Cold War Redux: Playing Chicken

[Lonewolf_50]

It appears that there was a close intercept over the Black Sea.
Russian interceptor playing chicken with a P-8. (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-jet-flies-within-5-feet-of-us-navy-plane-pentagon-says/ar-BBIpBeq?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp)
A Russian Su-30 fighter jet made an "unsafe" intercept of a US P-8A Poseidon aircraft in November while it was flying over the Black Sea. The Russian jet's actions were deemed unsafe because the aircraft crossed in front of the US plane from right to left while engaging its afterburners, forcing the P-8 to enter its jet wash, an action that caused the US plane to experience "a 15-degree roll and violent turbulence," according to Lt. Col. Michelle Baldanza, a spokeswoman for the Pentagon If the interceptor was not a ship based aircraft, my fuzzy memory recalls that INCSEA agreements would not apply ... though by any standard of airmanship and judgment, I'd suggest that getting that close is careless at best. It's maybe funny when Maverick does it in a movie (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=top+gun+movie+clip+inverted&view=detail&mid=8D4C2D946F4B654106768D4C2D946F4B65410676&FORM=VIRE), in real life it's unprofessional.
The Russian jet's action forced the US Navy aircraft to end its mission prematurely, one of the officials said. Then I guess you let the bully win this one, guys. Not sure why a near miss means "I have to go home" but there may have been some standing orders from the Fleet commander on stuff like this. Hard to tell form what's available in the press.

[gums]

Actually, the worst effect on the big plane or a U-2 at 80,000 is zooming up in front and the victim has to fly thru the jet wash and vortices.

I don't know what these guys are trying to do, but if they keep getting closer something bad is gonna happen.

Gums...

[Airbubba]

If the interceptor was not a ship based aircraft, my fuzzy memory recalls that INCSEA agreements would not apply ... though by any standard of airmanship and judgment, I'd suggest that getting that close is careless at best.

I don't believe there is an exclusion for land based aircraft in the INCSEA (aka Chicken-of-the-Sea :)) agreement.

From Article One of the Agreement:

"Aircraft" means all military manned heavier-than-air and lighter-than-air craft, excluding space craft.

From Article Four:

Commanders of aircraft of the Parties shall use the greatest caution and prudence in approaching aircraft and ships of the other Party operating on and over the high seas, in particular, ships engaged in launching or landing aircraft, and in the interest of mutual safety shall not permit: simulated attacks by the simulated use of weapons against aircraft and ships, or performance of various aerobatics over ships, or dropping various objects near them in such a manner as to be hazardous to ships or to constitute a hazard to navigation.

https://www.state.gov/t/isn/4791.htm

Actual details of how close and how many passes were allowed were published in classified ops bulletins in years past.

Some of the P-3/P-8 spook stuff operates under PARPRO (Peacetime Aerial Reconnaissance Program is one decoding) mission rules. And you have murky Navy outfits in the business like the famous BuPers Sea Duty Component Dallas and the 'Projects'.

The Air Force traditionally orbits overhead in an RC-135 variant at a safe altitude to get a splash point for the Navy plane if something happens. ;)

[gums]

Salute Bubba and others....

Something is really different now. In my day it was normal to intercept a Bear, or for the Sovs to join on a EC-135 someplace near Japan. Hell, we even flashed their gunners the latest Playboy centerfold, heh heh.

Gotta admit, I don't like this stuff.

Gums sends...

[Airbubba]

Something is really different now. In my day it was normal to intercept a Bear, or for the Sovs to join on a EC-135 someplace near Japan. Hell, we even flashed their gunners the latest Playboy centerfold, heh heh.

