Angry cabin crew (forum rumor)

[a747jb]

Rumor has it the cabin crew showed up in force to their forum today at HQ. Anybody have any info on it?

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Have seen pictures on 9crew of HUGE queues at EGHQ, and also in the auditorium. Well CC colleagues :ok:
Lets see if they are brave enough to do a Flight Deck forum, under the current regime :ugh::ugh: Probably not.

SyB :zzz::zzz:

[felixthecat]

We used to have monthly forums, fat lot of good they did us! What happened to them? Slowly died a death ..... Its good to see the CC unity, I doubt we would see the same from our side :(

[givemewings]

I'm frankly shocked that many had the day off to attend.

In the past when asking CC who'd been to a forum, a good 8 out of 10 said they would but never had the day off.

Coincidentally the date announcement of the forum always came out *after* CC bids closed. Who messed up and sent it early this time? :E

[Killer Loop]

I'm frankly shocked that many had the day off to attend.

In the past when asking CC who'd been to a forum, a good 8 out of 10 said they would but never had the day off. :E

Going on April, 2015 figures......EK CC were 20,000 strong.....135 nationalities, 55 languages......blah blah blah.

8/10 (80%) CC working so 2/10 (20%) CC would technically be available on a day off to attend such a meeting which would approximately equal 4000.

1000 turned up (5%).....so another 3000 must have been doing something else.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Going on April, 2015 figures......EK CC were 20,000 strong.....135 nationalities, 55 languages......blah blah blah.

8/10 (80%) CC working so 2/10 (20%) CC would technically be available on a day off to attend such a meeting which would approximately equal 4000.

1000 turned up (5%).....so another 3000 must have been doing something else.

A bit of glass half (or three quarters) empty syndrome there I think, Killer.

Bravo to the 1000, if that was the number. Percentage wise, that is a lot more than I think the pilot turnout might have been and certainly way more than enough to back up whatever message they were putting across.

I really can't see any point you might be trying to make.

[Killer Loop]

A bit of glass half (or three quarters) empty syndrome there I think, Killer.

Bravo to the 1000, if that was the number. Percentage wise, that is a lot more than I think the pilot turnout might have been and certainly way more than enough to back up whatever message they were putting across.

I really can't see any point you might be trying to make.

I’m simply trying to point out that the above poster was surprised that 1000 CC turned up because 8/10 CC she/he talked to said they were working so could not possibly attend such a meeting.

My point is that the above poster should not be surprised as the remaining 20% who could possibly attend would amount to 4000 persons.

But I agree, well done to the 1000.

[givemewings]

OK maybe I should have said I was shocked at that many being available AND fit to get out of bed given days off are precious little it seems.

Must have really riled them up for them to use precious XX to go to HQ. It's usually the last thing you want to get out of bed for. Especially when you're being hammered with 120+ block hours a month...

[falconeasydriver]

The leaving coordinators are going to be extra busy dealing with 1000 sudden “resignations”
Win win for cost reductions, bonuses all round.

[Xulu]

The videos recorded inside were astounding. It was almost mob mentality.

CSA's telling off and speaking back to Senior Management, to mass cheers, for example.

Whole room booing and hissing certain answers from Habibi.

It was like a scene out of Gladiator at times.

The message was clear - they've had enough. They will be heard.

Truly a day in EK history.

[LHR Rain]

Well done for the CC but that would never happen with the pilots. Too many are lazy but far too many more think EK is a good airline with nothing to complain about. Sad but true.

[Highway1]

Just seen it on Youtube - It looks like chaos, people couldn't get to Costas :eek:

[EchoKilla]

Just seen it on Youtube - It looks like chaos, people couldn't get to Costas :eek:
Where on yt - can’t find it

[glofish]

Looking forward to 6 months+ of silence and no more forums.
You can't realistically block access to Costa for EK management oxygen thieves without serious repercussions, can you.

[Fore_right]

Where on yt - can’t find it

Search for "Emirates cabin crew complain about conditions to Vice President 05/02/2018".. Tried pasting the link but didn't work. Looks like chaos indeed....

