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troppo
7th Feb 2018, 08:20
https://i.stuff.co.nz/science/101242841/facial-reconstruction-show-the-first-britons-were-black-and-their-dna-lives-on-in-most-of-us

Good morning England, chew slowly :E :}

papajuliet
7th Feb 2018, 08:37
Probably because they spent most of their time outdoors.

G-CPTN
7th Feb 2018, 08:39
Coalminers . . .

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2012/07/13/qs77hres-jpeg-38dc73513b4af91768efe43056fb0a5d5232f36d-s6-c30.jpg

MOSTAFA
7th Feb 2018, 08:45
Are these the same idiots who convince children that dinosaurs were all sorts of bright colours? There is not a single scrap of evidence, we have zero proof only furtive imagination.

jolihokistix
7th Feb 2018, 08:51
The first Britains were blue.

Hydromet
7th Feb 2018, 08:55
There is not a single scrap of evidence,
Read the article. There is DNA evidence. Whether that's proof or not I can't say from that article, but you can't claim that there's no evidence just because you can't understand it or choose not to believe it.

Krystal n chips
7th Feb 2018, 08:55
https://i.stuff.co.nz/science/101242841/facial-reconstruction-show-the-first-britons-were-black-and-their-dna-lives-on-in-most-of-us

Good morning England, chew slowly :E :}

:D:D ...Lets think....they arrived about 10000 years ago, so, erm, must have crossed by sea.....thus we await suitable condemnation from the Mail / Excess...and Farage.....about how we should have "taken control of our borders ! " 10000 years ago .... 10000 years is tenuous enough to be considered accurate for the Mail after all .

On the other hand, it's not beyond the realms of possibility to envisage Mail readers / UKiP members, dashing out to buy magnifying glasses to minutely examine their bodies for any remaining traces of pigmentation.

Bob Viking
7th Feb 2018, 09:00
I realise I’m about to start a slagging match that I am unlikely to contribute to any further but why do people assume that Daily Mail readers and UKIP voters (I am neither by the way, I just accept that people are entitled to hold different opinions) are racist?

It’s possible that many of them are racist, but by tarring them all with the same brush you are no better than you deem them to be.

Is that irony?

BV

Oh and, by the way, a few thousand years before Cheddar Man we were covered in fur and walked on all fours.

Turning this into a conversation about race is a little specious in my opinion.

Pontius Navigator
7th Feb 2018, 09:31
Far beit from me to question our omnipresent expert, but why would our ancestors have come by sea?

ORAC
7th Feb 2018, 09:37
Lets think....they arrived about 10000 years ago, so, erm, must have crossed by sea No sea at the time, so he was a continental.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland

Undoubtedly was also not a permanent settler due to dietary reasons. The permanent settlement of Northern Europe and Scandinavia took place about 13000 years ago, probably shortly before the sea rises made Doggerland vanish beneath the waves, in main part because of a genetic mutation somewhere in the Balkan region which extended lactose tolerance into adulthood and allowing nomadic tribes to survive in the colder regions drinking cow/reindeer milk and eating dairy products - and almost exclusively at the time amongst Caucasian tribes. It has spread further since, but is still far rarer.

https://www.nature.com/news/archaeology-the-milk-revolution-1.13471

https://www.nature.com/polopoly_fs/7.11661.1375182095!/image/lactase-hotspots2.jpg_gen/derivatives/fullsize/lactase-hotspots2.jpg

Krystal n chips
7th Feb 2018, 09:40
Far beit from me to question our omnipresent expert, but why would our ancestors have come by sea?

Well... it's like this.....

Huge ice age river carved the English Channel | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/huge-ice-age-river-carved-the-english-channel-1831107.html)

As far as I'm aware, there was no tunnel 10000 years ago, lumps of metal flying through the air hadn't yet been invented, it's a long way to swim, which leaves, erm, crossing by sea and boat perhaps ?

Of course, maybe they had mastered telekinesis in those distant days...which would explain everything !

Bergerie1
7th Feb 2018, 09:50
Fascinating to see so clearly evolution at work!

PDR1
7th Feb 2018, 09:55
I realise I’m about to start a slagging match that I am unlikely to contribute to any further but why do people assume that Daily Mail readers and UKIP voters (I am neither by the way, I just accept that people are entitled to hold different opinions) are racist?


It saves time.

PDR

sitigeltfel
7th Feb 2018, 10:39
Apart from playing early Lego with big stones, nothing of consequence happened until the Romans arrived.

