2017 Pilot earning

[Flocks]

Hello all.

Following a thread I found on an other pilot forum with a really good success, but mostly about USA pilot. I thought it was a good idea to open same thread on PPrune, to share our salary and working condition we had in 2017. I believe it could been interesting and could open for career orientation for lot of us.

For clarity, please post like this :
1) Airline employer
2) Seat
3) Aircraft type
4) Years of Service with company
5) How many days you worked
6) How many overnights you had
7) How many hours you blocked
8) Gross income.
9) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.)
10) Total gross income.

I start :
1) Airline employer : Flybe
2) Seat : Captain
3) Aircraft type : Dash 8 Q400
4) Years of Service with company : 3 years, but year 1 as captain salary.
5) How many days you worked : 213 (does include day off worked and all standby, even if no call from my airline, on average let say 5/6 standby a months)
6) How many overnights you had : about 6 a months on average
7) How many hours you blocked : 688hr (in any case, max 750hr a year for all pilot)
8) Expected gross income : 67034£(basic) + 5700£(FDA) + 1800£ (25£ per night stop) + 1000£ (distruptions payment and 1 unscheduled night stop) + 4500£ (9 working days off payments) = 80034£
9) Extra Pay, 12pr cent retirement contribution from airline 9600£, premium medical insurance, lost of licence insurance, staff travel for most world wide major airline.
10) Total : 89634£.

Basic will increase to 70895£, 1st April.

I hope you ll find this post interresting and contribute.

[EPST]

1) Orange carrier
2) 0A
3) A320
4) 7
5) 180
6) Dunno probably around 10 over the whole year, lots of adhoc nightstops off stby in other bases.
7) 600ish
8) €109.000 basic plus sector pay
9) Sector pay, positioning pay, nightstop allowance, bonus.
10) €144.000

[iggle piggle]

Flybe pay 12% pension on Basic, FDA, overtime and disruption payments?

[aerobatic_dude]

FO, Boeing, take home 5-5.5k average per month, fly 10 days a month, no overnights, living in the sun with small cost of living.

[Redbird1]

Everyone working for cryptic airlines ? Assuming the Big company is BA ? 😂

[Redbird1]

Just thought that being an Fo earning 80k is quite high

[clamchowder]

1) UK Holiday/ Charter Airline
2) FO
3) Boeing
4) <1 year of service
5) 180 days a year (guess)
6) 2 night stops per month
7) 750 hours annually would be a high estimate
8) £83k (with duty pay, flight pay, allowances, couple day off payments)
9) £6k approx company contribution
10) £89k

[Redbird1]

Guessing clam chowder is Virgin , same as myself

[Snapper5]

I assume only the happy guys will participate in this , I agree that the number 1 point is to specify which airline you work for , far more useful than nothing

[macdo]

Just thought that being an Fo earning 80k is quite high

If I were a long service SFO with Big Airways, I'd be a bit disappointed with 80k GBP.
80k is a pretty standard gross for an FO with say 5 years service, especially if you factor in Duty/per diem/ pension contributions etc. so long as you are flying jets for a decent operator.

This type of thread crops up every year or so, and if you haven't read one before, it can be interesting. But, I'd be more interested to see a comparison between what people earned 5 or 10 years ago, versus today. How many of us have had significant pay rises not involving a promotion. I suspect that we are, in fact, all a bit poorer than we were since the financial crisis of 2008.

[Enzo999]

1) BA
2) RHS
3) 320
4) 2 (15 years industry experience)
5) Days worked) No idea too many.
6) Overnights) 3 to 5 a month
7) 550 (lots of sectors though)
8) P60 in April is looking likely to say £68k
9) PHC, LOL, Pension 12.6% of basic rising to 15.6% soon.
10) £68k all inclusive (58 basic 10k flight pay and duty pay).

[Globally Challenged]

BizJet FO

Living in UK crewing 2 aircraft based outside UK (type rating for this and all previous aircraft paid by employer)

£65k basic + DIS + LOL + up to 5% pension match + private medical (with small extra fee to include my kids) + healthy per diem system ... (based purely on claim with no receipts so unscrupulous could - if so inclined - use this an an extra income source as max average 'claim' is £85 per day which is paid free of tax)

Generous internal freelance rate when flying other company aircraft of £750 per day (I've had 7-8 days of this in the last tax year - although have been offered more I was busy with family etc - I send this all direct to my pension)

Takehome artificially low at £3031 as I have substantial salary sacrifice arrangements so £1558 per month going to pension (including employer contribution)

All expenses paid (except travel to/from the UK office) including nice taxi to/from UK airports before positioning, staying in Marriott / Hilton or better (airline and hotel points coming out of my ears so holidays are CHEAP!!)

