carefully planned to provide the required Earth/moon background shits. Cameras turned off after final burn.

vapilot2004
8th Feb 2018, 10:00
But I thought the whole Tesla + Starman sideshow was unnecessary and not particularly impressive. We've been bunging large objects into orbit space for decades. Added nothing to the amazing feat of landing the boosters.

I too thought it a bit of a silly stunt, although I do admire Musk. Then I realized when that thing is parked in an orbit, that's the intention, well, they will have proven their ability to send men and machines to Mars, or as it turns out, well beyond.

If space is full of random rocks, then one sleek red sports car will surely be of special interest to scientists of the future.


"A symbolic god of a hydrocarbon culture that died out five hundred years before", read one hypothesis.

Hokulea
8th Feb 2018, 11:36
And, sorry to repeat myself, some of the pictures are just too good to be true (even the launch control feed had SpaceX people saying "it really looks like CGI"). I mean this last picture with the moon as background... really ? I would be most interested to see where the payload was supposed to be 12h ago and the tracking data.

That was the Earth in the background, not the moon.

atakacs
8th Feb 2018, 13:11
:D Haha, Brilliant.

Well if it was an overexposed earth I really wonder how they took that picture in LEO (as we are told that all imagery was done there). There is absolutely no way you can have a full shot of the earth - the whole background would be covered, no matter what lens is used.
Anyway apparently there is no space for this discussion here so let's close this thread.

wiggy
8th Feb 2018, 13:46
Well if it was an overexposed earth I really wonder how they took that picture in LEO (as we are told that all imagery was done there). There is absolutely no way you can have a full shot of the earth - the whole background would be covered, no matter what lens is used.
Anyway apparently there is no space for this discussion here so let's close this thread.

Well unless we know for certain the timing of all the imagery it is difficult to say whether those images were taken from the initial LEO or from near the 20000 km’ish apogee of one of the eccentric orbits it transferred into before the final “transfer” into the heliocentric orbit.

As for the 3-axis stabilisation you have mentioned a few times I got the impression from looking at imagery available on line at the time (not the selected pretty stuff the mainstream media has generally shown ) that the package was actually slowly tumbling......most of the time the background was black, with at times either the Moon or Earth coming into view.

FakePilot
8th Feb 2018, 14:11
Wait, this is real? I thought it was. Oh my. What about all the plastics and tires and stuff? Was the car prepped? How will paint survive?

G-CPTN
8th Feb 2018, 14:13
What reason has been given for missing the original target?

SARF
8th Feb 2018, 15:04
It moved......

MG23
8th Feb 2018, 16:51
What reason has been given for missing the original target?

There was no 'original target' except to go out as far as Mars. I believe they just burned the second stage until it was empty(*), rather than putting it on any specific trajectory.

Part of the purpose of the flight was to prove that the second stage could restart after several hours in space, so it can be used for delivering satellites directly to geosynchronous orbit in future, rather than requiring the satellite to have its own rocket for the final orbital insertion. So they probably also wanted to prove it could run until the tanks were empty after several hours in space.

(*) Or, technically speaking, until the fuel level was so low the engines had to shut down in order to not explode.

MG23
8th Feb 2018, 16:58
All I can say it is not trivial to send anything in a precise place in space, to have it 3-axis stabilized and to feed live video from it.

The second stage already has cameras on board to feed engineering video back to the ground (e.g. the videos of the engine operating and the interior of the fuel tanks). And it already has attitude control for putting satellites into orbit: during the initial launch, it uses thrust vectoring of the main engine, but if often has to make multiple burns in orbit, which requires the ability to point the stage in the correct direction for the burn before that engine starts up.

So they didn't really have to do much other than attaching the extra cameras to whatever hardware is used to send video to the ground.

I must admit, the lighting did sometimes seem weird in some of the images, but that's often the case with images from space, because the lighting is so different to what we're used to on Earth.

G-CPTN
8th Feb 2018, 17:02
Is the car still attached to the rocket? - or is it cruising free?

MG23
8th Feb 2018, 17:04
Someone from SpaceX said they were intending to separate it from the rocket after the final burn, but I don't remember seeing any confirmation that it had happened, or whether that was even still the plan by the time they launched it.

G-CPTN
8th Feb 2018, 17:10
I believe it has been stated that the car will orbit in perpetuity.
Presumably the rocket will, too?

MG23
8th Feb 2018, 17:23
Yes. If the car does separate, they'll just be flying on very slightly different orbits (though that will ensure they end up a very long way apart in the future).