[Cloud Bunny]

Well done to each and every one of them that turned up - very proud of them. It’s time the upper floors finally get the message that they have pushed things too far now for all ‘front line’ operational staff. Although no doubt TC has been told that they all turned up to cheer how much they love him and EK 🤦🏼

[sealear]

Found it on yt, google "Emirates cabin crew complain about conditions to Vice President 05/02/2018" (as said above).
Good on them, FC would never show up in force like that.

[Airbubba]

Search for "Emirates cabin crew complain about conditions to Vice President 05/02/2018".. Tried pasting the link but didn't work. Looks like chaos indeed....

See if this link works, it may be blocked in Worker's Paradise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwrT9N4MlI

[SOPS]

So the "elastic band" has finally been pulled so tight that it has finally snapped, and now there is open revolt. This is something that those on the upper floors simply could not contemplate. The impossible has just become possible.

Well done to them all.:ok::D:D

[givemewings]

I don't regret leaving EK but I do regret not being there to witness that :D :D :D

[Wizofoz]

Which VP was copping the wrath- PLEASE tell me it was AAR!!!!!

[aeropix]

All I saw in the two videos were a bunch of crew milling around.

And while that in and of itself is truly impressive, and needed, I was hoping to see the more substantive videos hinted at from the above comments. Alas, I guess it means the truly illuminating videos have all been taken down already, perhaps under duress.

All I can say with the fast approaching pay review season coming, this could not have come at a more opportune time, for all of us.

[777-200LR]

The difference is they showed up on their day off. How many pilots would do that? I can hear it right now “if they want me to come, they can schedule me a duty day then” or “I can make a bigger difference on PPrune”

[dubaigong]

If you want things to change you have to be ready to pay a little something in return...

If you are not ready to give up one day off to come to the HQ with your fellow pilots to put some pressure on the management don't expect any changes.

Well done cabin crew , at least it shows some kind of interest in your future and some unity.

[pilotguy1222]

Which VP was copping the wrath- PLEASE tell me it was AAR!!!!!

I believe it was originally supposed to be TD.
On my last flight, CC asked me if I was coming to the forum. Stated they were going as it would be with their new VP.

[HiflierEK]

please tell me it was AAR

Yes it was him and the new VP of service delivery plus the VP of medical / HR / Rostering etc... some of who were visably trembling when they took to the stage.

[SOPS]

I’d put my left one that this whole charade will be frowned upon as a sort of amalgamation amoungst the peasants therfor the beatings will continue until moral improves.

I was thinking the same thing...will the powers that be see this as some sort of "organised action"...and take "appropriate" action. I'm willing to bet that this has little "get together" has shocked them enough to turn their lattes sour.

[givemewings]

You actually hear one of the CC remark that the managers up on the balconies are 'looking for who to fire next'

Accurate.

[Xulu]

The content videos aren't on YouTube. The crew have quietly become organised, and they aren't scared anymore.

[SOPS]

If thats true Xulu, management will come out swinging. I can only hope that the crew really are not scared anymore.

[Jack D]

Realistically many feel they have nothing to lose so threats of sacking are meaningless ..

[fatbus]

Had to laugh at the two big chairs on stage ! Good on the CC , but I'm not holding my breath !

[LivingINtheDream]

All those youngsters with their mobile phones!!! In the workplace nonetheless!!!

Some on this forum will be frowning and frothing.

Kudos to all who attended! Someone has already said this but the “if you don’t like it leave” mantra has no weight anymore.

[Rainman7]

The whole world is watching! They can no longer hide the hideous truth of how this company treats its employees. They (CC) at least have a set, more than I can say about their pilot group.....

[pilotguy1222]

Swinging and missing. You can't hold a crew forum and then claim that the CC "organized".
I am surprised that none of the content has been uploaded yet. A few videos of a large attendance at HQ is not going to get the word out to anyone outside of EK. (and for f*@ks sake, TURN YOUR PHONE SIDEWAYS FOR VIDEO!!!!:mad:)

[WakeTurb_69]

With the current trend of social media, EK management are no longer able to "divide and conquer". Good job to all our cabin crew colleagues. Hopefully the first of many steps in which the collective group of EK pilots and CC send a clear message to the 9th floor.