Ancient Observer
7th Feb 2018, 11:39
..........but what did the Romans do for us?

denachtenmai
7th Feb 2018, 12:24
Proof that even early man wanted out of Europe 10,000 years ago:E

troppo
7th Feb 2018, 12:37
..........but what did the Romans do for us?

Made Scottish lasses with red hair, freckles and pearly whites

Mariner9
7th Feb 2018, 12:55
If the first Britons were Essex girls, I suspect it was fake tan

Snyggapa
7th Feb 2018, 14:14
Well... it's like this.....

Huge ice age river carved the English Channel | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/huge-ice-age-river-carved-the-english-channel-1831107.html)

As far as I'm aware, there was no tunnel 10000 years ago, lumps of metal flying through the air hadn't yet been invented, it's a long way to swim, which leaves, erm, crossing by sea and boat perhaps ?

Of course, maybe they had mastered telekinesis in those distant days...which would explain everything !

Or you could read the article further to the point of

"When sea levels rose during the warm period between ice ages, the channel filled with water and Britain became an island. There have been five ice ages in the past 500,000 years, with the last one ending about 9,000 years ago – the last time Britain was connected to mainland Europe and animals and people could cross easily."

And conclude that 10,000 years ago they simply walked across?

keith williams
7th Feb 2018, 14:39
No matter how much evidence is found, it is not correct to say that these people were black.

The appropriate term is People Of Colour. I have heard Barryo Barma use that term, so it must be correct.

Now stop being Daily Mail reading racists.

Thomas coupling
7th Feb 2018, 14:55
Next month we'll find another set of remains which pre dates these bones by another 100,000 years. No doubt they will be a colour before colour was invented?

[PS: Black isn't a colour].

G-CPTN
7th Feb 2018, 15:01
Happisburgh footprints (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happisburgh_footprints).

MG23
7th Feb 2018, 15:52
You don't say. It's almost like they came there from Africa or something.

G-CPTN
7th Feb 2018, 16:03
You don't say. It's almost like they came there from Africa or something.

With blue eyes?

Pontius Navigator
7th Feb 2018, 16:31
Oh dear, our resident expert wrong.

Simplythebeast
7th Feb 2018, 16:34
Read the article. There is DNA evidence. Whether that's proof or not I can't say from that article, but you can't claim that there's no evidence just because you can't understand it or choose not to believe it.

That would seem to be DNA evidence from one body....does that one body represent the population of Britain at that time? Do we know where that body actually originated or how it got where it did?

MG23
7th Feb 2018, 17:27
With blue eyes?

It's not like they just got on a 747 and flew there overnight. I'm not sure of the current status of historical research, but I gather the trip took thousands of years and many generations. It wouldn't be surprising to see genetic mutations happen along the way.

ORAC
7th Feb 2018, 17:33
Much more reliable to backtrack the DNA of the present population rather than rely on a single sample without knowing how they for there, as a slave perhaps or a trader. Welcome to the history of the Yamnaya - dark skinned and blue eyed - but how it was their pale skinned and lactose tolerant descendants who mainly populated Europe after genetic mutations kicked in to adapt them to the climate*

Ancient DNA reveals how Europeans developed light skin and lactose tolerance (http://theconversation.com/ancient-dna-reveals-how-europeans-developed-light-skin-and-lactose-tolerance-43078)

Who do you think you really are? A genetic map of the British Isles | University of Oxford (http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles)

*Our DNA was thought to be full of junk, but actually it’s a preserved database of genetic options which can be activated by RNA in reaction to environmental stress and preserved over millions of years.....

Highway1
7th Feb 2018, 18:14
It's not like they just got on a 747 and flew there overnight. I'm not sure of the current status of historical research, but I gather the trip took thousands of years and many generations. It wouldn't be surprising to see genetic mutations happen along the way.

I know nothing about genetics but why would eye color change? - are blue eyes better at seeing in the dark and gloom of Northern Europe?

MOSTAFA
7th Feb 2018, 18:22
Simply, I truly couldn't be bothered to answer hydromit - I did read his article and noticed it was backed up by the Gronian must be true!!

EGLD
7th Feb 2018, 18:28
I realise I’m about to start a slagging match that I am unlikely to contribute to any further but why do people assume that Daily Mail readers and UKIP voters are racist?

