BA Survey - Are they waking up?

[SLF3]

Have just been sent a survey by BA considerably more detailed than the usual ones. Basically asks why I am not flying them anymore and how I view them. Takes about 20 minutes to complete. Unusually for surveys of this sort, it seems to welcome hard truths and asks for detail:

- How do you view BA (response from 'I love them' to 'I hate them')
- BA is well managed? (response from 'totally agree' to 'what are you smoking?')

I'm paraphrasing only slightly. Is there some fairly advance navel gazing going on or is this just the usual window dressing?

The one I loved was 'BA will always be a full service airline'. Right. And they are now retrofitting the same seats short haul seats as Easy have used for years, on the same seat spacing. The only thing remaining is the hand baggage allowance, which will have to go since they are already struggling with the current seat spacing.

[Basil]

Willie Walsh needs to take a hard look at the BA top management and their cost cutting, particularly in premium.

[SamYeager]

Was quite surprised to receive a survey that didn't just give me fixed options between "we're brilliant" and "we're good but could be better". Will anything really change? I suspect the messenger will be shot and a few deck chairs will be shuffled around. :ugh:

[pax britanica]

I wrote to BA about 6 weeks ago with a potential security issue. No reply, escalated it-no reply, escalated to Sr Cruz office., no reply so now I will send it to CAA since it was fairly serious (mis matches of pax and baggage details on reservations system which i do not think is supposed to happen). So BA clearly just do not care about anything except money (check out the extortionate seat reservation fees on long haul and why is it different to short haul anyway).

Compare with BT where I had an issue mishandled by customer service staff, wrote to Chairmans office and two days later got a call from someone who sorted it all out and gave me £25 as a gesture of goodwill.

BA are falling badly behind, especially in J which is really dated and ludicrously cramped and cannot rely on Avios hoarding business pax for ever

[ExXB]

Reduced revenues = reduced bonuses. That is the only thing they care about these days.

Surveys like this are to pat themselves on the back and ignore their unhappy customers.

[GROUNDHOG]

I sent them a query about a forthcoming flight and the response couldn't have been better, have also done the survey, lets hope things are on the up.

[EcamSurprise]

Up to a €100 per person per flight to choose my business class seat or €75 if I go in the 8 across section. No Thanks. I'll fly with someone else who gives me free seat selection, is cheaper and has 4 across in business!

[Ancient Observer]

They have not responded to negative views from the slf in the last few years and I am sure this will not change with the current lords and masters. Filling in those surveys shows the triumph of Hope over Experience. (A bit like being a fan of Newcastle football club)

[alserire]

Charging people to choose their seat in business class is simply beyond the beyond.

[Capot]

As ever, BA's bright new ideas seem to be defeated by poor execution....

I was amused to be offered the opportunity to choose in advance a meal on a premium economy long-haul flight later this week; not a huge benefit, as they say you can always choose after boarding. I guess it guarantees the meal of your choice, and also avoids a lot of waste for BA, so no harm done.

The choice was of the main course only, from 2 options only.

However, when I tried to save the choice, I got a response advising that BA are unable to handle the request. The option on the return flight is not available at all, but I'm sure that this is because it's a red-eye back to LHR with no full meals.

It's a truism that the more you try to give people something extra, the more you give them to moan about. I do recognise that this is what I'm doing, when I would never have dreamed of complaining about not being able to pre-select a meal. But BA never seem to learn that it's best, when offering a new and better service, to ensure that it is delivered nicely.


Postscript..... When I went back to try again with the meal order, I found that the original order had been saved, in spite of the response saying it couldn't be done!

[PAXboy]

Two years ago, when using SQ (LHR~SIN~SYD) in P.E., they offered a wider choice of meals for pre-order and they were served correctly for all four sectors of the trip. But, to be fair, the VS P.E. offer and execution is also falling behind.