Typically on standby for 3/4 of the month and actually away from home for around 10-14 days on average (usually only 2-3 days at a time)

Fly 200-250 hours a year around Europe and Asia with a nice bunch of guys and girls on well maintained & commercially operated aircraft with a very nice bunch of passengers.

Pretty happy with the above as I have a pretty good quality of life while saving for the future and get to spend loads of time with my young family in the UK.

[Dualcouple]

1) Nordic legacy carrier
2) Capt
3) A320
4) 13
5) 175
6) Averaging 1 per month
7) 450 (part time parental leave)
10) Around 97000 € taxable gross, take home around 4000 € / month. Working full time would increase gross about 20% and net 10%.

[Enzo999]

No full time. This is what happens when you spend 4 months a year on reserve and placed on permanent Blindlines. No one joins BA for the money anymore, thank god we have such a strong union hey!!! Good News is though thanks to P.P34 it will only take me 20 years to earn a decent living.

I have worked for quite a few companies in the U.K. including BA, Monarch and XL and I am always amazed at the salaries some claim to be earning because my experiences differ vastly.

I understand Jet2’s starting FO salary is £58k, I would be supprised if they are making more than 10k in sector pay.

In slight defence of BA please note I only did 550 hours last year, which is hardly busy.

[JulietSierra6]

Come down to the West Sussex flying club.

0-1 night stops a month, quiet winters (busy summers I grant you), and at least 5-7k more than your figure without the hassle of LHR.

Slightly in jest, LGW certainly has its issues but if you’ve got a few years left to do on the bus it’s worth a thought. Life is quite different to up the road.

[4468]

Are you part time?! £68K is terrible, jet2.com FOs get more than that.
I imagine one of Enzo’s previous employers, Monarch, may well have paid it’s FOs more too? Not that any Monarch pilots will derive any satisfaction from that.

Nobody joins BA for their earning potential in the first 5 years. Perhaps not even in the first 10? (Though recently we’ve had new joiners achieving Airbus commands in our annual bidding process!) If instant cash is your major driver, then it sounds like Jet 2, Easyjet, Ryanair or their like are absolutely wonderful.

However, if you are interested in a combination of career earnings, job security, variety and many other largely intangibles and opportunities, then perhaps, longer term, you’d be happier at BA? Though in the early years (especially in SH) you will likely spend more time in uniform than virtually any other professional pilot in the UK. Which is not good!

BA’s not for everyone. It never was! If it’s not for you, that’s absolutely fine. Enjoy what you do. But life is never ‘all about the money’!

[akindofmagic]

1) Orange
2) LHS
3) A320
4) 6
5) 190 (guess)
6) 0
7) 400
8) £130k (according to today's exchange rate)
9) Company contributes approx £2k per month to pension, £18k in bonus payments
10) £148k + £24k pension

[Enzo999]

Which base?

[recall_checked]

Further to DobblerChina's post...

For post 2012 joiners like myself, total gross £87k. Short haul. 2 years in the company. Pension 13.5% (10% company).

Happy. No plans to leave.

[Snapper5]

So is that TUI ? Or Thomas cook ? guys come on ! Why the secrecy

[Snapper5]

Windshearescape your a low seniority FO on the 747 at BA , as you have mentioned in your post history

[Enzo999]

recall_checked

My understanding is the basic FO salary at TUI is 62k, so do you seriously make 25k in additional pay? Once again I seem to have joined the wrong airline.

[wheelie my boeing]

1. Big Airways
2. RHS
3. Two decks and better looking than a 380.
4. 10
5. Too many. 16/17?
6. Too many. Every return flight overnight.
7. Too many. Bumping off 900 per year
8. £81,000
9. Roughly £1,500 per month allowances. Plus 12% employer pension contribution, and overtime of averaged out about £500 per month.
10. Around £105,000 gross per annum.

[bex88]

Are these gross pa figures people are talking about accounting for the deduction of their pension contributions or not? Gross on your pay slip is after pension contributions have been deducted. Some of these figures make me question if I really am even in the same airline because I am certainly not on the same pay. I am work shy though so that has a £2500 affect with less flight pay.

[Enzo999]

Interesting point and quite true I did not take that in to account, so you can add about 5k to my previous figures.

[MaverickPrime]

Bearing in mind the new pay deal at Ryanair; I think the writing is on the wall that BA doesn’t even pay as well as Ryanair unless you are a BA Captain with considerable seniority. Obviously a lot of other things need to change for the better at Ryanair, but let’s say BALPA can pull that of in the next few years, where does that leave BA?