[fatbus]

I hope your right but I'm not sure the results of the forum have made social media yet!

[HiflierEK]

The pregnant crew that were grounded with live out allowance and salary taken away, who spoke out in the forum have now been given office jobs with all allowances and salary re instated.
CCrew 1 EK 0

[v1r8]

Awesome ! Loving the unity! Nice job CC !

[givemewings]

Good they got a result, but a shame it was on something that affects only a segment of the crew rather than everyone.

A friend who was present told me that unfortunately the content of the 'discussion' got sidetracked by some people focusing on personal grievances/issues with the company rather than the big ticket items (like rostering, lack of respect from other departments, leave, etc etc etc)

Now if they can keep the momentum and tackle the big things like the F word and the high hour rosters, that will be noteworthy.

No disrespect but a few pregnant crew isn't something that the majority of the 20k plus CC workforce super care about ahead of their QOL and working environment. They knew there was no maternity leave when they joined and they got it last year. Move on to something else and come back to the mat benefits later. Take care of the rosters, pays etc first that affects 100% of the CC workforce. Office jobs for injured crew would be a good start, since injuries are something that crew don't plan for and currently there is no guarantee of any hours available for those who can't immediately return to flying following an industrial injury

[speedbirdhopeful1]

Givemewings, please tell us how medical benefits isn’t a huge issue affecting the entire crew population? This was changed overnight and screwed all the cabin crew collectively for Co-payment and reduced cover. Maybe you can’t see how important this is? This is the main reason why they went to the forum and rosters and so on was to be discussed at a subsequent forum. Effectively making staff unpaid when they get pregnant is deplorable as well and is an important part of the medical discussion. In any civilised country it would be illegal.
Why didn’t you go to the forum or are you another ex employee with an unhealthy interest in your former employer?
I think it’s fantastic the crew attended and stood up to them, respect to everyone that showed up.

[Hypoxic01]

Videos from within the forum are all available on a cabin crew Facebook group called Crew2crew. Ask a friendly CC to show you.

[Uplink]

I don't really read Pprune much nowadays. It tends to be the same people moaning about the same issues and achieving very little.

I was pleasantly surprised to hear the news that over 1,000 cabin got off their butts and tried to make a difference. I was saddened at that point to read the sarcastic critique that so often you read on here. The discussion at the beginning about percentages of cabin crew that were perhaps in Dubai, compared to the percentages that actually turned up. The thought that what was done would achieve very little.

I think all of you still working for this company should learn from what has just taken place. The cabin crew had their managers on the ropes. Their issues may not be the issues that you would necessarily negotiate or discussion, but they actually stood as one and took the bosses on. I don't see the pilots doing that.... for the most part you just sit here and pontificate about how bad things are. In the end you either leave or continue to moan. Maybe there is something to learn from this???

[givemewings]

Hiflier, speedbir because it wasn't "medical benefits" that got reinstated, it was a benefit that was never given in the first place, and that all crew knew when joining was not paid. Ditto with the live out not being given at that time. It was no secret allowances stopped if crew took unpaid leave for pregnancy.

Unlike the company reducing the overall medical coverage and bringing in the 30% co-pay which was a reduction in established conditions. As I said it's good they achieved a result but I'd rather have seen a win that covered everyone (like putting medical coverage back to where it was) and getting rid of the new co-pat which is still quite expensive for the average crew.

My worry is the management will concede this one, to quell the fuss then stall on everything else as they always have. And the crew go on getting hammered with high hour rosters and high medical costs.

Hopefully there's more wins to come, and they benefit everyone, not just some.

[GKOC41]

The Cabin Crew will likely get a lot of sympathy from those workers in HQ. I doubt they would show the same sympathy for whinging overpaid (over worked) Pilots if you turned up en mass.