[Beavis_]

"However, when I tried to save the choice, I got a response advising that BA are unable to handle the request. The option on the return flight is not available at all, but I'm sure that this is because it's a red-eye back to LHR with no full meals. "
It was all working when I left [honest]. Years back I worked on some of BA's Orders Data Store, which was their much cheaper copy of the Amadeus system. Was hired as a developer [computer programmer], but then everything was outsourced.
The system was complex (and a bit nasty), and the airline business required a lot of domain knowledge, so it's no surprise to me that they have been and still are struggling to provide a half decient service since everything has been outsourced.
Sadly the senior managers just viewed IT as a "cost" to be reduced, with no vison of the future.

I did my own "BA Survey" - the day after they said "we are not extending your contract at the end of this month", I never went back. I was a self employed contractor, so did not really need to give much [any] notice. I'll normally be happy to do a "hand over", but did not like the way the managers were behaving. Don't think I'll ever fly BA unless I really, really need to.

[HZ123]

Aren't these surveys self fulfilling ? We know what you want but even armed with that fact we take more monies from you, your getting no more! We as the consumer have much to answer for as we demand cheaper costs on everything!

[The Sleeping Pax]

Not posted on Pprune for about 6 years but an infrequent visitor these days.
Was asked recently to fill in a survey from BA following a return business class journey.
I'd paid for J class as these days I prefer to stretch and try to sleep (yeah) on long distance flights. I was travelling via HKG to LHR starting and finishing at POM, transferring HKG each way. (yeah I'm based in POM and I signed my contract, I needed a job, and it's my fault) HKG-LHR flight was fine, but service not what I come to expect from BA, business class seat/bed not as comfortable or as spacious as I would have liked. I was asked at the transfer desk in HKG if I'd like to upgrade to first for I think HKD 8,000. Took me 20 seconds to decide no. I'd already paid once for an upgrade. Return journey was worse from the start. At check in I was informed that I'd have to pass through immigration and customs in HKG, recover my bags and check in again for my flight to POM. Why I asked. We don't do transfers of baggage anymore. News to me! Fobbed off with an excuse that it was policy of the airline. You accepted my bags on the outward journey I told them. Nothing to do with us I was told. I was pretty peed off I can tell you. The flight not as good as inward, Staff quite abrupt. There was a time when you were called by your name on BA. HKG arrival on time but the added hassle of immigration, baggage, customs, finding my way through a strange (for me) airport. Finding the check in desk, and checking in again was extra stress I didn't want after a very long days journey to Heathrow in the first place.
OK when it came to the survey. I roasted BA. Basically told them what I have said here bit in more detail. Satisfaction rating 1 out of 10. Any reaction? You're correct. ZILCH. Told them I have options when I want to fly. BA has struck themselves off my list.
I'm planning another journey from POM to the UK in June/July. I'll never give beardy Branson any of my cash, so if I go HKG then I'll use Cathay. If I go SIN then Singapore Airlines will get my cash. Unfortunately the Japs don't fly from Narita to LHR so that rules out that route.
I hear so much bad about BA these days. It's sad as I have so many happy memories. BA are charging extras, Business class seat choices; pay for food and drink and pre-order on some routes; Squeezing the seats; refusing to transfer baggage. Not reacting to poor surveys from disgruntled PAX. Piss poor attitudes from a supplier lead to piss poor attitudes from those how pay for your piss poor service.

[ExXB]

I don't think any company replies/responds to surveys. They people do the survey just amalgamate all the data and then tell the mucky mucks what they want to hear. If you are not happy then find another way (good luck) of conveying your thoughts.

[The Member]

Will NEVER fly BA again after the way I was treated in having to cancel my flights due having to have an urgent operation which precluded me from flying for 6 weeks.They gave me the taxes back but not Avios points ( I used them to upgrade) nor the cost of booking seats.I eventually ,after a faceless communication via e mail ( no reply allowed) got a refund on the seat allocation. All I wanted was a "credit" against future flights rather than hard cash but no joy. This happened 18 months ago and to date they have lost £8760 of revenue from me.

[ZFT]

I don't think any company replies/responds to surveys. They people do the survey just amalgamate all the data and then tell the mucky mucks what they want to hear. If you are not happy then find another way (good luck) of conveying your thoughts.