BA was once the aspiration of every pilot, now it doesn’t look like such a sure career move in comparison to the EZYs and RYRs. Shame really as BA crews always came across as very professional and competent. However, the talent will follow the Ts&Cs, but Alex Cruz wouldn’t understand that!

I’m not insinuating that everyone is going to suddenly sign up with RYR, but it is heading in that direction.

[g109]

EK
CAPT
A380
abound 100h/month
around 900h/year
around 11 overnight/month
around 11000 GBP net/month
plus pension
plus Health ins
plus LoL
plus free house, all bills paid

still looking to leave.

[Stocious]

Plenty of talented people are banging on the door of BA every time they recruit. Perhaps some aren't but money is still pretty decent here and I have a lifestyle that some guys could only dream of getting!

Each to their own I suppose.

[busybee123]

So is that TUI ? Or Thomas cook ? guys come on ! Why the secrecy

It’s TUI/Thomson.
On the 757/76 since 2014. RHS.
Gross 62k basic + about 15-18k in duty/flight pay. (Depending on yearly hours, some bases busier than others).

In addition can earn alot more in overtime, maybe 10-15k but not set in stone.

On an interesting note of how good I could of had it if born 30 years earlier!!
Flew with an ex-Britannia LTC who’s been there since the late 80’s who grosses 170k (no overtime) and will soon retire on a final salary pension of 80/90k a year!!
Not bad for lolling around in pyjamas. We’ll never see those days again.

Pension- 3.5% from me, 15% from company.
That’s now been reduced to 10% company for new starters.

Lets raise a glass to Ryanair pilots for getting Union recognition this year, and hoping that will eventually stop and reverse the ever descending Pay and Conditions for them and the rest of the industry.

[oboema]

-KLM
-F/O 737
-10yrs
-2017: €148.380
-LOL: get payed 70% of last salary till retirement age + 150k lump sum. Followed by decent pension.
-Pension: avg company contribution 46%. Retire at 58.
(One can stretch retirement to 62, but for that has to work part time to be “production neutral” for the younger guys’ career progression.
-Work 17/18 days/month max.
-680h/yr (2017)
-no flight/duty pay so constant income regardless of hours flown/ sickness etc (extra flying payed out in extra free days)
-free jumpseat and scheduling options to live anywhere (Spain/France/USA/Bonaire/Canada/Italy etc)
-98% union membership

[Snapper5]

Wow some pretty decent pay ! I guess you also have to factor in the lifestyle etc as well

[We Tu Lo]

1) Airline employer - CityJet
2) Seat - LHS
3) Aircraft type -RJ85
4) Years of Service with company - 10
5) How many days you worked - 214 (6:3 pattern, 29 days leave)
6) How many overnights you had - 180
7) How many hours you blocked - 500
8) Gross income. - 64k basic taxed normally + 22k allowances, taxed at about 2.5%
9) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.) - 8k pension, loss of licence, income continuance, Zed staff travel.
10) Total gross income. - Take home around 5-5.5k/mth

Allowances high because overnights high and favourable tax treatment; most earn much less and are at home somewhat more; new joiners eligible for 5% pension, not 12%. Pay increase will be 1.5%pa going forward. 6:3 pattern and eligibility for fixed pattern are not universal. Also, pattern regularly changes, so planning days off is a no no, but better than nothing.

[ChrisE]

1) Airline employer - Hearty UK charter company
2) Seat - RHS
3) Aircraft type -B757/767
4) Years of Service with company - 2 (Straight from flight school)
5) How many days you worked - Not many! Maybe 60 flying days per year plus 3 days/week sby
6) How many overnights you had - 15+
7) How many hours you blocked - 500-600 per year
8) Gross income. - £51k basic with approx £10k in FDA/DOP
9) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.) - As above with loss of medical insurance, private healthcare, ID travel (coming soon) and a good incentive of £500/day £800/night day off payment.
10) Total gross income. - between £4500 and £5000 per month gross

[Snapper5]

1) Virgin Atlantic
2) RHS
3) A330
4) Less than a year (November ex Mon)
5) 12
6) 5 I think
7) 40
8) around £73,000 and that’s with 750hrs limitation which I find amazing
9) pension is 15% , around $800 downroute pay , great staff Travel and other perks , crew actually have a good time and socialise
10) Including down route expenses it’s around £4500pm ,

I’m happy and lucky , night flights are pretty difficult but I always found them hard !

Happy with the Job security MUCH better than Monarch anyway 😂

[pilotman330]

1) Airline employer - Cargo Yellow and Red
2) Seat - RHS
3) Aircraft type - B757
4) Years of Service with company - 6
5) How many days you worked - 17 days/month average
6) How many overnights you had - 17 days away per month
7) How many hours you blocked - 230 hours in 2017.
8) Gross income - €87k
9) Extra Pay - loss of medical insurance, pension, sector pay, flight duty, time away pay.
10) Around €5K net/month

Happy, great atmosphere with the colleagues, airline making huge profit, short sectors and a lot of fun with the 757!

