How much are you in the red?

[gorky]

how deep in debt are you?
How much money did you pay for your training?
lets talk money guys!!!?show me how deep the rabbits holes go?

[foghorn]

No debts, other than the mortgage on my house.

The UK's crazy property market helped me there. I guess I'm lucky. Being a bit older (29) allowed me to get savings and a house under my belt before I started training.

cheers!
foggy.

[touch&go]

Down to my last million,

[Baldie Man]

<Sniff sniff> I smell a Ronchonner!!!!

[Gin Slinger]

Gorkchonner, the reason flight training is kept so expensive is that we really couldn't be doing with the working classes operating fine aeronautical machinery.

For reasons of political expediency, British Airways do have a sponsored cadetship scheme, to give a pretence that Britain is an egalitarian society.

I am not as wealthy as T&G, but I still have ample funds to complete my training.

[Non Iron Chippy]

This could end up to be a very funny post!!!!

So i'll come clean at £20k to the bank and £10k to my family.

Anyone going up the ante?!!!

[George Semel]

Back when I did my training, both airplanes and helicopters, the price of Coyote pelts were going from 25 to 55 bucks each. So I shot Coyote's in Montana for three winters. Finnished my training in a year or so and use the last winters pelts for a nest egg. That was back in 74. I started out with no debt and some 28 years later, I am still debt free. There are ways to get to where you what to be with out racking up a mountian load of debt. Over the years I worked as many as four jobs to keep things covered. In Aviation you need to be flexable and live a life style that is below your means. Things are tough now, not as tough as it was in the late 70's but its slow. So If i can get buy on 1200 a month thats what I do, and bank the rest. Also for you guys that are new flight instructors, pick a low rent area to work in, you may built your time a little slower but you will be able to better to keep your living expenses and bills in a some what check matter. And for god's sake dump the credit cards. It can be done, it just takes some work and effort.

[Hap Hazard]

George, its always nice to hear about folks like you, as so many these days think its all about running to the nearest bank manager with a brilliant buisiness plan.....himself.
Amassing money has never been easy, but with determination and hard work it can be done for a hell of a lot less than being upto your eyeballs in debt.
If I were to employ people in this industry, then personally I would go for those who have raised cash by showing determination and commitment through a bit of lateral thinking and hard work, anybody can go out and raise money through loans and frankly I dont feel that much sorry for those who make the decision at taking on almost impossible amounts of debt on the pretence that they will find themselves in the RHS of a jet the next month after completing their training.
It would be nice if it were like that, but you are all entering the reality of the aviation world...theres many in it who will take all they can from you and the other half that's worth working for are hard to open that door.
Those who are contemplating a career change in their lives, think hard how quickly you think you are going to find yourself in employment and quite frankly in the current market I would advocate using this industry downtime to get lateral thinking to raise the cash, after all once you start training then you can bowl the training over in relative short time.
By the way to answer the original question, my training owed me 30k, and I still had another 10k in my back pocket at the end of my 3 yrs hard work.......its nice to know that I wont be paying some bloody bank thousands in interest over the next 10-15 yrs.
It can be done surprisingly easily with a little thought and hard work, but then hey we are now in a "want it now"society!

[abracadabra]

I used to have a good job with plenty of money to burn on skidding round the sky in a 152 on weekends.

Then I decided to go for the ATPL....

I'm deep in the red, but not as bad as some guys I know. Some of them have put absolutely everything on the line. One or two had done no flying whatsoever prior to signing up for an ATPL course! Crazy stuff. I guess they just knew they'd like it.

I've always been amazed by a lot of people's attitude to money. Small things like not using the phone during peak times and saving 5p by buying own-brand soup are a source for much concern, but those same people will happily put money into fruit machines or, at the other end of the scale, I've seen people buy £50,000-worth of a tech stock because their doctor told them it was sure to go up..

I started down this rabbit hole just before September 2001, and at the time it seemed like a fairly safe calculated risk. Sooner or later it would pay off. Now it seems it will be rather later...

-abracadabra

[Gin Slinger]

Echo abracadabra strongly.

It's amazing the lack of gumption shown by some here.

A number of guys I know started off on an ATPL course not having flown before - I believe at least one of them has decided that they made a mistake.

Everyone who's serious about going 'pro' should get a PPL first - therefore you can find out if you are a complete dufus without pissed £50k up the wall.