Back in the late 1970's a P-3 from VP-9 ditched off Adak in the frigid Bering Sea up by Alaska. It was at the height of the Cold War but the Soviets used everything they had to help locate and rescue the survivors. And, true to form, an Air Force RC-135 orbiting overhead under the command of Cliff Carter helped locate the splash point. :ok:

At Christmastime with approval from CINCLANT an alert crew would go to the exchange and buy Playboy's, candy and cigarettes. They would load them into a plastic sonobuoy container and go find a Soviet surface unit off the Atlantic coast to drop the gifts to. As I recall, this was called an Orphan Annie buoy. At some point concern was raised that this was in technical violation of the INCSEA agreement cited above and the practice was discontinued.

The RC-135 may still be covering the Black Sea ops but lately I see an RQ-4A Global Hawk out of Sigonella orbiting above FL500 in the area.

Here's an article in Russian that seems to have confusion between the text and pictures over whether the U.S. plane was an EP-3E or a P-8A:

https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20180129/1513562289.html

[Tiger G]

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b4f_1517346084

[Airbubba]

Some more video of the incident here:

Additional Video Released of U.S. Navy EP-3 Intercepted in the Black Sea | U.S. Naval Forces Europe-Africa / U.S. 6th Fleet (http://www.c6f.navy.mil/news/additional-video-released-us-navy-ep-3-intercepted-black-sea#.WnHuqZF-EKc.twitter)

[TEEEJ]

Looks like the US Navy EP-3 is carrying the new camera pod to record these type of incidents.

https://twitter.com/YasminTadjdeh/status/732252267932450817/photo/1

Navy Releases Video Of Russian Flanker Buzzing EP-3E Aries II Spy Plane - The Drive (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18090/navy-releases-video-of-russian-flanker-buzzing-ep-3e-aries-ii-spy-plane)

The Navy Is Getting A Video Pod To Record Russian And Chinese Jets Making Unsafe Intercepts - The Drive (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3608/the-navy-is-getting-a-video-pod-to-record-russian-and-chinese-jets-making-unsafe-intercepts)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHB9vJqWTMQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEIEjZ9SI70

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OACGT-GYGo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS6AHEpMmws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uWXXVfJ9UE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC_joSQzYcs

[Lonewolf_50]

TEEJ, thanks for the video clips.
It appears that the initial reports contained a number of errors, to include the type of aircraft involved. Oh well, that's never happened before. :rolleyes:

Airbubba: thanks for the review on INCSEA. It's been a lot of years since I had to be "on" regarding that agreement as part of my day job. Memory obviously not what it once was.

[Airbubba]

Here's the Russian reply to the latest U.S. flyby protest:

Halt spy plane flights near our borders or agree on rules – Russia to US

Published time: 1 Feb, 2018 11:56
Edited time: 1 Feb, 2018 12:50

The US should either stop flying military planes near Russian borders or agree on the rules for such flights, the Russian Defense Ministry recommended after the latest complaint about an intercept by a Russian fighter jet.

The rebuke came on Thursday after the US Navy released additional footage, which it said showed an interception of an EP-3 spy plane by a Russian Su-27 fighter jet over the Black Sea. The two sides disagree on whether the Russian pilot acted recklessly during the Monday encounter.

The Russian Air Force “will continue to provide robust defense of the borders of Russian airspace,” the Defense Ministry said in a statement. “If the realization of this fact by American pilots causes depression and phobias, we recommend that the American side either exclude flying near Russian borders in the future or return to the negotiations table and agree on a set of rules for such flights.”

The Pentagon has been accusing Russia of flying too close to American warplanes and warships on patrol missions near Russian borders. US defense officials call such actions risky and unprofessional. Their Russian counterparts disagree and say the Russian pilots do not violate any rules when buzzing American military assets deployed far from their homeland.

The Russian Defense Military commented on the latest incident in the same manner. “The maneuvers of the Russian fighter jet on January 29 were standard, absolutely legal and perfectly safe for the American surveillance plane,” it said. “When NATO fighter jets conduct similar maneuvers towards Russian military planes on patrol over the Baltic, the Barents, the Norwegian, the North or any other sea, they do not affect the Russian crews in the slightest way.”

https://www.rt.com/news/417595-russia-us-planes-borders/