[skyblue738]

1) Spanish IAG low cost
2) FO
3)A320
4)2 years
5) 220
6) 3-4
7- 899
8) 14k base
9) Around 10k
10) 24k

[CaptainProp]

24000 net? Hell I’ll sign up for that right seat!!

CP

Edit (for clarification): 24k is not 2400.

[Snapper5]

€2400 jeez !! Your BA colleagues basically do the same thing for £4K ? Looking at the way mr Cruz operates I’m sure that gap will be getting smaller (the wrong way)

[Flocks]

24000 euro a year, it is 2000euro a month, I hope it is after tax and they didn't ask you to pay your type rating ... And you did 899hours (there are really good at rostering ...)
I know we all need to start, but on a A320, knowing the airline (we all recognise) is working quit well, I don't understand why Europe pilot accept this stuff ...

[CaptainProp]

Ahh, per year.... :}

CP

[recall_checked]

1) Virgin Atlantic
2) RHS
3) A330
4) Less than a year (November ex Mon)
5) 12
6) 5 I think
7) 40
8) around £73,000 and that’s with 750hrs limitation which I find amazing
9) pension is 15% , around $800 downroute pay , great staff Travel and other perks , crew actually have a good time and socialise
10) Including down route expenses it’s around £4500pm ,

I’m happy and lucky , night flights are pretty difficult but I always found them hard !

Happy with the Job security MUCH better than Monarch anyway 😂

Is that £4.5k before you have spent your down route allowances, or is that what you have left?

[Snapper5]

That’s with a few hundred spent downroute , you get the cash out on a card which you can do with as you please

[Enzo999]

€2400 jeez !! Your BA colleagues basically do the same thing for £4K ? Looking at the way mr Cruz operates I’m sure that gap will be getting smaller (the wrong way)

And I am sure your colleagues at Hop, Joon, Transavia and Delta Conections all get paid less than you to do basically the same job. Still providing we all keep making money no need for panic just yet!!!

[Snapper5]

I actually have to partially agree with you Enzo , thing I hate is that KLM/AF/Delta guys get paid quite a bit more !
Especially Delta , but what a great company Delta is !! Make a sh@t load of cash and give the employees large pay rises , unlike others which I’m sure you know about

[Whisperfail]

1) Nordic Carrier 

2) F/O
3) B737

4) Second year

5) 173 (had a few days off due to parental leave)

6) 45 in full year. 3-7/month

7) 835

8) 3800€/month

9) 200-600€/month (per diem payments, whereof some are taxable and some not)
-Pension of about 4,5% of salary is payed on top of the basic state pension. (% increase with higher income.)
-Company pays for all expenses with license, medical, uniforms etc. lol & extra medical insurense on top of the state is payed for by the employer. However some taxes are to be payed for those benefits.

10) total gross income 2017 ~50k €
- Net income after taxes was around 35k

Kind of high taxes where I live but it comes with some perks like payed parental leave up to a certain income (where basically all pilots hits the cap), and good vacation laws.

[Enzo999]

I actually have to partially agree with you Enzo , thing I hate is that KLM/AF/Delta guys get paid quite a bit more !
Especially Delta , but what a great company Delta is !! Make a sh@t load of cash and give the employees large pay rises , unlike others which I’m sure you know about

It’s a shame neither of us will ever get to experience the joys of working for Delta! I think you get my point, Vueling are no more colleagues of BA than Virgin is to Hop! Your constant little digs at BA and loving of Monarch, Virgin or who ever it is you currently work for is getting boring. Most people reading your sarcastic comments will simply put your bitterness down to one or several failed application attempts, if this is not the case then simply refrain from bad mouthing a company you have no connection to, that way you wont come across as so arrogant.

[A320baby]

You never know, some of us might experience Delta one day

[Snapper5]

Well I obviously no longer work at Monarch , perfectly happy with the way it has all worked out , loyal to Monarch until the end and now in Virgin . Admittedly I had applied to Virgin a number of times in the past !
I’m not trying to be smug etc...
you Enzo have a chip on your shoulder

[Wodka]

1) BACF
2) LHS
3) E190/170
4) 3yrs
5) LOTS
6) 10+ per month is normal
7) 700ish last year, more this year but high duty hrs
8) £74k basic + £6k duty = £80k
9) £2k London weighting + £3k avg. disruption (disruption £250 & day off = £500) + £1k bonus (whatever...)
10) £86k avg = £4500-4800 net avg.