It makes them feel good about themselves :ok:

We should let them carry on as Leftys get a bit "punchy" when they're in a bad mood :uhoh:

MG23
7th Feb 2018, 18:49
I know nothing about genetics but why would eye color change? - are blue eyes better at seeing in the dark and gloom of Northern Europe?

If I remember correctly, blue eyes are a recessive gene, so people with non-blue eyes could still carry the blue eye gene. If the group that moved here happened to have an excess of blue eye genes, it's certainly conceivable that, over time, they could end up being dominant in that group.

MG23
7th Feb 2018, 18:50
I realise I’m about to start a slagging match that I am unlikely to contribute to any further but why do people assume that Daily Mail readers and UKIP voters (I am neither by the way, I just accept that people are entitled to hold different opinions) are racist?

SJWs always project.

Dan Dare
7th Feb 2018, 19:08
I’m not what you would class as a “super recogniser”, but isn’t Cheddar Man an overtanned look-alike of Helen Lederer?

Wouldn’t it have been unfortunate in Cheddar to be genetically lactose intolerant?

Chronus
7th Feb 2018, 19:45
If that was the first, why don`t they tell us what the last specimen will look like.

Sallyann1234
7th Feb 2018, 20:24
After reading 35 posts, I'm still none the wiser as to why it matters what colour the first Britons were. :ugh:

Lonewolf_50
7th Feb 2018, 21:29
This is doubtless related to the true origins of the Black Irish. :E


The definition of black Irish is used to describe Irish people with dark hair and dark eyes thought to be decedents of the Spanish Armada of the mid-1500s,

treadigraph
7th Feb 2018, 21:43
The first Britons were a miserable bunch until somebody said "lighten up will ya..."

ex_matelot
7th Feb 2018, 23:34
Great comment read elsewhere:

"I see border controls were slack even in those days"

jolihokistix
7th Feb 2018, 23:46
Dan Dare, apparently even lactose intolerant people can eat old Cheddar.

ORAC
8th Feb 2018, 05:53
Gorge themselves even....

Wingswinger
8th Feb 2018, 06:17
I hate to be a pedant but you can't really call this Cheddar Man chappie a Briton. He's a pre-Briton. The people who called themselves the Priteni (Latin Britanni) and set up home in Prydein didn't arrive until much later.

Calling him a Briton is pre-historic cultural appropriation. :}

Pontius Navigator
8th Feb 2018, 11:56
I see KnC has not graced us with an apology.

ShyTorque
8th Feb 2018, 12:07
I see KnC has not graced us with an apology.

No apology needed if you are blinkered to the opinions or feelings of others...

Chronus
8th Feb 2018, 18:34
To be certain they need to find Mr.Cheddar`s mum and dad.

jindabyne
8th Feb 2018, 18:47
Black to white,

What's to be then in another few thousand years?

Windy Militant
8th Feb 2018, 18:52
Brings to mind the Arthur C Clarke short story Reunion.
I wonder where Sir Arthur got his ideas from? :suspect:

ZeBedie
8th Feb 2018, 19:04
My ancestors crawled out of the sea and I don't care what colour they were. I don't care what anyone's colour is. Only Guardian readers are obsessed with skin colour.

Trossie
8th Feb 2018, 19:09
After reading 35 posts, I'm still none the wiser as to why it matters what colour the first Britons were.

I hate to be a pedant but you can't really call this Cheddar Man chappie a Briton. He's a pre-Briton. The people who called themselves the Priteni (Latin Britanni) and set up home in Prydein didn't arrive until much later.

Calling him a Briton is pre-historic cultural appropriation.

Probably the two most accurate posts on the Thread!

:D:D ...Lets think....they arrived about 10000 years ago, so, erm, must have crossed by sea.....thus we await suitable condemnation from the Mail / Excess...and Farage.....about how we should have "taken control of our borders ! " 10000 years ago .... 10000 years is tenuous enough to be considered accurate for the Mail after all .

On the other hand, it's not beyond the realms of possibility to envisage Mail readers / UKiP members, dashing out to buy magnifying glasses to minutely examine their bodies for any remaining traces of pigmentation.Probably the most bigoted post on here. And the factually most inaccurate: 10,000 years ago you just walked to what is now known as Britain.

The best Post? I vote for G-CPTN in Post #3.

ORAC
8th Feb 2018, 19:23
Some people always see the negative in things.....

jindabyne
8th Feb 2018, 19:40
I always thought that my grandpa was a bit shady

Rosevidney1
8th Feb 2018, 22:15
It is said that my grandfather was black hearted!