I

[fliion]

I don't really read Pprune much nowadays. It tends to be the same people moaning about the same issues and achieving very little.

I was pleasantly surprised to hear the news that over 1,000 cabin got off their butts and tried to make a difference. I was saddened at that point to read the sarcastic critique that so often you read on here. The discussion at the beginning about percentages of cabin crew that were perhaps in Dubai, compared to the percentages that actually turned up. The thought that what was done would achieve very little.

I think all of you still working for this company should learn from what has just taken place. The cabin crew had their managers on the ropes. Their issues may not be the issues that you would necessarily negotiate or discussion, but they actually stood as one and took the bosses on. I don't see the pilots doing that.... for the most part you just sit here and pontificate about how bad things are. In the end you either leave or continue to moan. Maybe there is something to learn from this???

Not sure how you can pontificate yourself and be so self assured about what the pilot group will or will not do. Your muse (amongst others above) is lacking in facts.

How do you know that if there was an open forum to air grievances with AAR that pilots would not show up in force. Because from what happened the last time they were on offer - we did & in force - though we were restricted in numbers by Fleets commandments to 65 per sitting. They were all oversubscribed.

In Jan ‘16 TICH announced a new era in Flt Ops of ‘Open Communication’ with the introduction of MONTHLY Fleet Forums. Since then there have been 7. So in essence the Co has dialed ‘2’ on us 17 times in the last 24 months. I wonder how we would be treated if we dialed ‘2’ 17 Times in the last 24 months - I digress.

I was at one of these forums and I can tell you it was heated, pointed and downright confrontational. The pilots there spoke passionately about their grievances - too many to air here. As a result of the first four which occurred previous to May 2016 - we achieved a number of objectives which were conceded to us in the Pay Review of May/June 2016. They were:
1. Increased Steps for Snr Captains
2. Flying Pay increase
3. Ground Pay
4. Sim Pay
5. Dubai duty start 1:25 previous to Departure.

Many of us put our names forward for additional forums but were told it was restricted to those who had not yet attended.

While the above may seem minor they were important. One of the issues with smaller forums is that they can be monitored and it appeared the more passionate the individual pilots were - the more furious the note takings were from the HR ladies who were writing away. ‘Attitudinal ‘ addition to my HR file I suspect.

You ask rhetorically “Maybe there is something to learn from this?”
Yes there is - and I believe the Co will learn very fast - as they did with our Fleet Forums - no more.

Go easy on the generalizations without facts.

[fatbus]

Well done Fliion

[Cantbebothered]

Which VP was copping the wrath- PLEASE tell me it was AAR!!!!!

It was :E:E:E:E

[Xulu]

Hypoxic - maybe you shouldn't advertise that here? Jesus.

[givemewings]

Xulu, C2C began as a management sanctioned group. They know it exists, IIRC there were managers in the group as well. So I doubt they're just learning of the fact that the videos are there...

[Starbear]

Come on Harry, you need to come on here and quickly castigate those unruly CC for showing a total lack of respect for their "leaders" and explain again why all should be grateful to be employed by EK at all.

[donpizmeov]

Don't think I have ever seen Harry suggest a thing.

[Talparc]

Don't think I have ever seen Harry suggest a thing.

He is just busy playing with his Bentley and defending everything EK is doing.

[sluggums]

I’m not sure that Harry has any agenda to be honest. He argues both sides, I think.

It’s just that he’s a patronising pragmatist... (I now await a patronisingly pragmatic reply :})

[fliion]

He is just busy playing with his Bentley and defending everything EK is doing.

Crèche closed on Saturday? Ask your mommy for a jigsaw.

[SilverSeated]

He is just busy playing with his Bentley and defending everything EK is doing.

I've always found Harry to provide an intelligent, well versed and pragmatic thought. Makes a refreshing change to some of what is written on these pages.

We all need a Harry on a public forum like this, don't see why he has to be shot down every time he offers balance to a topic!

[harry the cod]

Starbear

Not sure why you felt the need to make such a comment but perhaps you should stick with posting your own opinions first before rather ignorantly assuming you know mine!