A large gulf indeed from RYR/EZY et al... with increases in weekend & night flying, out of base operations and a probable future re-fleet, mgmt will not be able to hide behind the current excuses of aircraft size & productivity forever.

[Enzo999]

Well I obviously no longer work at Monarch , perfectly happy with the way it has all worked out , loyal to Monarch until the end and now in Virgin . Admittedly I had applied to Virgin a number of times in the past !
I’m not trying to be smug etc...
you Enzo have a chip on your shoulder

It’s not me making barbed comments about other people’s employers!

[felixthecat]

1) EK
2) LHS
3) 777
4) Lots
5) Approx 20 per month
6) 10+
7) 900 plus bunk time
8) £150,000 net (salary flight pay and housing)
9) Pension £15000
10) Tax free so £165000 including pension

[Boeing 7E7]

What about the big US carriers? That would be very interesting to hear.

[Lepo]

Just to give you guys a perspective of what happens in another part of the world.

1) Employer - GOL Linhas Aereas (Brazil)
2) FO
3) B737NG
4) 3 years of service
5) Usually between 10-13 days off a month.
6) Usually around 5-8 overnights a month.
7) 708h in 2017
8) Gross Income 2017: 160k BRL (around €40k)
9) Around €300-400 on per diem per month. Per diems are not taxed in Brazil.
Last year airline paid 0,5 salaries on profit share bonus. This year they're paying 0,65.
MyID travel available with tons of airlines.
10) 180k BRL (around 45k Euro)

[skyblue738]

24000 euro a year, it is 2000euro a month, I hope it is after tax and they didn't ask you to pay your type rating ... And you did 899hours (there are really good at rostering ...)
I know we all need to start, but on a A320, knowing the airline (we all recognise) is working quit well, I don't understand why Europe pilot accept this stuff ...

Actually it's a little bit more, with stand by duty, hours in excess, etc. I forgot to consider that. On average, 2300 net.

Airlines which don't ask you to pay type rating... There aren't a lot.

[Sfopilot207]

1) Alaska Airlines/ Virgin America
2) FO
3) A320
4) 2 yrs with the company
5) ~160 Days worked
6) ~ 110 overnights
7) 750 hrs
8) $76K USD
9) $15k USD (Profit sharing +Retirement)
10) $91K USD for 2017

[INNflight]

1) Swiss
2) F/O
3) 777
4) 6 years
5) 130-160 maybe
6) 8-10 / month
7) looks like 600-700 p.a.
8) 105,000 CHF / year
9) 1000-1200 CHF per diem / month plus bonus and xmas money if we're lucky
10) ca. 120,000 CHF all in depending on bonus and per diems

[hans brinker]

1) Airline employer: USA ULCC
2) Seat : Left
3) Aircraft type; A320
4) Years of Service with company: 5
5) How many days you worked: 15/month
6) How many overnights you had 11/month
7) How many hours you blocked 750/yr
8) Gross income: $195.000
9) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.) retirement $20.000. Per diem $6.000 both untaxed
10) Total gross income. +/- $220.000

All based on flying guarantee (basic schedule), I can normally drop half my schedule or pickup another 30-50 hours of credit (depending on reserve availability) @$210/hr if I want to.

[GoodTimes]

Southwest
365k
36k retirement

[Marlon Brando]

1) Airline employer: private owner
2) Seat : FO
3) Aircraft type; Challenger
4) Years of Service with company: 1
5) How many days you worked: 180 days
6) How many overnights you had: 180
7) How many hours you blocked : 350hrs
8) Gross income: $60000
9) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.) : 8000
10) Total gross income : 68000$

[NXdude]

1) Air Macau
2) LHS
3) A320
4) 4 Years of service
5) 240
6) 4-6/month
7) 900
8) US$90k/year basic
9) 13th salary (by contract), 14th salary (discretionary), sector pay, duty pay, per diem, overtime, triple time on public holidays, housing allowance, laundry allowance, transport allowance, performance incentive.
10) US$200k before tax. Low tax regime gives US$190k after tax. Plus provident fund of 12.5% of basic salary on top, only payable in cash after every 4 years of service.

[FlyingGypsy]

Hello all,
First post on here hope your all well ! Fly safe !