G-CPTN
8th Feb 2018, 17:38
Yes. If the car does separate, they'll just be flying on very slightly different orbits (though that will ensure they end up a very long way apart in the future).

Why? no air effect and momentum conservation.

Does gravity affect different masses differently in space?

MG23
8th Feb 2018, 17:44
Why? no air effect and momentum conservation.

There'll be a slight difference in velocity if they separate. Even 1cm/second adds up over the years.

And, yes, kind of: the further apart they get, the more the gravitational effects will differ.

ORAC
8th Feb 2018, 18:37
Fore and aft photos at #23 and #25, show no attached orbital insertion motor.

wiggy
8th Feb 2018, 18:42
Fore and aft photos at #23 and #25, show no attached orbital insertion motor.
Given the way the car was mounted atop the final stage and the positioning of those cameras I’m not sure you would expect to see any part of the launcher structure (if it was still attached) in those Images.

There are pictures around of the car atop the launcher before it was hidden by the shroud..see nige321’s earlier post and this article.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/5/16973212/elon-musk-tesla-roadster-starman-spacesuit-falcon-heavy-spacex

MarcK
9th Feb 2018, 06:41
Wait, this is real? I thought it was. Oh my. What about all the plastics and tires and stuff? Was the car prepped? How will paint survive?Tesla roadster for sale. Cheap. Buyer to come get car.

wiggy
9th Feb 2018, 08:26
From today's "Spaceweather" website:


AMATEUR ASTRONOMERS PHOTOGRAPH ROADSTER IN SPACE: It's official. Elon Musk's cherry red Tesla Roadster is a spacecraft. NASA is now listing the electric car in its database of celestial objects with an ephemeris for tracking it available on JPL's Horizons web site.

Using that ephemeris, along with a remote-controlled telescope in Siding Spring, Australia, amateur astronomer Adriano Valvasori photographed the Roadster on Feb. 8th.


At the time, the car was 493,000 km (306,000) away, not far beyond the orbit of the Moon, receding from Earth about 3.7 km/s (8,300 mph). Reflecting sunlight, it shone about as brightly as a 16th magnitude star.

Another amateur astronomer, Raymond Kneip, photographed the Roadster about 3 hours before Valvasori did.



"It's the craziest thing I've ever captured with a telescope," he says. Like Valvasori, Kneip used an iTelescope at the Siding Spring Observatory to photograph the hurtling Tesla.
NASA designates the spacecraft "Tesla Roadster" with two aliases: "Starman" and "2018-017A," described in the ephemeris as follows:

"Dummy payload from the first launch of SpaceX Falcon Heavy launch vehicle [on Feb. 6, 2018]. Consists of a standard Tesla Roadster automobile and a spacesuit-wearing mannequin nicknamed "Starman". Also includes a Hot Wheels toy model Roadster on the car's dash with a mini-Starman inside. A data storage device placed inside the car contains a copy of Isaac Asimov's "Foundation" novels. A plaque on the attachment fitting between the Falcon Heavy upper stage and the Tesla is etched with the names of more than 6,000 SpaceX employees."

--------------------------------------------------

SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids (http://spaceweather.com/)

vapilot2004
9th Feb 2018, 08:55
Thank you Wiggy.

Tesla roadster for sale. Cheap. Buyer to come get car.

Buyer to assume transportation costs home.

G-CPTN
9th Feb 2018, 10:48
Buyer to assume transportation costs home.

Don't you just wait until it comes around in a million years?

Hokulea
9th Feb 2018, 12:36
(*) Or, technically speaking, until the fuel level was so low the engines had to shut down in order to not explode.

MG23 - not a rocket engine expert myself, but why would the engines explode if they ran out of fuel? Just curious.

MG23
9th Feb 2018, 16:36
MG23 - not a rocket engine expert myself, but why would the engines explode if they ran out of fuel? Just curious.

The turbo-pumps don't like pumping air. They're not guaranteed to explode, but they tend to massively over-speed and tear themselves apart.

vapilot2004
9th Feb 2018, 21:08
Don't you just wait until it comes around in a million years?

:D

Never driven one, but owners say Teslas are well worth the wait.

MG23
9th Feb 2018, 21:13
Never driven one, but owners say Teslas are well worth the wait.

If the video I watched a while back on Youtube is anything to go by, they probably do a lot of waiting for their Tesla to come back from the nearest service centre :).

TEEEJ
9th Feb 2018, 21:52
Headphones on!

Launch from 3:15

Boosters return from 6:05

Sonic booms 6:46

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImoQqNyRL8Y