I can only offer my admiration for the CC in organising such a mass meeting and for their determination to be heard. Unlike some, they were prepared to stand up and be counted, far more so than certain individuals who pervade these forums under the cover of anonymity spouting how terrible EK is...and has been for years...and years..

Well, if you're not happy with your lot, get off your backside and do something about it. Most moaners will not even have the guts to spend an hour on an e-mail for fear of a personal management backlash, but will happily post on a public forum cajoling and persuading others to do their dirty work for them. They haven't even got the balls to join the EK only forum.

Sluggs

Hopefully not too patronising this time!!;)

Harry

[nolimitholdem]

I don't mean to diminish the achievement of the CC banding together with some semblance of solidarity. Truly. Kudos to them.

But if one is rational - and honest - it's far easier to be "brave" when you have far less, or nearly nothing, to lose. (Which is why people fitting that description are far more dangerous, as well.)

The average profile of cabin crew at EK: young, single, few years invested in the company, and no designs on a career there; is nothing like that of the average profile of a pilot at EK: older, often with a family to support, and highly invested in their career. (This demographic is shifting by EK design to favour pilots fitting in the former profile, I know!)

This is a generalization and of course there are many exceptions in both groups. And again, this is NOT intended to disrespect those cabin crew who DO have a great deal to lose and showed up anyway.

But as such, especially given the vastly larger employee group, it is perfectly logical that a "revolt" should gather far larger numbers of cabin crew than pilots. Good old Harry though, never missing a chance to disparage his colleagues as lacking "balls"...do you need a link to the definition of "patronizing" or what...?

[harry the cod]

I don't mean to diminish the achievement of the CC banding together with some semblance of solidarity. Truly. Kudos to them.

But if one is rational - and honest - it's far easier to be "brave" when you have far less, or nearly nothing, to lose. (Which is why people fitting that description are far more dangerous, as well.)

The average profile of cabin crew at EK: young, single, few years invested in the company, and no designs on a career there; is nothing like that of the average profile of a pilot at EK: older, often with a family to support, and highly invested in their career. (This demographic is shifting by EK design to favour pilots fitting in the former profile, I know!)

This is a generalization and of course there are many exceptions in both groups. And again, this is NOT intended to disrespect those cabin crew who DO have a great deal to lose and showed up anyway.

But as such, especially given the vastly larger employee group, it is perfectly logical that a "revolt" should gather far larger numbers of cabin crew than pilots. Good old Harry though, never missing a chance to disparage his colleagues as lacking "balls"...do you need a link to the definition of "patronizing" or what...?

I don't disagree with some of your points. However, I would have thought that it's BECAUSE of the very reasons you state that, as a group, pilots are in a far stronger position to stand their ground than our cabin crew colleagues.

We need around 750-800 pilots over the next 12-14 months. We're getting a fraction of that number. Cabin crew recruitment has been frozen for the last 18 months and only now is it planned to re start with the earliest course being late April, early May. Without wishing to sound like the patronising git you accuse me of, if you were running this Company, which group do YOU think is the one the Company needs the most. Some of those cabin crew you refer to are just as much invested in their job as us. I would say that a large number of our pursers, CSV's and FG1's have spouses and children and, unlike the majority of pilots, also use their income to support extended family back home.

As for the disparaging comments, I'll stand by that. When I see your name on the EK dedicated forum along with Talparc and his like, then I'll retract my opinion that the majority of moaners haven't the balls!

Harry

[felixthecat]

When I see your name on the EK dedicated forum along with Talparc and his like, then I'll retract my opinion that the majority of moaners haven't the balls!

Harry

I tried to join it, but never heard anything back..... and I only moan a little bit ;)

[AERO75]

We need around 750-800 pilots over the next 12-14 months. We're getting a fraction of that number.

Harry

Sorry Harry to disagree with you. A massive number of pilots, 250-300:eek:, will join you guys soon from a different-lets say outfit. The times of pilot shortage will be over soon for at least some months.