1) Eastern Airways UK
2) Right Hand Seat
3) Jetstream 41
4) 2 Years
5) Only Get 7 Days Off PM As A Treat Sometimes 8, Max Duty Hours, 4/6 Some Times 7 Sectors Per Day
6) 15+ Night Stops Per Month Very Rarely At Home Base With Lots Of Days Off Out Station With Only Duty Pay For Your Troubles
7) 60/70hrs Per Month Average
8) Basic Salary £21,495 No Service Pay For FO's You Get Pay for TT and Hours On Type, Joined Company Min Hours So My Salary Is Just Under £23k
9) No Sector Pay, £1.30 Per Hour Duty Pay Roughly £3.5K Per Year 100% Taxed. Total Gross £26K Per Year Net £20,840 That's £1734.26 Net Per Month
10) Pension is 1% from Company 1% Employee, Day Off Payments Very Rare FO £200

[geardown1]

1) Loganair
2) RHS
3) SF340
4) 1.5 years
5) Unsure total, off 9 days a month exc. leave.
6) Base dependant, some nil, about 4 or 5 per month for me.
7) 550-600 in a year.
8) £30K
9) £9 per report. £3 per sector. £23 per UK nightstop. Day Off pay £300. 20% pension (8% from me).
10) Averaging monthly gross £3100, net £2500. Rich in the flying I do.

[LlamaFarmer]

Hello all,
First post on here hope your all well ! Fly safe !

1) Eastern Airways UK

And what's Eastern like these days??

[mikehammer]

And what's Eastern like these days??

Great fun, good colleagues superb flying, terms and conditions accurately depicted above however. Money wise it's a hobby, if you can afford it.

[jamestkirk]

dont forget

11) £50 disruption payment if; its a tuesday, its raining, been an alien invasion, >4 hours delay thats not down to tech, weather, airport closing, global flood but will be paid if this time its a consequence of aforementioned alien invasion, if its not a tuesday. Please note that all disruption payments will be declined in the event you qualify for a disruption payment.

[macdo]

By god, Eastern is shocking! My daughter makes more stacking shelves in London.

[FlyingGypsy]

As said above the crew make this company, the people who we work with are amazing couldn’t get through the day without them! Flying is amazing solid building block to move on to pastures new one day! After my 5 year bond, that is their ploy to hold on to crew, We have lots of crew departing to Jet2. As for rostering / crewing / management absolutely appalling I have nothing to compare with but the way I’m spoken to if I try to voice my opinion on changes to my roster etc which happen daily, and if you do moan next comes the punishment roster lol I’ve never had a roster yet that’s has stayed as published. On average I would say 95% of my roster changes. But I’m greatful for the Job !

[a350pilots]

24000 net? Hell I’ll sign up for that right seat!!

CP

Edit (for clarification): 24k is not 2400.

That is VLG for in a year :eek::eek:

[CaptainProp]

That is VLG for in a year :eek::eek:

Apparently so, I thought it was per month! ;-)

Large private jet.
All in all €160.000 gross per year + about €10K tip or so.
Roughly 200-210 days on duty minus perhaps 15-20 maintenance days per year where I can go home.
Max 400 hours.

CP

[El Capitano]

By god, Eastern is shocking! My daughter makes more stacking shelves in London.

I really don,t understand that any pilot accepts these lousy salaries, pay for type rating and even pay for line training.
Please, please stop it! Don,t even go on assessment. Get those scam airlines on their knees.
If they can not or don,t want to pay decent salaries, then they will be due to lack of pilots forced to pay a market conform salary or simply have to stop their operations.

[JOSHUA]

I really don,t understand that any pilot accepts these lousy salaries, pay for type rating and even pay for line training.
Please, please stop it! Don,t even go on assessment. Get those scam airlines on their knees.
If they can not or don,t want to pay decent salaries, then they will be due to lack of pilots forced to pay a market conform salary or simply have to stop their operations.

So easy for any one us us to preach when we’re already established in an airliner seat, earning decent bucks. Take yourself back to the early 2000’s when jobs were scarce and sat with a fresh licence, all you wanted to do was sit at the front of an airliner and start building those hours to further your career. If you don’t take the job, someone else will whilst you’re sat there hoping/dreaming and still having to pay to keep your licence current.

The regulators and pressure from unions (supported by those of us already established in the industry) is the only way any of these poor t&c’s/pay can be addressed. Otherwise, one can only hope the supply of cadets due to to excessive costs and lack of funds, will dry up - then perhaps improvements will happen......

[Denti]

So easy for any one us us to preach when we’re already established in an airliner seat, earning decent bucks. Take yourself back to the early 2000’s when jobs were scarce and sat with a fresh licence, all you wanted to do was sit at the front of an airliner and start building those hours to further your career. If you don’t take the job, someone else will whilst you’re sat there hoping/dreaming and still having to pay to keep your licence current.

The regulators and pressure from unions (supported by those of us already established in the industry) is the only way any of these poor t&c’s/pay can be addressed. Otherwise, one can only hope the supply of cadets due to to excessive costs and lack of funds, will dry up - then perhaps improvements will happen......