TG do. Got a response from their Customer Services Director just a few weeks ago after being handed a survey form on board.

[tdracer]

Many companies fail to realize that surveys are only step one - it's what you do with the survey that matters.
Many years ago, I had a lousy supervisory at Boeing - fantastic engineer but was promoted to supervision (basically Peter Principle in action). At the time Boeing had started doing "360" reviews - basically not only did the person you reported to review your performance, you got to review his/hers performance. Almost to a person, we slammed our supervisor in the 360 review (at least in theory the 360 of your supervisor was supposed to be anonymous).
When the results came out, our supervisor got real quiet for a while, but finally called a group meeting to discuss the results of the 360 survey.
He spent a one hour meeting explaining why none of our criticism were valid. :ugh:

[Ignore the HUD]

Have twice been asked to fill in a survey on flights that went pear shaped. Considering I provided them as requested the very least I expected was an acknowledgment of my effort even if they didn’t agree to my inputs. Nope nothing heard….listening out.
Will not bother doing that again....

[ATNotts]

I don't think any company replies/responds to surveys. They people do the survey just amalgamate all the data and then tell the mucky mucks what they want to hear. If you are not happy then find another way (good luck) of conveying your thoughts.

The "how did we do?" or "how are we doing?" survey strategy is in use in all sectors these days, and I for one have become so fed up with filling out this and the other Surveymonkey questionnaire for everything from transport to spectacles, though car servicing that i have just ceased to fill them in, UNLESS I have been pee'd off with the service I got.

That makes them absolutely useless as business tools, and are useful only as a means of ticking a box in their quality assurance system / policy.

[ExXB]

I lie, but they keep on sending them. Rarely are they actually trying to find out what you think, but just to produce data that will justify executive bonuses, or further cost-cutting measures.

[PAXboy]

Correct ExXB! One of the things that gives the game away is that they don't like anything other than 'tick boxes'. That is because tick boxes can be scored by a computer - if they allow you to put in plain text - that has to be read by a human and costs [gasp] money. There are all a waste of time, not just for airlines but any company that asks them.

[Private jet]

I remember the internal staff surveys when I was there. They ignored the results of those too, didn't tell them what they wanted to hear.

[old,not bold]

I was prepared to give BA a cautious thumbs up after a reasonably OK trip to the UAE last week, apart from the fuss and bother that changing the day of the outward flight due to a last-minute problem, to say nothing of expense; it took a total of 2 hours in phone calls to do something that in the 1970's I would have done for a BA customer in 5 minutes, using my supervisor login to their system.

However, I withdraw any hint of praise; they still haven't learned anything.

We're off, in a day or two, for a week in Europe, on BA again. I paid for something they call, during the reservation process, Economy Plus, mainly to get the hold baggage allowance and the other minor benefits offered, including early check in. This turned into "Eurotraveller" at some point in the process, after they had the money.

The system would not allow me to check in 48 hours in advance, and 23 hours 56 minutes before departure there were only seats at the back of the cabin available. That's life, it's only a 2-hour flight, we'll live.

My real beef is that when I called to ask exactly what I had booked, and why the system would not let me check in 48 hours before, after navigating about 4 (5?) levels in their ridiculous menu tree I got a recording saying in effect "We're all frightfully busy, go away and try calling again later." Click.

This might be the way the Spanish/Irish do things, it might be quite acceptable in Spain and/or Ireland to tell your customers to p**s off because you are too busy to talk to them, come back mañana.

But for so long as this crap, foreign-owned airline has "British" in its title IT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

[wowzz]

I was prepared to give BA a cautious thumbs up after a reasonably OK trip to the UAE last week, apart from the fuss and bother that changing the day of the outward flight due to a last-minute problem, to say nothing of expense; it took a total of 2 hours in phone calls to do something that in the 1970's I would have done for a BA customer in 5 minutes, using my supervisor login to their system.

However, I withdraw any hint of praise; they still haven't learned anything.