Ali Qadoo
9th Feb 2018, 06:38
As other posters have mentioned, if you go back far enough all our ancestors were blobby, amoeba-like things wriggling about in ponds. I should of course point out that our pond was in one of the nicer parts of Surrey ;)

KelvinD
9th Feb 2018, 07:55
10,000 years ago you just walked to what is now known as Britain.
Not if you were coming from the area known as France. The ridge that kept the North Sea back was breached about half a million years ago. During subsequent ice ages, sea levels rose and fell (depending on where in the freeze/thaw cycle you were) and this meant Doggerland was occasionally dry, so a very long walk from Germany to Norfolk was probably possible.

Takan Inchovit
9th Feb 2018, 09:42
I think you will find Briton Land was a penal colony for Australia way back then.

DANbudgieman
9th Feb 2018, 10:52
I can see that Diane Abbott is really going to have a field day on this! (Yawn!)

Hempy
9th Feb 2018, 11:20
This thread reminds me of the Dennis Hopper/Christopher Walken scene in True Romance. We know which one is Hopper, who’s Walken?

PcZCGMCDzbU

Icare9
9th Feb 2018, 12:03
The people who called themselves the Priteni (Latin Britanni) and set up home in Prydein didn't arrive until much later
What were they doing in Brighton? Dogging? Not much changed in 10,000 years then.

Blacksheep
9th Feb 2018, 12:31
I'm from Africa - but I'm white and have blue eyes. My Mum didn't walk down there though, she went by Union Castle and Dad travelled Royal Navy.

You really can't determine a whole population from a single sample, but why does it matter how much his skin was pigmented?

Turbine D
9th Feb 2018, 14:58
This is sure to upset the “blue-bloods” wherever they reside. But, it may confirm the “All Men Are Created Equal” theory…

Chronus
9th Feb 2018, 17:46
So it took 10000years for Britons to turn white. How come Michael Jackson did it in less than 10 years.

ShyTorque
9th Feb 2018, 18:02
You really can't determine a whole population from a single sample, but why does it matter how much his skin was pigmented?

I don't think that it does matter. The only ones here with an issue are those imagining it's an issue for others.

419
9th Feb 2018, 18:09
This is sure to upset the “blue-bloods” wherever they reside. But, it may confirm the “All Men Are Created Equal” theory…
"All men are created equal".
That's going to upset the Feminist movement.

MG23
9th Feb 2018, 19:35
You really can't determine a whole population from a single sample, but why does it matter how much his skin was pigmented?

The left can't look at a person without seeing the colour of their skin.

RR22
9th Feb 2018, 22:40
1997 perspective.

"thewestonmercurycouk/news/skeleton-descendants-reunited-in-a-cave-1-2213915"

Not trusted to link "Cleanly"
the above will get the page.

Trossie
10th Feb 2018, 06:42
1997 perspective.

"thewestonmercurycouk/news/skeleton-descendants-reunited-in-a-cave-1-2213915"

Not trusted to link "Cleanly"
the above will get the page.

Knowing someone who has worked in forensics, I would take any family links through DNA beyond grandparents with not a 'pinch' but a couple of pounds of salt!

Trossie
10th Feb 2018, 06:43
The left can't look at a person without seeing the colour of their skin.

Vide Thread https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/604955-funny-old-forum.html

Pontius Navigator
10th Feb 2018, 07:25
What were they doing in Brighton? Dogging? Not much changed in 10,000 years then.

Probably walked down from Dogger Bank.

Wonder when Devil's Hole got its name?:)

TWT
10th Feb 2018, 07:39
You don't say. It's almost like they came there from Africa or something.

Yes. There's really no need for this thread at all.

Loose rivets
10th Feb 2018, 10:40
Originally Posted by MG23 View Post
You don't say. It's almost like they came there from Africa or something.


With blue eyes?


It's thought that there was a mutation that caused just one person to have blue eyes. Somewhere mid Europe IIRC.

That lovely young blond professor gets my vote - even if she said I descended from and Aardvark . . . with one eye and a pronounced limp.


ORAC

*Our DNA was thought to be full of junk, but actually it’s a preserved database of genetic options which can be activated by RNA in reaction to environmental stress and preserved over millions of years.....