Early 2000s were not that bad, if you talk about the really early years. Got my first job in autumn 2000 after a six month job hunt right out of flight school. Could choose between two jobs, one with a Fokker 50 Typerating which i had to pay for, however, after 5 years in the company i would have gotten the money back including interest. And the second job was on a 737, type rating fully paid for by the company including accommodation, business travel to the training facility and back, hotel for the first four weeks at the base to give me time to house hunt, some small training pay and full per diems. And that was not the best job out there by far, Lufthansa hired several hundred ready entries that year, as did their regional Cityline and of course others like Hapag Lloyd (nowadays known as TUI-Fly). It went on into the next year and even continued for a few weeks after 9/11, but then came to a very hard stop.

Needless to say, i never paid for a type rating, always got paid for a job and don't think anybody should do that, but i know it is the accepted norm for many new-hires today. Which is why i do applaud ryanairs move to bond the cadet instead of let them pay, which i hope will put pressure on their competitors to do the same.

[macdo]

So easy for any one us us to preach when we’re already established in an airliner seat, earning decent bucks. Take yourself back to the early 2000’s when jobs were scarce and sat with a fresh licence, all you wanted to do was sit at the front of an airliner and start building those hours to further your career. If you don’t take the job, someone else will whilst you’re sat there hoping/dreaming and still having to pay to keep your licence current.

The regulators and pressure from unions (supported by those of us already established in the industry) is the only way any of these poor t&c’s/pay can be addressed. Otherwise, one can only hope the supply of cadets due to to excessive costs and lack of funds, will dry up - then perhaps improvements will happen......

I started a little earlier than that, but not much. Yes, there were good and bad years for recruitment, there was hardly anything in the mid 90's, , then late 90's it got lively and then died again in around 2001. Hey ho, that's capitalism red in tooth and claw. But the big difference was that the jobs, even with the bottom feeding turbo prop operators, came with a paid for type rating and a bond. The bond reduced with your service, or if you left early, you paid it off. I got paid pretty much the same in 97 as an Eastern FO does now, without the debt mountain round my neck. I think there are going to be a lot of very unhappy burnt out, debt laden pilots in the future, juggling training, mortgage and God forbid, divorce costs from a large headline salary, which leaves them with very little left to have fun with.

[Northern Highflyer]

Is it true that you guys at Eastern are now having to work more and more weekends ? Probably one of it's best selling points (other than the great crews) was the fact it was largely Mon-Fri flying, except at Aberdeen with it's Sunday flights, and a few charters.

[mikehammer]

Is it true that you guys at Eastern are now having to work more and more weekends ? Probably one of it's best selling points (other than the great crews) was the fact it was largely Mon-Fri flying, except at Aberdeen with it's Sunday flights, and a few charters.

Weekend schedules are here at my base, yes. I signed a contract agreeing to hours as required by the company. If i get to not liking that, I know my choices. It suits me, I enjoy the flying, have no interest in being a button pusher for hours on end with no landing and approach currency.

As I said, it's a hobby from a base (sometimes a gateway near you). But you have to be able to afford a job like this.

In spite of the above post re disruption payments, I can only speak of my own experience, and I've not had one denied. I know some who have though, but the rules are in black and white in the manuals.

It's ok here, management are approachable, never bother me, but I keep my nose clean and get on with my job, and for that I feel appreciated. As I say, that's my experience and I'm not exactly new here.

[FightFireWithFire]

1) VLG
2) Rhs
3) A320
4) 8 months
5) 12 days off minimum
6) 25 in total more or less, and I've ask for that
7) 547
8) 23. 884€ net (yes, I went through every single paycheck)

[mansaloco]

1) Cargolux
2) Lhs
3) B744/748
4)17 years of service
5)~ 130 days away from home (80% partime scheme)
6)~11 night stops a month
7)~450 hours a year
8)140k a year gross + tax free per diem 100€/day

[Reluctant Bus Driver]

AA
CA
A320
27 years
15-20 days a month
a lot
85-90 hours a month
315 000 usd
35000 401k (pension) contribution

[El Capitano]

in Europe we do definitely something wrong! Even at the majors the yearly earnings are much lower than in the US. AND we pay much more tax on it. Question of establishment of much, much stronger pan-European pilot unions and every single pilot should not be afraid to fight for their own conditions and be solid air for other pilots concerned. And never, ever accept pay to fly again!QUOTE=Reluctant Bus Driver;10423856]AA
CA
A320
27 years
15-20 days a month
a lot
85-90 hours a month
315 000 usd
35000 401k (pension) contribution[/QUOTE]

[Reluctant Bus Driver]

The pay has come back at the U.S. legacies after years of stagnation due to first deregulation then the aftermath of 911. Other than that we are still basically under a bankruptcy contract. Delta and United are doing better. Factor in their profit sharing and narrow body captain pay goes north of 400 000 if you work hard..