Wait and see.

[felixthecat]

A massive number of pilots, let say 250-300:eek:, will join you guys soon from a different-lets say outfit.

I will be surprised if many come, they know the story here and will probably seek other options. That's the thing at the moment, other options are available.

[AERO75]

I will be surprised if many come, they know the story here and will probably seek other options. That's the thing at the moment, other options are available.

Dont forget the ones having loans/ mortages, or other reasons, why its nearly impossible to go for the other options. The ones from upstairs know this.

[Monarch Man]

Sorry Harry to disagree with you. A massive number of pilots, 250-300:eek:, will join you guys soon from a different-lets say outfit. The times of pilot shortage will be over soon for at least some months.

Wait and see.

So that only leaves between 4-500 required, without considering resignations, which continue unabated :hmm:

[SOPS]

And are they going to bond these new guys for five years? Not sure how that will go down!

[MacSheikh]

Rumours of a further CC forum yesterday, 19th.

By invitation only, cameras removed by security!

Any info?

[nolimitholdem]

I don't disagree with some of your points. However, I would have thought that it's BECAUSE of the very reasons you state that, as a group, pilots are in a far stronger position to stand their ground than our cabin crew colleagues.

We need around 750-800 pilots over the next 12-14 months. We're getting a fraction of that number. Cabin crew recruitment has been frozen for the last 18 months and only now is it planned to re start with the earliest course being late April, early May. Without wishing to sound like the patronising git you accuse me of, if you were running this Company, which group do YOU think is the one the Company needs the most. Some of those cabin crew you refer to are just as much invested in their job as us. I would say that a large number of our pursers, CSV's and FG1's have spouses and children and, unlike the majority of pilots, also use their income to support extended family back home.

As for the disparaging comments, I'll stand by that. When I see your name on the EK dedicated forum along with Talparc and his like, then I'll retract my opinion that the majority of moaners haven't the balls!

Harry

You are confusing leverage with risk. Doesn't matter if pilots have more of the former if they're reluctant to wield it due to the more drastic potential for loss if they fail. You DO understand the principles of risk management, right?

As far as which employee group has more to lose, I DID state that my opinion was a generality with exceptions. No need to virtue-signal.

I'm in the "enjoying-my-life" club with SOPS and a LOT of others, y'know, the ones who did a bit more than moan, and voted with their feet. I am doubtful we are welcome in the "EK dedicated forum".

[EchoKilla]

Rumours of a further CC forum yesterday, 19th.

By invitation only, cameras removed by security!

Any info?

Super low key - probably brought the muppet patrol in this time who asked preassigned questions and blabbered how great EK life is - previous forum was just a glitch and everything has been resolved. Bonus for the VPs for such great work

[givemewings]

I'd be shocked if they didn't have a few of the company shills paraded out for that one. The usual suspects who appear in every training video and think the company can do no wrong, Ek life is amazing, blah blah...

Friend still in the co said there were other videos of the mass attended 'forum' but have since disappeared. Apparently one was on YT. I wouldn't put it past to company to 'encourage' its removal a la CX and the low flyby video some years back...

[parabellum]

I think Freddie Laker had it about right. He would call a meeting of pilots to hear their moans about pay, allowances etc. Book a large hall in a local pub and lay on free beer. Meeting called for 7.0pm Freddie turned up about twenty to nine, all present had, by now, liberally imbibed on Freddie's free beer. When he entered big cheer. "All right lads, things going OK?" another huge cheer, "Well lads, loads are up but yields are down, money a bit tight, hope for an improvement next year", big cheer again, Freddie leaves, smiling, laughing, happy pilots concentrate on finishing off the free beer. Only the next day do they realise they have been 'had'! No one got too upset as it was a great place to work otherwise.

[givemewings]

EK advertising externally for VP Cabin Crew.

Either they've realised they need 'new blood' (doubt it considering the way :B was shunted out) or they're sticking the ad up so no one can say they 'didn't try' to get someone new

[DuneMentat]

Or maybe because noone in their right mind would take that job..