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Okavango
1st Feb 2018, 16:42
Out of general interest, in practise arriving IMC how often do you typically fly a full approach procedure verses being vectored on to the ILS?

Jet Jockey A4
1st Feb 2018, 17:21
Well most of the places we go are at controlled airports with arrivals and departures so probably 98% of the approaches are under radar vectors.

galaxy flyer
1st Feb 2018, 17:40
Very true on 98% vectored, but since full procedure is rarely done, I directed my pilots to take the time and fly a full procedure or non-precision approach whenever the opportunity existed. Any extra tenth or two wouldn’t be missed and proficiency gained well worth it. Vectored to ILS or a visual gets lazy habits started. Witness Medford, OR incident in R&N.

GF

Jet Jockey A4
1st Feb 2018, 18:01
Well in that incident I think the controller's clearance did not help in the situational awareness department and the guys blindly followed his lead without double checking the approach plate.

It is quite obvious that both pilots did not pay attention to the altitudes required for their segments of the approach and I doubt someone making more "full approaches" as opposed to vectored approaches would have been more immune to that kind of error.

chevvron
2nd Feb 2018, 07:18
At Farnborough (England) you have no choice; the full procedure has only been designed for those aircraft who experience radio failure otherwise all IFR arrivals are vectored for the ILS.
In the unlikely event of radar failure (Farnborough ATC has access to several remote radar sources) only aircraft already working Farnborough will be allowed to continue inbound, all others will be required to divert.

RAT 5
3rd Feb 2018, 09:51
Well in that incident I think the controller's clearance did not help in the situational awareness department and the guys blindly followed his lead without double checking the approach plate.
It is quite obvious that both pilots did not pay attention to the altitudes required for their segments of the approach

Not wishing to detract from the original question, but...you raised it. I have read the relevant thread on R&N.
I'm not quite sure what you are getting at. Being helpful in SA? Surely it is the pilots responsibility to maintain SA at all times. Blindly following an ATC without question nor consideration demonstrates a dereliction of duty due to loss of SA. I agree that if guys blindly follow radar vectors everyday, without incident, they can become blasé, especially with familiar destinations. You get to trust the controllers and know the STAR's etc. However, when making approaches over challenging terrain, especially where you will have to descend IMC below MSA, then SA should be tightened and all terrain threats, tracks & distances & Altitudes briefed thoroughly before approach; even to yourself as single crew.

Smaller airports often don't have final approach radar. You might have area radar from another field and then handed over to tower within e.g. 10nm. Being able to fly a full procedure in a relaxed an accurate manner should be no problem. Indeed, when suitable, a little more raw data manipulation keeps the brains cells spinning. One day they will be called upon and not to be found wanting.