We're off, in a day or two, for a week in Europe, on BA again. I paid for something they call, during the reservation process, Economy Plus, mainly to get the hold baggage allowance and the other minor benefits offered, including early check in. This turned into "Eurotraveller" at some point in the process, after they had the money.

The system would not allow me to check in 48 hours in advance, and 23 hours 56 minutes before departure there were only seats at the back of the cabin available. That's life, it's only a 2-hour flight, we'll live.

My real beef is that when I called to ask exactly what I had booked, and why the system would not let me check in 48 hours before, after navigating about 4 (5?) levels in their ridiculous menu tree I got a recording saying in effect "We're all frightfully busy, go away and try calling again later." Click.

This might be the way the Spanish/Irish do things, it might be quite acceptable in Spain and/or Ireland to tell your customers to p**s off because you are too busy to talk to them, come back mañana.

But for so long as this crap, foreign-owned airline has "British" in its title IT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

Economy Plus, as I understand it, is a standard Eurotraveller ticket, with 23kg luggage allowance, and online check in 24 hours in advance.. On certain routes BA sell economy tickets but with no hold luggage allowance. I have never heard of BA allowing check in 48 hours in advance, but I wait to be corrected.

[old,not bold]

Not a long wait....unless there's a subtle difference between "check-in" and "seat choice"; if there is I'm wrong, but I don't believe that you should need a law degree to interpret the (deliberate?) ambiguities of a website purchase process.
https://i.imgur.com/z8CPv0K.png

By the way, I would like to meet the management cretin who thinks that "availability of food and drink to buy", as opposed to "free refreshments will be offered during the flight", or "there will be no food and drink on board, free or for purchase", is a huge and sought-after benefit, even if it is M&S. (And even that shows a peculiar mind-set; what's so wonderful about M&S, as opposed to, say, Sainsbury's, or Fortnum & Mason's, or even Tesco's? M&S is good for underwear if you don't care what it looks like and are in a hurry, but no better than anyone else in other departments. Why would a non-Brit be encouraged to fly BA just because customers are given the opportunity to pay a lot for M&S food on board? Or a Brit, for that matter?)

[wowzz]

Not a long wait....unless there's a subtle difference between "check-in" and "seat choice"; if there is I'm wrong, but I don't believe that you should need a law degree to interpret the (deliberate?) ambiguities of a website purchase process.
https://i.imgur.com/z8CPv0K.png

By the way, I would like to meet the management cretin who thinks that "availability of food and drink to buy", as opposed to "free refreshments will be offered during the flight", or "there will be no food and drink on board, free or for purchase", is a huge and sought-after benefit, even if it is M&S. (And even that shows a peculiar mind-set; what's so wonderful about M&S, as opposed to, say, Sainsbury's, or Fortnum & Mason's, or even Tesco's? M&S is good for underwear if you don't care what it looks like and are in a hurry, but no better than anyone else in other departments. Why would a non-Brit be encouraged to fly BA just because customers are given the opportunity to pay a lot for M&S food on board? Or a Brit, for that matter?)

Thanks for coming back so quickly to show my error!
I am now officially confused. Our next flight on BA is in Eurotraveller, with 23 kg hold luggage allowance, but I cannot check in until 24 hours in advance. Not sure why a 48 hour option is given in your case, unless possibly you are travelling with children? Any ideas would be welcome.
By the way, I totally agree that only a master of spin could think that advertising the purchase of food and drink is worth highlighting.

[Skyflier]

Is seat choice available on the seat map 48 hours in advance of departure even though you can't check in until T-24? It can be accessed through manage my booking.

Exec club status members can choose a seat at different times - gold and silver at any time from the point of booking and bronze from seven days before travel. I think this is a roll out of that to people paying standard economy fares rather than HBO.

[old,not bold]

I couldn't find a way to reserve seats without checking in. I'm not saying there isn't one, but even if there is, it's another case of some over-complicated promo notion, possibly dreamed up by a twenty-something who has no life experience, and therefore can't predict how things will play out in real life.

[DaveReidUK]

I couldn't find a way to reserve seats without checking in

You can typically pay to reserve seats some time in advance of your departure date, or wait until 24 hours before departure and be allocated seats for free (usually with the option to change your allocated seat, but which may again involve a payment).