When I wrote The Perfect Code, the basic premise of the book was that there had been an exquisite design but it had become lost in the Universe. The design had the ability to protect itself by mutation - even to the point of un-evolving.* It's just a yarn, but so much design potential is in that code of ours that maybe, one day, we'll make it back to perfection.



*That concept used to get Send Clowns hurling his toys into orbit.

Eddie Dean
11th Feb 2018, 03:56
It's thought that there was a mutation that caused just one person to have blue eyes. Somewhere mid Europe IIRC.

That lovely young blond professor gets my vote - even if she said I descended from and Aardvark . . . with one eye and a pronounced limp.


ORAC

When I wrote The Perfect Code, the basic premise of the book was that there had been an exquisite design but it had become lost in the Universe. The design had the ability to protect itself by mutation - even to the point of un-evolving.* It's just a yarn, but so much design potential is in that code of ours that maybe, one day, we'll make it back to perfection.



*That concept used to get Send Clowns hurling his toys into orbit.I have long viewed DNA as the chassis which accounts for the similarities between the DNA of most life forms.
The junk that is now referred to as RNA? is the code that causes the huge differences in physical forms.
My people believe their ancestors have been on this land now called Australia forever.
Recent DNA research shows a continuous existence in north Australia for over 65000 years. Making the out of Africa hypothesis virtually untenable.

Haraka
11th Feb 2018, 10:48
It's thought that there was a mutation that caused just one person to have blue eyes. Somewhere mid Europe IIRC.
"Blue Eyes" is a recessive gene trait in any event.
Looking at U.K. population dynamics, I think that it is fairly likely that the last Britons will probably be black as well.

421dog
11th Feb 2018, 19:11
I have long viewed DNA as the chassis which accounts for the similarities between the DNA of most life forms.
The junk that is now referred to as RNA? is the code that causes the huge differences in physical forms.
My people believe their ancestors have been on this land now called Australia forever.
Recent DNA research shows a continuous existence in north Australia for over 65000 years. Making the out of Africa hypothesis virtually untenable.

Not quite.

The "junk" comprises DNA introns, which make up a large part of our genome.
These were once thought to just not do anything, but in the past 20 yrs or so, we've learned that a significant portion of this code can be turned on or off during transcription or translation during cell replication or protein production (via mRNA or pre-mRNA)

it's fascinating, and goes a long way towards explaining why genetic traits may not have to be laboriously and repetitively selected for in response to a severe environmental stressor threatening species survival...

ohmygodnotmorework
12th Feb 2018, 12:24
ref post 70, good advert, just bought the book on kindle as sounds interesting!!

EGLD
23rd Feb 2018, 09:51
The left can't look at a person without seeing the colour of their skin.

Precisely

I've been saying for some time that this nu wave Left wing/progressive mob are slowly reintroducing racial segregation through the news websites and blogs they control, and by vociferously hijacking any news item they can to push a racially divisive agenda

And it's all because their ideology needs victims for it to thrive

Anyway, looks like this story could indeed be another example of progressives poking people with sticks to try and get reactions

Ancient ‘dark-skinned’ Briton Cheddar Man find may not be true
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2161867-ancient-dark-skinned-briton-cheddar-man-find-may-not-be-true/?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=SOC&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1519296985

:=

Hempy
23rd Feb 2018, 10:47
Yeah, like all those rabid Left wing White Supremacist groups and Neo Nazis...

Oh....wait....

EGLD
23rd Feb 2018, 12:24
The first place they always go - 'b-b-b-b-but what about the far right!'

They're two cheeks of the same a*se

Hempy
23rd Feb 2018, 16:28
Just a suggestion, but it would seem more pertinent to worry about cleaning your own side of the fence before you start slinging mud. They have a word for that...it’s called hypocrisy.

EGLD
23rd Feb 2018, 17:09
Did you just compare/align me to white supremacists and neo nazis?

MG23
23rd Feb 2018, 17:15
The first place they always go - 'b-b-b-b-but what about the far right!'

Hint: Nazis are National SOCIALISTS. Only the left consider them 'far right'.

Just like the 'far right' BNP's policies were pretty much out of the 1970s Labour Party playbook, and most of their votes came from ex-Labour supporters.

Hempy
24th Feb 2018, 04:00
Did you just compare/align me to white supremacists and neo nazis?

I don’t believe so. Did you just compare everyone on the Left with racists?


Hint: Nazis are National SOCIALISTS. Only the left consider them 'far right'.

https://www.quotemaster.org/images/q/3463/346303/i4.png