[Basologie]

For clarity, please post like this :
1) QR
2) RHS
3) 777
4) 3
5) Worked 230 days (of which 15 days off downroute), leave 42 days, off 94 days
6) All flights are with an overnight apart from line check
7) Block 1100 + 260 hours deadhead
8) NET approx 100.000,- for basic and flight pay
9) per diem depends on destination roughly 550,- to 750 euro a month, 3500,- housing + utilities
10) NET income 145.000,- euro per year

[CaptainProp]

7) Block 1100 + 260 hours deadhead

:confused: :eek: Is this for real?! 1100 BLOCK + 260 positioning?!

​​​​​​​CP

[Boeing 7E7]

TUI
captain
lots over time
£180,000+

[VJW]

TUI
captain
lots over time
£180,000+

Wow that surprises me...

[Early Right]

1) Airline employer: Nordic
2) Seat : Left
3) Aircraft type; B757/767
4) Years of Service with company: 20
5) How many days you worked: 15-20/month
6) How many overnights you had 10/month
7) How many hours you blocked 550/yr
8) Gross income: aprox eur180.000
9) Extra Pay: Per diem +/- eur16.000 untaxed, pension +/- eur40.000 untaxed
10) Total gross income. +/- eur236.000
All in all a very reasonable bunch to work with

[VJW]

Have you seen the TUI O/T DO payments?

Mate of mine 2nd year at TUI £95k before tax but he worked hard for it.

95k in overtime? Somethings got to give there surely?!

Are they paying £100k to Captains to only work 500 hrs ?

[Solenoid]

1) VLG
2) Rhs
3) A320
4) 8 months
5) 12 days off minimum
6) 25 in total more or less, and I've ask for that
7) 547
8) 23. 884€ net (yes, I went through every single paycheck)

that salary is a real shame for our profession.

[Boeing 7E7]

95k in overtime? Somethings got to give there surely?!

Are they paying £100k to Captains to only work 500 hrs ?

The key here is over time. The business model TUI uses is that it is crewed to about 80% of its pilot need which allows pilots to significantly increase their take home pay, should they want to. Some pilots do a lot of overtime, some pilots do a little and some pilots do none. It’s up to them. The company benefit because their overall salary bill is less, by not having to carry so many pilots over the quieter winter months, while effectively employing 20% of it peak pilot requirements by employing contract (company pilots) on a daily rate, without having to also pay pension, NI, LOL, Private Health Care and the numerous other costs associated with employing a pilot. In general it works well.

[twogoodstarts]

As stated above, the overtime at TUI is very lucrative and win win for the company and pilot.
As a year 5 FO I’ve grossed just over £100k per year over the last three years.

Yes I sign up for alot of overtime but my yearly flying hours are still no more than about 800 ish.
With no overtime I’m guessing it would be around the 620 ish hours mark and just over 80k gross.

Captains doing lots of overtime are grossing up to £200k.

[Alpine Flyer]

For clarity, please post like this :
1) Airline employer: Central European Legacy Carrier
2) Seat: left front
3) Aircraft type: E195
4) Years of Service with company: almost 30
5) How many days you worked: 205
6) How many overnights you had: a couple per month
7) How many hours you blocked: 820 (including credit hours)
8) Gross income. 150K EUR
9) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.) 15K EUR (Instructor), (rather low per diems not included, a few hundred per month)
10) Total gross income. 165K EUR (plus 5% pension contribution in pension plan plus 1,73% contribution in state severance payment funds plus stat pension contribution)

Taxed at roughly 40-45% overall.

[Basologie]

:confused: :eek: Is this for real?! 1100 BLOCK + 260 positioning?!

CP
Yup for sure

[linza]

1) Airline employer: Vueling
2) Seat : Left
3) Aircraft type; A320 family
4) Years of Service with company: 7
5) How many days you worked: 11-13/month
6) How many overnights you had: 0-1/month
7) How many hours you blocked: nearly 900 hours/year
8) Gross income: 154.000€ year 2018 (tax certificate)
9) Taxes around 35-40%
10) Net income around 100k

At homebase..... :ok:

[Modular Halil]

EK
CAPT
A380
abound 100h/month
around 900h/year
around 11 overnight/month
around 11000 GBP net/month
plus pension
plus Health ins
plus LoL
plus free house, all bills paid

still looking to leave.


mind if i ask why you'd want to leave?