[wowzz]

You can typically pay to reserve seats some time in advance of your departure date, or wait until 24 hours before departure and be allocated seats for free (usually with the option to change your allocated seat, but which may again involve a payment).

So how did oldnotbold get the opportunity to reserve his seat for free 48 hours in advance, as compared to the normal 24 hours?

[old,not bold]

So how did oldnotbold get the opportunity to reserve his seat for free 48 hours in advance,

The point is that the promise to allow free seat selection 48 hours in advance was not fulfilled; when I tried to check-in 48 hours before the flight the system would not allow that. So I couldn't reserve the seats.

Maybe I missed something, but if I did it was not clearly shown. I've had a workstation/desktop on my desk every day of my life since it was a BA workstation in 1973 (my then employer piggy-backed on their system, back in the '70s), and although I'm getting old and decrepit I'm not yet a dribbling idiot, as far as I can judge.

Someone will now show that it is completely obvious how to reserve seats 48 hours in advance if you buy Economy Plus, and when that happens I'll dribble a bit and shut up.

[XL189]

I wonder how the new "High Density" economy class seating will go down with passengers.
Narrow seats & narrow aisle does not make for a good experience!

[alserire]

This might be the way the Spanish/Irish do things, it might be quite acceptable in Spain and/or Ireland to tell your customers to p**s off because you are too busy to talk to them, come back mañana.



Wow.

This kind of casual ethnic stereotyping is exactly why ye won't be missed when you Brexit.

Enjoy the passport queues when you get to Spain ;)

[Buswinker]

The point is that the promise to allow free seat selection 48 hours in advance was not fulfilled; when I tried to check-in 48 hours before the flight the system would not allow that. So I couldn't reserve the seats.

Maybe I missed something, but if I did it was not clearly shown. I've had a workstation/desktop on my desk every day of my life since it was a BA workstation in 1973 (my then employer piggy-backed on their system, back in the '70s), and although I'm getting old and decrepit I'm not yet a dribbling idiot, as far as I can judge.

Someone will now show that it is completely obvious how to reserve seats 48 hours in advance if you buy Economy Plus, and when that happens I'll dribble a bit and shut up.

If it’s the way it used to work for ba bronze et al to make a seat selection before check in was open, it’s accessible only through manage my booking, not the check in link itself. Buried down the manage my booking page there should be a choose seat option- before your window for free seat selection opens this attracts a fee, but at the requisite time the exact same link will do it for free

Disclaimer- this is how it was in 2015 last time I had to do it- it may have changed since. After a horrific BA premium economy sin-Syd I promised I wouldn’t fly with them again!!

[wowzz]

If it’s the way it used to work for ba bronze et al to make a seat selection before check in was open, it’s accessible only through manage my booking, not the check in link itself. Buried down the manage my booking page there should be a choose seat option- before your window for free seat selection opens this attracts a fee, but at the requisite time the exact same link will do it for free

Disclaimer- this is how it was in 2015 last time I had to do it- it may have changed since. After a horrific BA premium economy sin-Syd I promised I wouldn’t fly with them again!!

I think you are correct in that bronze members can select seats earlier, but BA do not make this immediately obvious.
It seems to me that BA are so confused as to their position in the flight market (loco with a premium cabin or full service airline with cheap seats at the back) that they have no idea what to do with their Executive Club members.

[ExXB]

they have no idea what to do with their Executive Club members.

... other than piss them off, which they can be very good at.

(Disclaimer: I haven’t flown them on a revenue ticket since 2008. They could have improved, but I’m not anxious to find out.)

[Buswinker]

... other than piss them off, which they can be very good at.

(Disclaimer: I haven’t flown them on a revenue ticket since 2008. They could have improved, but I’m not anxious to find out.)

I was silver when I ceased flying with them- you would have thought they’d accidentally staffed the plane with work experience types the way they spoke to the customers on my last flight

They probably don’t notice $15-30k a year of lost revenue though!