I did and so far, touch wood, still don't regret it despite 9-11 making the road to a job much longer.

Listen to everyone but be very careful in trusting anyone!

[ri5]

try 82000 euro for course in jerez thats what my mate paid

[worzel]

I'm heavily in debt but it will all be paid off in a few years.

The biggest problem for me is that I feel like a 'tight git' all of the time. I shop for special offers, sales, best value goods and do all the stuff like ring people after 6 o'clock. Quite frankly I'm becoming obsessed but whats even more worrying I'm starting to enjoy being obsessed!

Oh. I also sell my body.

[FRIDAY]

I have been the same,
Tight bastard for years now, I used to lift drink on me mates in the pub. I know-I know thats low but between limiting my socialising to practically nothing and saving very hard, I have amounted close to 80000euro and it feels good.
Not in the red and hopefully wont be, I will not owe anyone anything after training, my mates, family, or bank have been avoided and I am now assured I chose right to.

[Low-Pass]

Might owe your mates a few beers though. ;)

[Flying Clog]

23 years old, £45,000 pounds in the red.

Started flying 4 years ago and now have 3000 hours though. Hoping for a regional jet command in 6 months, so I'm not too worried about paying it off.

Still, a lot of money...

[pinkpilot]

Thank God I am not alone I was really starting to worry about this whole calculating everything in terms of hours in an aircraft. My mates are starting get sick of me saying I can't afford to do anything, anyone know any available millionaires?? I reckon total cost will be in the region of 75 grand and then no guarantee of a job, are we mad???

[Nishko]

£40,000 in the red, and still no IR.....I'm getting a taste for Pasta with salt & pepper on it though.

[Gassbag]

Two Shillings and Sixpence!
Well a few bob to my family £16k
And am nearing loan terratory, where I have twisted upto £30k from HSBC. Don't want to spend it all. Just have to keep the missus away from it!!
Spoke to a girl who was visiting my school and her 'worst case scenario' budgeted for £60k.

[Field In Sight]

Exams nearly done and another 25,000 of flying to go.

By then I should have eaten back 10,000 off a paid off mortgage.
Although the house is worth a 35,000 more than the mortgage so it aint all bad.

Although I've never driven anything more desireable than a Ford Fiesta, although that did have power steering.

I must take my hat off to those people who go the whole hog using a loan after never flying before. Very astute/brave/reckless/silly/deluded/absolutely mental :eek:

[Joe Bolt]

I gained my FATPL without needing to borrow a penny.
I saved the money for it by sweating my b@lls off for five years, fixing jet fighter aircraft for our Arab friends in a very hot Middle Eastern country. I too think that employers should give greater credit to those of us who got the money together 'the hard way', by working for it.

Of course the downside to this route, is that you are often a good few years older than those who have borrowed money, by the time you start training.

[worzel]

Joe Bolt

We've all got our money the hard way. Whether you worked your nuts off saving it, or borrowed it and are working your nuts off paying it back.

I agree that the airlines should give us credit for this, we are obviously very determined and enthusiastic people (or perhaps stupid). I think its a real shame that it seems to be the other way. If Daddy gave you the cash for a Cap 509/integrated course, or someone sponsored you through, your CV will go strait to the top of the pile.

It sucks.

worzel

[Goldfinger]

fATPL, cost approx 55k. That takes into consideration the NVQ benefit about a year ago. Some of that has been from family, some an HSBC Professional Studies Loan (30k), approx 5k worth has been paid by RAF flying scholarship and the Air League. Having to renew ratings and do an MCC course later this year and that will probably set me back approx £6500.

For those of you busting a gut to find money for ratings, cannot recommend the Air League enough. A few hours paid for here or there towards specific ratings is extremely useful at the moment. They have a website. Also believe GAPAN have a few sponsorships too.

My new alternative career is bank-robbing and wondered if anyone wanted to join my gang.....pensions are being provided by HRH QE and they also have creche facilities too.

:cool:

[Tosh McCaber]

Goldfinger,

Can you give us some more info ref the Air League, please?

[TheFlyingDJ]

Yet to start the FTO, but the course is 85000€ and i need support fees say 12000€ for 15 months (rent, food etc.)
Further i need to put in the loan percentage say 10000€. Comes together at 107000€. Might throw in a type rating at the end for 6000€. say 113000€.
Will look at about 70000 pounds of debt init?